So I'm curious what guidance to older TSR/Wotc or present 3rd party sources regarding the following chromatic dragons that fill out the ROYGBIV color spectrum:
Purple (I'm aware some editions including maybe 5e have sort of retconned the purple dragon as deep dragons, but open to other interpretations)
Indigo (if that's a thing)
Orange
Yellow (especially an interpretation of yellow that plays with and ideally blends fear and craven/cowardice.
I'm pretty sure this has been done, but in one of my games, we're presuming Tiamat wasn't always Tiamant but a more coherent representation of the "light" and was fractured into her present sometimes conflicted form (using representation of the Quintessons in a recent Transformers cartoon for personality). The black and white dragons were grafted into her form by other powers, and the Purple, Orange and yellow were "loosed" (Purple is actually waiting for the moment to usurp Tiamat, Orange I'm not sure about, Yellow may be the most vicious but is also in hiding) ... and yeah, the ultimate arc may involve "reforming" Tiamat to her prior being, which would definitely be a universe upsetting event.
I know some old dragon issues put forth these "off colors" arguing they somehow involved a sister of Tiamat, that sort of lore is fine too, I'm just looking for ideas to mine.
Anyway, starting this thread in lore seeking what information some of you long time dragon runners and draconomicon readers may have on off color dragons. Just trying to build a bibliography/collect perspectives to flesh out a loose idea I presented via NPC/patron to the party after drinking too much Mountain Dew but based on feedback I'm apparently now committed to running.
Yeah, but I also like "sources and references". And what I'm calling "off color dragons" Yellow, Orange, various iterations of Purple, have popped up in AD&D in Dragon magazine and even editions' Draconomicons and what not. Basically "I know what I'm doing" but I also know sometimes other folks have better ideas. Knowing that, I've compiled a _huge_ bibliography I'll be putting to this thread eventually. What I"m hoping is that some "old timers" may be "yeah, you want to ignore 3.5 and 4e's interpretations ... but you definitely want to read that Dragon Magazine article from 1987". And also use this space to brainstorm.
Basically, if the campaign ever gets there, Tiamat will have to be confronted by her "lost colors" or "facets" if you want to have the gem dragons get in on this action somehow. I'm not sure if that means dragon slaying or wrangling. But once Tiamat goes through the reparative process, the universe will change along lines similar to the murder/tragedy/death of Sardior n the recent Fizban's book.
The Tiamat we know is a casualty of a draconic essence too unbridled, or at least deemed so by parties including Bahamut... I'm thinking the infnite staircase through the planes may. actual be the vestige of her former being's spine. Tiamat basically tore herself apart, losing what became the yellow, orange and purple dragons, and the white and black dragon heads were grafted on by other parties, at least one Abyssal, the other I'm not sure but may be leaning a sort of elemental/far realm mash up.
But at this point the party's only level 4, so they're basically raiding ancient libraries for possible evidence and clues and interviewing other dragons and possible "witnesses" on behalf of a Patron, and fighting occasional draconians and abishai (in the campaign, Tiamat's liberated, and not just Hell but the whole multiverse is a mess ... party was offered an opportunity to either "save their world" or "abandon their world and change the nature of reality" and to my surprise they went with the latter ... because they really really like an NPC I pulled from Descent into Avernus and really fleshed out into a multiplanar spymaster, and occasional heist broker for fun).
Purple dragons are sometimes swapped in and out with deep dragons, and duplicity seems their main game in the write up I like, so I'm pretty sure the Orginal or Prime Purple Wyrm, so to speak, is going to be in league with Fraz Ur'luu, because he's my favorite demon lord and I always pull him into my stuff. Yellow I want to associate with the evil born out of. cowardice and fear, and thought it might be fun to have it dominating a demi plane populated by tyranical chickenhawk Leonin (to play off the cowardly lion) who've subjugated the Tabaxi population (possibly. allowing the characters to have a run in with the Cat Lord deities). Orange, I'm not sure, I'm thinking maybe Berzerker Red Dragon temperments. Maybe they make their lairs of out of driving cones?
For my homebrew world, I have a total of 12 chromatic dragons. Besides the main five, I also have...
Brown Dragons - I use the 4e lore for these dragons, making them desert dwellers that often act as kings and leaders to the scattered mortal civilizations that live among the sand.
Gray Dragons - Another dragon that I utilize the 4e lore for, these dragons are lovers of battle and contests of strength and often prefer to fight with tooth, claw and tail blades then with breath weapon or magic like other Chromatic Dragons.
Purple Dragons - Powerful serpentine-shaped dragons that dwell in the Underdark and hunt the various evil aberrations that inhabit these dark caverns.
Orange Dragons - Tropical dragons that have a large crocodilian head, they love to drift in jungle wetlands and hunt powerful prey.
Yellow Dragons - Commonly called Sun Wyrms, these radiant dragons enjoy flying and are masters of aerial combat.
Pink Dragons - Dragons of beauty that feed off of the life energy of others around them. The more vibrant the life around them is, the more beautiful they are.
Indigo Dragons - Deep sea dragons that spend much of their time hunting all manner of marine life, and love to come aboard ships of sailors and pirates alike to revel in song and drinks.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
I am a little late in saying "think about blends of colors." So an Orange dragon could be a blend of yellow and red. A Gray dragon could be a blend of black and white. A Rose dragon could be a blend of white and red. A purple dragon could be a blend of blue and red. And so on.
In my homebrew world I tell the players that what they think they know about monsters isn't necessarily so. It was likely derived from the frantic ravings of a commoner that escaped from a close encounter and their knowledge might be clouded by the experience. Or, as in the case of Orcs, they might not know there are races of Orcs just like there are races of Elves.
So coming up with new, unknown dragons, sounds like a great thing to me.
Concerning the Yellow Dragon, I considered your thought that he might be cowardly. Well, consider that he is smaller than a "typical" dragon and therefore has a much less imposing physical presence, for a dragon that is. So maybe he is easily cowed by other dragons. How does he compensate? Maybe he is very charismatic in an evil self-serving way and gets other dragons to take sides. Maybe his magical abilities support this? But, he is also very cautious. He can fly, but he is more likely to slink about. Maybe he has a chameleon like quality that allows him to blend in, but this takes effort so his "base color" would still be yellow. He has a preferred terrain that isn't a mountainous cavern; maybe a desert cave? Maybe he perches on Mesas to peer around? Maybe, because he is cautious, he keeps a crystal ball, which he peers into for hours a day checking the approaches to his hideout, like his own private drone patrolling the area. Or he has a flock of condors that he can view the country from their perspective like familiars. There are loads of things you can do by making a few new dragons. And the ones you make might be nearly extinct, which is why nobody knows about them.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
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So I'm curious what guidance to older TSR/Wotc or present 3rd party sources regarding the following chromatic dragons that fill out the ROYGBIV color spectrum:
Purple (I'm aware some editions including maybe 5e have sort of retconned the purple dragon as deep dragons, but open to other interpretations)
Indigo (if that's a thing)
Orange
Yellow (especially an interpretation of yellow that plays with and ideally blends fear and craven/cowardice.
I'm pretty sure this has been done, but in one of my games, we're presuming Tiamat wasn't always Tiamant but a more coherent representation of the "light" and was fractured into her present sometimes conflicted form (using representation of the Quintessons in a recent Transformers cartoon for personality). The black and white dragons were grafted into her form by other powers, and the Purple, Orange and yellow were "loosed" (Purple is actually waiting for the moment to usurp Tiamat, Orange I'm not sure about, Yellow may be the most vicious but is also in hiding) ... and yeah, the ultimate arc may involve "reforming" Tiamat to her prior being, which would definitely be a universe upsetting event.
I know some old dragon issues put forth these "off colors" arguing they somehow involved a sister of Tiamat, that sort of lore is fine too, I'm just looking for ideas to mine.
Anyway, starting this thread in lore seeking what information some of you long time dragon runners and draconomicon readers may have on off color dragons. Just trying to build a bibliography/collect perspectives to flesh out a loose idea I presented via NPC/patron to the party after drinking too much Mountain Dew but based on feedback I'm apparently now committed to running.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
The only thing that's stopping you is you.
As an artist, I think color is important and it sounds like you agree.
Yeah, but I also like "sources and references". And what I'm calling "off color dragons" Yellow, Orange, various iterations of Purple, have popped up in AD&D in Dragon magazine and even editions' Draconomicons and what not. Basically "I know what I'm doing" but I also know sometimes other folks have better ideas. Knowing that, I've compiled a _huge_ bibliography I'll be putting to this thread eventually. What I"m hoping is that some "old timers" may be "yeah, you want to ignore 3.5 and 4e's interpretations ... but you definitely want to read that Dragon Magazine article from 1987". And also use this space to brainstorm.
Basically, if the campaign ever gets there, Tiamat will have to be confronted by her "lost colors" or "facets" if you want to have the gem dragons get in on this action somehow. I'm not sure if that means dragon slaying or wrangling. But once Tiamat goes through the reparative process, the universe will change along lines similar to the murder/tragedy/death of Sardior n the recent Fizban's book.
The Tiamat we know is a casualty of a draconic essence too unbridled, or at least deemed so by parties including Bahamut... I'm thinking the infnite staircase through the planes may. actual be the vestige of her former being's spine. Tiamat basically tore herself apart, losing what became the yellow, orange and purple dragons, and the white and black dragon heads were grafted on by other parties, at least one Abyssal, the other I'm not sure but may be leaning a sort of elemental/far realm mash up.
But at this point the party's only level 4, so they're basically raiding ancient libraries for possible evidence and clues and interviewing other dragons and possible "witnesses" on behalf of a Patron, and fighting occasional draconians and abishai (in the campaign, Tiamat's liberated, and not just Hell but the whole multiverse is a mess ... party was offered an opportunity to either "save their world" or "abandon their world and change the nature of reality" and to my surprise they went with the latter ... because they really really like an NPC I pulled from Descent into Avernus and really fleshed out into a multiplanar spymaster, and occasional heist broker for fun).
Purple dragons are sometimes swapped in and out with deep dragons, and duplicity seems their main game in the write up I like, so I'm pretty sure the Orginal or Prime Purple Wyrm, so to speak, is going to be in league with Fraz Ur'luu, because he's my favorite demon lord and I always pull him into my stuff. Yellow I want to associate with the evil born out of. cowardice and fear, and thought it might be fun to have it dominating a demi plane populated by tyranical chickenhawk Leonin (to play off the cowardly lion) who've subjugated the Tabaxi population (possibly. allowing the characters to have a run in with the Cat Lord deities). Orange, I'm not sure, I'm thinking maybe Berzerker Red Dragon temperments. Maybe they make their lairs of out of driving cones?
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Honestly I can’t think of any you didn’t list. But I vote for skyblue-pink.
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You keep your nonsensical feywild shennanigans outside of my grimdark edgelord worldbreaking!
I mean, sure the redemption or reparation of Tiamat could theoretically be a happy ending, but ONLY after much death ... so much death.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
For my homebrew world, I have a total of 12 chromatic dragons. Besides the main five, I also have...
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
Characters for Tenebris Sine Fine
RoughCoronet's Greater Wills
I am a little late in saying "think about blends of colors." So an Orange dragon could be a blend of yellow and red. A Gray dragon could be a blend of black and white. A Rose dragon could be a blend of white and red. A purple dragon could be a blend of blue and red. And so on.
In my homebrew world I tell the players that what they think they know about monsters isn't necessarily so. It was likely derived from the frantic ravings of a commoner that escaped from a close encounter and their knowledge might be clouded by the experience. Or, as in the case of Orcs, they might not know there are races of Orcs just like there are races of Elves.
So coming up with new, unknown dragons, sounds like a great thing to me.
Concerning the Yellow Dragon, I considered your thought that he might be cowardly. Well, consider that he is smaller than a "typical" dragon and therefore has a much less imposing physical presence, for a dragon that is. So maybe he is easily cowed by other dragons. How does he compensate? Maybe he is very charismatic in an evil self-serving way and gets other dragons to take sides. Maybe his magical abilities support this? But, he is also very cautious. He can fly, but he is more likely to slink about. Maybe he has a chameleon like quality that allows him to blend in, but this takes effort so his "base color" would still be yellow. He has a preferred terrain that isn't a mountainous cavern; maybe a desert cave? Maybe he perches on Mesas to peer around? Maybe, because he is cautious, he keeps a crystal ball, which he peers into for hours a day checking the approaches to his hideout, like his own private drone patrolling the area. Or he has a flock of condors that he can view the country from their perspective like familiars. There are loads of things you can do by making a few new dragons. And the ones you make might be nearly extinct, which is why nobody knows about them.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt