With Jester, The Traveller, and The Moonweaver, Critical Role has really blurred the lines (obliterated them actually) as to who is, for lack of a better turn of phrase, "authorized" to bestow divine magic upon their disciples. So, can a god employ both warlocks and clerics? What about demon lords, arch duke devils, and arch fey? Is there a RAW delineation as to who bestows divine power vs. pact magic? Where would Tiamat, Orcus, and Asmodeus fall on this spectrum as compared to Orcus, Oberron, and the Raven Queen?
Do great old ones have clerics they are able to bestow with divine power?
Pact magic is where the user draws power in some form of way from a being they have ended up in an entanglement with. Pact magic is a little bit of a mix usually of divine power, and arcane power drawn from the patron.
Divine magic is where the being chooses what users get their power and they bestow as much or as little power as they wish.
So how does one translate this in game at your table? Does the deity (DM) choose the spells for the cleric/paladin/druid?
I am really a forever GM and kind of new and have never played as a player. I haven’t had a warlock/paladin/Druid/cleric due to all my players wanting to play their first characters for the second campaign. Personally I’d just use the defaults in the book although I would allow different spell lists if they are flavorful and are balanced for a character.
Having both played and DM'd for Warlocks, Paladins, and Clerics from my understanding and from official material; Divine Magic is when a Cleric draws on the "Weave" of magic through their deity acting as a go between. A Paladin officially gets their power via their Sacred Oath but can also get it from a deity they swore their oath to. And as for Warlocks the best I can give you is that when a Warlock makes their Pact an irrevocable Spark of Magic is given to them by their Patron in exchange for some service rendered or whatever you and your DM decide on. (See Mike Mearls video on youtube about Warlock Patrons, he goes into more offical detail.)
The PHB states on page. 108 under the 'OTHERWORLDLY PATRONS' section, "The beings that serve as patrons for warlocks are mighty inhabitants of other planes of existence-not gods, but almost godlike in their power......"
So no, Warlock patrons can't grant powers to Clerics with the only exception being Asmodeus, he's in a sort of lore limbo depending on the time period, but your DM can change anything he or she wants about the world so it is possible.
The way I run pact magic vs. divine magic is simple; with pact magic there is some form of contract (doesn't have to be written) between the god, demigod, or quasi-god (where the demon lords, krakens, archfey, etc. come in) and the character must follow the contract or lose their powers unless they manage to make a contract with another being; while divine magic comes from devotion to a god, demigod, quasi-god, king, another powerful person, or an ideal.
TLDR; Pact magic is a boss and employee situation where the terms favor the boss, while divine magic is very much a zealot to a "god" situation without the "god" needing to be an actual god or person at all. At least that's how I run it because I find gods not having warlocks and clerics as stupid.
With Jester, The Traveller, and The Moonweaver, Critical Role has really blurred the lines (obliterated them actually) as to who is, for lack of a better turn of phrase, "authorized" to bestow divine magic upon their disciples. So, can a god employ both warlocks and clerics? What about demon lords, arch duke devils, and arch fey? Is there a RAW delineation as to who bestows divine power vs. pact magic? Where would Tiamat, Orcus, and Asmodeus fall on this spectrum as compared to Orcus, Oberron, and the Raven Queen?
Do great old ones have clerics they are able to bestow with divine power?
A god can employ warlocks and clerics, but normally choose clerics over warlocks, as that gives themselves more overall power. Demon Lords cannot give cleric powers, as of the lore, unless they are also deities, as well as their normal warlock granting powers. Archdevils that are deities (Asmodeus) can give cleric powers or warlock ones. Archfey that are also deities can give cleric or warlock powers.
Tiamat is a deity, Orcus is not a deity, Asmodeus is a deity, Oberron is a deity, and the Raven Queen is a deity.
Great old ones are typically not true deities, so they cannot give cleric powers.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
With Jester, The Traveller, and The Moonweaver, Critical Role has really blurred the lines (obliterated them actually) as to who is, for lack of a better turn of phrase, "authorized" to bestow divine magic upon their disciples. So, can a god employ both warlocks and clerics? What about demon lords, arch duke devils, and arch fey? Is there a RAW delineation as to who bestows divine power vs. pact magic? Where would Tiamat, Orcus, and Asmodeus fall on this spectrum as compared to Orcus, Oberron, and the Raven Queen?
Do great old ones have clerics they are able to bestow with divine power?
Pact magic is where the user draws power in some form of way from a being they have ended up in an entanglement with. Pact magic is a little bit of a mix usually of divine power, and arcane power drawn from the patron.
Divine magic is where the being chooses what users get their power and they bestow as much or as little power as they wish.
So how does one translate this in game at your table? Does the deity (DM) choose the spells for the cleric/paladin/druid?
I am really a forever GM and kind of new and have never played as a player. I haven’t had a warlock/paladin/Druid/cleric due to all my players wanting to play their first characters for the second campaign. Personally I’d just use the defaults in the book although I would allow different spell lists if they are flavorful and are balanced for a character.
That helps.
Having both played and DM'd for Warlocks, Paladins, and Clerics from my understanding and from official material; Divine Magic is when a Cleric draws on the "Weave" of magic through their deity acting as a go between. A Paladin officially gets their power via their Sacred Oath but can also get it from a deity they swore their oath to. And as for Warlocks the best I can give you is that when a Warlock makes their Pact an irrevocable Spark of Magic is given to them by their Patron in exchange for some service rendered or whatever you and your DM decide on. (See Mike Mearls video on youtube about Warlock Patrons, he goes into more offical detail.)
The PHB states on page. 108 under the 'OTHERWORLDLY PATRONS' section, "The beings that serve as patrons for warlocks are mighty inhabitants of other planes of existence-not gods, but almost godlike in their power......"
So no, Warlock patrons can't grant powers to Clerics with the only exception being Asmodeus, he's in a sort of lore limbo depending on the time period, but your DM can change anything he or she wants about the world so it is possible.
The way I run pact magic vs. divine magic is simple; with pact magic there is some form of contract (doesn't have to be written) between the god, demigod, or quasi-god (where the demon lords, krakens, archfey, etc. come in) and the character must follow the contract or lose their powers unless they manage to make a contract with another being; while divine magic comes from devotion to a god, demigod, quasi-god, king, another powerful person, or an ideal.
TLDR; Pact magic is a boss and employee situation where the terms favor the boss, while divine magic is very much a zealot to a "god" situation without the "god" needing to be an actual god or person at all. At least that's how I run it because I find gods not having warlocks and clerics as stupid.
call me Anna or Kerns, (she/her), usually a DM, lgbtq+ friendly
A god can employ warlocks and clerics, but normally choose clerics over warlocks, as that gives themselves more overall power. Demon Lords cannot give cleric powers, as of the lore, unless they are also deities, as well as their normal warlock granting powers. Archdevils that are deities (Asmodeus) can give cleric powers or warlock ones. Archfey that are also deities can give cleric or warlock powers.
Tiamat is a deity, Orcus is not a deity, Asmodeus is a deity, Oberron is a deity, and the Raven Queen is a deity.
Great old ones are typically not true deities, so they cannot give cleric powers.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Warlock pact magic is arcane magic, while cleric magic is divine magic. Different mechanics, different spell lists, different flavor.