How acceptable would it be for the Party to enter the valley, and part way across, even with them sensing danger but can't see it yet, a portal pops up within range and Orcs just come spilling through, attacking?
They're on their way to the BBG's lair, which is at the top of the mountain. The are not yet in the valley below, but headed that way. The BBG is attempting to create a New World Order and has armies and allies spread across the entire material plane. This Orc army (which will likely include other creatures, at this point) will be the final challenge before they get to the BBG and his "personal army" (he's not going to be just sitting up there, alone).
Grapple and shove. The paladin only has a ~2/3 chance to succeed on the saving throw. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it possible for more than one orc to grapple the paladin at a time?
1) Wait, I thought your orcs were taking turns running in and out of melee range, not staying to grapple? You should probably pick one strategy and stick to it 2) Oath of the Ancients get misty step byeeeeeeee
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
How acceptable would it be for the Party to enter the valley, and part way across, even with them sensing danger but can't see it yet, a portal pops up within range and Orcs just come spilling through, attacking?
I asked this earlier but it got lost in the shuffle... how exactly does this "danger sense" work? There's got to be some way to neutralize it
As for the portal idea, it's quite acceptable, although if the BBEG is going to those lengths they might want tougher minions than orcs spilling out of it
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
How acceptable would it be for the Party to enter the valley, and part way across, even with them sensing danger but can't see it yet, a portal pops up within range and Orcs just come spilling through, attacking?
That's a super risky strategy, since the Necromancer could cast any persistent AOE spell on top of the portal to instantly incinerate each orc that comes through the portal. You need at least 3 different portals each one ~ 100 ft away from the others surrounding the party. Necromancer will probably still throw up an AoE over one portal but at least then it's only 1/3 of the army that is instantly evaporated.
I think it did get lost. :-) So, this is very much an interesting point. One I have brought up with the group a few times but have yet to get a solid answer on. I think it's time to put some muscle behind it, and I think it comes down to the Blood Hunter. The Player is neurodivergent and has an inclination to print out all possible material on (subject). I've seen the amount of paper he has on his Character. A lot. I have researched the Class and have not found anything that goes beyond 30 feet, and even then it's pertaining to a History check. So, I think I need to tell him to give up the info or he's going to have to be limited by what I've read. The Paladin can get a sense of the lay of the land up to 3 miles (Commune with Nature), and she can sense Fey, Fiend, or Undead within 60 feet, though I wonder how well that would work if more undead where brought into that 60 feet, seeing as how she is traveling with the Necro who has 2 undead of his own....LOL. And I do plan to include additional creatures.....originally I wanted an Orc army to focus on the Dwarf's hatred of them as a means of facilitating some emotion behind the combat scene. I have never expected players to "do voices" nor cinematic RP, but two sessions ago, I had to point out that the PCs have been on this mission for *months* and by now they should be able to converse with one another and strategize together. The Players seem to be inclined to simply tell in 3rd person what they're doing and then roll for it. Kinda frustrating. They've gotten better over time, but I had to really make a point with that.
I think it did get lost. :-) So, this is very much an interesting point. One I have brought up with the group a few times but have yet to get a solid answer on. I think it's time to put some muscle behind it, and I think it comes down to the Blood Hunter.
Err, you're the DM. How can you not have a "solid answer" on what a player's feature or ability does?
And i don't know of any Blood Hunter feature that would qualify as a danger sense. Are you talking about Grim Psychometry?
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Grapple and shove. The paladin only has a ~2/3 chance to succeed on the saving throw. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it possible for more than one orc to grapple the paladin at a time?
1) Wait, I thought your orcs were taking turns running in and out of melee range, not staying to grapple? You should probably pick one strategy and stick to it 2) Oath of the Ancients get misty step byeeeeeeee
3 orcs could grapple and the others could go to the remaining space.
It only takes 6 orcs on average to grapple and shove on average, so you misty step and dodge, then you are grappled and prone and can make one opportunity attack with disadvantage.
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"Nothing goes over my head. My reflexes are to fast: I would catch it."
"I cannot comment on an ongoing investigation."
"Well of course I know that. What else is there? A kitten?"
"You'd like to think that, Wouldn't you?"
"What do you mean? An African or European swallow?"
He has used this on a few occasions, and I belive he did so at Level 9, one time, but he was utilizing the 120' thing long before that. He is a coworker, so I will speak with him about it tomorrow.
The orcs run in with their bonus action, attack, and run away. You get one opportunity attack: use it wisely. Also, this whole time we've been assuming the paladin goes first.
You really need to get a map and some minis to check out just how viable your scenario actually is
But then, you think a 17th-level paladin will only have an AC of 21, so maybe it wouldn't help
This guy gets it.
My one reaction: 19/20 chance of a hit/kill. (Unless a completely plain weapon in which case… 18/20 chance of a hit.)
their attacks? Worthless. -dodge action. Kill them via reaction.
thats scenario 1 to counter this ridiculously ineffective strategy. Show me the statistical odds for how long it will take your strategy to roll to nat 20s to force a crit. To whittle down the level 17 oath of ancients paladin to death.
Grapple and shove. The paladin only has a ~2/3 chance to succeed on the saving throw. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it possible for more than one orc to grapple the paladin at a time?
Dodge. Disadvantage on their grapples. You are corrected for being wrong. You even quoted me saying dodge.
set up a roll 20. Set up 250 orcs. The player knows they are walking into danger. Have the player be a level 17 Tabaxi oath of ancients paladin using standard array leveled up to 17. Again- don’t even need magic items, even though it’s preposterous for them to not have any. Run the combat.
With the new strategy, the paladin wins 98.4% of the time!
Why Does This Work?
1. Death Ward: Gives a second chance, preventing an early loss.
2. Dodge Action Early: Makes orc javelin attacks significantly less effective, reducing early damage.
3. Stone Skin: Halves damage from all orc attacks, doubling survivability.
4. Sustained Combat: The paladin still kills ~5 orcs per round, but now takes far less damage in return.
Conclusion:
With these tactical changes, the paladin consistently outlasts the orcs, proving that smart resource management and defensive spells can make a massive difference in high-level battles.
The orcs run in with their bonus action, attack, and run away. You get one opportunity attack: use it wisely. Also, this whole time we've been assuming the paladin goes first.
You really need to get a map and some minis to check out just how viable your scenario actually is
But then, you think a 17th-level paladin will only have an AC of 21, so maybe it wouldn't help
This guy gets it.
My one reaction: 19/20 chance of a hit/kill. (Unless a completely plain weapon in which case… 18/20 chance of a hit.)
their attacks? Worthless. -dodge action. Kill them via reaction.
thats scenario 1 to counter this ridiculously ineffective strategy. Show me the statistical odds for how long it will take your strategy to roll to nat 20s to force a crit. To whittle down the level 17 oath of ancients paladin to death.
Grapple and shove. The paladin only has a ~2/3 chance to succeed on the saving throw. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it possible for more than one orc to grapple the paladin at a time?
Dodge. Disadvantage on their grapples. You are corrected for being wrong. You even quoted me saying dodge.
That only gives advantage on dex. saves and disadvantage on attack rolls. Grapples are not attack rolls. "You are corrected for being wrong."
set up a roll 20. Set up 250 orcs. The player knows they are walking into danger. Have the player be a level 17 Tabaxi oath of ancients paladin using standard array leveled up to 17. Again- don’t even need magic items, even though it’s preposterous for them to not have any. Run the combat.
Your suggestion is absurd. I am not familiar with vtts, but I highly doubt they will handle 250 enemies at once at all.
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"Nothing goes over my head. My reflexes are to fast: I would catch it."
"I cannot comment on an ongoing investigation."
"Well of course I know that. What else is there? A kitten?"
"You'd like to think that, Wouldn't you?"
"What do you mean? An African or European swallow?"
With the new strategy, the paladin wins 98.4% of the time!
Why Does This Work?
1. Death Ward: Gives a second chance, preventing an early loss.
2. Dodge Action Early: Makes orc javelin attacks significantly less effective, reducing early damage.
3. Stone Skin: Halves damage from all orc attacks, doubling survivability.
4. Sustained Combat: The paladin still kills ~5 orcs per round, but now takes far less damage in return.
Conclusion:
With these tactical changes, the paladin consistently outlasts the orcs, proving that smart resource management and defensive spells can make a massive difference in high-level battles.
Why do you keep mentioning death ward? It's only blocking one attack.
As I said, grapple and shove negate this very well.
I would imagine the same place you're getting "an orc would win a grapple with a 17th-level paladin one in six times" from
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I would imagine the same place you're getting "an orc would win a grapple with a 17th-level paladin one in six times" from
You could've asked, but okay. The dc for the save would be 13 (8 + pb plus str.). If the paladin has a +5 in strength saves, they would need to roll at least an 8. That gives a 13/20, or roughly 2/3. That means 1/3 orcs will succeed on the grapple and 1/3 on the shove, so you need on average 6 orcs.
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"Nothing goes over my head. My reflexes are to fast: I would catch it."
"I cannot comment on an ongoing investigation."
"Well of course I know that. What else is there? A kitten?"
"You'd like to think that, Wouldn't you?"
"What do you mean? An African or European swallow?"
I think, to the origional point, a powerful group of adventurers with their own army aren't gonna be even remotely touched by the orcs. You need a centerpiece for your army to really have the encounter add up to anything, and the orcs make good distractions and resources drains for it, but by themselves will. Not. Do. ANYTHING.
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DM: He doesn't have much besides the skin on his bones.
Me: I'll take the skin on his bones, then.
Also, this is for Redwall nerds: Eeeeeuuuuulllllllaaaaaaaalllllllliiiiiiiiiaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!
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How acceptable would it be for the Party to enter the valley, and part way across, even with them sensing danger but can't see it yet, a portal pops up within range and Orcs just come spilling through, attacking?
EmeryldRaine. Why are the PCs fighting a army
Dnd nerd here
Because 6 powerful PCs with 10 NPCs helping them.
I know that but how did they get there just curious
Dnd nerd here
They're on their way to the BBG's lair, which is at the top of the mountain. The are not yet in the valley below, but headed that way. The BBG is attempting to create a New World Order and has armies and allies spread across the entire material plane. This Orc army (which will likely include other creatures, at this point) will be the final challenge before they get to the BBG and his "personal army" (he's not going to be just sitting up there, alone).
1) Wait, I thought your orcs were taking turns running in and out of melee range, not staying to grapple? You should probably pick one strategy and stick to it
2) Oath of the Ancients get misty step byeeeeeeee
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I asked this earlier but it got lost in the shuffle... how exactly does this "danger sense" work? There's got to be some way to neutralize it
As for the portal idea, it's quite acceptable, although if the BBEG is going to those lengths they might want tougher minions than orcs spilling out of it
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
That's a super risky strategy, since the Necromancer could cast any persistent AOE spell on top of the portal to instantly incinerate each orc that comes through the portal. You need at least 3 different portals each one ~ 100 ft away from the others surrounding the party. Necromancer will probably still throw up an AoE over one portal but at least then it's only 1/3 of the army that is instantly evaporated.
I think it did get lost. :-) So, this is very much an interesting point. One I have brought up with the group a few times but have yet to get a solid answer on. I think it's time to put some muscle behind it, and I think it comes down to the Blood Hunter. The Player is neurodivergent and has an inclination to print out all possible material on (subject). I've seen the amount of paper he has on his Character. A lot. I have researched the Class and have not found anything that goes beyond 30 feet, and even then it's pertaining to a History check. So, I think I need to tell him to give up the info or he's going to have to be limited by what I've read. The Paladin can get a sense of the lay of the land up to 3 miles (Commune with Nature), and she can sense Fey, Fiend, or Undead within 60 feet, though I wonder how well that would work if more undead where brought into that 60 feet, seeing as how she is traveling with the Necro who has 2 undead of his own....LOL. And I do plan to include additional creatures.....originally I wanted an Orc army to focus on the Dwarf's hatred of them as a means of facilitating some emotion behind the combat scene. I have never expected players to "do voices" nor cinematic RP, but two sessions ago, I had to point out that the PCs have been on this mission for *months* and by now they should be able to converse with one another and strategize together. The Players seem to be inclined to simply tell in 3rd person what they're doing and then roll for it. Kinda frustrating. They've gotten better over time, but I had to really make a point with that.
Err, you're the DM. How can you not have a "solid answer" on what a player's feature or ability does?
And i don't know of any Blood Hunter feature that would qualify as a danger sense. Are you talking about Grim Psychometry?
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Homebrew spell: dominance
Extended signature
He has used this on a few occasions, and I belive he did so at Level 9, one time, but he was utilizing the 120' thing long before that. He is a coworker, so I will speak with him about it tomorrow.
Dodge. Disadvantage on their grapples. You are corrected for being wrong. You even quoted me saying dodge.
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Seriously:
set up a roll 20. Set up 250 orcs. The player knows they are walking into danger. Have the player be a level 17 Tabaxi oath of ancients paladin using standard array leveled up to 17. Again- don’t even need magic items, even though it’s preposterous for them to not have any. Run the combat.
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Casting death ward and stone skin before hand:
With the new strategy, the paladin wins 98.4% of the time!
Why Does This Work?
1. Death Ward: Gives a second chance, preventing an early loss.
2. Dodge Action Early: Makes orc javelin attacks significantly less effective, reducing early damage.
3. Stone Skin: Halves damage from all orc attacks, doubling survivability.
4. Sustained Combat: The paladin still kills ~5 orcs per round, but now takes far less damage in return.
Conclusion:
With these tactical changes, the paladin consistently outlasts the orcs, proving that smart resource management and defensive spells can make a massive difference in high-level battles.
Blank
That only gives advantage on dex. saves and disadvantage on attack rolls. Grapples are not attack rolls. "You are corrected for being wrong."
Your suggestion is absurd. I am not familiar with vtts, but I highly doubt they will handle 250 enemies at once at all.
Homebrew spell: dominance
Extended signature
Also, where are you getting 98.4 from?
Homebrew spell: dominance
Extended signature
I would imagine the same place you're getting "an orc would win a grapple with a 17th-level paladin one in six times" from
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
You could've asked, but okay. The dc for the save would be 13 (8 + pb plus str.). If the paladin has a +5 in strength saves, they would need to roll at least an 8. That gives a 13/20, or roughly 2/3. That means 1/3 orcs will succeed on the grapple and 1/3 on the shove, so you need on average 6 orcs.
Homebrew spell: dominance
Extended signature
I think, to the origional point, a powerful group of adventurers with their own army aren't gonna be even remotely touched by the orcs. You need a centerpiece for your army to really have the encounter add up to anything, and the orcs make good distractions and resources drains for it, but by themselves will. Not. Do. ANYTHING.
DM: He doesn't have much besides the skin on his bones.
Me: I'll take the skin on his bones, then.
Also, this is for Redwall nerds: Eeeeeuuuuulllllllaaaaaaaalllllllliiiiiiiiiaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!