An idea: valley has tall grasses. Orc frontline is in 6 clusters, 4 in each cluster, hiding in the grasses, about 60' out from the party. As the party moves across the valley, the move forward in the same direction, maintaining the 60' distance, but the clusters that would make up the "from behind" move towards each other so that ultimately, they form a circle around the party until the time is right, at which point they move to 30' and then attack (surprise). They intermingle among the Party, thus hindering area effect spells. During the chaos, portals (Endgame-style, as one poster mentioned) open up from numerous directions and in pours other enemy creatures.
30 orcs is 3 per player character/NPC, even in an ambush situation they are barely going to last more than 1 round. And isn't this defeating your whole reason for including the orcs? If the players can't see the orcs before the attack, the dwarf doesn't have time to get angry about them. The long and short of it is, 17th level characters vs CR 1/2 orcs is never going to be an interesting fight. CR 1/2 orcs are bugs for your party to swash under the heel of their boot. You can HB the orcs to be some weird mutant / hybrid monsters (like Saurumans Urukai in LotR), or make them special champions or elite soldiers (give them at least 10 player character levels) if you want the fight vs the Orcs to be something other than a minor distraction. But RAW CR 1/2 Orcs are nothing compared to 17th level player characters and no amount of tactics will change that.
An idea: valley has tall grasses. Orc frontline is in 6 clusters, 4 in each cluster, hiding in the grasses, about 60' out from the party. As the party moves across the valley, the move forward in the same direction, maintaining the 60' distance, but the clusters that would make up the "from behind" move towards each other so that ultimately, they form a circle around the party until the time is right, at which point they move to 30' and then attack (surprise). They intermingle among the Party, thus hindering area effect spells. During the chaos, portals (Endgame-style, as one poster mentioned) open up from numerous directions and in pours other enemy creatures.
30 orcs is 3 per player character/NPC, even in an ambush situation they are barely going to last more than 1 round. And isn't this defeating your whole reason for including the orcs? If the players can't see the orcs before the attack, the dwarf doesn't have time to get angry about them. The long and short of it is, 17th level characters vs CR 1/2 orcs is never going to be an interesting fight. CR 1/2 orcs are bugs for your party to swash under the heel of their boot. You can HB the orcs to be some weird mutant / hybrid monsters (like Saurumans Urukai in LotR), or make them special champions or elite soldiers (give them at least 10 player character levels) if you want the fight vs the Orcs to be something other than a minor distraction. But RAW CR 1/2 Orcs are nothing compared to 17th level player characters and no amount of tactics will change that.
Wouldn't it be funny if one of your players was surfing the forums and finds this, then briefs your party with insane tactics and mops the floor with like a hidden flank formation or something? Also, I like the idea of an incircle-ambush thing, maybe give them air support so that it feels like they are completely completely surrounded (second completely intended)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DM: He doesn't have much besides the skin on his bones.
Me: I'll take the skin on his bones, then.
Also, this is for Redwall nerds: Eeeeeuuuuulllllllaaaaaaaalllllllliiiiiiiiiaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!
I will definitely update with the results (session is on the 11th). I'm combining a great deal of the suggestions here. Crossing fingers and hoping the Players come out of it saying, "Now, THAT was a fight!".
Combat had to be split between two sessions. They split the party, of course (sigh), with two of them 1/4 mile ahead of the rest of the group. The frontline Orcs went down in 1.5 rounds, Nalfeshnee were all but completely dead in 1.5 more rounds, and here come 4 gigantic creatures (speed is 100'), plus 6 portals just opened up, pouring forth a whole slew of creatures (more Orcs among them....but not just melee ones). That's where we had to stop.
30 orcs is 3 per player character/NPC, even in an ambush situation they are barely going to last more than 1 round. And isn't this defeating your whole reason for including the orcs? If the players can't see the orcs before the attack, the dwarf doesn't have time to get angry about them. The long and short of it is, 17th level characters vs CR 1/2 orcs is never going to be an interesting fight. CR 1/2 orcs are bugs for your party to swash under the heel of their boot. You can HB the orcs to be some weird mutant / hybrid monsters (like Saurumans Urukai in LotR), or make them special champions or elite soldiers (give them at least 10 player character levels) if you want the fight vs the Orcs to be something other than a minor distraction. But RAW CR 1/2 Orcs are nothing compared to 17th level player characters and no amount of tactics will change that.
This^
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I decided to have a frontline of Orcs as an ambush, then bring in other creatures with higher CR.
Wouldn't it be funny if one of your players was surfing the forums and finds this, then briefs your party with insane tactics and mops the floor with like a hidden flank formation or something? Also, I like the idea of an incircle-ambush thing, maybe give them air support so that it feels like they are completely completely surrounded (second completely intended)
DM: He doesn't have much besides the skin on his bones.
Me: I'll take the skin on his bones, then.
Also, this is for Redwall nerds: Eeeeeuuuuulllllllaaaaaaaalllllllliiiiiiiiiaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!
Funny, it would not be. That would be betrayal.
Thank you to everyone for all your input. You've been kind.
Please post an update of how it turns out
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Thank you so much for this.
I truly appreciate this advice.
I will definitely update with the results (session is on the 11th). I'm combining a great deal of the suggestions here. Crossing fingers and hoping the Players come out of it saying, "Now, THAT was a fight!".
Let's hope so >:)
DM: He doesn't have much besides the skin on his bones.
Me: I'll take the skin on his bones, then.
Also, this is for Redwall nerds: Eeeeeuuuuulllllllaaaaaaaalllllllliiiiiiiiiaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well, what happened? You're killing me with the suspense
DM: He doesn't have much besides the skin on his bones.
Me: I'll take the skin on his bones, then.
Also, this is for Redwall nerds: Eeeeeuuuuulllllllaaaaaaaalllllllliiiiiiiiiaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!
Combat had to be split between two sessions. They split the party, of course (sigh), with two of them 1/4 mile ahead of the rest of the group. The frontline Orcs went down in 1.5 rounds, Nalfeshnee were all but completely dead in 1.5 more rounds, and here come 4 gigantic creatures (speed is 100'), plus 6 portals just opened up, pouring forth a whole slew of creatures (more Orcs among them....but not just melee ones). That's where we had to stop.
Also, how do I edit the title of this thread?
I don't know if you can
DM: He doesn't have much besides the skin on his bones.
Me: I'll take the skin on his bones, then.
Also, this is for Redwall nerds: Eeeeeuuuuulllllllaaaaaaaalllllllliiiiiiiiiaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ah, there it is. I have to do it on a laptop/pc, not a phone.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/dungeon-masters-only/193229-a-forever-dms-advice-on-big-bads
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/dungeon-masters-only/193282-a-forever-dms-advice-on-the-bbeg-part-2
these are some posts I made a few years ago on how I run boss fights.
this one is just a post I found helpful. https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1728-running-hordes-of-monsters-without-lots-of-fuss
What happened in the second session?
DM: He doesn't have much besides the skin on his bones.
Me: I'll take the skin on his bones, then.
Also, this is for Redwall nerds: Eeeeeuuuuulllllllaaaaaaaalllllllliiiiiiiiiaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!