I do feel it might be wise to put modern fuel-air bombs at one end of the spectrum, and some flour on a table at the other. For one thing, a table full of flour would have a rather limited source of oxygen to consume for the explosion.
I've no idea how much difference that makes, I'm neither a phycisist or a demolitionist. I just feel ... maybe flour doesn't get quite as much bang for the buck as ... I dunno, magnesium, ignited not by a candle but by some super reactive explosive compound.
Flour on a table will struggle to even burn. Substances that are actually explosive will typically create their own oxygen as they're consumed. Dust explosions are a different animal entirely, almost anything combustible suspended in the air in the appropriate concentration will result in an explosion.
The flour wasn’t only left on the table, the tabletop was suspended by ropes with candles under them so when the rope burned through the tabletop would drop and the flour would get dispersed into the air and be ignited by the lit candles.
Gust of wind, even a small air elemental. You need to get the flour up into the air, keep it up and then ignite it - preferably with your party out of the area of effect. Simply leaving a lit torch in the room while the spell or elemental swirls the dust is probably enough as the cloud will explode when the concentration hits the right point.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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The flour wasn’t only left on the table, the tabletop was suspended by ropes with candles under them so when the rope burned through the tabletop would drop and the flour would get dispersed into the air and be ignited by the lit candles.
I'm well aware.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
The flour wasn’t only left on the table, the tabletop was suspended by ropes with candles under them so when the rope burned through the tabletop would drop and the flour would get dispersed into the air and be ignited by the lit candles.
Any combustible material, finely powdered (or misted for liquids) and mixed with air, can produce an explosion, but it takes a large amount, very finely divided, and quite well suspended. If you were to drop a bag of flour, the vast majority of it is just going to cake up and immediately fall out the air (how much so will depend on humidity); the reason it's a problem with flour mills is that there's so much flour that even a very small percentage of the total flour is still a lot of flour.
Also, a blast that can collapse buildings may not actually do much to living creatures; buildings are quite lightweight for their area and have large flat surfaces, both of which make them very vulnerable to pressure.
In any case, this is way more physics than D&D actually cares about.
In that case, pretend like I never said anything. I am myself of the school of thought that anyone can participate in a discussion, without being obliged to read the entire thread. So thanks for clarifying for me.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Any combustible material, finely powdered (or misted for liquids) and mixed with air, can produce an explosion, but it takes a large amount, very finely divided, and quite well suspended. If you were to drop a bag of flour, the vast majority of it is just going to cake up and immediately fall out the air (how much so will depend on humidity); the reason it's a problem with flour mills is that there's so much flour that even a very small percentage of the total flour is still a lot of flour.
Also, a blast that can collapse buildings may not actually do much to living creatures; buildings are quite lightweight for their area and have large flat surfaces, both of which make them very vulnerable to pressure.
In any case, this is way more physics than D&D actually cares about.
Dropping a bag of flour will have a different result than dropping an open platter of loose flour.
I guess, in terms of fantasy-achievable effects, you want either to use magic (like a dust devil or small elemental), or some sort of combination of pre-existing items, like a thunderstone to disperse a bag of flour, and a greek fire to ignite it after a short delay. Not that the thunderstone has any such effect, officially. Also, whether you want this type of science stuff in your game seems up for debate =D
Personally I like to have some form of science to counteract magic. But if it get's too close to real world (and present day) knowledge, it kinda feels like cheating.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
I guess, in terms of fantasy-achievable effects, you want either to use magic (like a dust devil or small elemental), or some sort of combination of pre-existing items, like a thunderstone to disperse a bag of flour, and a greek fire to ignite it after a short delay. Not that the thunderstone has any such effect, officially. Also, whether you want this type of science stuff in your game seems up for debate =D
Personally I like to have some form of science to counteract magic. But if it get's too close to real world (and present day) knowledge, it kinda feels like cheating.
I like enough science hat you can frequently use mundane science instead of magic to extend abilities- things like using small ballbearings instead of a grease spell.
Personally I like to have some form of science to counteract magic. But if it get's too close to real world (and present day) knowledge, it kinda feels like cheating.
But knowledge they had in medieval times should be fair game. Ne? And they knew about the combustibility of flour particles suspended in air at that time. They might not have known why it was combustible, but they certainly knew that it was combustible.
I guess, in terms of fantasy-achievable effects, you want either to use magic (like a dust devil or small elemental), or some sort of combination of pre-existing items, like a thunderstone to disperse a bag of flour, and a greek fire to ignite it after a short delay. Not that the thunderstone has any such effect, officially. Also, whether you want this type of science stuff in your game seems up for debate =D
Personally I like to have some form of science to counteract magic. But if it get's too close to real world (and present day) knowledge, it kinda feels like cheating.
I like enough science hat you can frequently use mundane science instead of magic to extend abilities- things like using small ballbearings instead of a grease spell.
Well, that's an explicit property of the ball bearings.
Dropping a bag of flour will have a different result than dropping an open platter of loose flour.
Correct. It will be even less effective than the open platter.
Exactly.
This does not mean the open platter will be effective. It will just be marginally less ineffective than the bag.
You say “marginally less ineffective,” but since you haven’t conducted any experiments to determine how effective either situation is, I’ll take it with a grain of salt if you don’t mind. You have no practical way of knowing how effective either method is, but I’ve read of accounts that it was actually used IRL. Admittedly I cannot reference my source, it’s been lost somewhere in the last 40+ years of stuff I’ve read, but I know I read of it somewhere. So unless and until someone such as yourself demonstrates that it wouldn’t work, I’ll keep believing that it did.
You say “marginally less ineffective,” but since you haven’t conducted any experiments to determine how effective either situation is, I’ll take it with a grain of salt if you don’t mind. You have no practical way of knowing how effective either method is, but I’ve read of accounts that it was actually used IRL. Admittedly I cannot reference my source, it’s been lost somewhere in the last 40+ years of stuff I’ve read, but I know I read of it somewhere. So unless and until someone such as yourself demonstrates that it wouldn’t work, I’ll keep believing that it did.
Even if everything actually works as described I wouldn't believe it being used in real life, because if you have the access to set it up you have the access to do much more valuable things.
You say “marginally less ineffective,” but since you haven’t conducted any experiments to determine how effective either situation is, I’ll take it with a grain of salt if you don’t mind. You have no practical way of knowing how effective either method is, but I’ve read of accounts that it was actually used IRL. Admittedly I cannot reference my source, it’s been lost somewhere in the last 40+ years of stuff I’ve read, but I know I read of it somewhere. So unless and until someone such as yourself demonstrates that it wouldn’t work, I’ll keep believing that it did.
Even if everything actually works as described I wouldn't believe it being used in real life, because if you have the access to set it up you have the access to do much more valuable things.
I mean, sappers digging under foundations and using an explosion to collapse them is real, but I'm not sure how much of a regular tactic it was prior to the advent of gunpowder, since it sounds like trying to touch off flour or sawdust would be pretty fiddly.
Getting the correct explosive mixture was just not consistent enough. That and the fact that the tunnel would have to be closed off close to the target wall in order for the explosion to concentrate at the wall and not just jet out of the open tunnel.
Breaching walls by digging under them was not a very practical tactic. It very often resulted in the rubble being harder to get through than just going over the wall in the first place. And if it collapsed early it would kill the sappers.
The flour wasn’t only left on the table, the tabletop was suspended by ropes with candles under them so when the rope burned through the tabletop would drop and the flour would get dispersed into the air and be ignited by the lit candles.
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An air elemental, a fire elemental, and a dust mephit walk into a bar...
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
I'm well aware.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Just clarifying for anyone late to the party.
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Any combustible material, finely powdered (or misted for liquids) and mixed with air, can produce an explosion, but it takes a large amount, very finely divided, and quite well suspended. If you were to drop a bag of flour, the vast majority of it is just going to cake up and immediately fall out the air (how much so will depend on humidity); the reason it's a problem with flour mills is that there's so much flour that even a very small percentage of the total flour is still a lot of flour.
Also, a blast that can collapse buildings may not actually do much to living creatures; buildings are quite lightweight for their area and have large flat surfaces, both of which make them very vulnerable to pressure.
In any case, this is way more physics than D&D actually cares about.
Oh. Right =)
In that case, pretend like I never said anything. I am myself of the school of thought that anyone can participate in a discussion, without being obliged to read the entire thread. So thanks for clarifying for me.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Dropping a bag of flour will have a different result than dropping an open platter of loose flour.
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I guess, in terms of fantasy-achievable effects, you want either to use magic (like a dust devil or small elemental), or some sort of combination of pre-existing items, like a thunderstone to disperse a bag of flour, and a greek fire to ignite it after a short delay. Not that the thunderstone has any such effect, officially. Also, whether you want this type of science stuff in your game seems up for debate =D
Personally I like to have some form of science to counteract magic. But if it get's too close to real world (and present day) knowledge, it kinda feels like cheating.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Correct. It will be even less effective than the open platter.
I like enough science hat you can frequently use mundane science instead of magic to extend abilities- things like using small ballbearings instead of a grease spell.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Exactly.
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But knowledge they had in medieval times should be fair game. Ne? And they knew about the combustibility of flour particles suspended in air at that time. They might not have known why it was combustible, but they certainly knew that it was combustible.
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Well, that's an explicit property of the ball bearings.
This does not mean the open platter will be effective. It will just be marginally less ineffective than the bag.
You say “marginally less ineffective,” but since you haven’t conducted any experiments to determine how effective either situation is, I’ll take it with a grain of salt if you don’t mind. You have no practical way of knowing how effective either method is, but I’ve read of accounts that it was actually used IRL. Admittedly I cannot reference my source, it’s been lost somewhere in the last 40+ years of stuff I’ve read, but I know I read of it somewhere. So unless and until someone such as yourself demonstrates that it wouldn’t work, I’ll keep believing that it did.
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Even if everything actually works as described I wouldn't believe it being used in real life, because if you have the access to set it up you have the access to do much more valuable things.
I mean, sappers digging under foundations and using an explosion to collapse them is real, but I'm not sure how much of a regular tactic it was prior to the advent of gunpowder, since it sounds like trying to touch off flour or sawdust would be pretty fiddly.
I have heard that it was tried but failed.
Getting the correct explosive mixture was just not consistent enough. That and the fact that the tunnel would have to be closed off close to the target wall in order for the explosion to concentrate at the wall and not just jet out of the open tunnel.
Breaching walls by digging under them was not a very practical tactic. It very often resulted in the rubble being harder to get through than just going over the wall in the first place. And if it collapsed early it would kill the sappers.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale