Hi, welcome to the thread. Just wanna talk about some classes and how their roles may change and stuff. I dislike feeling underprepared and don't mind stuff going unused.
My bias casually playing with the same dungeon master (DM) over years makes my experience sorta unique with this game since much changes with a different DM. The first time one of my characters met their end was at 8th level in the previous 5e ruleset from 2014. We've now reached 8th level on the most updated 5e ruleset of 2024 and I like how some features may contribute to a satisfying result in a fight. "Your opposition may be stronger, but you're smarter" -My mom. "Killing is art, dying is part (of it)" -An online player.
People mention the best crowd control is to erase target's hit points (HP) or best defense being strong offense and I wanna point out some DMs may do just that against player characters (PC). Your PC may end up relying on opponents' whims if high damage dealing allies are unconscious due to missing hit points, which is why I may overvalue features that prevent or reduce damage taken and/or quickly regain HP. I believe these classes should be in a group for 5e ruleset of 2024 according to what I've experienced with my DM over time: 1. Barbarian 2. Cleric 3. Wizard 4. Bard 5. Paladin
0. Rage, preserve life channel divinity, buncha odd magics, spell backup and aura of protection. Monsters will try to defeat PCs while resistances granted by barbarian's rage lower damage character takes, main thing I need you to note is that it doesn't decrease the amount of healing they receive, so the HP of an enraged barbarian will last noticeably longer in battle compared to the HP of other allies lacking damage resistances; healing enraged hit points that have appropriate damage resistances makes them withstand a lot of damage and the character won't die too quick. Wizard needs to get creative, class has the highest amount of spell selection and may snatch up wizard rituals from other spellbooks or scrolls (false life spell at 1st PC level can provide about 9 average temporary hit points so they may survive some encounters and hopefully level up). Bards can get stuck with the responsibility of scouting and stuff due to their expertise and jack of all trades, they can learn the cure wounds spell and nudge cleric to concentrate on the beacon of hope spell. If there's room for another one or more PC's, a paladin's aura of protection and their possible concentration on the bless spell can shore up some PCs saving throws. This setup can be low on damage output, but may endure long enough to conquer challenges.
Current build recommendations from player's handbook 2024: 1. High strength small size (pls wait for it) aasimar species, origin feat magic initiate wizard mage hand, mending (DM allowed it to repair stuff damaged by rust monster trait), find familiar (CR 0 deer is a beast type creature in the free rules with 50ft speed, medium size which your DM may allow small or smaller creatures to mount, agile trait makes deer immune to common opportunity attacks, they got darkvision 60ft, 4 average HP and 165 carrying capacity), path of the wild heart subclass bear rage of the wilds for more damage resistances combined with aasimar's, mounted combatant feat, panther aspect of the wilds for climb speed if PC needs to move about their large or larger sized mount to reach targets and consider bringing up the phantom steed ritual for wizard or lore bard allies to pick up near 6th PC level; if going to experience 9th PC level, there's polearm master feat at 8th to try brutal strike with bonus action provided by the feat since it would deal lower damage on a hit anyway; if playing 14th with the lion power of the wilds, an option is the sentinel feat at 12th; great weapon master feat at 16th so mounted PC may wield lance with one hand while other holds onto gargantuan mount on a rope it's wearing or something get within 5ft of target for lion buff and if they try to move away there's the unarmed sentinel halt to try rooting them at the time; can top it off with epic boon of recovery so PC regains half max hp once per long rest if 11th PC level's relentless rage fails, then, if going beyond 20th, epic boon of fortitude may go well for additional max HP and add con mod to epic boon of recovery's d10s.
2. Ever since the total party kill (TPK) to fireball spam at 10th PC level a while back I kinda like having fire resistance on my PCs which also work against allies' fireballs, so a high wisdom fire resistant dragonborn species suits me here; they can also unlock fly speed upon leveling like aasimar. Alert origin feat, protector divine order, life domain subclass, war caster feat, potent spellcasting, resilient constitution feat, consider inspiring leader and durable feats, epic boon of fortitude at 19th level for max HP and extra con mod healing, sets up for epic boon of recovery if adventuring past 20th. Concentration for stuff among bless, calm emotions, spirit guardians, beacon of hope, circle of power, conjure celestial, etc. Consider healing word, dispel magic, heal, mass heal.
3. The feeblest HP of all may pick small size high intelligence human species for tough origin feat besides alert origin feat, abjurer subclass, war caster feat, resilient constitution feat, consider epic boon of combat prowess to guarantee attack roll for spells (if DM allows) including chill touch to block target's regeneration. False life spell for low level PC (possible blade ward), find familiar try to mount deer, mage armor and shield spells may be postponed for 3rd PC level abjuration savant, see invisibility, darkvision, rope trick, fireball, phantom steed, mordenkainen's faithful hound, dimension door, tasha's bubbling cauldron, contingency otiluke's resilient sphere, finger of death, teleport, demiplane, mind blank, prismatic wall, wish glyph of warding inside demiplane etc, concentration on witch bolt, cloud of daggers, spider climb, fly, polymorph, wall of force, circle of power, yolande's regal presence, shapechange, signature spells fly, counterspell to cast without slot on same turn as something else once per short rest.
4. Dwarf species with high charisma, stuff from life domain cleric and abjurer wizard, alert origin feat, college of lore subclass for backup chill touch cantrip with combat prowess epic boon at 19th level, war caster feat, resilient constitution feat. Consider conjure woodland beings spell, expertise perception, sleight of hand, acrobatics, investigation, proficiency arcana, stealth, survival, insight.
5. High charisma fire dragonborn species, alert origin feat, protection fighting style, oath of devotion subclass, war caster feat, resilient constitution feat try getting wizard or bard to share potion of hill giant strength from tasha's bubbling cauldron spell near 11th PC level, increase charisma at tier 3 while considering feats such as inspiring leader if cleric didn't get it or durable; fortitude epic boon use low amount of lay on hands on self the get the most out of the epic boon; recovery epic boon after 20th level.
Barbarians are not as good as tanks as you think. The main downside is the lower AC compounded by advantagebto attack them. This means they take more damage, eat more riders and require more resources to heal. The one advantagebthey have is damage making them an easy target but resistance and hp are worse survival.mechanics than AC.
You see AC is the only one that gets better the more you have. So combining Armor, Shield, Fighting Style plus spells can make you better at survival than any Barb. What you need is damage to keep the monsters attention, something like grappling, smites or control options.
That was really long to read, and I will admit I didn’t, but I have to take issue with one of your early statements. The best crowd control isn’t taking opponents hp, it’s taking their action economy. Fireball is great for hurting lots of enemies at once, but they still will all be standing afterwards. Hypnotic pattern, however, is basically pressing the “we win” button. If an enemy doesn’t have ranged attacks, levitate is possibly the best 2nd level spell to use on them. Banishment, hold monster, monk’s stunning strike, etc. Even pausing their attacks for one round can give you enough room to turn the fight.
For solo play I think fighters are fine. Some self-heals to keep moving and a lot more available in 2024. An Eldritch knight can add Arcane Recovery. About half as much healing available as a paladin at 6th when comparing Second wind versus lay on hands. High AC+ shield. More feats or ASI to help.
You say solo then mention "if cleric doesn't get it." Solo characters will absolutely survive at the whim of a DM because any single character can be super easily countered. It is impossible to create a character a DM cannot kill. If your DM spams fireballs at you, next time they will spam lightning bolts. Or Hold Person.
Non-solo characters should meet a party goal. It's hard to beat a martial (fighter/barb/pally), caster (Wizard/sorc/bard), cleric/druid, and skill (Rogue/bard/maybe ranger) party.
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Hi, welcome to the thread. Just wanna talk about some classes and how their roles may change and stuff. I dislike feeling underprepared and don't mind stuff going unused.
My bias casually playing with the same dungeon master (DM) over years makes my experience sorta unique with this game since much changes with a different DM. The first time one of my characters met their end was at 8th level in the previous 5e ruleset from 2014. We've now reached 8th level on the most updated 5e ruleset of 2024 and I like how some features may contribute to a satisfying result in a fight. "Your opposition may be stronger, but you're smarter" -My mom. "Killing is art, dying is part (of it)" -An online player.
People mention the best crowd control is to erase target's hit points (HP) or best defense being strong offense and I wanna point out some DMs may do just that against player characters (PC). Your PC may end up relying on opponents' whims if high damage dealing allies are unconscious due to missing hit points, which is why I may overvalue features that prevent or reduce damage taken and/or quickly regain HP. I believe these classes should be in a group for 5e ruleset of 2024 according to what I've experienced with my DM over time:
1. Barbarian
2. Cleric
3. Wizard
4. Bard
5. Paladin
0. Rage, preserve life channel divinity, buncha odd magics, spell backup and aura of protection. Monsters will try to defeat PCs while resistances granted by barbarian's rage lower damage character takes, main thing I need you to note is that it doesn't decrease the amount of healing they receive, so the HP of an enraged barbarian will last noticeably longer in battle compared to the HP of other allies lacking damage resistances; healing enraged hit points that have appropriate damage resistances makes them withstand a lot of damage and the character won't die too quick. Wizard needs to get creative, class has the highest amount of spell selection and may snatch up wizard rituals from other spellbooks or scrolls (false life spell at 1st PC level can provide about 9 average temporary hit points so they may survive some encounters and hopefully level up). Bards can get stuck with the responsibility of scouting and stuff due to their expertise and jack of all trades, they can learn the cure wounds spell and nudge cleric to concentrate on the beacon of hope spell. If there's room for another one or more PC's, a paladin's aura of protection and their possible concentration on the bless spell can shore up some PCs saving throws. This setup can be low on damage output, but may endure long enough to conquer challenges.
Current build recommendations from player's handbook 2024: 1. High strength small size (pls wait for it) aasimar species, origin feat magic initiate wizard mage hand, mending (DM allowed it to repair stuff damaged by rust monster trait), find familiar (CR 0 deer is a beast type creature in the free rules with 50ft speed, medium size which your DM may allow small or smaller creatures to mount, agile trait makes deer immune to common opportunity attacks, they got darkvision 60ft, 4 average HP and 165 carrying capacity), path of the wild heart subclass bear rage of the wilds for more damage resistances combined with aasimar's, mounted combatant feat, panther aspect of the wilds for climb speed if PC needs to move about their large or larger sized mount to reach targets and consider bringing up the phantom steed ritual for wizard or lore bard allies to pick up near 6th PC level; if going to experience 9th PC level, there's polearm master feat at 8th to try brutal strike with bonus action provided by the feat since it would deal lower damage on a hit anyway; if playing 14th with the lion power of the wilds, an option is the sentinel feat at 12th; great weapon master feat at 16th so mounted PC may wield lance with one hand while other holds onto gargantuan mount on a rope it's wearing or something get within 5ft of target for lion buff and if they try to move away there's the unarmed sentinel halt to try rooting them at the time; can top it off with epic boon of recovery so PC regains half max hp once per long rest if 11th PC level's relentless rage fails, then, if going beyond 20th, epic boon of fortitude may go well for additional max HP and add con mod to epic boon of recovery's d10s.
2. Ever since the total party kill (TPK) to fireball spam at 10th PC level a while back I kinda like having fire resistance on my PCs which also work against allies' fireballs, so a high wisdom fire resistant dragonborn species suits me here; they can also unlock fly speed upon leveling like aasimar. Alert origin feat, protector divine order, life domain subclass, war caster feat, potent spellcasting, resilient constitution feat, consider inspiring leader and durable feats, epic boon of fortitude at 19th level for max HP and extra con mod healing, sets up for epic boon of recovery if adventuring past 20th. Concentration for stuff among bless, calm emotions, spirit guardians, beacon of hope, circle of power, conjure celestial, etc. Consider healing word, dispel magic, heal, mass heal.
3. The feeblest HP of all may pick small size high intelligence human species for tough origin feat besides alert origin feat, abjurer subclass, war caster feat, resilient constitution feat, consider epic boon of combat prowess to guarantee attack roll for spells (if DM allows) including chill touch to block target's regeneration. False life spell for low level PC (possible blade ward), find familiar try to mount deer, mage armor and shield spells may be postponed for 3rd PC level abjuration savant, see invisibility, darkvision, rope trick, fireball, phantom steed, mordenkainen's faithful hound, dimension door, tasha's bubbling cauldron, contingency otiluke's resilient sphere, finger of death, teleport, demiplane, mind blank, prismatic wall, wish glyph of warding inside demiplane etc, concentration on witch bolt, cloud of daggers, spider climb, fly, polymorph, wall of force, circle of power, yolande's regal presence, shapechange, signature spells fly, counterspell to cast without slot on same turn as something else once per short rest.
4. Dwarf species with high charisma, stuff from life domain cleric and abjurer wizard, alert origin feat, college of lore subclass for backup chill touch cantrip with combat prowess epic boon at 19th level, war caster feat, resilient constitution feat. Consider conjure woodland beings spell, expertise perception, sleight of hand, acrobatics, investigation, proficiency arcana, stealth, survival, insight.
5. High charisma fire dragonborn species, alert origin feat, protection fighting style, oath of devotion subclass, war caster feat, resilient constitution feat try getting wizard or bard to share potion of hill giant strength from tasha's bubbling cauldron spell near 11th PC level, increase charisma at tier 3 while considering feats such as inspiring leader if cleric didn't get it or durable; fortitude epic boon use low amount of lay on hands on self the get the most out of the epic boon; recovery epic boon after 20th level.
2014 history:
(っ'-')╮ =͟͟ 🔥「sword, servant, hound, memory, mind, horse, lord, bolt, smoke, sight」
Barbarians are not as good as tanks as you think. The main downside is the lower AC compounded by advantagebto attack them. This means they take more damage, eat more riders and require more resources to heal. The one advantagebthey have is damage making them an easy target but resistance and hp are worse survival.mechanics than AC.
You see AC is the only one that gets better the more you have. So combining Armor, Shield, Fighting Style plus spells can make you better at survival than any Barb. What you need is damage to keep the monsters attention, something like grappling, smites or control options.
That was really long to read, and I will admit I didn’t, but I have to take issue with one of your early statements. The best crowd control isn’t taking opponents hp, it’s taking their action economy.
Fireball is great for hurting lots of enemies at once, but they still will all be standing afterwards. Hypnotic pattern, however, is basically pressing the “we win” button.
If an enemy doesn’t have ranged attacks, levitate is possibly the best 2nd level spell to use on them. Banishment, hold monster, monk’s stunning strike, etc. Even pausing their attacks for one round can give you enough room to turn the fight.
For solo play I think fighters are fine. Some self-heals to keep moving and a lot more available in 2024. An Eldritch knight can add Arcane Recovery. About half as much healing available as a paladin at 6th when comparing Second wind versus lay on hands. High AC+ shield. More feats or ASI to help.
You say solo then mention "if cleric doesn't get it." Solo characters will absolutely survive at the whim of a DM because any single character can be super easily countered. It is impossible to create a character a DM cannot kill. If your DM spams fireballs at you, next time they will spam lightning bolts. Or Hold Person.
Non-solo characters should meet a party goal. It's hard to beat a martial (fighter/barb/pally), caster (Wizard/sorc/bard), cleric/druid, and skill (Rogue/bard/maybe ranger) party.