I was hoping to gain some advice for a new character I'll be playing soon. It is a kobold battle master (fighter). I wanted to play him as very tactful but not entirely sure why his tactics work.
I have 8 Intelligence and 16 Wisdom.
I'm looking for tips on how to play this out. I put a brief backstory under the spoiler to save room in case that helps understand what I'm trying to do with him.
Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions.
Frinkle was a hatchling when he was 'adopted' by Melinda, a cleric that was on a quest to clear a kobold den. Melinda couldn't bring herself to slaying the baby kobold due to her following of Lathander, god of birth and renewal. She convinced the rest of her group to give the little guy a chance. She promised to do her best to teach him a peaceful way of life as it were. And so she retired from adventuring momentarily to raise the young kobold.
She named him Frinkle, which was meant as more of a nickname but Melinda did not realize how quick kobolds were to adopt their name. He wouldn't respond to any other and so it became his. She tried to teach him the ways of her temple, which he understood, if only the very basics. Frinkle was not able to follow the ways of a cleric though and so she got her friend Peruval, to train Frinkle in a more martial style. Frinkle took to it quickly and showed a decent innate skill to aiming a crossbow. With that, he trained every morning.
Eventually Melinda had to part ways and return to her adventuring troupe, she left Frinkle behind with Peruval to continue his training with the promise to return. For the past 10 years, Frinkle has waited at the city gates every morning before his training, eagerly looking at the horizon for the return of his old friend, Melinda.
There is nothing wrong with having a slightly dim character that is also very perceptive. You have to be willing to give up having brilliant plans and ideas though. Well, you CAN but it wouldn't really fit the character.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
My character also has the benefit of being a low INT, high WIS build. How I play it is that she has common sense, remembers experiences in a detailed way, and can speak very well. Anything that would involve actual learning (unless it was something she was fascinated by) would not jibe. Arcana, history, investigation? My negative modifier is an indication that I suck at that, but I always have a clever comment why I suck at it.
I think INTelligence is pure intelligence - things like how many languages you can speak, how much you know about history, how many books you have readed and how much you have studied.
WISdom is different than book-knowledge. Wisdom can be good social skills, good understanding of different cultures and ability to understand many things in general. Wisdom is more like logical thinking.
For example half-orc with with 8 intelligence and 16 Wisdom can be very polite and civilized (WIS 16) but does not know lot about history or does not read well. (INT 8)
I think the key is to play him as cunning, but not smart. He doesn't look at a battlefield and analyze the best tactics, he simply instinctively knows the best way to take down his foe(s).
I also have a low Int, high Wis kobold (rogue in my case). I view it as a difference between book smarts and street smarts. Tactical brilliance however is a book smarts issue. It's why we have military academies to teach it. I would switch your scores around if that's what you are going for.
I love this kind of character, the quirky type that has a low stat you embrace rather than lament.
I'm reminded of My Hero Academia as a current analogy when it comes to how you could play this out. There are 2 characters in there: Mydoria and Bakugo, and they both play off of this type of character type you're working on. This is my take on it, but others may see it differently:
Mydoria is the Int > Wis type, he analyses the opponents and situations, comes up with a tactic and then a strategy and executes it. He's memorized every detail he can about various people, read every book and so on. This intelligence gives him the ability to formulate a plan to the most minute of details before he moves.
Bakugo, on the other hand, is the Wis > Int type, his skill comes from an instinctual response to situations. His heart and his emotion drive him rather than his brain. His strategy is hit, hit harder, and if that doesn't work, hit harder from a different direction. He has a "knack" or a "natural talent" when it comes to combat but he doesn't show any type of tactic or strategy from the onset. His fights evolve as he continues to fight, kind of a trial by fire thing.
---
Your character would be of the Bakugo type, and it may look like you're thinking your way through the situation, but you're not. As the RP side of things come to light, when people ask you why you did what you did, you simply respond with things like, "It felt like the right thing to do", "I just needed to win", "I don't know, it's like the weakness just appeared to me", and so on.
Samwise Gamgee. You may not know what makes rain, but you certainly know how to get out of it. Forest Gump is another one. There are many archtypes that fit the bill.
At 8 int, you are slightly below average when it comes to knowledge. Maybe your memory is bad, or you don't lern gud. I know quite a few low-int people who speak clearly and eloquently but don't know squat...we call them politicians :) In all seriousness, having a below average int means, on the most mechanical levels, a lack of knowledge.
16 Wis on the other hand is *WELL* above average and indicates a great dear of "common sense" and old wives tales, as well as a lot of faith. The fundamental difference between intelligence and wisdom is that a high int "knows" while a high wis "believes". To steal from firefly, "Sorta man they're like to send believes hard. Kills and never asks why."
High Wis/Low Int people tend to be a bit simple and more than a little focused. You don't second guess yourself, you "feel" more than you "know", and when you decide, you decide. You're not overburdoned with so much information that you need to think and rethink.
Really fun characters to play :)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Ancient GM, started in '76, have played almost everything at some point or another.
I run/play Mercer-style games, heavy on the RP and interaction, light on the combat-monster and rule-lawyering. The goal is to tell an epic story with the players and the players are as involved in the world building as the GM is. I run and play a very Brechtian style, am huge into RP theory and love discussing improv and offers.
He could be very aware of what goes on around him, but also not sure how to act upon it. Either that or he doesn't make inferences based upon what he might be aware of. I.E: He knows someone lied to him but doesn't know why
Also worth mentioning, 8 intelligence is still pretty good. I don't think you would really have to worry about roleplaying it for the most part, because it's not a huge difference.
He could be very aware of what goes on around him, but also not sure how to act upon it. Either that or he doesn't make inferences based upon what he might be aware of. I.E: He knows someone lied to him but doesn't know why
Also worth mentioning, 8 intelligence is still pretty good. I don't think you would really have to worry about roleplaying it for the most part, because it's not a huge difference.
8 is below average and the worst you can have with point buy or standard array. With 3d6 average is 10.5, with 4d6 drop lowest it's close to 13. It's not a 3, but it is pretty bad by heroic standards. Especially for Int, where most of the people playing are of high intelligence, so their characters are considerably dumber than themselves. That's not to say that an 8 is of the "grog smash gud" variety, but that complex plans are not your strong suit. I feel that characters are defined as much (or moreso) by their weaknesses as their strengths and that you should play up your weaknesses. If I roll well I usually make at least one score drop the highest instead of lowest so that I have a weakness to round out my character.
He could be very aware of what goes on around him, but also not sure how to act upon it. Either that or he doesn't make inferences based upon what he might be aware of. I.E: He knows someone lied to him but doesn't know why
Also worth mentioning, 8 intelligence is still pretty good. I don't think you would really have to worry about roleplaying it for the most part, because it's not a huge difference.
8 is below average and the worst you can have with point buy or standard array. With 3d6 average is 10.5, with 4d6 drop lowest it's close to 13. It's not a 3, but it is pretty bad by heroic standards. Especially for Int, where most of the people playing are of high intelligence, so their characters are considerably dumber than themselves. That's not to say that an 8 is of the "grog smash gud" variety, but that complex plans are not your strong suit. I feel that characters are defined as much (or moreso) by their weaknesses as their strengths and that you should play up your weaknesses. If I roll well I usually make at least one score drop the highest instead of lowest so that I have a weakness to round out my character.
Yes, 8 is below average. But 8 isnt horrendously low.
I know the expected value of rolling for stats, and the deviations of which... I did a statistics project over the summer on it, ironically enough Sidenote: The chance of getting an 18 alone is higher than the chance of getting a 1-7
I was simply saying that while an 8 is a weakness, it isn't a massive one that would really require a lot of thought put into how to roleplay it, especially if the average for a human commoner is 10 and 8 for a normal NPC kobold.
Edit: As for weaknesses defining characters, I think that is somewhat true, but not necessarily required. I guess that's really my point, is that you dont have to go over the top with trying to RP a score that is below average.
I just didn't want to act smarter than I should. The comments here are helping me get a better idea as to how to play him, I do not intend to play him so dumb that he can barely speak but I am coming from playing a 20 INT 16 WIS wizard so I know I can't come up with the same ideas as before. He also has 8 strength haha but that one is much easier to roleplay.
Thanks everyone for your input. I know I haven't been replying to every post but I have read each comment. Very much appreciate your help.
You could play him as indecisive or slow to pick up on things, but as soon as things get heavy a switch is flicked in his brain. In the heat of battle he knows exactly what to do, the fog is lifted and their is no room for doubt. Then, when things calm down, he doesn't even remember what he did or how he did it. It was all intuitive.
Don't forget you can make things like investigation checks or nature checks using Wisdom rather than intelligence if the situation allows. A farmer can make a Nature (wisdom) check to tell where best to plan his crops for example. A Bugbear might make an Investigation (wisdom) check to figure out what's been moved around in his cave, for another example.
Knowledge gained through instruction falls under intelligence, knowledge gained through observation falls under wisdom.
The difference between intelligence and wisdom is very clear and plain as day, once you think about it. Raw intellect is the ability to think with real things which are objective. Architecture, Engineering, Cooking, all these high-end professional things are the stuff of smart people. You hand those jobs to someone out of their element in them, you will have something that will kill you. A highly Intelligent person is who you trust to understand the world of things.
Wisdom is understanding; the ability to think of things that are not entirely objective and quantifiable. Worldly experience, intuition, inference, all of these things are the stuff of sages and other wise men. If someone isn't wise, they'll do things that, in retrospect, seem incredibly stupid but are really just simple mistakes they overlooked; smoking while fixing a gas leak, jump down a hole with no rope or means to return, removing a wedding ring over a sink wide enough to swallow it. A highly wise person is who you trust to understand the world of men and most importantly themselves.
So, a slow but wise person is that; slow, but wise. They understand they're not smart, and work around their dimness by making the best out of every situation they approach. If you'd like me to paint one character I'd play in this fashion for your inspiration, I will:
They are real. They don't trust words, at least not at first, because people can lie or just be wrong, for any reason or no reason at all. In one way or another, they have to see it to believe it; see the tracks of wolves in the woods, see what someone is like, what they do, how they react to things, and how the world is reacting to them, and see how life is with and without certain things. They naturally notice bad ideas and difficult situations, and work around them. The dim sage might not be able to articulate well or follow a certain structure in their thought, but on some base, natural level, they know what they know because it just makes sense to them.
WISdom is different than book-knowledge. Wisdom can be good social skills, good understanding of different cultures and ability to understand many things in general. Wisdom is more like logical thinking.
Wisdom in 5E is perception and intuition. In some ways it is the opposite of logical thinking. Social skills is covered by Charisma. Understanding is covered by Intelligence.
Unlike in previous editions, Wisdom ≠ wise.
A high Wisdom, low Intelligence character might perceive that the person they are talking to is uncomfortable, but might not understand the reaon why (perhaps they've done something unsocial in the other person's culture).
The character might notice scratches in the floor, but not make the leap between them and the secret door that the architect mentioned yesterday.
They might make intuitive leaps but be unable to explain why. "How did you know the architect was actually the cult leader?" "I dunno, I just did."
Wisdom is also the "willpower" stat, judging from the number of fear effects that use a Wisdom saving throw. So your low-intelligtence character could be very centered and self-confident, or maybe just very stubborn.
I, for funzies, created Roger Wilco as a D&D character. His lack of knowledge of the world (a multiple flunky of several janitorial schools) but ability to solve problems (saved the galaxy several times) seems to me like a low INT, high WIS situation. He definitely doesn't have a high CHA since he can never talk his way out of a situation successfully. He's got horrible STR. Other than a high WIS, his DEX is merely acceptable for his ability to dodge (usually followed by hiding) and ability to walk along narrow ledges and between annoying vines that make can one rage at a computer game from all the save/reloads for each pixel he moves.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
My druid has 10 INT and 14 WIS. Which just means he's average intelligent, but I like to play him as someone who "acts and doesn't think" about what he does.
He's really fun to play, tho our barbarian might have a different opinion of my druid's ideas xDD
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Hello everyone,
I was hoping to gain some advice for a new character I'll be playing soon. It is a kobold battle master (fighter). I wanted to play him as very tactful but not entirely sure why his tactics work.
I have 8 Intelligence and 16 Wisdom.
I'm looking for tips on how to play this out. I put a brief backstory under the spoiler to save room in case that helps understand what I'm trying to do with him.
Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions.
Frinkle was a hatchling when he was 'adopted' by Melinda, a cleric that was on a quest to clear a kobold den. Melinda couldn't bring herself to slaying the baby kobold due to her following of Lathander, god of birth and renewal. She convinced the rest of her group to give the little guy a chance. She promised to do her best to teach him a peaceful way of life as it were. And so she retired from adventuring momentarily to raise the young kobold.
She named him Frinkle, which was meant as more of a nickname but Melinda did not realize how quick kobolds were to adopt their name. He wouldn't respond to any other and so it became his. She tried to teach him the ways of her temple, which he understood, if only the very basics. Frinkle was not able to follow the ways of a cleric though and so she got her friend Peruval, to train Frinkle in a more martial style. Frinkle took to it quickly and showed a decent innate skill to aiming a crossbow. With that, he trained every morning.
Eventually Melinda had to part ways and return to her adventuring troupe, she left Frinkle behind with Peruval to continue his training with the promise to return. For the past 10 years, Frinkle has waited at the city gates every morning before his training, eagerly looking at the horizon for the return of his old friend, Melinda.
There is nothing wrong with having a slightly dim character that is also very perceptive. You have to be willing to give up having brilliant plans and ideas though. Well, you CAN but it wouldn't really fit the character.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
My character also has the benefit of being a low INT, high WIS build. How I play it is that she has common sense, remembers experiences in a detailed way, and can speak very well. Anything that would involve actual learning (unless it was something she was fascinated by) would not jibe. Arcana, history, investigation? My negative modifier is an indication that I suck at that, but I always have a clever comment why I suck at it.
I think INTelligence is pure intelligence - things like how many languages you can speak, how much you know about history, how many books you have readed and how much you have studied.
WISdom is different than book-knowledge. Wisdom can be good social skills, good understanding of different cultures and ability to understand many things in general. Wisdom is more like logical thinking.
For example half-orc with with 8 intelligence and 16 Wisdom can be very polite and civilized (WIS 16) but does not know lot about history or does not read well. (INT 8)
I think the key is to play him as cunning, but not smart. He doesn't look at a battlefield and analyze the best tactics, he simply instinctively knows the best way to take down his foe(s).
I also have a low Int, high Wis kobold (rogue in my case). I view it as a difference between book smarts and street smarts. Tactical brilliance however is a book smarts issue. It's why we have military academies to teach it. I would switch your scores around if that's what you are going for.
I love this kind of character, the quirky type that has a low stat you embrace rather than lament.
I'm reminded of My Hero Academia as a current analogy when it comes to how you could play this out. There are 2 characters in there: Mydoria and Bakugo, and they both play off of this type of character type you're working on. This is my take on it, but others may see it differently:
Mydoria is the Int > Wis type, he analyses the opponents and situations, comes up with a tactic and then a strategy and executes it. He's memorized every detail he can about various people, read every book and so on. This intelligence gives him the ability to formulate a plan to the most minute of details before he moves.
Bakugo, on the other hand, is the Wis > Int type, his skill comes from an instinctual response to situations. His heart and his emotion drive him rather than his brain. His strategy is hit, hit harder, and if that doesn't work, hit harder from a different direction. He has a "knack" or a "natural talent" when it comes to combat but he doesn't show any type of tactic or strategy from the onset. His fights evolve as he continues to fight, kind of a trial by fire thing.
---
Your character would be of the Bakugo type, and it may look like you're thinking your way through the situation, but you're not. As the RP side of things come to light, when people ask you why you did what you did, you simply respond with things like, "It felt like the right thing to do", "I just needed to win", "I don't know, it's like the weakness just appeared to me", and so on.
Samwise Gamgee. You may not know what makes rain, but you certainly know how to get out of it. Forest Gump is another one. There are many archtypes that fit the bill.
At 8 int, you are slightly below average when it comes to knowledge. Maybe your memory is bad, or you don't lern gud. I know quite a few low-int people who speak clearly and eloquently but don't know squat...we call them politicians :) In all seriousness, having a below average int means, on the most mechanical levels, a lack of knowledge.
16 Wis on the other hand is *WELL* above average and indicates a great dear of "common sense" and old wives tales, as well as a lot of faith. The fundamental difference between intelligence and wisdom is that a high int "knows" while a high wis "believes". To steal from firefly, "Sorta man they're like to send believes hard. Kills and never asks why."
High Wis/Low Int people tend to be a bit simple and more than a little focused. You don't second guess yourself, you "feel" more than you "know", and when you decide, you decide. You're not overburdoned with so much information that you need to think and rethink.
Really fun characters to play :)
Ancient GM, started in '76, have played almost everything at some point or another.
I run/play Mercer-style games, heavy on the RP and interaction, light on the combat-monster and rule-lawyering. The goal is to tell an epic story with the players and the players are as involved in the world building as the GM is. I run and play a very Brechtian style, am huge into RP theory and love discussing improv and offers.
He could be very aware of what goes on around him, but also not sure how to act upon it. Either that or he doesn't make inferences based upon what he might be aware of. I.E: He knows someone lied to him but doesn't know why
Also worth mentioning, 8 intelligence is still pretty good. I don't think you would really have to worry about roleplaying it for the most part, because it's not a huge difference.
8 is below average and the worst you can have with point buy or standard array. With 3d6 average is 10.5, with 4d6 drop lowest it's close to 13. It's not a 3, but it is pretty bad by heroic standards. Especially for Int, where most of the people playing are of high intelligence, so their characters are considerably dumber than themselves. That's not to say that an 8 is of the "grog smash gud" variety, but that complex plans are not your strong suit. I feel that characters are defined as much (or moreso) by their weaknesses as their strengths and that you should play up your weaknesses. If I roll well I usually make at least one score drop the highest instead of lowest so that I have a weakness to round out my character.
Yes, 8 is below average. But 8 isnt horrendously low.
I know the expected value of rolling for stats, and the deviations of which... I did a statistics project over the summer on it, ironically enough
Sidenote: The chance of getting an 18 alone is higher than the chance of getting a 1-7
I was simply saying that while an 8 is a weakness, it isn't a massive one that would really require a lot of thought put into how to roleplay it, especially if the average for a human commoner is 10 and 8 for a normal NPC kobold.
Edit: As for weaknesses defining characters, I think that is somewhat true, but not necessarily required. I guess that's really my point, is that you dont have to go over the top with trying to RP a score that is below average.
Intelligence is knowing how to pick the door lock or use lifting force against the hinges to open the door...
Wisdom is checking to see if it is locked in the first place...
I just didn't want to act smarter than I should. The comments here are helping me get a better idea as to how to play him, I do not intend to play him so dumb that he can barely speak but I am coming from playing a 20 INT 16 WIS wizard so I know I can't come up with the same ideas as before. He also has 8 strength haha but that one is much easier to roleplay.
Thanks everyone for your input. I know I haven't been replying to every post but I have read each comment. Very much appreciate your help.
You could play him as indecisive or slow to pick up on things, but as soon as things get heavy a switch is flicked in his brain. In the heat of battle he knows exactly what to do, the fog is lifted and their is no room for doubt. Then, when things calm down, he doesn't even remember what he did or how he did it. It was all intuitive.
Don't forget you can make things like investigation checks or nature checks using Wisdom rather than intelligence if the situation allows. A farmer can make a Nature (wisdom) check to tell where best to plan his crops for example. A Bugbear might make an Investigation (wisdom) check to figure out what's been moved around in his cave, for another example.
Knowledge gained through instruction falls under intelligence, knowledge gained through observation falls under wisdom.
Another way to play him is to play him with heavy reliance on his training....
A smart (int) warrior might be able to analyze an opponent mid-fight , and come up with a new tactic to defeat him.
A wise (wis) warrior might remember his training, and rely on practiced tactics to overcome a foe.
The difference between intelligence and wisdom is very clear and plain as day, once you think about it. Raw intellect is the ability to think with real things which are objective. Architecture, Engineering, Cooking, all these high-end professional things are the stuff of smart people. You hand those jobs to someone out of their element in them, you will have something that will kill you. A highly Intelligent person is who you trust to understand the world of things.
Wisdom is understanding; the ability to think of things that are not entirely objective and quantifiable. Worldly experience, intuition, inference, all of these things are the stuff of sages and other wise men. If someone isn't wise, they'll do things that, in retrospect, seem incredibly stupid but are really just simple mistakes they overlooked; smoking while fixing a gas leak, jump down a hole with no rope or means to return, removing a wedding ring over a sink wide enough to swallow it. A highly wise person is who you trust to understand the world of men and most importantly themselves.
So, a slow but wise person is that; slow, but wise. They understand they're not smart, and work around their dimness by making the best out of every situation they approach. If you'd like me to paint one character I'd play in this fashion for your inspiration, I will:
They are real. They don't trust words, at least not at first, because people can lie or just be wrong, for any reason or no reason at all. In one way or another, they have to see it to believe it; see the tracks of wolves in the woods, see what someone is like, what they do, how they react to things, and how the world is reacting to them, and see how life is with and without certain things. They naturally notice bad ideas and difficult situations, and work around them. The dim sage might not be able to articulate well or follow a certain structure in their thought, but on some base, natural level, they know what they know because it just makes sense to them.
This helped me a great deal
Wisdom in 5E is perception and intuition. In some ways it is the opposite of logical thinking. Social skills is covered by Charisma. Understanding is covered by Intelligence.
Unlike in previous editions, Wisdom ≠ wise.
A high Wisdom, low Intelligence character might perceive that the person they are talking to is uncomfortable, but might not understand the reaon why (perhaps they've done something unsocial in the other person's culture).
The character might notice scratches in the floor, but not make the leap between them and the secret door that the architect mentioned yesterday.
They might make intuitive leaps but be unable to explain why. "How did you know the architect was actually the cult leader?" "I dunno, I just did."
Wisdom is also the "willpower" stat, judging from the number of fear effects that use a Wisdom saving throw. So your low-intelligtence character could be very centered and self-confident, or maybe just very stubborn.
I, for funzies, created Roger Wilco as a D&D character. His lack of knowledge of the world (a multiple flunky of several janitorial schools) but ability to solve problems (saved the galaxy several times) seems to me like a low INT, high WIS situation. He definitely doesn't have a high CHA since he can never talk his way out of a situation successfully. He's got horrible STR. Other than a high WIS, his DEX is merely acceptable for his ability to dodge (usually followed by hiding) and ability to walk along narrow ledges and between annoying vines that make can one rage at a computer game from all the save/reloads for each pixel he moves.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
My druid has 10 INT and 14 WIS. Which just means he's average intelligent, but I like to play him as someone who "acts and doesn't think" about what he does.
He's really fun to play, tho our barbarian might have a different opinion of my druid's ideas xDD