Having a think about different spells and how they are sometimes worded with a slight hint (sarcasm) of ambiguity, can that wording be used to your advantage?
Create-or-destroy-water - Destroy Water. You destroy up to 10 gallons of water in an open container within range. Alternatively, you destroy fog in a 30-foot cube within range.
Specifically the Destroy part of this spell, would a creature/person/enemy be classed as an open container if they have a mouth? I mean how much water is in the average body 60-70%, 10 gallons is a quite a bit isn't it? A 1st level spell that can desiccate an enemy on the spot would be quite cool.
To be fair you could also use the create side to drown an enemy by filling their lungs with water!
Can anybody come up with other creative ways to use spells, that may with a little DM negotiation be allowed to be used?
Gust of wind and a hang glider, might not be able to take off using it but some extra distance or lift could be possible.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
I feel like every couple of months somebody has the "Create or Destroy Water Instakill" idea. I get the thought process... I don't think there's anybody who didn't at least entertain the idea when they saw it. But the "game" aspect of D&D makes it very hard to be too creative in a way that breaks the balance. Like... at that point you could always say, "Hey, can I use Druidcraft to make a dandelion grow inside someone's skull and give them an aneurysm?"
I wouldn't say that that is a particularly accurate general rule, though I agree with the sentiment it is getting at. Magic Missile would be an exception for it right at level 1, and I'm not sure that creating unwritten rules is very helpful when exceptions are so easily found. A better general rule would probably be "spells only do what they say they do," and the line that a DM will draw around how "what they do" interacts with the world and other creatures in creative ways is ultimately going to need to be an exercise of common sense (it means "water", not creatures/substances with moisture content), game balance (no level 1 auto-kill spells plz), and DM discretion.
While the destroy part of might be a bit contested since it’s a 1st level insta kill, the create part might work! Since all it does is put a bunch of water in someone’s lungs. There is many other easy ways to do that, while there isn’t a lot of ways to suck all the moisture out of someone’s body, unless they are already dead.
Clearly the OPEN CONTAINER aspect of the create/destroy water is important. I do not think anyone would view the insides of the human body as an open container.
I thought of finding myself in a situation where I was unarmed and near an enemy. I have Fog Cloud and Form Water. I'm a Rogue with low level Sorcerer Spells. So I Cast Fog Cloud and use Form Water to create a dagger.
Then sneak attack.
Is this a legit use of the spell Form Water? If so, what are the properties of an Ice Dagger? Is it a standard dagger, a +1, does it do frost damage too.
I thought of finding myself in a situation where I was unarmed and near an enemy. I have Fog Cloud and Form Water. I'm a Rogue with low level Sorcerer Spells. So I Cast Fog Cloud and use Form Water to create a dagger.
Then sneak attack.
Is this a legit use of the spell Form Water? If so, what are the properties of an Ice Dagger? Is it a standard dagger, a +1, does it do frost damage too.
Likewise, could you make a an Ice Key?
This might be obvious, I'm pretty new to this.
Much of this is DM discretion. A Dagger is a simple weapon, and the spell for Shape Water says simple objects. I'd absolutely let someone create and shape it into a dagger, club, mace, etc since a lot of those shapes are pretty straight forward. I definitely would never allow it to be + anything or magical though. Mainly because now every single enemy out there is now taking Shape Water to create an abundance of magical weapons. It'd also ruin the economy of a lot of magical weapons at low to mid levels.
I'd let you create the shape of a key and probably roll percentile to see if it worked on the lock. If you had picked the lock previously make it slightly easier to create a working key(we're talking from a 2% chance to a 4% chance), but if you've already picked the lock the point would generally be moot.
Shape water can certainly form an improvised weapon that resembles a dagger... less airtight whether it can also create an actual dagger. Depending on your DM , that may or may not be a big deal for Sneak Attack. But there’s no reason to think a simple ice shape would be a +1 anything, or even function as a magic weapon.
But do note that forming an ice dagger takes two rounds (one to shape, one to freeze) on top of the round for fog cloud, so its viability for an ambush is probably more theatrical and theoretical than actual.
Having a think about different spells and how they are sometimes worded with a slight hint (sarcasm) of ambiguity, can that wording be used to your advantage?
Create-or-destroy-water - Destroy Water. You destroy up to 10 gallons of water in an open container within range. Alternatively, you destroy fog in a 30-foot cube within range.
Specifically the Destroy part of this spell, would a creature/person/enemy be classed as an open container if they have a mouth? I mean how much water is in the average body 60-70%, 10 gallons is a quite a bit isn't it? A 1st level spell that can desiccate an enemy on the spot would be quite cool.
To be fair you could also use the create side to drown an enemy by filling their lungs with water!
Can anybody come up with other creative ways to use spells, that may with a little DM negotiation be allowed to be used?
From Within Chaos Comes Order!
Gust of wind and a hang glider, might not be able to take off using it but some extra distance or lift could be possible.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
I don’t think most dms are fine with 1st level autokill spells.
When players get creative.
I feel like every couple of months somebody has the "Create or Destroy Water Instakill" idea. I get the thought process... I don't think there's anybody who didn't at least entertain the idea when they saw it. But the "game" aspect of D&D makes it very hard to be too creative in a way that breaks the balance. Like... at that point you could always say, "Hey, can I use Druidcraft to make a dandelion grow inside someone's skull and give them an aneurysm?"
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
"Don't swallow the watermellon seeds, they'll grow inside you!" "Pshhh, that's just a myth...hnnnggghhH!"
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Does the spell allow you to make an attack or allow an enemy to make a saving throw?
No?
Then that spell cannot be used to damage an enemy.
General rule.
DCI: 3319125026
I wouldn't say that that is a particularly accurate general rule, though I agree with the sentiment it is getting at. Magic Missile would be an exception for it right at level 1, and I'm not sure that creating unwritten rules is very helpful when exceptions are so easily found. A better general rule would probably be "spells only do what they say they do," and the line that a DM will draw around how "what they do" interacts with the world and other creatures in creative ways is ultimately going to need to be an exercise of common sense (it means "water", not creatures/substances with moisture content), game balance (no level 1 auto-kill spells plz), and DM discretion.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
OK, roll for damage. What, no damage dice? Ok, cool.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
While the destroy part of might be a bit contested since it’s a 1st level insta kill, the create part might work! Since all it does is put a bunch of water in someone’s lungs. There is many other easy ways to do that, while there isn’t a lot of ways to suck all the moisture out of someone’s body, unless they are already dead.
When players get creative.
Clearly the OPEN CONTAINER aspect of the create/destroy water is important. I do not think anyone would view the insides of the human body as an open container.
What about the nose and mouth? The nose is usually open and it is connected to the lungs. It also can contain liquids inside it
When players get creative.
in other words your saying no fun at the table lol j/k
so if there is a lever that opens a concealed trapdoor someone steps onto you take no damage from it if the lever is pulled with mage hand?
another cool spell is shield of faith stops invisible nonsense for the cost of a 1st level spell slot and your bonus action.
enlarge/reduce use on a locked door/window poof easy access to the next room
I thought of finding myself in a situation where I was unarmed and near an enemy. I have Fog Cloud and Form Water. I'm a Rogue with low level Sorcerer Spells. So I Cast Fog Cloud and use Form Water to create a dagger.
Then sneak attack.
Is this a legit use of the spell Form Water? If so, what are the properties of an Ice Dagger? Is it a standard dagger, a +1, does it do frost damage too.
Likewise, could you make a an Ice Key?
This might be obvious, I'm pretty new to this.
Much of this is DM discretion. A Dagger is a simple weapon, and the spell for Shape Water says simple objects. I'd absolutely let someone create and shape it into a dagger, club, mace, etc since a lot of those shapes are pretty straight forward. I definitely would never allow it to be + anything or magical though. Mainly because now every single enemy out there is now taking Shape Water to create an abundance of magical weapons. It'd also ruin the economy of a lot of magical weapons at low to mid levels.
I'd let you create the shape of a key and probably roll percentile to see if it worked on the lock. If you had picked the lock previously make it slightly easier to create a working key(we're talking from a 2% chance to a 4% chance), but if you've already picked the lock the point would generally be moot.
Shape water can certainly form an improvised weapon that resembles a dagger... less airtight whether it can also create an actual dagger. Depending on your DM , that may or may not be a big deal for Sneak Attack. But there’s no reason to think a simple ice shape would be a +1 anything, or even function as a magic weapon.
But do note that forming an ice dagger takes two rounds (one to shape, one to freeze) on top of the round for fog cloud, so its viability for an ambush is probably more theatrical and theoretical than actual.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
I would not allow you to use shape water to make any sort of weapon.
It's made of ice at best. Ice is fragile, especially ice thing enough to be used as a stabbing weapon...
At best, you could make an improvised weapon of ice that deals 1d4 bludgeoning and shatters on impact.
The body is not a container it is a vessel
It isn't the spell doing the damage in that case, it's the fall.
Presumably there'd be some sort of save (Dex) involved in that case.
DCI: 3319125026
Muwahahahahahaaaa.
Good DM me: Wow! What good Ideas! I'll let my players get away with it for fun's sake!
Evil DM me: Exploit the rules yourself, and now that you are aware of the strategies, use them to the monsters advantage!