For a multi-grappler, managing Prone on two, three, or even four enemies can be a hassle. I like Grappler in certain situations when there's room for it, and a Simic Hybrid grappler is one of them! Grapplers that are pure- or mostly-Fighter based often have quite a bit of room for feats, so Grappler can have a role to play so that you don't have to use one attack to grab an enemy, and then another to Prone them before you get down to doing damage. Not to mention that again, Prone is great for your frontline, but is a debuff for your backline's ranged attacks, so isn't always appropriate for a Grappler who's trying to lock down a shared target.
For a multi-grappler, managing Prone on two, three, or even four enemies can be a hassle. I like Grappler in certain situations when there's room for it, and a Simic Hybrid grappler is one of them! Grapplers that are pure- or mostly-Fighter based often have quite a bit of room for feats, so Grappler can have a role to play so that you don't have to use one attack to grab an enemy, and then another to Prone them before you get down to doing damage. Not to mention that again, Prone is great for your frontline, but is a debuff for your backline's ranged attacks, so isn't always appropriate for a Grappler who's trying to lock down a shared target.
Grappling doesn't do much for the ranged person... Who cares if they run? Most ranged stuff is 90 ft+ distance.
If you find your party split by more than 90ft you need to rethink strategy.
Plus getting up from prone takes half your movement so it's effectively halving their speed.
Grappling makes the enemy stay where the ranged person can shoot it, so that it doesn't run up and get into melee with them. That's literally the whole point of grappling: you isolate an enemy where you and the party want them, so that they cannot move.
This conversation seems like it's becoming more about your prejudices about certain playstyles being "never worth it", and less about the actual effectiveness of classes and features that support those styles. I get it, you don't think crits are meaningful, and you don't like grappling. (Well, not just "you" OG, but in general a lot of these "Champion is garbage" posts seem to come down to "doing X isn't as good as different-role Y").
Grappling makes the enemy stay where the ranged person can shoot it, so that it doesn't run up and get into melee with them. That's literally the whole point of grappling: you isolate an enemy where you and the party want them, so that they cannot move.
This conversation seems like it's becoming more about your prejudices about certain playstyles being "never worth it", and less about the actual effectiveness of classes and features that support those styles. I get it, you don't think crits are meaningful, and you don't like grappling. (Well, not just "you" OG, but in general a lot of these "Champion is garbage" posts seem to come down to "doing X isn't as good as different-role Y").
Champion is terrible because it's design philosophy and actual mechanics are garbage. Its simple but simply terrible.
Grappler is bad because so many other feats give you better options so it's a not good idea to give up one of the many better options to waste it on such a terrible feat.
So they both are bad because they fail at what I believe they were designed to do.
So yes I dislike them for similar reasons as they are both traps for people who don't know better
I think we all can agree that Champion seems underwhelming when compared to other martial archetypes. However, to say it's horrible is outright misleading and harmful.
Also, grappling is a very effective and important technique to utilize; a party I played with was very difficult for our DM to challenge because my character was a janky AC/jack-of-all-roles build and I'd block hallways so our backline could pummel whatever was past me. He asked for advice, and I pointed out that my character was somewhat vulnerable to being shoved and grappled (no Athletics/Acrobatics prof). One ogre later, he had dislodged my roadblock to let a squad of hobgoblins wreak havoc.
But I digress. A Grappler Champion is quite effective at scoring crits and controling the battlefield. Such a build grappling grants the main advantages of the grapple/prone combo while both using 1 less attack to do so and not hindering your allied ranged characters; grappled targets also cannot run behind full cover, where allies cannot target them. Pinning ought to be reserved for spellcasters to deny their spells' somantic components. Improved initiative lets the character move into position and snare a prime target more effectively.
Let's look at a level 12 build:
Half-orc Champion fighter, 17 Str/14 Dex/14 Con; heavy armor and a 1-handed d8 weapon of choice; Superior Technique (Grappling Strike) @1st, Grappler @4th, Crusher/Piercer/Slasher (Str) @6th, Tavern Brawler (Str) @8th, Dueling/Defense @10th, Skill Expert (Str, 2*prof Athletics) @12th; remaining ASIs planned to be +2 Con.
I think we all can agree that Champion seems underwhelming when compared to other martial archetypes. However, to say it's horrible is outright misleading and harmful.
Also, grappling is a very effective and important technique to utilize; a party I played with was very difficult for our DM to challenge because my character was a janky AC/jack-of-all-roles build and I'd block hallways so our backline could pummel whatever was past me. He asked for advice, and I pointed out that my character was somewhat vulnerable to being shoved and grappled (no Athletics/Acrobatics prof). One ogre later, and he had dislodged my roadblock to let a squad of hobgoblins wreak havoc.
I think 'underwhelming' is a fair statement. Personally, I think the Remarkable Athlete feature should add to the skills in question as a form of Expertise rather than 1/2 Proficiency because athletics is one of the things this subclass is supposed to do.
One of the issues with ALL of the subclasses is the data showing that many campaigns don't make it to the higher levels. If this is true, then the idea of waiting for that really cool high-level ability is a ripoff. Barbarians have the best capstone feature of the whole game but I don't mind multiclassing Barbs because I might not see 20.
The Champion REALLY suffers from this as the second fighting style is nice but not worth a whole slot at 10, and Superior Critical is wonderful but too late. The level 18 ability is the same way.
IMHO many of the classes and subclasses need a pass with an eye towards making them more complete by level 12 or so and then making everything after that the cherry on top
I think we all can agree that Champion seems underwhelming when compared to other martial archetypes. However, to say it's horrible is outright misleading and harmful.
Also, grappling is a very effective and important technique to utilize; a party I played with was very difficult for our DM to challenge because my character was a janky AC/jack-of-all-roles build and I'd block hallways so our backline could pummel whatever was past me. He asked for advice, and I pointed out that my character was somewhat vulnerable to being shoved and grappled (no Athletics/Acrobatics prof). One ogre later, he had dislodged my roadblock to let a squad of hobgoblins wreak havoc.
But I digress. A Grappler Champion is quite effective at scoring crits and controling the battlefield. Such a build grappling grants the main advantages of the grapple/prone combo while both using 1 less attack to do so and not hindering your allied ranged characters; pinning ought to be reserved for spellcasters to deny their spells' somantic components. Improved initiative lets the character move into position and snare a prime target more effectively.
Let's look at a level 12 build:
Half-orc Champion fighter, 17 Str/14 Dex/14 Con; heavy armor and a 1-handed d8 weapon of choice; Superior Technique (Grappling Strike) @1st, Grappler @4th, Crusher/Piercer/Slasher (Str) @6th, Tavern Brawler (Str) @8th, Dueling/Defense @10th, Skill Expert (Str, 2*prof Athletics) @12th; remaining ASIs planned to be +2 Con.
The character as a whole is not horrible only because a sublass-less Fighter is not horrible. Remarkable Athlete doesn't come on until level 7, grappling isn't a big deal, and adding half your proficiency bonus is not exactly making you the champion (sorry, had to) of grapplers. Barbarians gain advantage on shoves and grapple checks.
When players are doing these types of gymnastics trying to shoehorn some niche scenario where the subclass shines... it's a bad subclass. Again, this is not judging what the Fighter class brings to the table. It's only judging what the subclass adds to the base class. It's bad.
I think we all can agree that Champion seems underwhelming when compared to other martial archetypes. However, to say it's horrible is outright misleading and harmful.
Also, grappling is a very effective and important technique to utilize; a party I played with was very difficult for our DM to challenge because my character was a janky AC/jack-of-all-roles build and I'd block hallways so our backline could pummel whatever was past me. He asked for advice, and I pointed out that my character was somewhat vulnerable to being shoved and grappled (no Athletics/Acrobatics prof). One ogre later, and he had dislodged my roadblock to let a squad of hobgoblins wreak havoc.
I think 'underwhelming' is a fair statement. Personally, I think the Remarkable Athlete feature should add to the skills in question as a form of Expertise rather than 1/2 Proficiency because athletics is one of the things this subclass is supposed to do.
One of the issues with ALL of the subclasses is the data showing that many campaigns don't make it to the higher levels. If this is true, then the idea of waiting for that really cool high-level ability is a ripoff. Barbarians have the best capstone feature of the whole game but I don't mind multiclassing Barbs because I might not see 20.
The Champion REALLY suffers from this as the second fighting style is nice but not worth a whole slot at 10, and Superior Critical is wonderful but too late. The level 18 ability is the same way.
IMHO many of the classes and subclasses need a pass with an eye towards making them more complete by level 12 or so and then making everything after that the cherry on top
Agreed, Remarkable Athlete should be expertise (double), not half. It should also come right at level 3. Give Improved Critical + Remarkable Athlete (expertise) at level 3, and now you have something. Bump everything else up - give them an additional fighting style at level 7, superior critical at 10, etc. and come up with something else as a capstone.
I think we all can agree that Champion seems underwhelming when compared to other martial archetypes. However, to say it's horrible is outright misleading and harmful.
Also, grappling is a very effective and important technique to utilize; a party I played with was very difficult for our DM to challenge because my character was a janky AC/jack-of-all-roles build and I'd block hallways so our backline could pummel whatever was past me. He asked for advice, and I pointed out that my character was somewhat vulnerable to being shoved and grappled (no Athletics/Acrobatics prof). One ogre later, and he had dislodged my roadblock to let a squad of hobgoblins wreak havoc.
I think 'underwhelming' is a fair statement. Personally, I think the Remarkable Athlete feature should add to the skills in question as a form of Expertise rather than 1/2 Proficiency because athletics is one of the things this subclass is supposed to do.
One of the issues with ALL of the subclasses is the data showing that many campaigns don't make it to the higher levels. If this is true, then the idea of waiting for that really cool high-level ability is a ripoff. Barbarians have the best capstone feature of the whole game but I don't mind multiclassing Barbs because I might not see 20.
The Champion REALLY suffers from this as the second fighting style is nice but not worth a whole slot at 10, and Superior Critical is wonderful but too late. The level 18 ability is the same way.
IMHO many of the classes and subclasses need a pass with an eye towards making them more complete by level 12 or so and then making everything after that the cherry on top
Agreed, Remarkable Athlete should be expertise (double), not half. It should also come right at level 3. Give Improved Critical + Remarkable Athlete (expertise) at level 3, and now you have something. Bump everything else up - give them an additional fighting style at level 7, superior critical at 10, etc. and come up with something else as a capstone.
Yeah, one of the issues with having classes and subclasses coming out piecemeal is that many of the older ones seem weak by comparison. Gloomstalker Ranger is a good example. Many of the later Barb subs have control, survivability, or both. A couple of the new Rogue subs are baller and the Rune Knight Fighter sub is obnoxiously powerful.
It's like the writers play the game, see what they want isn't available, then make it up themselves. The thing is, many have all the good stuff and no drawbacks.
If you constantly try to fix "the WORST", then you either make it less worse (but still the WORST) or you make it better and something else becomes the WORST. As long as people continue to think in terms of this is the BEST (maybe nerf it) and this is the WORST (definitely improve it), it creates a never ending cycle which leads to power creep.
No, it just leads to the extreme outliers getting fixed. Not even players of competitive games think like this, let alone co-op games. If anything's produced power creep it's been new player options, not fixing the weak ones (Beast Master still isn't amazing, just ok) or nerfing the overpowered ones.
Fighters are immensely versatile because they get all those ASI's or Feats as they level up...The Champion is fine, because not everyone that plays wants to make a DPR monster.
You could make this exact same argument for a subclass that literally does nothing.
If you can reliably crit once per turn, with Slasher or Crusher instead of Piercer, that is a VERY unique take on recreating a Marshall leader-type without Battlemaster or Bard or whatever.
You'd need Elven Accuracy and a constant source of advantage just to have a 47% chance (2 attacks) or 61% chance (3 attacks) before 11th level. That's too much min-maxing to still qualify as beginner-friendly (most people can't even work out those odds) and you could still do that build with other subclasses. Yes, your chances drop to 27% or 37%, but you gain a much wider range of control tools that you can use on command instead of when the dice favor you.
Grappler feat should allow pinning as an attack (not an action) and not restrain you when you do it.
Dear god no. Grappling and shoving are already broken enough and so is having easy permanent advantage. Besides, putting someone in a chokehold while you're surrounded by their buddies is not what I'd call a big-brain strat. The fact that it makes you easier to hit is working as intended in my opinion.
My main point was that grappling doesn't really help the ranged person much either... Sure they can't move but I mean there are better builds for that (sentinel + PAM) that do more for you in general.
So many more feats help a grappler build...
Skill Expert (Expertise Athletics) Fighter Initiate (Unarmed Fighting Style), Tavern Brawler, Martial Adept (Grapple Strike), Magic Initiate (Guidance/Long strider), Tough (You are grappling the thing so it's going to hit you)
Just to clarify the concept of power creep, since it came up…
It’s all about new content. If weaker content is added to the mix, the power level stays the same because you still have access to the old content. But every little nugget of something stronger makes the power creep up, because now everyone has access to the new (stronger) content.
So, because the power level can only go in one direction— new content over time inevitably results in power creep.
My main point was that grappling doesn't really help the ranged person much either... Sure they can't move but I mean there are better builds for that (sentinel + PAM) that do more for you in general.
So many more feats help a grappler build...
Skill Expert (Expertise Athletics) Fighter Initiate (Unarmed Fighting Style), Tavern Brawler, Martial Adept (Grapple Strike), Magic Initiate (Guidance/Long strider), Tough (You are grappling the thing so it's going to hit you)
I would not put grappler above any of those
I would place Lucky and Mobile over Magic Initiate (casting those spells means actions not making checks to grapple or attacking). Unarmed Fighting's 1d4 auto-damage is cute, but it shouldn't be the focus of taking that style; Superior Technique to grab Grappling Strike or pair it with Martial Adept for an extra die per rest is better IMO. ASI +2 Con is generally better than Tough as Con saves tend to be quite critical to succeed and you'd still get +1 HP/level.
Each feat offers something; Grappler gets special mention because it's a reliable advantage outlet that doesn't screw with your other party members. This directly complements Champions as 10% crit chance goes up to 19%, making their primary gimmick more reliable. Same with Crusher, GWM, Piercer and Slasher; they capitalize on the crits.
It's not unheard of for BMs to grab Martial Adept, as it directly improves what they want to do with their subclass. Same with Magic Initiate, Ritual Caster or Warcaster for EKs.
Champion fighter with 1 level dip for warlock dao patron for once per turn bludgeon damage on hit.
Invest in crusher and slasher feat. Human variant can have this done at total level 5-6 depending on if you want extra attack first. Elf/half elf of can be used for elven accuracy but take much longer to set up.
make use of two weapon fighting or double bladed scimitar if your DM lets you.
now you can choose to hold your bludgeon damage while crit fishing. You can now deal slashing damage AND crushing damage on the same critical hit.
makes your party much more effective, somewhat reliably. This debuff bypasses Legendary saves. You can also slightly shore up your utility with warlock cantrips and spells.
Hmmm, that’s not a terrible idea! A Finesse/Elven Accuracy weapon which can attack with GWM for baseline damage on 3+ attacks, frequent crits that leave them debuffed to attack with disadvantage and have advantage on attacks against them, decent AC 20 in Plate, +1 from revenant blade, +1 from Defensive style… comes together with 3 or 4 feats by Fighter 12 and fully realized by 14…
Hmmm, that’s not a terrible idea! A Finesse/Elven Accuracy weapon which can attack with GWM for baseline damage on 3+ attacks, frequent crits that leave them debuffed to attack with disadvantage and have advantage on attacks against them, decent AC 20 in Plate, +1 from revenant blade, +1 from Defensive style… comes together with 3 or 4 feats by Fighter 12 and fully realized by 14…
I like it!
The first part of Great Weapon Master for the bonus action attack only requires a melee weapon. The second part of GWM requires a weapon with the Heavy property. Double bladed scimitar has the two handed and a special property for the bonus action attack, but is lacking the heavy property. So no -5 to hit and +10 damage.
Is there a weapon with both finesse and heavy properties? Seems like those are opposite concepts.
Worth noting, Elvin Accuracy does not work for strength-based attacks. It seems the developers were cognitive not to allow the funny business of marrying Reckless Attack with Elvin Accuracy.
Worth noting, Elvin Accuracy does not work for strength-based attacks. It seems the developers were cognitive not to allow the funny business of marrying Reckless Attack with Elvin Accuracy.
Funny enough if you get hexblade and barb somehow you could do that... But would require some good rolls.
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For a multi-grappler, managing Prone on two, three, or even four enemies can be a hassle. I like Grappler in certain situations when there's room for it, and a Simic Hybrid grappler is one of them! Grapplers that are pure- or mostly-Fighter based often have quite a bit of room for feats, so Grappler can have a role to play so that you don't have to use one attack to grab an enemy, and then another to Prone them before you get down to doing damage. Not to mention that again, Prone is great for your frontline, but is a debuff for your backline's ranged attacks, so isn't always appropriate for a Grappler who's trying to lock down a shared target.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Grappling doesn't do much for the ranged person... Who cares if they run? Most ranged stuff is 90 ft+ distance.
If you find your party split by more than 90ft you need to rethink strategy.
Plus getting up from prone takes half your movement so it's effectively halving their speed.
Grappler is literally never worth it
Grappling makes the enemy stay where the ranged person can shoot it, so that it doesn't run up and get into melee with them. That's literally the whole point of grappling: you isolate an enemy where you and the party want them, so that they cannot move.
This conversation seems like it's becoming more about your prejudices about certain playstyles being "never worth it", and less about the actual effectiveness of classes and features that support those styles. I get it, you don't think crits are meaningful, and you don't like grappling. (Well, not just "you" OG, but in general a lot of these "Champion is garbage" posts seem to come down to "doing X isn't as good as different-role Y").
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Champion is terrible because it's design philosophy and actual mechanics are garbage. Its simple but simply terrible.
Grappler is bad because so many other feats give you better options so it's a not good idea to give up one of the many better options to waste it on such a terrible feat.
So they both are bad because they fail at what I believe they were designed to do.
So yes I dislike them for similar reasons as they are both traps for people who don't know better
I think we all can agree that Champion seems underwhelming when compared to other martial archetypes. However, to say it's horrible is outright misleading and harmful.
Also, grappling is a very effective and important technique to utilize; a party I played with was very difficult for our DM to challenge because my character was a janky AC/jack-of-all-roles build and I'd block hallways so our backline could pummel whatever was past me. He asked for advice, and I pointed out that my character was somewhat vulnerable to being shoved and grappled (no Athletics/Acrobatics prof). One ogre later, he had dislodged my roadblock to let a squad of hobgoblins wreak havoc.
But I digress. A Grappler Champion is quite effective at scoring crits and controling the battlefield. Such a build grappling grants the main advantages of the grapple/prone combo while both using 1 less attack to do so and not hindering your allied ranged characters; grappled targets also cannot run behind full cover, where allies cannot target them. Pinning ought to be reserved for spellcasters to deny their spells' somantic components. Improved initiative lets the character move into position and snare a prime target more effectively.
Let's look at a level 12 build:
Half-orc Champion fighter, 17 Str/14 Dex/14 Con; heavy armor and a 1-handed d8 weapon of choice; Superior Technique (Grappling Strike) @1st, Grappler @4th, Crusher/Piercer/Slasher (Str) @6th, Tavern Brawler (Str) @8th, Dueling/Defense @10th, Skill Expert (Str, 2*prof Athletics) @12th; remaining ASIs planned to be +2 Con.
I think 'underwhelming' is a fair statement. Personally, I think the Remarkable Athlete feature should add to the skills in question as a form of Expertise rather than 1/2 Proficiency because athletics is one of the things this subclass is supposed to do.
One of the issues with ALL of the subclasses is the data showing that many campaigns don't make it to the higher levels. If this is true, then the idea of waiting for that really cool high-level ability is a ripoff. Barbarians have the best capstone feature of the whole game but I don't mind multiclassing Barbs because I might not see 20.
The Champion REALLY suffers from this as the second fighting style is nice but not worth a whole slot at 10, and Superior Critical is wonderful but too late. The level 18 ability is the same way.
IMHO many of the classes and subclasses need a pass with an eye towards making them more complete by level 12 or so and then making everything after that the cherry on top
The character as a whole is not horrible only because a sublass-less Fighter is not horrible. Remarkable Athlete doesn't come on until level 7, grappling isn't a big deal, and adding half your proficiency bonus is not exactly making you the champion (sorry, had to) of grapplers. Barbarians gain advantage on shoves and grapple checks.
When players are doing these types of gymnastics trying to shoehorn some niche scenario where the subclass shines... it's a bad subclass. Again, this is not judging what the Fighter class brings to the table. It's only judging what the subclass adds to the base class. It's bad.
Agreed, Remarkable Athlete should be expertise (double), not half. It should also come right at level 3. Give Improved Critical + Remarkable Athlete (expertise) at level 3, and now you have something. Bump everything else up - give them an additional fighting style at level 7, superior critical at 10, etc. and come up with something else as a capstone.
Yeah, one of the issues with having classes and subclasses coming out piecemeal is that many of the older ones seem weak by comparison. Gloomstalker Ranger is a good example. Many of the later Barb subs have control, survivability, or both. A couple of the new Rogue subs are baller and the Rune Knight Fighter sub is obnoxiously powerful.
It's like the writers play the game, see what they want isn't available, then make it up themselves. The thing is, many have all the good stuff and no drawbacks.
Grappler feat should allow pinning as an attack (not an action) and not restrain you when you do it.
No, it just leads to the extreme outliers getting fixed. Not even players of competitive games think like this, let alone co-op games. If anything's produced power creep it's been new player options, not fixing the weak ones (Beast Master still isn't amazing, just ok) or nerfing the overpowered ones.
You could make this exact same argument for a subclass that literally does nothing.
You'd need Elven Accuracy and a constant source of advantage just to have a 47% chance (2 attacks) or 61% chance (3 attacks) before 11th level. That's too much min-maxing to still qualify as beginner-friendly (most people can't even work out those odds) and you could still do that build with other subclasses. Yes, your chances drop to 27% or 37%, but you gain a much wider range of control tools that you can use on command instead of when the dice favor you.
The fact that it doesn't screw them over the way shoving prone would is pretty significant.
Dear god no. Grappling and shoving are already broken enough and so is having easy permanent advantage. Besides, putting someone in a chokehold while you're surrounded by their buddies is not what I'd call a big-brain strat. The fact that it makes you easier to hit is working as intended in my opinion.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
My main point was that grappling doesn't really help the ranged person much either... Sure they can't move but I mean there are better builds for that (sentinel + PAM) that do more for you in general.
So many more feats help a grappler build...
Skill Expert (Expertise Athletics) Fighter Initiate (Unarmed Fighting Style), Tavern Brawler, Martial Adept (Grapple Strike), Magic Initiate (Guidance/Long strider), Tough (You are grappling the thing so it's going to hit you)
I would not put grappler above any of those
Just to clarify the concept of power creep, since it came up…
It’s all about new content. If weaker content is added to the mix, the power level stays the same because you still have access to the old content. But every little nugget of something stronger makes the power creep up, because now everyone has access to the new (stronger) content.
So, because the power level can only go in one direction— new content over time inevitably results in power creep.
I would place Lucky and Mobile over Magic Initiate (casting those spells means actions not making checks to grapple or attacking). Unarmed Fighting's 1d4 auto-damage is cute, but it shouldn't be the focus of taking that style; Superior Technique to grab Grappling Strike or pair it with Martial Adept for an extra die per rest is better IMO. ASI +2 Con is generally better than Tough as Con saves tend to be quite critical to succeed and you'd still get +1 HP/level.
Each feat offers something; Grappler gets special mention because it's a reliable advantage outlet that doesn't screw with your other party members. This directly complements Champions as 10% crit chance goes up to 19%, making their primary gimmick more reliable. Same with Crusher, GWM, Piercer and Slasher; they capitalize on the crits.
It's not unheard of for BMs to grab Martial Adept, as it directly improves what they want to do with their subclass. Same with Magic Initiate, Ritual Caster or Warcaster for EKs.
Champion fighter with 1 level dip for warlock dao patron for once per turn bludgeon damage on hit.
Invest in crusher and slasher feat. Human variant can have this done at total level 5-6 depending on if you want extra attack first. Elf/half elf of can be used for elven accuracy but take much longer to set up.
make use of two weapon fighting or double bladed scimitar if your DM lets you.
now you can choose to hold your bludgeon damage while crit fishing. You can now deal slashing damage AND crushing damage on the same critical hit.
makes your party much more effective, somewhat reliably. This debuff bypasses Legendary saves. You can also slightly shore up your utility with warlock cantrips and spells.
Hmmm, that’s not a terrible idea! A Finesse/Elven Accuracy weapon which can attack with GWM for baseline damage on 3+ attacks, frequent crits that leave them debuffed to attack with disadvantage and have advantage on attacks against them, decent AC 20 in Plate, +1 from revenant blade, +1 from Defensive style… comes together with 3 or 4 feats by Fighter 12 and fully realized by 14…
I like it!
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
The first part of Great Weapon Master for the bonus action attack only requires a melee weapon. The second part of GWM requires a weapon with the Heavy property. Double bladed scimitar has the two handed and a special property for the bonus action attack, but is lacking the heavy property. So no -5 to hit and +10 damage.
Is there a weapon with both finesse and heavy properties? Seems like those are opposite concepts.
Worth noting, Elvin Accuracy does not work for strength-based attacks. It seems the developers were cognitive not to allow the funny business of marrying Reckless Attack with Elvin Accuracy.
I thought GWM was Heavy OR Two-Handed…. My bad :/
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Funny enough if you get hexblade and barb somehow you could do that... But would require some good rolls.