So just...design your encounters ahead of time knowing there's a flyer in the party? I've literally never had a flying PC do anything but make a game I ran more interesting.
It's a bit funny, because none of my players have flight, but so many of the encounters and areas I make have things that would counter it so hard (ranged/flying enemies, unfavorable weather, indoor or underground w/ low ceilings, forest canopy) that 9 times out of 10 it just wouldn't have been an issue in my game.
Owlfolk and fairies are the third and fourth flying races to be added to 5E. If flight was really that OP, I'd expect to see Aarakocras and Winged Tieflings all over the place, but really I've only been in a couple of games where someone actually wanted to play one. The big effect it had was that they tended to become the default target for any enemies who had ranged weapons.
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"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
That's probably where the issue lies. Flying races are not a problem at my table. I've always had the opinion that if my game is broken by letting a PC go somewhere besides the ground, I'm doing something wrong.
Quoted for relevance.
Additionally, if flying races make an imbalance in encounters, just add more flying monsters. You could even have members of the same race try to hunt the party down if the member is a social outcast or fugitive in their own society. That would make for quite a cool encounter.
Owlfolk and fairies are the third and fourth flying races to be added to 5E. If flight was really that OP, I'd expect to see Aarakocras and Winged Tieflings all over the place, but really I've only been in a couple of games where someone actually wanted to play one. The big effect it had was that they tended to become the default target for any enemies who had ranged weapons.
TBF most flying races get banned so that's most likely why you don't see them.
AL pretty much bans them until 5th level since they are so disruptive at T1.
Like if all your encounters are basically designed to counter a flyer.... As a flyer I would feel like shit because I'm being countered so hard.
It's like you either have scenarios that you are handwaving because you make it trivial with flight.... Or it's mostly useless and why did I pick a flying race again if I'm just gonna get stomped into the ground for picking it?
It's so balantantly obvious you are getting countered it's just kinda removes you from the game.
None of that reflects a single experience I've ever had.
I've never played in a game where flying races were banned, but I've also only seen one flying race PC in all those games. It was an Aarakocra Sun Soul Monk I encouraged my son to play in a game I ran because he wanted to "be Goku."
I've never played in Adventurer's League and don't care, but aren't they also repealing that ban? I know they're making a lot of changes.
It's important to note that the entire encounter doesn't need to be built to counter a flyer, because no single PC is that powerful. Your biggest damage dealers, particularly in Tier 1, are going to be melee (Paladins and so on) and they'll still need to get in close to do much, and if they attempt to fly off after attacking, you get opportunity attacks on them. No flying PC race gets the Flyby feature. As long as you have some things that counter a flyer, you're fine. If you've got a party of 5 and they're facing 4-10 goblins, just make sure at least two of those have bows. Boom. Easy. Your goal is not to kill the players, it's to challenge them. If you're doing an exploration encounter where they have to traverse a ravine or something, make it too long to Misty Step across, give no bridges, and force the party's flyer to deal with encumbrance flying each character across the ravine. Flying is no help with puzzles or social encounters, so it's just combat and exploration. Be aware going in you've got a flying PC and just plan for it. Have a little imagination.
It sounds like you've either been dealing with bad DMs or are overthinking how DMs might counter a flyer. It doesn't take that much. Flight can be advantageous but it doesn't break anything when you've got a DM who's half-awake.
None of that reflects a single experience I've ever had.
I've never played in a game where flying races were banned, but I've also only seen one flying race PC in all those games. It was an Aarakocra Sun Soul Monk I encouraged my son to play in a game I ran because he wanted to "be Goku."
I've never played in Adventurer's League and don't care, but aren't they also repealing that ban? I know they're making a lot of changes.
It's important to note that the entire encounter doesn't need to be built to counter a flyer, because no single PC is that powerful. Your biggest damage dealers, particularly in Tier 1, are going to be melee (Paladins and so on) and they'll still need to get in close to do much, and if they attempt to fly off after attacking, you get opportunity attacks on them. No flying PC race gets the Flyby feature. As long as you have some things that counter a flyer, you're fine. If you've got a party of 5 and they're facing 4-10 goblins, just make sure at least two of those have bows. Boom. Easy. Your goal is not to kill the players, it's to challenge them. If you're doing an exploration encounter where they have to traverse a ravine or something, make it too long to Misty Step across, give no bridges, and force the party's flyer to deal with encumbrance flying each character across the ravine. Flying is no help with puzzles or social encounters, so it's just combat and exploration. Be aware going in you've got a flying PC and just plan for it. Have a little imagination.
It sounds like you've either been dealing with bad DMs or are overthinking how DMs might counter a flyer. It doesn't take that much. Flight can be advantageous but it doesn't break anything when you've got a DM who's half-awake.
Half-awake is a bit insulting.....I am simply stating it can make things difficult or obvious that you are countering the player.
If you are making at least half your encounters with :
1. Low ceilings
2. Ranged enemies with some ability to prone
3. Weather conditions harmful to flying
That means you are actively changing 50% of your encounters to adjust for having a flying PC. This already shows you that this racial ability (not even class or subclass) effects your design of encounters greatly. Much much more than any other racial ability.
I cannot think of another racial ability that requires such involvement for the DM to actively "balance" the encounters. Other races would see these as challenges maybe...but not a hard counter like they are for the flying races.
The vast majority of encounters are inside, underground, or include at least one enemy with ranged or flight capabilities. I'm genuinely having trouble thinking of a combat encounter I've been in that didn't include at least one of those things, even without flying PCs in the party. I very rarely had to change an encounter or add things specifically to counter a flying PC in any way. Sure, this is all anecdotal, but what you're saying doesn't remotely match my experience.
And honestly, even if everything you're saying were objectively true...how is that any different from doing less encounters with undead than you were planning to originally when one of your players chooses Cleric? Or even just upping a lot of CRs to counter Turn Undead? The DM's entire job is to match and challenge the players. I don't see that flight is any different than Yuan-Ti Magic Resistance or Gnome Cunning or Fey Ancestry or Relentless Endurance or Stone's Endurance or Nimble Escape. There are loads of racial (and class) abilities that require the DM to respond to up the overall challenge and keep a fight from being too breezy.
But again...Flight doesn't change that much about a fight. They still only have so much movement, and unless they're Rogues, can't easily disengage, so oppo is a consideration even if you have no ranged capabilities on the monster side, and most PCs are going to get in close to fight even earthbound monsters at some point. When my kid's Aarakocra hit level 3 and took Sun Soul, he started just lasering from orbit a lot, but then he discovered he could get more hits in with Flurry and he came to ground more often so I got plenty of hits in. Character never died, but he got reduced to 0 more than once. Flight doesn't give you an advantage against charm effects or things like that.
Again, racial flight can be advantageous, but it doesn't break anything. This is my actual experience, and obviously Wizards agrees.
The vast majority of encounters are inside, underground, or include at least one enemy with ranged or flight capabilities. I'm genuinely having trouble thinking of a combat encounter I've been in that didn't include at least one of those things, even without flying PCs in the party. I very rarely had to change an encounter or add things specifically to counter a flying PC in any way. Sure, this is all anecdotal, but what you're saying doesn't remotely match my experience.
And honestly, even if everything you're saying were objectively true...how is that any different from doing less encounters with undead than you were planning to originally when one of your players chooses Cleric? Or even just upping a lot of CRs to counter Turn Undead? The DM's entire job is to match and challenge the players. I don't see that flight is any different than Yuan-Ti Magic Resistance or Gnome Cunning or Fey Ancestry or Relentless Endurance or Stone's Endurance or Nimble Escape. There are loads of racial (and class) abilities that require the DM to respond to up the overall challenge and keep a fight from being too breezy.
But again...Flight doesn't change that much about a fight. They still only have so much movement, and unless they're Rogues, can't easily disengage, so oppo is a consideration even if you have no ranged capabilities on the monster side, and most PCs are going to get in close to fight even earthbound monsters at some point. When my kid's Aarakocra hit level 3 and took Sun Soul, he started just lasering from orbit a lot, but then he discovered he could get more hits in with Flurry and he came to ground more often so I got plenty of hits in. Character never died, but he got reduced to 0 more than once. Flight doesn't give you an advantage against charm effects or things like that.
Again, racial flight can be advantageous, but it doesn't break anything. This is my actual experience, and obviously Wizards agrees.
AL completely banned Aarocokra and then have then limited to 5th level or higher adventure paths now.....so they might not agree as much as you think.
Their fly speed increases with their base speed...so a monk owl will be getting a lot of flight eventually. Class features stacking on a racial bonus is kind of the crutch of the issue.
You mention Cleric which is a Class nd not a race. Class based decisions have less impact as that cleric has other things to use their Channel Divinity on. The class offers more options to do other things if you are getting countered.
For these races a lot of their "Budget" is spent on flying. Aarocockra for example....you get flight and talons and that is it. So if you counter flight hard with your suggestions....they can't really do much else with their race choice. The problem lies that you are countering a huge part of their design if don't allow it to work most of the time....and if you do it can just bypass a lot of challenge. Its just that its so good it hard to have middle ground.
Also the "majority" of anything is incredibly hard to say and I would never venture to even guess what the majority of encounters look like for any groups as they differ so much.
However...the official modules/adventures do not have a lot of low celling/ranged options/environmental hazards built into them so I would actually say that these flight based races have a bit of an advantage with published adventures.
The vast majority of encounters are inside, underground, or include at least one enemy with ranged or flight capabilities. I'm genuinely having trouble thinking of a combat encounter I've been in that didn't include at least one of those things, even without flying PCs in the party. I very rarely had to change an encounter or add things specifically to counter a flying PC in any way. Sure, this is all anecdotal, but what you're saying doesn't remotely match my experience.
And honestly, even if everything you're saying were objectively true...how is that any different from doing less encounters with undead than you were planning to originally when one of your players chooses Cleric? Or even just upping a lot of CRs to counter Turn Undead? The DM's entire job is to match and challenge the players. I don't see that flight is any different than Yuan-Ti Magic Resistance or Gnome Cunning or Fey Ancestry or Relentless Endurance or Stone's Endurance or Nimble Escape. There are loads of racial (and class) abilities that require the DM to respond to up the overall challenge and keep a fight from being too breezy.
But again...Flight doesn't change that much about a fight. They still only have so much movement, and unless they're Rogues, can't easily disengage, so oppo is a consideration even if you have no ranged capabilities on the monster side, and most PCs are going to get in close to fight even earthbound monsters at some point. When my kid's Aarakocra hit level 3 and took Sun Soul, he started just lasering from orbit a lot, but then he discovered he could get more hits in with Flurry and he came to ground more often so I got plenty of hits in. Character never died, but he got reduced to 0 more than once. Flight doesn't give you an advantage against charm effects or things like that.
Again, racial flight can be advantageous, but it doesn't break anything. This is my actual experience, and obviously Wizards agrees.
AL completely banned Aarocokra and then have then limited to 5th level or higher adventure paths now.....so they might not agree as much as you think.
Really? Sounds like they're actually coming around and dialing back the initial banning.
Their fly speed increases with their base speed...so a monk owl will be getting a lot of flight eventually. Class features stacking on a racial bonus is kind of the crutch of the issue.
Actually, it doesn't. Aarakocra are walk 25, fly 50. That's what they are. Features that increase their walk speed only touch that 25. Features that increase their fly speed only touch that 50. What you're actually focusing on is the wording of Monk features that simply say "speed." They would also apply to any other always-on speeds, whether walk, fly, swim, or burrow. Your issue here is with Monk, not flying races.
You mention Cleric which is a Class nd not a race. Class based decisions have less impact as that cleric has other things to use their Channel Divinity on. The class offers more options to do other things if you are getting countered.
Yeah, it is. But it's still an example of a player choice requiring some DM adjustment. I also listed a bunch of racial traits too. You ignored those to focus on the one thing you could nitpick.
For these races a lot of their "Budget" is spent on flying. Aarocockra for example....you get flight and talons and that is it. So if you counter flight hard with your suggestions....they can't really do much else with their race choice. The problem lies that you are countering a huge part of their design if don't allow it to work most of the time....and if you do it can just bypass a lot of challenge. Its just that its so good it hard to have middle ground.
And that's fair. But that's also something a player is going to have to take into account. If it's an underdark campaign and most of it will be small, tight tunnels, then choosing Aarakocra is on the player, and the DM won't have to counter much of anything. And again, a half-decent will counter flight some of the time, but not all of the time. You don't have to choose between ignoring that a PC has flight and full-on becoming that singular PC's antagonist. Counter some things, don't counter others. Heck, in one encounter, I depended on my kid's Aarakocra Monk having ludicrous speeds (including flight) by designing an encounter that was beyond fatal for the team, but giving them a Get Out Of Jail Free card if one of them could get to the thing that summoned the hordes in time. He caught on, stopped fighting, and raced for the thing. A flying player character is just a player character. You stomp them sometimes, ignore them sometimes, give them something built just for them sometimes.
Also the "majority" of anything is incredibly hard to say and I would never venture to even guess what the majority of encounters look like for any groups as they differ so much.
Maybe, but I'd be even less confident stating that 90% of all combat encounters happen outside in a clear area with no trees and monsters that are all earthbound, melee-only, and non-magical. Which is...kinda what you're saying without saying it. Just take the first act of Phandelver, the intro adventure for 5e. The first encounter is outside, but in a wooded area with goblins equipped with shortbows. So that's tree-cover that mitigates Flight's usefulness, as well as ranged attacks. Then you go to a cave system with relatively low ceilings, filled with goblins who are still equipped with shortbows. So that's restricting flight. There's one bit in that cave system where Flight is an advantage, in a passage where there's a deep pit you have to get past. It's thoroughly optional, and there are other ways to get where it leads. It's there to basically give a way to sneak around and surprise the goblins in one encounter. That's it. The whole first act counters flight, and it was published in 2014, the year 5e was released, before there were any official races with Flight at level 1.
The only encounters that don't counter Flight to one degree or another are the ones I mentioned above, which are encounters that take place in a wide, clear area with no obstructions, outside or with a very high (60+ feet) ceiling, and exclusively populated by monsters who are thoroughly earthbound, don't hide, and don't have ranged attacks or spellcasting. That is an enormously specific set of circumstances in which there are no counters to Flight, and if even a quarter of your campaign's combat meets all those specifications, you lack imagination.
However...the official modules/adventures do not have a lot of low celling/ranged options/environmental hazards built into them so I would actually say that these flight based races have a bit of an advantage with published adventures.
I've never played in a game where a PC race with innate flight was banned. I've only played in one game where someone wanted to play a character who could fly as a racial ability. Nobody thought that this was OP.
I'm currently GMing a group that's playing through Descent Into Avernus with an Owlfolk as one of the PCs. Again, there have been zero times where the fact that they could fly has caused significant issue for me.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Our experiences differ and thats fair and pretty evident that neither of us can give a majority likely of everyone's experiences.
However, I can say for certain that in the three adventure books I have played through (Strahd, Storm King's Thunder, Out of the Abyss) That a good 60% or more of the encounters were in wide open places.
My point about racial features vs. class features is more about opportunity cost with being hard countered as a race....as you once you pick that you have little choice in how you can change your approach other than to just not use your racial abilities. At least with a class you have other options and can adapt as needed. Its not really best to compare the two as one you have a lot more flexibility to address than the other.
And no monk is not my issue as they have to utilize resources (Step of the Wind) or become a high enough level (level 9 movement across vertical surfaces/water) to utilize that speed they get.
These races get the bonus for free from the get go and it only gets better. No other racial feature nullifies as many class features as flight does IMO.
I've never played in a game where a PC race with innate flight was banned. I've only played in one game where someone wanted to play a character who could fly as a racial ability. Nobody thought that this was OP.
I'm currently GMing a group that's playing through Descent Into Avernus with an Owlfolk as one of the PCs. Again, there have been zero times where the fact that they could fly has caused significant issue for me.
I mean Owlfolk has been out for like a few weeks....chances are you haven't even had enough time for issues to arise. And I am glad your experiences have been positive but I think for me its been an issue enough to warrant some thought at least.
And no monk is not my issue as they have to utilize resources (Step of the Wind) or become a high enough level (level 9 movement across vertical surfaces/water) to utilize that speed they get.
Okay, that part's just blatantly untrue. Monks get +10 to movement at level 2, an additional +5 at level 6, level 10, level 14, and level 18, adding a total of 30 feet of movement across the life of the class that requires literally nothing to use. And given the wording of Unarmored Movement, it applies to all speeds, whether walk, fly, swim, or burrow, even speeds granted by a subclass. Beyond's character builder/sheet tools even reflect that automatically. All Step of the Wind does is let you disengage or dash as a bonus, just like Rogues do for free.
And no monk is not my issue as they have to utilize resources (Step of the Wind) or become a high enough level (level 9 movement across vertical surfaces/water) to utilize that speed they get.
Okay, that part's just blatantly untrue. Monks get +10 to movement at level 2, an additional +5 at level 6, level 10, level 14, and level 18, adding a total of 30 feet of movement across the life of the class that requires literally nothing to use. And given the wording of Unarmored Movement, it applies to all speeds, whether walk, fly, swim, or burrow, even speeds granted by a subclass. Beyond's character builder/sheet tools even reflect that automatically. All Step of the Wind does is let you disengage or dash as a bonus, just like Rogues do for free.
They get speed but its land speed and therefore restricted by any restrictions on land speed unless mitigated by a resource (Step of the Wind) which lets you ignore difficult terrian or a higher level feature (9th level movement) that also lets you bypass it is my point.
Flight bypasses difficult terrain as nothing says you can't fly 1 ft off the ground and avoid rough terrain/spike growth/etc...
And no monk is not my issue as they have to utilize resources (Step of the Wind) or become a high enough level (level 9 movement across vertical surfaces/water) to utilize that speed they get.
Okay, that part's just blatantly untrue. Monks get +10 to movement at level 2, an additional +5 at level 6, level 10, level 14, and level 18, adding a total of 30 feet of movement across the life of the class that requires literally nothing to use. And given the wording of Unarmored Movement, it applies to all speeds, whether walk, fly, swim, or burrow, even speeds granted by a subclass. Beyond's character builder/sheet tools even reflect that automatically. All Step of the Wind does is let you disengage or dash as a bonus, just like Rogues do for free.
They get speed but its land speed and therefore restricted by any restrictions on land speed unless mitigated by a resource (Step of the Wind) which lets you ignore difficult terrian or a higher level feature (9th level movement) that also lets you bypass it is my point.
Again, that's factually untrue. The exact wording of Unarmored movement is "Starting at 2nd level, your speed increases by 10 feet while you are not wearing armor or wielding a shield." Your speed. It does not specify "walk." It applies to all speeds your character has from any source, whether race, class, magic item, or feat. This has been confirmed in Sage Advice and is reflected in the Beyond character tools.
And no monk is not my issue as they have to utilize resources (Step of the Wind) or become a high enough level (level 9 movement across vertical surfaces/water) to utilize that speed they get.
Okay, that part's just blatantly untrue. Monks get +10 to movement at level 2, an additional +5 at level 6, level 10, level 14, and level 18, adding a total of 30 feet of movement across the life of the class that requires literally nothing to use. And given the wording of Unarmored Movement, it applies to all speeds, whether walk, fly, swim, or burrow, even speeds granted by a subclass. Beyond's character builder/sheet tools even reflect that automatically. All Step of the Wind does is let you disengage or dash as a bonus, just like Rogues do for free.
They get speed but its land speed and therefore restricted by any restrictions on land speed unless mitigated by a resource (Step of the Wind) which lets you ignore difficult terrian or a higher level feature (9th level movement) that also lets you bypass it is my point.
Again, that's factually untrue. The exact wording of Unarmored movement is "Starting at 2nd level, your speed increases by 10 feet while you are not wearing armor or wielding a shield." Your speed. It does not specify "walk." It applies to all speeds your character has from any source, whether race, class, magic item, or feat. This has been confirmed in Sage Advice and is reflected in the Beyond character tools.
I am saying when you are comparing a goliath monk to a owlfolk monk.
Goliath Monk cannot avoid difficult terrain with these speed increases unless they use Step of the Wind to ignore difficult terrian.
An Owlfolk monk can just fly over the terrain and not need to expend the same resource.
Its not until 9th level that the Goliath monk can use the vertical wall run to potentially avoid the terrain while the owlfolk has been able to do it since level 1.
Does that help with the point I am trying to make?
Step of the Wind doesn't ignore difficult terrain. There are Druid and Ranger features that do that. All Step does is let you disengage or dash as a bonus action for a ki point. Yes, dashing to double your available movement for that turn counters difficult terrain, but it doesn't ignore it. And Rogues can do the same thing at no cost other than their bonus action at the same level. There are also spells that let you do it. There's a way around every obstacle, and an obstacle for every feature.
And honestly, I've played very few games where difficult terrain popped up. If you want to talk about stuff some races get at level 1 that other races can only get via class or another means much later, Yuan-Ti Pureblood have Magic Resistance, which as far as I can remember, no other race or class gets at all, and is (RAW) only available as a boon post-Level 20. Dragonborn get a breath weapon (yes I know everyone hates it) that is a 2nd-level spell only available to two out of thirteen classes. Like half the races get Darkvision, which obviates all kinds of obstacles built into pre-written adventures, and other races need a magic weapon or a spell to get. Anything with Fey Ancestry is immune to sleep, which is a huge advantage, particularly in Tier 1 play. Half-Orc has a feature that prevents them from being dropped to zero HP. They just say "no" to being incapacitated.
I wont argue that Flight can be an advantage, but every race has something it gets that other races/classes can't get until much later, if at all. You're not wrong in pointing out that Flight is an advantage, but it's not noticeably moreso than features and traits all kinds of other races get. Where I think you're wrong (apart from misunderstanding Monks) is in believe that the advantages it does offer are game-breaking. In my experience, honestly, most people I know think Aarakocra is an awful race and hardly anyone wants to play them. If Flight was desperately overpowered, that simply would not be the case.
Step of the Wind doesn't ignore difficult terrain. There are Druid and Ranger features that do that. All Step does is let you disengage or dash as a bonus action for a ki point. Yes, dashing to double your available movement for that turn counters difficult terrain, but it doesn't ignore it. And Rogues can do the same thing at no cost other than their bonus action at the same level. There are also spells that let you do it. There's a way around every obstacle, and an obstacle for every feature.
And honestly, I've played very few games where difficult terrain popped up. If you want to talk about stuff some races get at level 1 that other races can only get via class or another means much later, Yuan-Ti Pureblood have Magic Resistance, which as far as I can remember, no other race or class gets at all, and is (RAW) only available as a boon post-Level 20. Dragonborn get a breath weapon (yes I know everyone hates it) that is a 2nd-level spell only available to two out of thirteen classes. Like half the races get Darkvision, which obviates all kinds of obstacles built into pre-written adventures, and other races need a magic weapon or a spell to get. Anything with Fey Ancestry is immune to sleep, which is a huge advantage, particularly in Tier 1 play. Half-Orc has a feature that prevents them from being dropped to zero HP. They just say "no" to being incapacitated.
I wont argue that Flight can be an advantage, but every race has something it gets that other races/classes can't get until much later, if at all. You're not wrong in pointing out that Flight is an advantage, but it's not noticeably moreso than features and traits all kinds of other races get. Where I think you're wrong (apart from misunderstanding Monks) is in believe that the advantages it does offer are game-breaking. In my experience, honestly, most people I know think Aarakocra is an awful race and hardly anyone wants to play them. If Flight was desperately overpowered, that simply would not be the case.
My bad I was misremembering the ability....it gives you an increased jump distance which theoretically you could use to avoid difficult terrain but you are correct it does not outright let you ignore it.
Its not JUST difficult terrain though as it is other hazardous things like traps, holes, climbing, etc... just ignored completely. If you want to utilize hazards in general its much less likely you will impact the owlfolk player nearly as much.
I agree 100% on Yuan-Ti and generally remove the magical resistance feature if someone wants to play one. Saytr race does get this as well and I find it equally problematic.
The other examples you state are less of a concern as Darkvision is prevalent to the extent its more a problem if you DONT have it. You can mitigate darkness a lot easier though as torches are cheap, light is a cantrip, etc...flight is not available to 99% of level 1 pcs nor can they generally buy a way to do it.
Dragon breath is a short rest resource and is thus much more limited than at will flight. Its an unfair comparison as one is a one time per rest use of a worse version of a spell vs. a always on version of a 3rd level spell.
Fey Ancestry is almost never applicable it seems as very few creatures have Sleep spell. Half Orc is once per day so again highly limted compared to something that is always on.
These racial abilites are generally better balanced as they have one thing in common: They are limited to a resource that once expended you cannot use again.
Flight is always on and is difficult to turn off RAW.
Overall the other racial abilities are much more limited in their scope and use were flight has several very real impacts to balance beyond just combat.
I've never played in a game where a PC race with innate flight was banned. I've only played in one game where someone wanted to play a character who could fly as a racial ability. Nobody thought that this was OP.
I'm currently GMing a group that's playing through Descent Into Avernus with an Owlfolk as one of the PCs. Again, there have been zero times where the fact that they could fly has caused significant issue for me.
I mean Owlfolk has been out for like a few weeks....chances are you haven't even had enough time for issues to arise. And I am glad your experiences have been positive but I think for me its been an issue enough to warrant some thought at least.
The difference is that I don't view an owlfolk character being able to fly and using that to bypass an obstacle as a problem. I view it as a reward that the player gets for their character choice, same as someone playing a Goliath or Triton in Rime of the Frost Maiden not having to make saving throws against hypothermia after their character got dunked in freezing water because they have innate resistance to cold damage. It's not like having one character who isn't subjected to the issue lets the rest of the party teleport past the obstacle unscathed.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
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So just...design your encounters ahead of time knowing there's a flyer in the party? I've literally never had a flying PC do anything but make a game I ran more interesting.
It's a bit funny, because none of my players have flight, but so many of the encounters and areas I make have things that would counter it so hard (ranged/flying enemies, unfavorable weather, indoor or underground w/ low ceilings, forest canopy) that 9 times out of 10 it just wouldn't have been an issue in my game.
Owlfolk and fairies are the third and fourth flying races to be added to 5E. If flight was really that OP, I'd expect to see Aarakocras and Winged Tieflings all over the place, but really I've only been in a couple of games where someone actually wanted to play one. The big effect it had was that they tended to become the default target for any enemies who had ranged weapons.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Quoted for relevance.
Additionally, if flying races make an imbalance in encounters, just add more flying monsters. You could even have members of the same race try to hunt the party down if the member is a social outcast or fugitive in their own society. That would make for quite a cool encounter.
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Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
TBF most flying races get banned so that's most likely why you don't see them.
AL pretty much bans them until 5th level since they are so disruptive at T1.
Like if all your encounters are basically designed to counter a flyer.... As a flyer I would feel like shit because I'm being countered so hard.
It's like you either have scenarios that you are handwaving because you make it trivial with flight.... Or it's mostly useless and why did I pick a flying race again if I'm just gonna get stomped into the ground for picking it?
It's so balantantly obvious you are getting countered it's just kinda removes you from the game.
None of that reflects a single experience I've ever had.
I've never played in a game where flying races were banned, but I've also only seen one flying race PC in all those games. It was an Aarakocra Sun Soul Monk I encouraged my son to play in a game I ran because he wanted to "be Goku."
I've never played in Adventurer's League and don't care, but aren't they also repealing that ban? I know they're making a lot of changes.
It's important to note that the entire encounter doesn't need to be built to counter a flyer, because no single PC is that powerful. Your biggest damage dealers, particularly in Tier 1, are going to be melee (Paladins and so on) and they'll still need to get in close to do much, and if they attempt to fly off after attacking, you get opportunity attacks on them. No flying PC race gets the Flyby feature. As long as you have some things that counter a flyer, you're fine. If you've got a party of 5 and they're facing 4-10 goblins, just make sure at least two of those have bows. Boom. Easy. Your goal is not to kill the players, it's to challenge them. If you're doing an exploration encounter where they have to traverse a ravine or something, make it too long to Misty Step across, give no bridges, and force the party's flyer to deal with encumbrance flying each character across the ravine. Flying is no help with puzzles or social encounters, so it's just combat and exploration. Be aware going in you've got a flying PC and just plan for it. Have a little imagination.
It sounds like you've either been dealing with bad DMs or are overthinking how DMs might counter a flyer. It doesn't take that much. Flight can be advantageous but it doesn't break anything when you've got a DM who's half-awake.
Half-awake is a bit insulting.....I am simply stating it can make things difficult or obvious that you are countering the player.
If you are making at least half your encounters with :
1. Low ceilings
2. Ranged enemies with some ability to prone
3. Weather conditions harmful to flying
That means you are actively changing 50% of your encounters to adjust for having a flying PC. This already shows you that this racial ability (not even class or subclass) effects your design of encounters greatly. Much much more than any other racial ability.
I cannot think of another racial ability that requires such involvement for the DM to actively "balance" the encounters. Other races would see these as challenges maybe...but not a hard counter like they are for the flying races.
The vast majority of encounters are inside, underground, or include at least one enemy with ranged or flight capabilities. I'm genuinely having trouble thinking of a combat encounter I've been in that didn't include at least one of those things, even without flying PCs in the party. I very rarely had to change an encounter or add things specifically to counter a flying PC in any way. Sure, this is all anecdotal, but what you're saying doesn't remotely match my experience.
And honestly, even if everything you're saying were objectively true...how is that any different from doing less encounters with undead than you were planning to originally when one of your players chooses Cleric? Or even just upping a lot of CRs to counter Turn Undead? The DM's entire job is to match and challenge the players. I don't see that flight is any different than Yuan-Ti Magic Resistance or Gnome Cunning or Fey Ancestry or Relentless Endurance or Stone's Endurance or Nimble Escape. There are loads of racial (and class) abilities that require the DM to respond to up the overall challenge and keep a fight from being too breezy.
But again...Flight doesn't change that much about a fight. They still only have so much movement, and unless they're Rogues, can't easily disengage, so oppo is a consideration even if you have no ranged capabilities on the monster side, and most PCs are going to get in close to fight even earthbound monsters at some point. When my kid's Aarakocra hit level 3 and took Sun Soul, he started just lasering from orbit a lot, but then he discovered he could get more hits in with Flurry and he came to ground more often so I got plenty of hits in. Character never died, but he got reduced to 0 more than once. Flight doesn't give you an advantage against charm effects or things like that.
Again, racial flight can be advantageous, but it doesn't break anything. This is my actual experience, and obviously Wizards agrees.
AL completely banned Aarocokra and then have then limited to 5th level or higher adventure paths now.....so they might not agree as much as you think.
Their fly speed increases with their base speed...so a monk owl will be getting a lot of flight eventually. Class features stacking on a racial bonus is kind of the crutch of the issue.
You mention Cleric which is a Class nd not a race. Class based decisions have less impact as that cleric has other things to use their Channel Divinity on. The class offers more options to do other things if you are getting countered.
For these races a lot of their "Budget" is spent on flying. Aarocockra for example....you get flight and talons and that is it. So if you counter flight hard with your suggestions....they can't really do much else with their race choice. The problem lies that you are countering a huge part of their design if don't allow it to work most of the time....and if you do it can just bypass a lot of challenge. Its just that its so good it hard to have middle ground.
Also the "majority" of anything is incredibly hard to say and I would never venture to even guess what the majority of encounters look like for any groups as they differ so much.
However...the official modules/adventures do not have a lot of low celling/ranged options/environmental hazards built into them so I would actually say that these flight based races have a bit of an advantage with published adventures.
Really? Sounds like they're actually coming around and dialing back the initial banning.
Actually, it doesn't. Aarakocra are walk 25, fly 50. That's what they are. Features that increase their walk speed only touch that 25. Features that increase their fly speed only touch that 50. What you're actually focusing on is the wording of Monk features that simply say "speed." They would also apply to any other always-on speeds, whether walk, fly, swim, or burrow. Your issue here is with Monk, not flying races.
Yeah, it is. But it's still an example of a player choice requiring some DM adjustment. I also listed a bunch of racial traits too. You ignored those to focus on the one thing you could nitpick.
And that's fair. But that's also something a player is going to have to take into account. If it's an underdark campaign and most of it will be small, tight tunnels, then choosing Aarakocra is on the player, and the DM won't have to counter much of anything. And again, a half-decent will counter flight some of the time, but not all of the time. You don't have to choose between ignoring that a PC has flight and full-on becoming that singular PC's antagonist. Counter some things, don't counter others. Heck, in one encounter, I depended on my kid's Aarakocra Monk having ludicrous speeds (including flight) by designing an encounter that was beyond fatal for the team, but giving them a Get Out Of Jail Free card if one of them could get to the thing that summoned the hordes in time. He caught on, stopped fighting, and raced for the thing. A flying player character is just a player character. You stomp them sometimes, ignore them sometimes, give them something built just for them sometimes.
Maybe, but I'd be even less confident stating that 90% of all combat encounters happen outside in a clear area with no trees and monsters that are all earthbound, melee-only, and non-magical. Which is...kinda what you're saying without saying it. Just take the first act of Phandelver, the intro adventure for 5e. The first encounter is outside, but in a wooded area with goblins equipped with shortbows. So that's tree-cover that mitigates Flight's usefulness, as well as ranged attacks. Then you go to a cave system with relatively low ceilings, filled with goblins who are still equipped with shortbows. So that's restricting flight. There's one bit in that cave system where Flight is an advantage, in a passage where there's a deep pit you have to get past. It's thoroughly optional, and there are other ways to get where it leads. It's there to basically give a way to sneak around and surprise the goblins in one encounter. That's it. The whole first act counters flight, and it was published in 2014, the year 5e was released, before there were any official races with Flight at level 1.
The only encounters that don't counter Flight to one degree or another are the ones I mentioned above, which are encounters that take place in a wide, clear area with no obstructions, outside or with a very high (60+ feet) ceiling, and exclusively populated by monsters who are thoroughly earthbound, don't hide, and don't have ranged attacks or spellcasting. That is an enormously specific set of circumstances in which there are no counters to Flight, and if even a quarter of your campaign's combat meets all those specifications, you lack imagination.
Again, that is very much not my experience.
I've never played in a game where a PC race with innate flight was banned. I've only played in one game where someone wanted to play a character who could fly as a racial ability. Nobody thought that this was OP.
I'm currently GMing a group that's playing through Descent Into Avernus with an Owlfolk as one of the PCs. Again, there have been zero times where the fact that they could fly has caused significant issue for me.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Our experiences differ and thats fair and pretty evident that neither of us can give a majority likely of everyone's experiences.
However, I can say for certain that in the three adventure books I have played through (Strahd, Storm King's Thunder, Out of the Abyss) That a good 60% or more of the encounters were in wide open places.
My point about racial features vs. class features is more about opportunity cost with being hard countered as a race....as you once you pick that you have little choice in how you can change your approach other than to just not use your racial abilities. At least with a class you have other options and can adapt as needed. Its not really best to compare the two as one you have a lot more flexibility to address than the other.
And no monk is not my issue as they have to utilize resources (Step of the Wind) or become a high enough level (level 9 movement across vertical surfaces/water) to utilize that speed they get.
These races get the bonus for free from the get go and it only gets better. No other racial feature nullifies as many class features as flight does IMO.
I mean Owlfolk has been out for like a few weeks....chances are you haven't even had enough time for issues to arise. And I am glad your experiences have been positive but I think for me its been an issue enough to warrant some thought at least.
Okay, that part's just blatantly untrue. Monks get +10 to movement at level 2, an additional +5 at level 6, level 10, level 14, and level 18, adding a total of 30 feet of movement across the life of the class that requires literally nothing to use. And given the wording of Unarmored Movement, it applies to all speeds, whether walk, fly, swim, or burrow, even speeds granted by a subclass. Beyond's character builder/sheet tools even reflect that automatically. All Step of the Wind does is let you disengage or dash as a bonus, just like Rogues do for free.
They get speed but its land speed and therefore restricted by any restrictions on land speed unless mitigated by a resource (Step of the Wind) which lets you ignore difficult terrian or a higher level feature (9th level movement) that also lets you bypass it is my point.
Flight bypasses difficult terrain as nothing says you can't fly 1 ft off the ground and avoid rough terrain/spike growth/etc...
Sorry I was not clear on my point.
Again, that's factually untrue. The exact wording of Unarmored movement is "Starting at 2nd level, your speed increases by 10 feet while you are not wearing armor or wielding a shield." Your speed. It does not specify "walk." It applies to all speeds your character has from any source, whether race, class, magic item, or feat. This has been confirmed in Sage Advice and is reflected in the Beyond character tools.
I am saying when you are comparing a goliath monk to a owlfolk monk.
Goliath Monk cannot avoid difficult terrain with these speed increases unless they use Step of the Wind to ignore difficult terrian.
An Owlfolk monk can just fly over the terrain and not need to expend the same resource.
Its not until 9th level that the Goliath monk can use the vertical wall run to potentially avoid the terrain while the owlfolk has been able to do it since level 1.
Does that help with the point I am trying to make?
Step of the Wind doesn't ignore difficult terrain. There are Druid and Ranger features that do that. All Step does is let you disengage or dash as a bonus action for a ki point. Yes, dashing to double your available movement for that turn counters difficult terrain, but it doesn't ignore it. And Rogues can do the same thing at no cost other than their bonus action at the same level. There are also spells that let you do it. There's a way around every obstacle, and an obstacle for every feature.
And honestly, I've played very few games where difficult terrain popped up. If you want to talk about stuff some races get at level 1 that other races can only get via class or another means much later, Yuan-Ti Pureblood have Magic Resistance, which as far as I can remember, no other race or class gets at all, and is (RAW) only available as a boon post-Level 20. Dragonborn get a breath weapon (yes I know everyone hates it) that is a 2nd-level spell only available to two out of thirteen classes. Like half the races get Darkvision, which obviates all kinds of obstacles built into pre-written adventures, and other races need a magic weapon or a spell to get. Anything with Fey Ancestry is immune to sleep, which is a huge advantage, particularly in Tier 1 play. Half-Orc has a feature that prevents them from being dropped to zero HP. They just say "no" to being incapacitated.
I wont argue that Flight can be an advantage, but every race has something it gets that other races/classes can't get until much later, if at all. You're not wrong in pointing out that Flight is an advantage, but it's not noticeably moreso than features and traits all kinds of other races get. Where I think you're wrong (apart from misunderstanding Monks) is in believe that the advantages it does offer are game-breaking. In my experience, honestly, most people I know think Aarakocra is an awful race and hardly anyone wants to play them. If Flight was desperately overpowered, that simply would not be the case.
My bad I was misremembering the ability....it gives you an increased jump distance which theoretically you could use to avoid difficult terrain but you are correct it does not outright let you ignore it.
Its not JUST difficult terrain though as it is other hazardous things like traps, holes, climbing, etc... just ignored completely. If you want to utilize hazards in general its much less likely you will impact the owlfolk player nearly as much.
I agree 100% on Yuan-Ti and generally remove the magical resistance feature if someone wants to play one. Saytr race does get this as well and I find it equally problematic.
The other examples you state are less of a concern as Darkvision is prevalent to the extent its more a problem if you DONT have it. You can mitigate darkness a lot easier though as torches are cheap, light is a cantrip, etc...flight is not available to 99% of level 1 pcs nor can they generally buy a way to do it.
Dragon breath is a short rest resource and is thus much more limited than at will flight. Its an unfair comparison as one is a one time per rest use of a worse version of a spell vs. a always on version of a 3rd level spell.
Fey Ancestry is almost never applicable it seems as very few creatures have Sleep spell. Half Orc is once per day so again highly limted compared to something that is always on.
These racial abilites are generally better balanced as they have one thing in common: They are limited to a resource that once expended you cannot use again.
Flight is always on and is difficult to turn off RAW.
Overall the other racial abilities are much more limited in their scope and use were flight has several very real impacts to balance beyond just combat.
The difference is that I don't view an owlfolk character being able to fly and using that to bypass an obstacle as a problem. I view it as a reward that the player gets for their character choice, same as someone playing a Goliath or Triton in Rime of the Frost Maiden not having to make saving throws against hypothermia after their character got dunked in freezing water because they have innate resistance to cold damage. It's not like having one character who isn't subjected to the issue lets the rest of the party teleport past the obstacle unscathed.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.