Dragonborn have always looked really cool from afar, but whenever I read their feature page during character creation I would get my expectations up and then be reminded that their racial features were... useful but boring. A one-trick pony of different flavors. With these options, I'm looking forward to the versatility my lvl1 Illriger** dragonborn can bring to Avernus.
Hilariously, I made my character before finding these additional options. My breath weapon WAS powerful at level 1, but I didn't forsee myself using it at higher levels that often. Now, I do!
**PS I hope the Illrigger can get the Blood Hunter treatment, or at least custom class options
I love their description in Volos (but not their rules though), I love the picture that was painted, how they relied on their strong sense of community and their ingenious traps and above average proficiency in mining and tunnelling to survive in a world of mighty monsters and creatures where a kobold was more or less a snack or a minion.
These rules doesn't seem to represent those kobolds at all! Where's the rules for their trap affinity, their cunning nature, their strong social nature?
I do hate the grovelling rule (more because of the name and how it's described than the mechanic) and that they got a penalty to one of their ability scores (A kobold who spends it's life working in a mine or with other menial tasks is weaker than halflings or gnomes? Just remove the penalty altogether)
But I can't for the life of me understand why you've given them abilities to be fearless or fight with their tails... or that they can roar at enemies. Nothing of these abilities feel like kobolds. That would fit half dragons or dragonborn, certainly not kobolds! (As I write this I realise that the fearless part do fit in with their sense of community and working for the greater good. But I'd rather see this as a group effect. Something like, "as long as the Kobold have line of sight to another friendly character who's neither prone, incapacitated or frightened, the Kobold has advantage on saving throws against being frightened")
These changes don't fit their stature, race or culture. Even the very fitting Pack tactics and Sunlight sensitivity are removed!
It feels like someone thought the kobolds needed a balance change, but only looked at numbers, and not at how the race is described in the lore.
Remove the tail weapon (they are too small for that kind of damage) and just give them 1d4 dmg natural weapons that can be a combination of claw and bite. Get rid of "Roar" and exchange it for something like pack tactics. I don't think kobolds should boost parties, they should benefit from being in a group/pack/party. Keep sunlight sensitivity. It fits an underground dwelling race. If someone want to play a Kobold from a forest village, then just work it out with your DM. Rework the fearless ability to fit with the group mentality. Address their affinity for traps and underground activity! Let them have advantages to find traps and avoid their damage. Keep the sorcerer cantrip, but give an option to replace it with an ability to craft trap from basic materials (sharpened sticks, pitfalls, snares or even baskets of snakes, urns of swarming insects or a caged skunk!) or proficiency in mining/tunnelling.
I'd like to see kobolds who benefit from being part of a group, not a support character with hardly any traits associated with the kobold race from either the monster manual or Volos. But hey, that's just my opinion, and as I've seen in this thread, there's quite a few who like the changes as they are. I can accept that they needed a work over, but I feel they lost the kobold part when they tried to make them more "draconic".
Kobolds are not cowards, they are aggressive and can be very fearless. I don’t see why people are acting like brave Kobolds are a crime when Beg, Cower and Grovel is in fact the most insulting and stupid name of an ability to ever give a Kobold. The only creatures in all of D&D that the Kobolds would act this way to are Dragons, and yet they are also known to defend those dragons with their very lives.
Plus, Draconic Kobolds are very much a thing in D&D. In fact, the reason that many Kobolds take on more Draconic features in previous editions is usually due to their obsessive natures of worshiping and seeking out dragons to serve. These Draconic Kobolds are more independent, very capable leaders and warriors, and often times have sorcerous magic due to their Draconic blood. Also, they have a pretty impressive tail so it isn’t a stretch to say that a Kobold with more Draconic features wouldn’t have a stronger tail to attack with. A bite or Claw attack would work too but no other race has an actual tail attack for a natural weapon so I like that they are unique in that regard.
That said it is frustrating that the normal Kobold doesn’t have any racial abilities tied to their impressive mining, crafting, and trap making skills. They are like the Dwarves and Gnomes of the monstrous races in that regard. The base Kobolds should be improved, and these new ones should be a different Sub-race. I would hate for these Kobolds to just be dropped.
Lineage options no longer represent entire species of beings. They're a mechanical representation of an adventurer member of the race. Its a representation of singular, unique beings.
The D&D team said that they were no longer going to include any cultural-social background to races. Only pure, biological quirks. Trap affinity? That's cultural bagage, not biological. You can have a trap-focused kobold by going rogue. Strong social nature? That's the definition of cultural baggage. Cunning? Kobold culture as a whole is cunning and tricksy, but not necessarily individuals.
If you want the cunning trap maker? There are backgrounds to do that. Want more cunning trap stuff? Rogue. You can still play all that stuff. Not good enough? Simple enough to reflavor the kobold mechanics -that's what they did to make the new kobold from the old stat block anyways!
although I wonder if giving the dragonborn more uses tips it too far to being unbalanced.
Its not more uses tho, its less and a nerf to all non-martials as far as breath usage. Breath becomes pointless past mid T2 either way. Now Dragonborn are just trashier (or in gem dragons, alt or half resist for bonus action on 3rd level trait) aasimar. By all accounts a +1 str, con, cha half dragon template with breath dice equal to prof bonus remains the best dragonborn race option.
Kobolds are not cowards, they are aggressive and can be very fearless. I don’t see why people are acting like brave Kobolds are a crime when Beg, Cower and Grovel is in fact the most insulting and stupid name of an ability to ever give a Kobold. The only creatures in all of D&D that the Kobolds would act this way to are Dragons, and yet they are also known to defend those dragons with their very lives.
Plus, Draconic Kobolds are very much a thing in D&D. In fact, the reason that many Kobolds take on more Draconic features in previous editions is usually due to their obsessive natures of worshiping and seeking out dragons to serve. These Draconic Kobolds are more independent, very capable leaders and warriors, and often times have sorcerous magic due to their Draconic blood. Also, they have a pretty impressive tail so it isn’t a stretch to say that a Kobold with more Draconic features wouldn’t have a stronger tail to attack with. A bite or Claw attack would work too but no other race has an actual tail attack for a natural weapon so I like that they are unique in that regard.
That said it is frustrating that the normal Kobold doesn’t have any racial abilities tied to their impressive mining, crafting, and trap making skills. They are like the Dwarves and Gnomes of the monstrous races in that regard. The base Kobolds should be improved, and these new ones should be a different Sub-race. I would hate for these Kobolds to just be dropped.
Ah yes, a lore accurate featureset that just lacked a trap maker per short rest feature with the -2 to strength is now wrong when something that goes completely against every settings version of them is good. CLEARLY in no way reeking of 4e mud that hate different species being different species.
although I wonder if giving the dragonborn more uses tips it too far to being unbalanced.
Its not more uses tho, its less and a nerf to all non-martials as far as breath usage. Breath becomes pointless past mid T2 either way. Now Dragonborn are just trashier (or in gem dragons, alt or half resist for bonus action on 3rd level trait) aasimar. By all accounts a +1 str, con, cha half dragon template with breath dice equal to prof bonus remains the best dragonborn race option.
That's also not RAW to the half-dragon template in the Monster Manual, and there are just so many homebrew "fixes" to dragonborn that if it's actually out there on homebrewery or wherever that it's been lost in the noise.
Kobolds are not cowards, they are aggressive and can be very fearless. I don’t see why people are acting like brave Kobolds are a crime when Beg, Cower and Grovel is in fact the most insulting and stupid name of an ability to ever give a Kobold. The only creatures in all of D&D that the Kobolds would act this way to are Dragons, and yet they are also known to defend those dragons with their very lives.
Plus, Draconic Kobolds are very much a thing in D&D. In fact, the reason that many Kobolds take on more Draconic features in previous editions is usually due to their obsessive natures of worshiping and seeking out dragons to serve. These Draconic Kobolds are more independent, very capable leaders and warriors, and often times have sorcerous magic due to their Draconic blood. Also, they have a pretty impressive tail so it isn’t a stretch to say that a Kobold with more Draconic features wouldn’t have a stronger tail to attack with. A bite or Claw attack would work too but no other race has an actual tail attack for a natural weapon so I like that they are unique in that regard.
That said it is frustrating that the normal Kobold doesn’t have any racial abilities tied to their impressive mining, crafting, and trap making skills. They are like the Dwarves and Gnomes of the monstrous races in that regard. The base Kobolds should be improved, and these new ones should be a different Sub-race. I would hate for these Kobolds to just be dropped.
Ah yes, a lore accurate featureset that just lacked a trap maker per short rest feature with the -2 to strength is now wrong when something that goes completely against every settings version of them is good. CLEARLY in no way reeking of 4e mud that hate different species being different species.
Um.....ok, sorry if I upset you in some way somehow?
I mean, I can point out how people like using lore to explain why something can't be one way while ignoring lore that states clearly that it in fact can be that way.
Also I don't get the logic that 4e muddied the waters of races, the races were all different and had feats and class specializations only members of those races could take. Each race and sub-race just had more options within their own Character creation bubbles for a player to choose.
I don't really get the hostility. Maybe my wording rubbed you the wrong way. Sorry if it did but you don't have to be rude about it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
I'm still not seeing a downside to playing a Kender. What you call being scarred for life is just an awesome and/or tragic backstory.
The problems with Kenders at a table in 2nd where varied. The Kender caused inter party strife, became the centre of the table, had to get away with things other players would have been harshly punished for, took a lot of time away from other players/things.
I'm still not seeing a downside to playing a Kender. What you call being scarred for life is just an awesome and/or tragic backstory.
The problems with Kenders at a table in 2nd where varied. The Kender caused inter party strife, became the centre of the table, had to get away with things other players would have been harshly punished for, took a lot of time away from other players/things.
My favorite part of this UA is the fact that Kender are never mentioned once in it, the downside to playing a Kender at my table is the instant death they receive before play even begins.
Do we have an ETA when these options will be available to select as play test content?
Probably "soon." They tend not to tell us sch things.
Annoying, since this time I actually want to use playtest material and I've got a game that's basically just waiting on me to get my character sheet in before it begins.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I feel like the flavor text of Draconic Roar would appeal to roughly 0% of current kobold users. I think they will see a lot of pushback on this in the survey.
My group has always joked that every time a kobold crits it levels up into something more badass - this would be a fine example of an "upgraded" kobold. But sometimes you just wanna play the sneaky coward comic relief kind of character that the current kobold does perfectly. This just feels like a small dragonborn.
Really?
I rather like the newfound flexibility of Draconic Roar...sure, the classic "cowardly" kobold would not likely have a powerful battle-cry...but the fact that the feature specifies that it is a primal release of emotion that can include fear, anger, triumph, etc...means that the kobold is no longer limited to a single archetype, at least as far as mechanics go: they can be scared, or scary.
I like that now I can have one kobold character whose "Draconic Roar" can be frightened "MEEP!" that distracts enemies as the kobold panics...and an entirely DIFFERENT kobold character who is a stalwart paladin whose "Draconic Roar" is a surprising bellow that makes enemies tremble.
I hope that there isn't too much push-back at all...I like the freedom the class feature provides.
The only thing I might change for the new kobold design would be the optional use of their tail as a bludgeoning weapon...it doesn't seem like there would be much "heft" to that sort of attack (funny, though).
It makes more sense if the kobold did piercing damage with their teeth or claws, I feel.
I might go so far as to give a feature relating to "tinkering" in some way...give them a Tool Proficiency that can be used as a spellcasting focus, perhaps...maybe they can construct a rudimentary bomb, weapon, or trap that lets them deliver a powerful effect once per long rest...explosive AOE damage...a +1 weapon / armor design that they can use that subsequently falls apart...or a trap that inflicts the "restrained" condition if the enemy fails the check.
The new breath is too strong... imagine an Level 2 fighter releasing two breaths in one turn... 4d8 in one turn as AoE?! That’s way to strong. Maybe grant him half proficiency as uses...
In my opinion the new kobold is cute and the 10 feet roar is okay.
If I am correct the Dragonborn is the only race with a scaling AoE damage. Giving it more uses can easily break some classes. Right now it is okay but could be stronger, the UA changes are crazy strong. I think either the d8 damage boost or the proficiency use boost.
I would prefer a mix with the new abilities, the old damage, half of the proficiency as uses and maybe the new damage scaling. I like that it scales like the cantrips now.
You're misreading, "Breath Weapon. When you take the Attack action, you can replace one of your attacks with an exhalation of a magical energy" no one gets extra attacks before 5th level. This is the same as casting a spell instead of attacking until then. I know that as is the current damage and uses are practically useless after 5th if you're a melee class unless a lot of enemies w/ crappy saves and hp clump up in front of you its more efficient to melee attack them or cast a real spell.
You're misreading, "Breath Weapon. When you take the Attack action, you can replace one of your attacks with an exhalation of a magical energy" no one gets extra attacks before 5th level. This is the same as casting a spell instead of attacking until then. I know that as is the current damage and uses are practically useless after 5th if you're a melee class unless a lot of enemies w/ crappy saves and hp clump up in front of you its more efficient to melee attack them or cast a real spell.
What I think he might be referring to (especially referencing a level 2 fighter) is the fighter using their action surge right away to use both breath weapons in the same turn. I could be wrong, but this is the way I am reading it and interpreting it.
A flash of light streaks toward a creature of your choice within range. Make a ranged spell attack against the target. On a hit, the target takes 4d6 radiant damage, and the next attack roll made against this target before the end of your next turn has advantage, thanks to the mystical dim light glittering on the target until then.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, the damage increases by 1d6 for each slot level above 1st.
Well, they can do that if they really, really want to burn through all their limited-use abilities in one round. On average they're only going to be dealing a couple more points of damage than a wizard who casts Burning Hands.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
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Dragonborn have always looked really cool from afar, but whenever I read their feature page during character creation I would get my expectations up and then be reminded that their racial features were... useful but boring. A one-trick pony of different flavors. With these options, I'm looking forward to the versatility my lvl1 Illriger** dragonborn can bring to Avernus.
Hilariously, I made my character before finding these additional options. My breath weapon WAS powerful at level 1, but I didn't forsee myself using it at higher levels that often. Now, I do!
**PS I hope the Illrigger can get the Blood Hunter treatment, or at least custom class options
These rules doesn't seem to represent those kobolds at all! Where's the rules for their trap affinity, their cunning nature, their strong social nature?
Remove the tail weapon (they are too small for that kind of damage) and just give them 1d4 dmg natural weapons that can be a combination of claw and bite.
Get rid of "Roar" and exchange it for something like pack tactics. I don't think kobolds should boost parties, they should benefit from being in a group/pack/party.
Keep sunlight sensitivity. It fits an underground dwelling race. If someone want to play a Kobold from a forest village, then just work it out with your DM.
Rework the fearless ability to fit with the group mentality.
Address their affinity for traps and underground activity! Let them have advantages to find traps and avoid their damage.
Keep the sorcerer cantrip, but give an option to replace it with an ability to craft trap from basic materials (sharpened sticks, pitfalls, snares or even baskets of snakes, urns of swarming insects or a caged skunk!) or proficiency in mining/tunnelling.
But hey, that's just my opinion, and as I've seen in this thread, there's quite a few who like the changes as they are. I can accept that they needed a work over, but I feel they lost the kobold part when they tried to make them more "draconic".
Kobolds are not cowards, they are aggressive and can be very fearless. I don’t see why people are acting like brave Kobolds are a crime when Beg, Cower and Grovel is in fact the most insulting and stupid name of an ability to ever give a Kobold. The only creatures in all of D&D that the Kobolds would act this way to are Dragons, and yet they are also known to defend those dragons with their very lives.
Plus, Draconic Kobolds are very much a thing in D&D. In fact, the reason that many Kobolds take on more Draconic features in previous editions is usually due to their obsessive natures of worshiping and seeking out dragons to serve. These Draconic Kobolds are more independent, very capable leaders and warriors, and often times have sorcerous magic due to their Draconic blood. Also, they have a pretty impressive tail so it isn’t a stretch to say that a Kobold with more Draconic features wouldn’t have a stronger tail to attack with. A bite or Claw attack would work too but no other race has an actual tail attack for a natural weapon so I like that they are unique in that regard.
That said it is frustrating that the normal Kobold doesn’t have any racial abilities tied to their impressive mining, crafting, and trap making skills. They are like the Dwarves and Gnomes of the monstrous races in that regard. The base Kobolds should be improved, and these new ones should be a different Sub-race. I would hate for these Kobolds to just be dropped.
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
Characters for Tenebris Sine Fine
RoughCoronet's Greater Wills
I'm probably talking into the wind here, but....
Lineage options no longer represent entire species of beings. They're a mechanical representation of an adventurer member of the race. Its a representation of singular, unique beings.
The D&D team said that they were no longer going to include any cultural-social background to races. Only pure, biological quirks. Trap affinity? That's cultural bagage, not biological. You can have a trap-focused kobold by going rogue. Strong social nature? That's the definition of cultural baggage. Cunning? Kobold culture as a whole is cunning and tricksy, but not necessarily individuals.
If you want the cunning trap maker? There are backgrounds to do that. Want more cunning trap stuff? Rogue. You can still play all that stuff. Not good enough? Simple enough to reflavor the kobold mechanics -that's what they did to make the new kobold from the old stat block anyways!
The some custom lineages do have a skill prof option, so it may simply be an oversight for these variant kobolds?
Its not more uses tho, its less and a nerf to all non-martials as far as breath usage.
Breath becomes pointless past mid T2 either way. Now Dragonborn are just trashier (or in gem dragons, alt or half resist for bonus action on 3rd level trait) aasimar.
By all accounts a +1 str, con, cha half dragon template with breath dice equal to prof bonus remains the best dragonborn race option.
Ah yes, a lore accurate featureset that just lacked a trap maker per short rest feature with the -2 to strength is now wrong when something that goes completely against every settings version of them is good. CLEARLY in no way reeking of 4e mud that hate different species being different species.
That's also not RAW to the half-dragon template in the Monster Manual, and there are just so many homebrew "fixes" to dragonborn that if it's actually out there on homebrewery or wherever that it's been lost in the noise.
Um.....ok, sorry if I upset you in some way somehow?
I mean, I can point out how people like using lore to explain why something can't be one way while ignoring lore that states clearly that it in fact can be that way.
Also I don't get the logic that 4e muddied the waters of races, the races were all different and had feats and class specializations only members of those races could take. Each race and sub-race just had more options within their own Character creation bubbles for a player to choose.
I don't really get the hostility. Maybe my wording rubbed you the wrong way. Sorry if it did but you don't have to be rude about it.
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
Characters for Tenebris Sine Fine
RoughCoronet's Greater Wills
I'm still not seeing a downside to playing a Kender. What you call being scarred for life is just an awesome and/or tragic backstory.
Do we have an ETA when these options will be available to select as play test content?
The problems with Kenders at a table in 2nd where varied. The Kender caused inter party strife, became the centre of the table, had to get away with things other players would have been harshly punished for, took a lot of time away from other players/things.
My favorite part of this UA is the fact that Kender are never mentioned once in it, the downside to playing a Kender at my table is the instant death they receive before play even begins.
Probably "soon." They tend not to tell us sch things.
Annoying, since this time I actually want to use playtest material and I've got a game that's basically just waiting on me to get my character sheet in before it begins.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Really?
I rather like the newfound flexibility of Draconic Roar...sure, the classic "cowardly" kobold would not likely have a powerful battle-cry...but the fact that the feature specifies that it is a primal release of emotion that can include fear, anger, triumph, etc...means that the kobold is no longer limited to a single archetype, at least as far as mechanics go: they can be scared, or scary.
I like that now I can have one kobold character whose "Draconic Roar" can be frightened "MEEP!" that distracts enemies as the kobold panics...and an entirely DIFFERENT kobold character who is a stalwart paladin whose "Draconic Roar" is a surprising bellow that makes enemies tremble.
I hope that there isn't too much push-back at all...I like the freedom the class feature provides.
The only thing I might change for the new kobold design would be the optional use of their tail as a bludgeoning weapon...it doesn't seem like there would be much "heft" to that sort of attack (funny, though).
It makes more sense if the kobold did piercing damage with their teeth or claws, I feel.
I might go so far as to give a feature relating to "tinkering" in some way...give them a Tool Proficiency that can be used as a spellcasting focus, perhaps...maybe they can construct a rudimentary bomb, weapon, or trap that lets them deliver a powerful effect once per long rest...explosive AOE damage...a +1 weapon / armor design that they can use that subsequently falls apart...or a trap that inflicts the "restrained" condition if the enemy fails the check.
Something like that.
The new breath is too strong... imagine an Level 2 fighter releasing two breaths in one turn... 4d8 in one turn as AoE?! That’s way to strong. Maybe grant him half proficiency as uses...
In my opinion the new kobold is cute and the 10 feet roar is okay.
If I am correct the Dragonborn is the only race with a scaling AoE damage. Giving it more uses can easily break some classes. Right now it is okay but could be stronger, the UA changes are crazy strong. I think either the d8 damage boost or the proficiency use boost.
I would prefer a mix with the new abilities, the old damage, half of the proficiency as uses and maybe the new damage scaling. I like that it scales like the cantrips now.
You're misreading, "Breath Weapon. When you take the Attack action, you can replace one of your attacks with an exhalation of a magical energy" no one gets extra attacks before 5th level. This is the same as casting a spell instead of attacking until then. I know that as is the current damage and uses are practically useless after 5th if you're a melee class unless a lot of enemies w/ crappy saves and hp clump up in front of you its more efficient to melee attack them or cast a real spell.
What I think he might be referring to (especially referencing a level 2 fighter) is the fighter using their action surge right away to use both breath weapons in the same turn. I could be wrong, but this is the way I am reading it and interpreting it.
Ah, didn't think of that, but there are spells that do similiar damage at 2nd level and don't require a save
A flash of light streaks toward a creature of your choice within range. Make a ranged spell attack against the target. On a hit, the target takes 4d6 radiant damage, and the next attack roll made against this target before the end of your next turn has advantage, thanks to the mystical dim light glittering on the target until then.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, the damage increases by 1d6 for each slot level above 1st.
Well, they can do that if they really, really want to burn through all their limited-use abilities in one round. On average they're only going to be dealing a couple more points of damage than a wizard who casts Burning Hands.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.