After much thought increasing the damage die and the number of uses to prof bonus times may be a bit much at the high end, what do any of you who play high level campaigns think the 5d8 will stack up vs your encounters?
I currently have an active high-level campaign (16th-19th). I can guarantee that 5d8 AoE damage that you can use only proficiency-bonus amount of times each day will not break or unbalance any of my encounters. That breath weapon is basically nothing in comparison to prismatic spray or delayed blast fireball.
After much thought increasing the damage die and the number of uses to prof bonus times may be a bit much at the high end, what do any of you who play high level campaigns think the 5d8 will stack up vs your encounters?
5d8 is not a lot of damage at all.
It is a lot for any martial class. How would a normal fighter ever deal this much damage with one attack action? And now imagine that you can as fighter us this several times in one round... no other race can do something like that? There is nothing else that would give an fighter at level 17 six uses of an 5d8 AoE damage, which scales with your proficiency and constitution...
And also don’t compare a spell caster with the race, maybe it will be normal for spell caster to do this much damage with one attack but they only have one attack. Monks, paladins and fighter gets extra attacks things because they can’t do this much damage with one attack and need more attacks to do so...
At 17th level +, 5d8 is not a lot of damage no matter who is doing it.
After much thought increasing the damage die and the number of uses to prof bonus times may be a bit much at the high end, what do any of you who play high level campaigns think the 5d8 will stack up vs your encounters?
I currently have an active high-level campaign (16th-19th). I can guarantee that 5d8 AoE damage that you can use only proficiency-bonus amount of times each day will not break or unbalance any of my encounters. That breath weapon is basically nothing in comparison to prismatic spray or delayed blast fireball.
After much thought increasing the damage die and the number of uses to prof bonus times may be a bit much at the high end, what do any of you who play high level campaigns think the 5d8 will stack up vs your encounters?
5d8 is not a lot of damage at all.
It is a lot for any martial class. How would a normal fighter ever deal this much damage with one attack action? And now imagine that you can as fighter us this several times in one round... no other race can do something like that? There is nothing else that would give an fighter at level 17 six uses of an 5d8 AoE damage, which scales with your proficiency and constitution...
And also don’t compare a spell caster with the race, maybe it will be normal for spell caster to do this much damage with one attack but they only have one attack. Monks, paladins and fighter gets extra attacks things because they can’t do this much damage with one attack and need more attacks to do so...
At 17th level +, 5d8 is not a lot of damage no matter who is doing it.
After much thought increasing the damage die and the number of uses to prof bonus times may be a bit much at the high end, what do any of you who play high level campaigns think the 5d8 will stack up vs your encounters?
I currently have an active high-level campaign (16th-19th). I can guarantee that 5d8 AoE damage that you can use only proficiency-bonus amount of times each day will not break or unbalance any of my encounters. That breath weapon is basically nothing in comparison to prismatic spray or delayed blast fireball.
After much thought increasing the damage die and the number of uses to prof bonus times may be a bit much at the high end, what do any of you who play high level campaigns think the 5d8 will stack up vs your encounters?
5d8 is not a lot of damage at all.
It is a lot for any martial class. How would a normal fighter ever deal this much damage with one attack action? And now imagine that you can as fighter us this several times in one round... no other race can do something like that? There is nothing else that would give an fighter at level 17 six uses of an 5d8 AoE damage, which scales with your proficiency and constitution...
And also don’t compare a spell caster with the race, maybe it will be normal for spell caster to do this much damage with one attack but they only have one attack. Monks, paladins and fighter gets extra attacks things because they can’t do this much damage with one attack and need more attacks to do so...
At 17th level +, 5d8 is not a lot of damage no matter who is doing it.
But what if I use this together with action surge and my extra attacks. Replacing every attack with breaths. I could do 30d8...
you can replace one of your attacks with an exhalation of a magical energy in a 30-foot line that is 5 feet wide.
It would still be a huge damage boost to any martial class...
I hope they intended it that way that you can only use it once per round. Normally they would state “on your round you can replace one attack...” as it is right now, I could still use action surge for two breaths ;) so 10d8 plus my extra attacks. Still a huge damage buff and I could do that combo 3 times a day.
Edit: okay you can use it 2 times not 3 times. Action surge would be the limiting factor...
And your opponent is probably going to make at least one of those saving throws and take only half damage, and might be resistant or outright immune to the damage. While the party's wizard can cast Meteor Swarm, which has a much larger area of effect (and therefore hits more targets), a much greater range, and deals significantly more damage.
you can replace one of your attacks with an exhalation of a magical energy in a 30-foot line that is 5 feet wide.
It would still be a huge damage boost to any martial class...
I hope they intended it that way that you can only use it once per round. Normally they would state “on your round you can replace one attack...” as it is right now, I could still use action surge for two breaths ;) so 10d8 plus my extra attacks. Still a huge damage buff and I could do that combo 3 times a day.
Edit: okay you can use it 2 times not 3 times. Action surge would be the limiting factor...
I still don't have a problem with this. They must use an action surge, 2 of their breath attacks and sacrifice 2 of their Great Weapon Master attacks.
you can replace one of your attacks with an exhalation of a magical energy in a 30-foot line that is 5 feet wide.
It would still be a huge damage boost to any martial class...
I hope they intended it that way that you can only use it once per round. Normally they would state “on your round you can replace one attack...” as it is right now, I could still use action surge for two breaths ;) so 10d8 plus my extra attacks. Still a huge damage buff and I could do that combo 3 times a day.
Edit: okay you can use it 2 times not 3 times. Action surge would be the limiting factor...
I still don't have a problem with this. They must use an action surge, 2 of their breath attacks and sacrifice 2 of their Great Weapon Master attacks.
Let me rephrase it... you would be dumb if you don’t play a dragon born fighter if you want max damage output with your fighter.
The new “Draconic Roar” is a nice boon to their capabilities...as a bonus action (meaning they can use their “Action” to attack or cast a spell on the same turn), they can grant themselves and allies advantage on attack rolls against enemies within 10ft.
This can be done more frequently as the kobold levels up with proficiency.
This has several benefits...the most obvious being that melee or ranged allies now have a better chance to hit.
This also means that the Rogue can now reliably Sneak Attack (due to advantage), the Paladin has a better chance to use their Smite, the Fighter now has advantage on all their attacks, a better chance to critically hit...etc.
It also has potential to mitigate moments where you or the ally have disadvantage on attack rolls...maybe you are in the dark, an ally is prone, or the enemy is obscured.
It is quite a powerful support ability.
The kobold also receives one of three different abilities to better define themselves (Note: it is only ONE ability...I initially made the mistake of thinking they got all three):
A free cantrip from the Sorcerer spell list...
...advantage against being frightened...
...or a bashing tail that can bludgeon for 1d6 + Strength.
Personally, I like the cantrip most.
The fact that the kobold now gains up to three Ability Points instead of only two...and losing their Sunlight Sensitivity...has improved their quality of life by a good margin.
The trade-off is the loss of Pack Tactics...which gave the Kobold advantage on attack rolls if an ally was standing next to them, all the time.
The “Draconic Roar” improves this ability by extending the benefit to allies...but also limits it’s use. A fair trade, I say.
I’m concocting so many different kobold characters now who use their Draconic Roar in different ways...currently, my favorite is a Kobold Bard who mixes their Draconic Roar in with their music, giving them something else to use their Bonus Action on when they aren’t using Bardic Inspiration.
The new “Draconic Roar” is a nice boon to their capabilities...as a bonus action (meaning they can use their “Action” to attack or cast a spell on the same turn), they can grant themselves and allies advantage on attack rolls against enemies within 10ft.
This can be done more frequently as the kobold levels up with proficiency.
This has several benefits...the most obvious being that melee or ranged allies now have a better chance to hit.
This also means that the Rogue can now reliably Sneak Attack (due to advantage), the Paladin has a better chance to use their Smite, the Fighter now has advantage on all their attacks, a better chance to critically hit...etc.
It also has potential to mitigate moments where you or the ally have disadvantage on attack rolls...maybe you are in the dark, an ally is prone, or the enemy is obscured.
It is quite a powerful support ability.
The kobold also receives one of three different abilities to better define themselves (Note: it is only ONE ability...I initially made the mistake of thinking they got all three):
A free cantrip from the Sorcerer spell list...
...advantage against being frightened...
...or a bashing tail that can bludgeon for 1d6 + Strength.
Personally, I like the cantrip most.
The fact that the kobold now gains up to three Ability Points instead of only two...and losing their Sunlight Sensitivity...has improved their quality of life by a good margin.
The trade-off is the loss of Pack Tactics...which gave the Kobold advantage on attack rolls if an ally was standing next to them, all the time.
The “Draconic Roar” improves this ability by extending the benefit to allies...but also limits it’s use. A fair trade, I say.
I’m concocting so many different kobold characters now who use their Draconic Roar in different ways...currently, my favorite is a Kobold Bard who mixes their Draconic Roar in with their music, giving them something else to use their Bonus Action on when they aren’t using Bardic Inspiration.
I personally love the UA Kobold now, I to am making new characters based on this with a Barbarian Wizard just because I can. I wish the speed was 35 but beggars can't be choosers I just think of Kobalds being quick cunning critters.
I really want to make a Kobold Draconic Sorcerer now, make an even more Draconic Kobold. I’ve also considered a Kobold Drakewarden Ranger and a Kobold Ascendant Dragon Monk.
Also a Kobold Paladin would be cool.
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"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
😑 Who wants to take bets on how long this argument is going to last? My guess is indefinitely...
Until the nerfed finished version comes out and everyone is sad about the nerf, like it was the case with Tashas and the ranger 😅 I hope it will be a good version of this UA version and I am looking forward to it 😊
I would love to see these changes but I bet they will make it a bit weaker and it needs some tweaking.
😑 Who wants to take bets on how long this argument is going to last? My guess is indefinitely...
Until the nerfed finished version comes out and everyone is sad about the nerf, like it was the case with Tashas and the ranger 😅 I hope it will be a good version of this UA version and I am looking forward to it 😊
I would love to see these changes but I bet they will make it a bit weaker and it needs some tweaking.
. . . Nah, we'll still be arguing about it, no matter what the result is. I'm with Mezzurah on this one, as much as that result pains me.
Kobolds...why? And why roaring? They're kobolds. At best they might meow loudly. I do kinda dig the whole variable draconic trait thing, kobolds have always been genetically unstable to a degree. That fits. But the roar thing is just odd. I'm not actually sure if this is a better idea than regular kobolds, even with sunlight sensitivity. Perhaps as a separate population/subspecies of the more typical critters, or as a rare mutation amongst more typical populations. The stat block does seem to fit an individual who's markedly, fundamentally different from other kobolds, which could make for interesting stories.
I understand this may have already been pointed out but I don't feel like reading through 8 pages. The roar is literally just the power-creep version of Grovel, Cower, and Beg. Same range and effect, bonus action instead of action, proficiency bonus instead of once a long rest. I feel it's just a mix between the inevitable power-creep and WOTC trying to move away from giving their humanoids perceived negative characteristics.
After much thought increasing the damage die and the number of uses to prof bonus times may be a bit much at the high end, what do any of you who play high level campaigns think the 5d8 will stack up vs your encounters?
I currently have an active high-level campaign (16th-19th). I can guarantee that 5d8 AoE damage that you can use only proficiency-bonus amount of times each day will not break or unbalance any of my encounters. That breath weapon is basically nothing in comparison to prismatic spray or delayed blast fireball.
Anything is better than delayed blast fireball 😂 But I agree, 5d8 is unlikely to be a meaningful amount of damage, especially at higher levels. Most racial damaging abilities dont scale that well, and that would be no exception
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“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
you can replace one of your attacks with an exhalation of a magical energy in a 30-foot line that is 5 feet wide.
It would still be a huge damage boost to any martial class...
I hope they intended it that way that you can only use it once per round. Normally they would state “on your round you can replace one attack...” as it is right now, I could still use action surge for two breaths ;) so 10d8 plus my extra attacks. Still a huge damage buff and I could do that combo 3 times a day.
Edit: okay you can use it 2 times not 3 times. Action surge would be the limiting factor...
I still don't have a problem with this. They must use an action surge, 2 of their breath attacks and sacrifice 2 of their Great Weapon Master attacks.
Let me rephrase it... you would be dumb if you don’t play a dragon born fighter if you want max damage output with your fighter.
Thats like saying you would be dumb not to play an elven fighter to get elven accuracy to max your Crit rate. Its not dumb, its an ok combo but not the be all end all of DPR fighter builds
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
you can replace one of your attacks with an exhalation of a magical energy in a 30-foot line that is 5 feet wide.
It would still be a huge damage boost to any martial class...
I hope they intended it that way that you can only use it once per round. Normally they would state “on your round you can replace one attack...” as it is right now, I could still use action surge for two breaths ;) so 10d8 plus my extra attacks. Still a huge damage buff and I could do that combo 3 times a day.
Edit: okay you can use it 2 times not 3 times. Action surge would be the limiting factor...
I still don't have a problem with this. They must use an action surge, 2 of their breath attacks and sacrifice 2 of their Great Weapon Master attacks.
Let me rephrase it... you would be dumb if you don’t play a dragon born fighter if you want max damage output with your fighter.
Thats like saying you would be dumb not to play an elven fighter to get elven accuracy to max your Crit rate. Its not dumb, its an ok combo but not the be all end all of DPR fighter builds
My husband interjected, that you will have higher average damage with 3 longsword attacks than 5d8. 1d8 + str which is probably +5 + 1 for magic weapon + and +2 for duelist as a base, so 3d8 + 24 vs 2d8 + 15 + 5d8 which you are probably not going to roll max on and have no chance to crit, so your average damage will be much higher just swinging your sword than an attack that half the planet is going to save vs for half damage. I am leaning to d6 damage for breath and prof uses, but it's not that useful regardless, even at d8, because who uses burning hands at 20th level?
I have a paladin in my campaign that used his breathe weapon once at low level and hasn’t used it since. I like the change because we might see some more breathe weapon use. I’m waiting to see them implemented on the site so I can roll up a character with a smattering of the features.
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At 17th level +, 5d8 is not a lot of damage no matter who is doing it.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
But what if I use this together with action surge and my extra attacks. Replacing every attack with breaths. I could do 30d8...
No you can't
you can replace one of your attacks with an exhalation of a magical energy in a 30-foot line that is 5 feet wide.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
It would still be a huge damage boost to any martial class...
I hope they intended it that way that you can only use it once per round. Normally they would state “on your round you can replace one attack...” as it is right now, I could still use action surge for two breaths ;) so 10d8 plus my extra attacks. Still a huge damage buff and I could do that combo 3 times a day.
Edit: okay you can use it 2 times not 3 times. Action surge would be the limiting factor...
And your opponent is probably going to make at least one of those saving throws and take only half damage, and might be resistant or outright immune to the damage. While the party's wizard can cast Meteor Swarm, which has a much larger area of effect (and therefore hits more targets), a much greater range, and deals significantly more damage.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I still don't have a problem with this. They must use an action surge, 2 of their breath attacks and sacrifice 2 of their Great Weapon Master attacks.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Let me rephrase it... you would be dumb if you don’t play a dragon born fighter if you want max damage output with your fighter.
😑 Who wants to take bets on how long this argument is going to last? My guess is indefinitely...
Why does the Kobold seem strong, just curious.
The new “Draconic Roar” is a nice boon to their capabilities...as a bonus action (meaning they can use their “Action” to attack or cast a spell on the same turn), they can grant themselves and allies advantage on attack rolls against enemies within 10ft.
This can be done more frequently as the kobold levels up with proficiency.
This has several benefits...the most obvious being that melee or ranged allies now have a better chance to hit.
This also means that the Rogue can now reliably Sneak Attack (due to advantage), the Paladin has a better chance to use their Smite, the Fighter now has advantage on all their attacks, a better chance to critically hit...etc.
It also has potential to mitigate moments where you or the ally have disadvantage on attack rolls...maybe you are in the dark, an ally is prone, or the enemy is obscured.
It is quite a powerful support ability.
The kobold also receives one of three different abilities to better define themselves (Note: it is only ONE ability...I initially made the mistake of thinking they got all three):
A free cantrip from the Sorcerer spell list...
...advantage against being frightened...
...or a bashing tail that can bludgeon for 1d6 + Strength.
Personally, I like the cantrip most.
The fact that the kobold now gains up to three Ability Points instead of only two...and losing their Sunlight Sensitivity...has improved their quality of life by a good margin.
The trade-off is the loss of Pack Tactics...which gave the Kobold advantage on attack rolls if an ally was standing next to them, all the time.
The “Draconic Roar” improves this ability by extending the benefit to allies...but also limits it’s use. A fair trade, I say.
I’m concocting so many different kobold characters now who use their Draconic Roar in different ways...currently, my favorite is a Kobold Bard who mixes their Draconic Roar in with their music, giving them something else to use their Bonus Action on when they aren’t using Bardic Inspiration.
I don't think a draconic 'roar' works for my vision of kobolds, but otherwise these new kobolds are really cool. I just imagine yips or hisses.
I personally love the UA Kobold now, I to am making new characters based on this with a Barbarian Wizard just because I can. I wish the speed was 35 but beggars can't be choosers I just think of Kobalds being quick cunning critters.
I really want to make a Kobold Draconic Sorcerer now, make an even more Draconic Kobold. I’ve also considered a Kobold Drakewarden Ranger and a Kobold Ascendant Dragon Monk.
Also a Kobold Paladin would be cool.
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
Characters for Tenebris Sine Fine
RoughCoronet's Greater Wills
Until the nerfed finished version comes out and everyone is sad about the nerf, like it was the case with Tashas and the ranger 😅 I hope it will be a good version of this UA version and I am looking forward to it 😊
I would love to see these changes but I bet they will make it a bit weaker and it needs some tweaking.
. . . Nah, we'll still be arguing about it, no matter what the result is. I'm with Mezzurah on this one, as much as that result pains me.
I understand this may have already been pointed out but I don't feel like reading through 8 pages. The roar is literally just the power-creep version of Grovel, Cower, and Beg. Same range and effect, bonus action instead of action, proficiency bonus instead of once a long rest. I feel it's just a mix between the inevitable power-creep and WOTC trying to move away from giving their humanoids perceived negative characteristics.
Anything is better than delayed blast fireball 😂 But I agree, 5d8 is unlikely to be a meaningful amount of damage, especially at higher levels. Most racial damaging abilities dont scale that well, and that would be no exception
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
Thats like saying you would be dumb not to play an elven fighter to get elven accuracy to max your Crit rate. Its not dumb, its an ok combo but not the be all end all of DPR fighter builds
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
My husband interjected, that you will have higher average damage with 3 longsword attacks than 5d8. 1d8 + str which is probably +5 + 1 for magic weapon + and +2 for duelist as a base, so 3d8 + 24 vs 2d8 + 15 + 5d8 which you are probably not going to roll max on and have no chance to crit, so your average damage will be much higher just swinging your sword than an attack that half the planet is going to save vs for half damage. I am leaning to d6 damage for breath and prof uses, but it's not that useful regardless, even at d8, because who uses burning hands at 20th level?
I have a paladin in my campaign that used his breathe weapon once at low level and hasn’t used it since. I like the change because we might see some more breathe weapon use. I’m waiting to see them implemented on the site so I can roll up a character with a smattering of the features.