It's possible if enough people agree with us on this we might see the opposite of what happened when the Archivist Artificer became the Order of Scribes Wizard.
I'm pessimistic enough to think it's not remotely likely... but it's possible.
It's possible if enough people agree with us on this we might see the opposite of what happened when the Archivist Artificer became the Order of Scribes Wizard.
I'm pessimistic enough to think it's not remotely likely... but it's possible.
I think people should try for it they want it. That is supposedly the point of the UA/Survey system. Personally, I don't see why a there would be a "Giant" or Prehistoric" themed subclass for Artificer, but everyone should vote for what they like.
It's possible if enough people agree with us on this we might see the opposite of what happened when the Archivist Artificer became the Order of Scribes Wizard.
I'm pessimistic enough to think it's not remotely likely... but it's possible.
Never going to happen. This should have been an Artificer subclass, but they're never going to print another Artificer subclass unless they reprint the whole class over again in the book. Which is highly unlikely.
It might be possible if the Artificer is present in the 2024 PHB, but only after the new core rulebooks are released. Then any 5e products after it could have as many artificer subclasses as they want . . . but never before then.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
It's possible if enough people agree with us on this we might see the opposite of what happened when the Archivist Artificer became the Order of Scribes Wizard.
I'm pessimistic enough to think it's not remotely likely... but it's possible.
Never going to happen. This should have been an Artificer subclass, but they're never going to print another Artificer subclass unless they reprint the whole class over again in the book. Which is highly unlikely.
It might be possible if the Artificer is present in the 2024 PHB, but only after the new core rulebooks are released. Then any 5e products after it could have as many artificer subclasses as they want . . . but never before then.
Logically, I agree with you. But stubborn hope is stubborn, and even though it may be crushed many times over, it never dies.
Hey, I admire the dedication. I also share the love of the Artificer class and wish that WotC would let new Artificer subclasses be printed right now. But I highly doubt that they'd give up their whole "you only need the 3 Core Rulebooks and this book in order to use all of the content in this book"-shtick. It's extremely user-friendly, even if it has its downsides (redundant content by the people that own every book, making it impossible to print new Artificer subclasses after Tasha's, etc).
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
I'm willing to wait for the 2024 PHB if need be, but in the meantime I will be making my position clear in every UA feedback survey until then or they address this issue (not even necessarily fix, mind, just address).
But honestly if they weren't ever going to make additional subclasses for the Artificer going forwards they shouldn't have even made the base class in 5e, or never ported it to Tasha's. Alternately, they should have printed a veritable buttload of artificer subclasses in Tasha's.
Dino-druid sounds really fun and at it's core it's a druid so it won't be bad. That being said it could definitely use a few tweaks.
history proficiency looks really weak next to the improved spell list given to wildfire druids. A strong/useable dino companion would make up for this but currently the dino-companion seems like the weakest/least adaptable of the pet class companions (compare to tasha's beast companion, wildfire spirit, ranger drake, steel defender).
Dino-buddy needs magical damage at some point or it's going to become irrelevant in a lot of fights. It never gets a ranged attack and can never fly so it's already going to need help getting involved. Steel defenders start off doing force damage, wildfire spirits start out doing ranged fire damage, and drake companions get elemental damage by level 7; dino's shouldn't be left out. Beastmaster companions are the only other companions that don't do magic damage at any level but they at least get to either knock prone or grapple for free when they land an attack against creatures of any size so they stay relevant even when they can't do damage. EDIT: As was pointed out below, all beastmaster companions get magic damage at level 7; this makes it even more clear primeval pals need a buff.
Dino-buddy should be large by level 6. They could keep the swim/climb ability until level 10 if the designers really need more for that level. Ranger drakes can fly and serve as a mount by level 7 (although not at the same time). Wildfire spirits can teleport with friends from level 2. Beast companions have faster than normal speed and get to climb, swim, or fly from level 3. Since dino-pal can never fly and has a pretty slow move speed until lvl 14 it's not a big deal to let us use them as mounts within the level range most campaigns operate. Otherwise dino companions are just tasha's beastmaster companions with 5 hp more and the ability to absorb a little damage but without the ability to choose different types of creatures. Noteworthy that ranger beast companions can grapple or knock prone creatures of any size starting at level 3. It's pretty silly that dino creatures can't do that until level 10 and even then they have to dedicate their entire attack action to the attempt. Being large early would do a bit to at least bring dino companions on par with tasha's beast companions. It would also compensate for the lackluster nature of the current lvl 6 ability. Being somewhat better at missing our dino-buddy with AOE doesn't give us much as we should be doing everything possible to avoid targeting our buddy to begin with. We're more likely to be using area control spells than area damage spells and while advantage is nice our DC is hopefully pretty high so advantage is far from safe.
"Path of the Giant" is pulling me back to Barbarian is the best ways...
"Elemental Cleaver" is so evocative...I picture a warhammer dripping with molten magma, which hurls at targets, exploding into lava...and then just flowing back into hammer form in the barbarian's grip.
"Mighty Impel" just sounds like it will be so much FUN with party members...toss the Rogue up a building on stealth missions...save the Wizard...by CHUCKING them out of harm's way...etc.
"Runecrafter" needs a name change...but I LOVE it on the Wizard.
Having "Comprehend Languages" on-demand is appropriately on-theme.
The resource management for the runes I actually kind of dig...you get some decent buffs that scale pretty swell with spell slot level...and while you might expend them rather quickly at times, you then get some back every time you use "Arcane Recovery". That's pretty cohesive.
I even like the capstone...it has a very "bounty hunter" feel to it; marking a target to weaken, track & hurt it.
Mighty Impel knocking people prone whether they take fall damage or not is.. a weird decision that irks me. Falling rules already state that a creature is knocked prone when it takes falling damage.
Also, most of the feats should be at least Half-Feats considering they're just not good enough to compete with other feats. It's hurting my soul that most of those feats are doing stuff I really, really wanted for my characters for a while now and they're just bad.
Agree that Wizard should've been Artificer instead.
One thing a buddy of mine pointed out when we talked about it last night.
Something else hit me about that Giant Barb while I was trying to fall asleep. Normally + to-hit caps at +11. If you got to 16 Barb, you'd get +15. If you get a +3 Weapon you're now at +18 to-hit. In order to miss a 20AC monster you'd literally have to roll a natural 1... and you've still got reckless attack to prevent that. On average Reckless adds around +5. The to-hit chance on this thing would be monsterous, even at really high tiers of play.
Granted high levels of play are rarely reached, and other classes at those levels are already busted anyway. Thoughts?
Hey, I admire the dedication. I also share the love of the Artificer class and wish that WotC would let new Artificer subclasses be printed right now. But I highly doubt that they'd give up their whole "you only need the 3 Core Rulebooks and this book in order to use all of the content in this book"-shtick. It's extremely user-friendly, even if it has its downsides (redundant content by the people that own every book, making it impossible to print new Artificer subclasses after Tasha's, etc).
Wait. I thought the MotM bundle released earlier this year officially added Xanathar's and Tasha's as core rulebooks along with the PHB, DMG, and MM
Dino-druid sounds really fun and at it's core it's a druid so it won't be bad. That being it could definitely use a few tweaks.
history proficiency looks really weak next to the improved spell list given to wildfire druids. A strong/useable dino companion would make up for this but currently the dino-companion seems like the weakest/least adaptable of the pet class companions (compare to tasha's beast companion, wildfire spirit, ranger drake, steel defender).
Dino-buddy needs magical damage at some point or it's going to become irrelevant in a lot of fights. It never gets a ranged attack and can never fly so it's already going to need help getting involved. Steel defenders start off doing force damage, wildfire spirits start out doing ranged fire damage, and drake companions get elemental damage by level 7; dino's shouldn't be left out. Beastmaster companions are the only other companions that don't do magic damage at any level but they at least get to either knock prone or grapple for free when they land an attack against creatures of any size so they stay relevant even when they can't do damage.
Dino-buddy should be large by level 6. They could keep the swim/climb ability until level 10 if the designers really need more for that level. Ranger drakes can fly and serve as a mount by level 7 (although not at the same time). Wildfire spirits can teleport with friends from level 2. Beast companions have faster than normal speed and get to climb, swim, or fly from level 3. Since dino-pal can never fly and has a pretty slow move speed until lvl 14 it's not a big deal to let us use them as mounts within the level range most campaigns operate. Otherwise dino companions are just tasha's beastmaster companions with 5 hp more and the ability to absorb a little damage but without the ability to choose different types of creatures. Noteworthy that ranger beast companions can grapple or knock prone creatures of any size starting at level 3. It's pretty silly that dino creatures can't do that until level 10 and even then they have to dedicate their entire attack action to the attempt. Being large early would do a bit to at least bring dino companions on par with tasha's beast companions. It would also compensate for the lackluster nature of the current lvl 6 ability. Being somewhat better at missing our dino-buddy with AOE doesn't give us much as we should be doing everything possible to avoid targeting our buddy to begin with. We're more likely to be using area control spells than area damage spells and while advantage is nice our DC is hopefully pretty high so advantage is far from safe.
Minor correction, but Beast Master companions (both OG and Tasha's) deal magical damage starting at level 7.
One thing a buddy of mine pointed out when we talked about it last night.
Something else hit me about that Giant Barb while I was trying to fall asleep. Normally + to-hit caps at +11. If you got to 16 Barb, you'd get +15. If you get a +3 Weapon you're now at +18 to-hit. In order to miss a 20AC monster you'd literally have to roll a natural 1... and you've still got reckless attack to prevent that. On average Reckless adds around +5. The to-hit chance on this thing would be monsterous, even at really high tiers of play.
Granted high levels of play are rarely reached, and other classes at those levels are already busted anyway. Thoughts?
Where exactly are you getting those numbers from? Specifically how are you going from +11 to +15 at level 16? There's nothing at that level that grants any sort of additional bonus to attack. And Barbarian Path subclass abilities tap out at level 14.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I like the Path of the Giant; it's big and silly, and seems reasonably balanced.
Circle of the Primeval I'm unsure of; it seems too similar to a Ranger Beast Master but better, doesn't seem very balanced and I'm not sure about it conceptually. It could be fun thanks to the big creatures you can get, but yeah… it feels like something that could be added as an option to Beast Master like a new special Primal Companion?
Runecrafter feels weird as a Wizard sub-class to me; either it should be a Sorcerer sub-class focused on runic magic, or some kind of Artificer focused on crafting runes (as the name suggests), Wizard doesn't feel like a good fit IMO.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Dino-druid sounds really fun and at it's core it's a druid so it won't be bad. That being it could definitely use a few tweaks.
history proficiency looks really weak next to the improved spell list given to wildfire druids. A strong/useable dino companion would make up for this but currently the dino-companion seems like the weakest/least adaptable of the pet class companions (compare to tasha's beast companion, wildfire spirit, ranger drake, steel defender).
Dino-buddy needs magical damage at some point or it's going to become irrelevant in a lot of fights. It never gets a ranged attack and can never fly so it's already going to need help getting involved. Steel defenders start off doing force damage, wildfire spirits start out doing ranged fire damage, and drake companions get elemental damage by level 7; dino's shouldn't be left out. Beastmaster companions are the only other companions that don't do magic damage at any level but they at least get to either knock prone or grapple for free when they land an attack against creatures of any size so they stay relevant even when they can't do damage.
Dino-buddy should be large by level 6. They could keep the swim/climb ability until level 10 if the designers really need more for that level. Ranger drakes can fly and serve as a mount by level 7 (although not at the same time). Wildfire spirits can teleport with friends from level 2. Beast companions have faster than normal speed and get to climb, swim, or fly from level 3. Since dino-pal can never fly and has a pretty slow move speed until lvl 14 it's not a big deal to let us use them as mounts within the level range most campaigns operate. Otherwise dino companions are just tasha's beastmaster companions with 5 hp more and the ability to absorb a little damage but without the ability to choose different types of creatures. Noteworthy that ranger beast companions can grapple or knock prone creatures of any size starting at level 3. It's pretty silly that dino creatures can't do that until level 10 and even then they have to dedicate their entire attack action to the attempt. Being large early would do a bit to at least bring dino companions on par with tasha's beast companions. It would also compensate for the lackluster nature of the current lvl 6 ability. Being somewhat better at missing our dino-buddy with AOE doesn't give us much as we should be doing everything possible to avoid targeting our buddy to begin with. We're more likely to be using area control spells than area damage spells and while advantage is nice our DC is hopefully pretty high so advantage is far from safe.
Minor correction, but Beast Master companions (both OG and Tasha's) deal magical damage starting at level 7.
Good catch; I wasn't looking at the base kit. Makes the omission here even more glaring.
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Let WOTC know when the feedback survey comes out.
It's possible if enough people agree with us on this we might see the opposite of what happened when the Archivist Artificer became the Order of Scribes Wizard.
I'm pessimistic enough to think it's not remotely likely... but it's possible.
I think people should try for it they want it. That is supposedly the point of the UA/Survey system. Personally, I don't see why a there would be a "Giant" or Prehistoric" themed subclass for Artificer, but everyone should vote for what they like.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Very powerful options this time, so I expect that they'll all be nerfed to the Abyss before publication.
Which leads me to ask what product these would likely show up in?
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
It seems to me that they are using much less restraint in design this time around.
Never going to happen. This should have been an Artificer subclass, but they're never going to print another Artificer subclass unless they reprint the whole class over again in the book. Which is highly unlikely.
It might be possible if the Artificer is present in the 2024 PHB, but only after the new core rulebooks are released. Then any 5e products after it could have as many artificer subclasses as they want . . . but never before then.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Logically, I agree with you. But stubborn hope is stubborn, and even though it may be crushed many times over, it never dies.
Hey, I admire the dedication. I also share the love of the Artificer class and wish that WotC would let new Artificer subclasses be printed right now. But I highly doubt that they'd give up their whole "you only need the 3 Core Rulebooks and this book in order to use all of the content in this book"-shtick. It's extremely user-friendly, even if it has its downsides (redundant content by the people that own every book, making it impossible to print new Artificer subclasses after Tasha's, etc).
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I'm willing to wait for the 2024 PHB if need be, but in the meantime I will be making my position clear in every UA feedback survey until then or they address this issue (not even necessarily fix, mind, just address).
But honestly if they weren't ever going to make additional subclasses for the Artificer going forwards they shouldn't have even made the base class in 5e, or never ported it to Tasha's. Alternately, they should have printed a veritable buttload of artificer subclasses in Tasha's.
The giant barbarian looks pretty solid.
Dino-druid sounds really fun and at it's core it's a druid so it won't be bad. That being said it could definitely use a few tweaks.
history proficiency looks really weak next to the improved spell list given to wildfire druids. A strong/useable dino companion would make up for this but currently the dino-companion seems like the weakest/least adaptable of the pet class companions (compare to tasha's beast companion, wildfire spirit, ranger drake, steel defender).
Dino-buddy needs magical damage at some point or it's going to become irrelevant in a lot of fights. It never gets a ranged attack and can never fly so it's already going to need help getting involved. Steel defenders start off doing force damage, wildfire spirits start out doing ranged fire damage, and drake companions get elemental damage by level 7; dino's shouldn't be left out. Beastmaster companions
are the only other companions that don't do magic damage at any level but theyat least get to either knock prone or grapple for free when they land an attack against creatures of any size so they stay relevanteven when they can't do damage. EDIT: As was pointed out below, all beastmaster companions get magic damage at level 7; this makes it even more clear primeval pals need a buff.Dino-buddy should be large by level 6. They could keep the swim/climb ability until level 10 if the designers really need more for that level. Ranger drakes can fly and serve as a mount by level 7 (although not at the same time). Wildfire spirits can teleport with friends from level 2. Beast companions have faster than normal speed and get to climb, swim, or fly from level 3. Since dino-pal can never fly and has a pretty slow move speed until lvl 14 it's not a big deal to let us use them as mounts within the level range most campaigns operate. Otherwise dino companions are just tasha's beastmaster companions with 5 hp more and the ability to absorb a little damage but without the ability to choose different types of creatures. Noteworthy that ranger beast companions can grapple or knock prone creatures of any size starting at level 3. It's pretty silly that dino creatures can't do that until level 10 and even then they have to dedicate their entire attack action to the attempt. Being large early would do a bit to at least bring dino companions on par with tasha's beast companions. It would also compensate for the lackluster nature of the current lvl 6 ability. Being somewhat better at missing our dino-buddy with AOE doesn't give us much as we should be doing everything possible to avoid targeting our buddy to begin with. We're more likely to be using area control spells than area damage spells and while advantage is nice our DC is hopefully pretty high so advantage is far from safe.
"Path of the Giant" is pulling me back to Barbarian is the best ways...
"Elemental Cleaver" is so evocative...I picture a warhammer dripping with molten magma, which hurls at targets, exploding into lava...and then just flowing back into hammer form in the barbarian's grip.
"Mighty Impel" just sounds like it will be so much FUN with party members...toss the Rogue up a building on stealth missions...save the Wizard...by CHUCKING them out of harm's way...etc.
"Runecrafter" needs a name change...but I LOVE it on the Wizard.
Having "Comprehend Languages" on-demand is appropriately on-theme.
The resource management for the runes I actually kind of dig...you get some decent buffs that scale pretty swell with spell slot level...and while you might expend them rather quickly at times, you then get some back every time you use "Arcane Recovery". That's pretty cohesive.
I even like the capstone...it has a very "bounty hunter" feel to it; marking a target to weaken, track & hurt it.
Giant barb is awesome! Dino druid is awesome!
Rune wizard should be an artificer subclass. It suits way more.
The feats are really cool! So happy to see fat trees back! And the elemental themes will be super nice for genasi!
Air genasi with elemental touched, and the cloud and storm rune feats would be so thematic!
Mighty Impel knocking people prone whether they take fall damage or not is.. a weird decision that irks me.
Falling rules already state that a creature is knocked prone when it takes falling damage.
Also, most of the feats should be at least Half-Feats considering they're just not good enough to compete with other feats.
It's hurting my soul that most of those feats are doing stuff I really, really wanted for my characters for a while now and they're just bad.
Agree that Wizard should've been Artificer instead.
Runes should stay with Wizards.
One thing a buddy of mine pointed out when we talked about it last night.
Granted high levels of play are rarely reached, and other classes at those levels are already busted anyway. Thoughts?
Wait. I thought the MotM bundle released earlier this year officially added Xanathar's and Tasha's as core rulebooks along with the PHB, DMG, and MM
Minor correction, but Beast Master companions (both OG and Tasha's) deal magical damage starting at level 7.
Where exactly are you getting those numbers from? Specifically how are you going from +11 to +15 at level 16? There's nothing at that level that grants any sort of additional bonus to attack. And Barbarian Path subclass abilities tap out at level 14.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I like the Path of the Giant; it's big and silly, and seems reasonably balanced.
Circle of the Primeval I'm unsure of; it seems too similar to a Ranger Beast Master but better, doesn't seem very balanced and I'm not sure about it conceptually. It could be fun thanks to the big creatures you can get, but yeah… it feels like something that could be added as an option to Beast Master like a new special Primal Companion?
Runecrafter feels weird as a Wizard sub-class to me; either it should be a Sorcerer sub-class focused on runic magic, or some kind of Artificer focused on crafting runes (as the name suggests), Wizard doesn't feel like a good fit IMO.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Runecrafting makes sense for an artificer. Wizard already nabbed the archivist subclass from artificer.
Wizard has 13 subclasses. Artificer has... 4.
Good catch; I wasn't looking at the base kit. Makes the omission here even more glaring.