It is better, but I still wish they would make it more clear that you can use a Shove to break free of a grapple, since this is often the best option once melees get Extra Attack. I've had to explain this to my players many many times.
It is better, but I still wish they would make it more clear that you can use a Shove to break free of a grapple, since this is often the best option once melees get Extra Attack. I've had to explain this to my players many many times.
Maybe they could add the line, like in the 5E description: "The condition also ends if an effect removes the grappled creature from the reach of the grappler or grappling effect, such as when a creature is hurled away by the thunderwave spell or a shove.
So a grappled creature would have the option to either Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check, or make an unarmed strike and attempt a shove (DC 8+STR mod+PB) which would require both a successful "to hit" by the grappled and a failed save by the grappler.
I hope they make it so that Girallons and Giant Apes get to be decent grapplers. There is no Unarmed Strike in their stat blocks, but it makes sense that they would be able to grapple decently.
I hope they make it so that Girallons and Giant Apes get to be decent grapplers. There is no Unarmed Strike in their stat blocks, but it makes sense that they would be able to grapple decently.
Giant apes and girallons have high strengths, so their odds of grappling successfully are high. Every creature can Unarmed Strike, whether or not its in their statblock.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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I hope they make it so that Girallons and Giant Apes get to be decent grapplers. There is no Unarmed Strike in their stat blocks, but it makes sense that they would be able to grapple decently.
Giant apes and girallons have high strengths, so their odds of grappling successfully are high. Every creature can Unarmed Strike, whether or not its in their statblock.
You're probably right. Where in the UA material does it state that? I know that some DMs just handwave that kind of thing but others are real sticklers to RAW - if it's not in the statblock or the description, they doubt it can happen.
I hope they make it so that Girallons and Giant Apes get to be decent grapplers. There is no Unarmed Strike in their stat blocks, but it makes sense that they would be able to grapple decently.
Giant apes and girallons have high strengths, so their odds of grappling successfully are high. Every creature can Unarmed Strike, whether or not its in their statblock.
You're probably right. Where in the UA material does it state that? I know that some DMs just handwave that kind of thing but others are real sticklers to RAW - if it's not in the statblock or the description, they doubt it can happen.
When you take the Attack action, you can make an Unarmed Strike. Nothing in the rules implies that the attack action is only available to players.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
You're probably right. Where in the UA material does it state that? I know that some DMs just handwave that kind of thing but others are real sticklers to RAW - if it's not in the statblock or the description, they doubt it can happen.
Nothing changed between UA and 5e; creatures have always been able to take generic actions, only special actions need to be listed on the stat block.
You're probably right. Where in the UA material does it state that? I know that some DMs just handwave that kind of thing but others are real sticklers to RAW - if it's not in the statblock or the description, they doubt it can happen.
Nothing changed between UA and 5e; creatures have always been able to take generic actions, only special actions need to be listed on the stat block.
Yep. Pretty much falls under Actions in Combat that all creatures can do.
You're probably right. Where in the UA material does it state that? I know that some DMs just handwave that kind of thing but others are real sticklers to RAW - if it's not in the statblock or the description, they doubt it can happen.
Nothing changed between UA and 5e; creatures have always been able to take generic actions, only special actions need to be listed on the stat block.
Okay, but then I could see something like a Hydra becoming one of the best grapplers. Sitting on 20 STR and having five independent attacks all with +8 to hit.
You're probably right. Where in the UA material does it state that? I know that some DMs just handwave that kind of thing but others are real sticklers to RAW - if it's not in the statblock or the description, they doubt it can happen.
Nothing changed between UA and 5e; creatures have always been able to take generic actions, only special actions need to be listed on the stat block.
Okay, but then I could see something like a Hydra becoming one of the best grapplers. Sitting on 20 STR and having five independent attacks all with +8 to hit.
I think they would have to take the Attack action instead of their Multiattack ability in order to make an Unarmed Strike, which means a hydra would have to use their whole action to make one grapple. Anyways, I don't see much wrong with hydras being good at grappling. They've got a lot of maws to grapple with, after all.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
You're probably right. Where in the UA material does it state that? I know that some DMs just handwave that kind of thing but others are real sticklers to RAW - if it's not in the statblock or the description, they doubt it can happen.
Nothing changed between UA and 5e; creatures have always been able to take generic actions, only special actions need to be listed on the stat block.
Okay, but then I could see something like a Hydra becoming one of the best grapplers. Sitting on 20 STR and having five independent attacks all with +8 to hit.
I think they would have to take the Attack action instead of their Multiattack ability in order to make an Unarmed Strike, which means a hydra would have to use their whole action to make one grapple. Anyways, I don't see much wrong with hydras being good at grappling. They've got a lot of maws to grapple with, after all.
You're probably right. Where in the UA material does it state that? I know that some DMs just handwave that kind of thing but others are real sticklers to RAW - if it's not in the statblock or the description, they doubt it can happen.
Nothing changed between UA and 5e; creatures have always been able to take generic actions, only special actions need to be listed on the stat block.
Okay, but then I could see something like a Hydra becoming one of the best grapplers. Sitting on 20 STR and having five independent attacks all with +8 to hit.
I think they would have to take the Attack action instead of their Multiattack ability in order to make an Unarmed Strike, which means a hydra would have to use their whole action to make one grapple. Anyways, I don't see much wrong with hydras being good at grappling. They've got a lot of maws to grapple with, after all.
In that case, wouldn't most creatures with Multiattack not want to grapple? This is what I mean about statblock actions (that I had trouble articulating earlier). A Girallon has 4 arms. Giving up 4 attacks to do 1 attack with the possibility of grappling is absolutely terrible for its action economy. But it's entirely reasonable for a Girallon to be good at grappling since it has 4 hands and should be able to do multiple grapples each round so long as it has hands free. In fact, it should be as good or better grappler than the Hydra because the Girallon has actual hands that, you know, grip stuff.
You're probably right. Where in the UA material does it state that? I know that some DMs just handwave that kind of thing but others are real sticklers to RAW - if it's not in the statblock or the description, they doubt it can happen.
Nothing changed between UA and 5e; creatures have always been able to take generic actions, only special actions need to be listed on the stat block.
Okay, but then I could see something like a Hydra becoming one of the best grapplers. Sitting on 20 STR and having five independent attacks all with +8 to hit.
I think they would have to take the Attack action instead of their Multiattack ability in order to make an Unarmed Strike, which means a hydra would have to use their whole action to make one grapple. Anyways, I don't see much wrong with hydras being good at grappling. They've got a lot of maws to grapple with, after all.
In that case, wouldn't most creatures with Multiattack not want to grapple? This is what I mean about statblock actions (that I had trouble articulating earlier). A Girallon has 4 arms. Giving up 4 attacks to do 1 attack with the possibility of grappling is absolutely terrible for its action economy. But it's entirely reasonable for a Girallon to be good at grappling since it has 4 hands and should be able to do multiple grapples each round so long as it has hands free. In fact, it should be as good or better grappler than the Hydra because the Girallon has actual hands that, you know, grip stuff.
I think they would have to take the Attack action instead of their Multiattack ability in order to make an Unarmed Strike
Depends how the multiattack is worded. Most multiattacks do specify exactly what abilities can be used, so none of them can be replaced by an unarmed strike, but there are some which just let the monster make X attacks.
Which is the expected answer in the Rules thread, but this is the UA thread, which is why I'm bringing up this subject. If a Wiz casts Shapechange on the party Fighter to make them into a Girallon, it shouldn't be more difficult to Grapple while still retaining access to a sensible (for a 4 armed creature) number of attacks. What's the point of having an STR of 18 and multiple hands if grabbing people makes you a quantitatively worse combatant than not grabbing people?
I think they would have to take the Attack action instead of their Multiattack ability in order to make an Unarmed Strike
Depends how the multiattack is worded. Most multiattacks do specify exactly what abilities can be used, so none of them can be replaced by an unarmed strike, but there are some which just let the monster make X attacks.
IMO that's a major issue. Multiattack is a mess, it should work just like extra attack for PCs. If a creature has one special attack they can only do 1/turn it should be made a Bonus Action.
Hydra specifically says it can make bite attacks with multiattack and Girallon says a bite and 4 claw attacks. Aren’t those special attacks and unarmed strikes would only be 1+STR mod damage or the grapple/shove options in 1D&D?
As a DM, I would like (RAW) to be able to replace any of a monster's multi-attack with an Unarmed Strike, specifically the Grapple/Shove. I forgot to mention it in the last survey, but I hope to mention it in the next survey.
As a DM, I would like (RAW) to be able to replace any of a monster's multi-attack with an Unarmed Strike, specifically the Grapple/Shove. I forgot to mention it in the last survey, but I hope to mention it in the next survey.
Agreed. I wasn't aware of the last survey on this topic.
That said, I'm not sure that a Hydra should be better at grappling than a Girallon. I think a bit more nuance than just having higher Strength stat should be needed to be good at grappling.
Hydra specifically says it can make bite attacks with multiattack and Girallon says a bite and 4 claw attacks. Aren’t those special attacks and unarmed strikes would only be 1+STR mod damage or the grapple/shove options in 1D&D?
That is the point I was trying to make. A Girallon is giving up 5 attacks via Multiattack in order to try ONCE to grapple an opponent. That makes no logical sense, but a lot of DMs will say that's what needs to happen because no grapple feature is printed in the statblock.
On the other hand, I am not convinced that a 20 STR Hydra should be better at grappling than an 18 STR Girallon since the latter has actual hands, unlike the Hydra.
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It is better, but I still wish they would make it more clear that you can use a Shove to break free of a grapple, since this is often the best option once melees get Extra Attack. I've had to explain this to my players many many times.
Maybe they could add the line, like in the 5E description: "The condition also ends if an effect removes the grappled creature from the reach of the grappler or grappling effect, such as when a creature is hurled away by the thunderwave spell or a shove.
So a grappled creature would have the option to either Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check, or make an unarmed strike and attempt a shove (DC 8+STR mod+PB) which would require both a successful "to hit" by the grappled and a failed save by the grappler.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
I hope they make it so that Girallons and Giant Apes get to be decent grapplers. There is no Unarmed Strike in their stat blocks, but it makes sense that they would be able to grapple decently.
Giant apes and girallons have high strengths, so their odds of grappling successfully are high. Every creature can Unarmed Strike, whether or not its in their statblock.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
You're probably right. Where in the UA material does it state that? I know that some DMs just handwave that kind of thing but others are real sticklers to RAW - if it's not in the statblock or the description, they doubt it can happen.
When you take the Attack action, you can make an Unarmed Strike. Nothing in the rules implies that the attack action is only available to players.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Nothing changed between UA and 5e; creatures have always been able to take generic actions, only special actions need to be listed on the stat block.
Yep. Pretty much falls under Actions in Combat that all creatures can do.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Okay, but then I could see something like a Hydra becoming one of the best grapplers. Sitting on 20 STR and having five independent attacks all with +8 to hit.
I think they would have to take the Attack action instead of their Multiattack ability in order to make an Unarmed Strike, which means a hydra would have to use their whole action to make one grapple. Anyways, I don't see much wrong with hydras being good at grappling. They've got a lot of maws to grapple with, after all.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Correct.
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In that case, wouldn't most creatures with Multiattack not want to grapple? This is what I mean about statblock actions (that I had trouble articulating earlier). A Girallon has 4 arms. Giving up 4 attacks to do 1 attack with the possibility of grappling is absolutely terrible for its action economy. But it's entirely reasonable for a Girallon to be good at grappling since it has 4 hands and should be able to do multiple grapples each round so long as it has hands free. In fact, it should be as good or better grappler than the Hydra because the Girallon has actual hands that, you know, grip stuff.
That’s just the way the rules work.
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Depends how the multiattack is worded. Most multiattacks do specify exactly what abilities can be used, so none of them can be replaced by an unarmed strike, but there are some which just let the monster make X attacks.
Which is the expected answer in the Rules thread, but this is the UA thread, which is why I'm bringing up this subject. If a Wiz casts Shapechange on the party Fighter to make them into a Girallon, it shouldn't be more difficult to Grapple while still retaining access to a sensible (for a 4 armed creature) number of attacks. What's the point of having an STR of 18 and multiple hands if grabbing people makes you a quantitatively worse combatant than not grabbing people?
IMO that's a major issue. Multiattack is a mess, it should work just like extra attack for PCs. If a creature has one special attack they can only do 1/turn it should be made a Bonus Action.
Hydra specifically says it can make bite attacks with multiattack and Girallon says a bite and 4 claw attacks. Aren’t those special attacks and unarmed strikes would only be 1+STR mod damage or the grapple/shove options in 1D&D?
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
As a DM, I would like (RAW) to be able to replace any of a monster's multi-attack with an Unarmed Strike, specifically the Grapple/Shove. I forgot to mention it in the last survey, but I hope to mention it in the next survey.
Agreed. I wasn't aware of the last survey on this topic.
That said, I'm not sure that a Hydra should be better at grappling than a Girallon. I think a bit more nuance than just having higher Strength stat should be needed to be good at grappling.
That is the point I was trying to make. A Girallon is giving up 5 attacks via Multiattack in order to try ONCE to grapple an opponent. That makes no logical sense, but a lot of DMs will say that's what needs to happen because no grapple feature is printed in the statblock.
On the other hand, I am not convinced that a 20 STR Hydra should be better at grappling than an 18 STR Girallon since the latter has actual hands, unlike the Hydra.