Sounds like if you can cast a spell with the ritual tag, you can cast it as a ritual irrelevant of any class features. This sounds like an interesting change and gives a lot more classes access to ritual spells, this also makes magic initiate a very interesting way to get a hold of a ritual not normally accessible to your class, since you no longer need a class feature. I have to say I like the sounds of this change.
Though I imagine find familiar would be a top pick for non-casters if so.
Unusual that somebody would need to cast that more often than once a day, poor familiar! I think Detect Magic, Tenser's Floating Disk, Identify and those sorts are interesting from the ritual perspective since you could end out casting all of those more than once a day, as a non-caster, those are now a lot more viable.
Though I imagine find familiar would be a top pick for non-casters if so.
Unusual that somebody would need to cast that more often than once a day, poor familiar! I think Detect Magic, Tenser's Floating Disk, Identify and those sorts are interesting from the ritual perspective since you could end out casting all of those more than once a day, as a non-caster, those are now a lot more viable.
Oh no, I didn't necessarily mean the familiar would absolutely get murdered, though that does happen sometimes (especially if you have a mean DM). No I meant even now, that would be a top pick, moreso now that you can afford to cast it more than once if need be.
Also what that does mean is that ritual spells you take as a caster without Ritual Casting might have a lot more appeal now. Like taking contact other plane or comprehend languages as a non-Tome Warlock.
It's fairly marginal -- bard, cleric, druid, sorcerer, and wizard already had ritual casting, and is it that big a deal if someone else in the party can ritually cast detect magic or some such?
It's fairly marginal -- bard, cleric, druid, sorcerer, and wizard already had ritual casting, and is it that big a deal if someone else in the party can ritually cast detect magic or some such?
I think it's a big deal in the sense that it helps prop up stuff like Magic Initiate even by a little bit, so it means that if you as a Fighter for instance take a feat like that, and you choose something like detect magic or identify, you can use it as many times as you want, as opposed to once per long rest.
Though I imagine find familiar would be a top pick for non-casters if so.
Unusual that somebody would need to cast that more often than once a day, poor familiar! I think Detect Magic, Tenser's Floating Disk, Identify and those sorts are interesting from the ritual perspective since you could end out casting all of those more than once a day, as a non-caster, those are now a lot more viable.
Oh no, I didn't necessarily mean the familiar would absolutely get murdered, though that does happen sometimes (especially if you have a mean DM). No I meant even now, that would be a top pick, moreso now that you can afford to cast it more than once if need be.
Also what that does mean is that ritual spells you take as a caster without Ritual Casting might have a lot more appeal now. Like taking contact other plane or comprehend languages as a non-Tome Warlock.
Unseen servant definitely will be the source of some non-caster shenanigans, speak with animals definitely will be a fun one for the pokemo.... I mean animal lovers in the party. And yes, for Warlock this is a much needed buff. You'd think the people that make pacts with devils, weapons or celestial beings would generally be of the ritual persuasion.
I'm not sure spellcasters needed a boost, but until we see what they are doing with martials its hard to know if its good or not.
I don't think it's really a boost to caster, since most of the casters already had it, it was the half-casters, 1/3rd casters and whatever you want to call Warlock that lacked it. It just means the party overall can get a better spread of ritual spells.
Honestly, the more I think about this change the more I like it. Originally I was a little sour on it, but that means we don't need to take a feat + magic initiate to give like a Ranger or a paladin who specializes in hunting evil magic the ability to cast things like detect magic as a ritual. This also means there is less confusion at the table for new players. I don't know how many times I have seen "oh this has the ritual tag so I can cast it as a ritual and not spend a spell slot", only for the GM to remind them they need the ritual casting feature to do that. Again stream lined.
I'm not sure spellcasters needed a boost, but until we see what they are doing with martials its hard to know if its good or not.
I don't think it's really a boost to caster, since most of the casters already had it, it was the half-casters, 1/3rd casters and whatever you want to call Warlock that lacked it. It just means the party overall can get a better spread of ritual spells.
I guess it sort of depends on what he meant if you can cast a spell and it has a ritual tag you can cast it as a ritual. Currently other than wizard that meant you had to have it known or prepared. If that is there yeah its just a boost to a few classes though I would not downplay how big it can be for them, if he is saying you can cast it as long as its on your list or maybe it needs to be known for known casters but not prepared for like clerics then its a solid boost for them as well. But you can cast the spell seemed a bit more open to me than have it prepared, its a one off sentence though so who knows.
And the thing is the out of combat time where rituals shine is the area that casters even half casters really start to show the gap between pure martials, and that is the area they should be narrowing not widening. I'd say allow anyone to own a spell book, allow anyone to add ritual spells into it and as long as spell level is 1/2 their total character level round down let them cast it. Throw a arcana check or something into the casting of a ritual so it requires some skill sure, but let the barbarian cast rituals, let the fighter cast rituals, let the rogue cast a ritual, hey maybe even invent specific rituals only experts can cast like say rituals to get past arcane locks or glyphs, martial only rituals etc..
Throw a arcana check or something into the casting of a ritual so it requires some skill sure, but let the barbarian cast rituals, let the fighter cast rituals, let the rogue cast a ritual
Throw a arcana check or something into the casting of a ritual so it requires some skill sure, but let the barbarian cast rituals, let the fighter cast rituals, let the rogue cast a ritual
The barbarian?
They aren't raging out of combat (at least not until 15th level), so why not.
I'm not sure spellcasters needed a boost, but until we see what they are doing with martials its hard to know if its good or not.
I don't think it's really a boost to caster, since most of the casters already had it, it was the half-casters, 1/3rd casters and whatever you want to call Warlock that lacked it. It just means the party overall can get a better spread of ritual spells.
I guess it sort of depends on what he meant if you can cast a spell and it has a ritual tag you can cast it as a ritual. Currently other than wizard that meant you had to have it known or prepared. If that is there yeah its just a boost to a few classes though I would not downplay how big it can be for them, if he is saying you can cast it as long as its on your list or maybe it needs to be known for known casters but not prepared for like clerics then its a solid boost for them as well. But you can cast the spell seemed a bit more open to me than have it prepared, its a one off sentence though so who knows.
And the thing is the out of combat time where rituals shine is the area that casters even half casters really start to show the gap between pure martials, and that is the area they should be narrowing not widening. I'd say allow anyone to own a spell book, allow anyone to add ritual spells into it and as long as spell level is 1/2 their total character level round down let them cast it. Throw a arcana check or something into the casting of a ritual so it requires some skill sure, but let the barbarian cast rituals, let the fighter cast rituals, let the rogue cast a ritual, hey maybe even invent specific rituals only experts can cast like say rituals to get past arcane locks or glyphs, martial only rituals etc..
I am not going to worry about the warrior group just yet, since it's the expert group coming tomorrow, I am hoping they buff barbarian, fighter and monk using the group, so that they are more inline with the power of the casters and what not. But we will see in time, just not next play test release.
Out of combat, ritual spells can be useful for investigations and roleplay, so I'm not against them, it is martials that are lacking something of their own in these areas and I don't think holding back other classes is the way to fix that.
Throw a arcana check or something into the casting of a ritual so it requires some skill sure, but let the barbarian cast rituals, let the fighter cast rituals, let the rogue cast a ritual
The barbarian?
They aren't raging out of combat (at least not until 15th level), so why not.
Maybe Crawdad meant all classes get ritual casting, but I thought he was saying all spellcasting classes get it.
Throw a arcana check or something into the casting of a ritual so it requires some skill sure, but let the barbarian cast rituals, let the fighter cast rituals, let the rogue cast a ritual
The barbarian?
They aren't raging out of combat (at least not until 15th level), so why not.
Maybe Crawdad meant all classes get ritual casting, but I thought he was saying all spellcasting classes get it.
From what I recall, he said that if you can cast a spell with the ritual tag, you can cast it as a ritual regardless of class features.
So that implies (at least to me) if you get through something like a feat or a racial feature, you can also ritually cast it.
Throw a arcana check or something into the casting of a ritual so it requires some skill sure, but let the barbarian cast rituals, let the fighter cast rituals, let the rogue cast a ritual
The barbarian?
They aren't raging out of combat (at least not until 15th level), so why not.
Maybe Crawdad meant all classes get ritual casting, but I thought he was saying all spellcasting classes get it.
Yes, though you could gain access through magic initiate etc, you just need to be able to cast the spell as he described it. Not what he said but what I think is that the ritual caster feat in 5e should be just a tool proficiency that any class has access to, spell casters get it built into their class and have a feat maybe that gives you it with some other small perk around ritual casting, and with that sure have a barbarian cast rituals they are kind of shamanic in many of the subclasses I think it fits them fairly well.
Throw a arcana check or something into the casting of a ritual so it requires some skill sure, but let the barbarian cast rituals, let the fighter cast rituals, let the rogue cast a ritual
The barbarian?
They aren't raging out of combat (at least not until 15th level), so why not.
Maybe Crawdad meant all classes get ritual casting, but I thought he was saying all spellcasting classes get it.
To me it sounded like you just needed to be able to cast the spell to cast it as a ritual, if that is the case then high elves get Detect Magic at 3rd level... mmm. High Elves would all be magic dowsers now if that is the case.
Just going by the latest video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l44mmYu2pqM
Sounds like if you can cast a spell with the ritual tag, you can cast it as a ritual irrelevant of any class features. This sounds like an interesting change and gives a lot more classes access to ritual spells, this also makes magic initiate a very interesting way to get a hold of a ritual not normally accessible to your class, since you no longer need a class feature. I have to say I like the sounds of this change.
I would love this change if true.
Though I imagine find familiar would be a top pick for non-casters if so.
Unusual that somebody would need to cast that more often than once a day, poor familiar! I think Detect Magic, Tenser's Floating Disk, Identify and those sorts are interesting from the ritual perspective since you could end out casting all of those more than once a day, as a non-caster, those are now a lot more viable.
Oh no, I didn't necessarily mean the familiar would absolutely get murdered, though that does happen sometimes (especially if you have a mean DM). No I meant even now, that would be a top pick, moreso now that you can afford to cast it more than once if need be.
detect magic, speak with animals, and unseen servant (that does have its uses) also came to mind for me. purify food and drink is also an option in a more survival-oriented thing.
Also what that does mean is that ritual spells you take as a caster without Ritual Casting might have a lot more appeal now. Like taking contact other plane or comprehend languages as a non-Tome Warlock.
I'm not sure spellcasters needed a boost, but until we see what they are doing with martials its hard to know if its good or not.
It's fairly marginal -- bard, cleric, druid, sorcerer, and wizard already had ritual casting, and is it that big a deal if someone else in the party can ritually cast detect magic or some such?
I think it's a big deal in the sense that it helps prop up stuff like Magic Initiate even by a little bit, so it means that if you as a Fighter for instance take a feat like that, and you choose something like detect magic or identify, you can use it as many times as you want, as opposed to once per long rest.
Honestly, would just prefer dropping rituals. No one prints any outside core
Unseen servant definitely will be the source of some non-caster shenanigans, speak with animals definitely will be a fun one for the pokemo.... I mean animal lovers in the party. And yes, for Warlock this is a much needed buff. You'd think the people that make pacts with devils, weapons or celestial beings would generally be of the ritual persuasion.
I don't think it's really a boost to caster, since most of the casters already had it, it was the half-casters, 1/3rd casters and whatever you want to call Warlock that lacked it. It just means the party overall can get a better spread of ritual spells.
Honestly, the more I think about this change the more I like it. Originally I was a little sour on it, but that means we don't need to take a feat + magic initiate to give like a Ranger or a paladin who specializes in hunting evil magic the ability to cast things like detect magic as a ritual. This also means there is less confusion at the table for new players. I don't know how many times I have seen "oh this has the ritual tag so I can cast it as a ritual and not spend a spell slot", only for the GM to remind them they need the ritual casting feature to do that. Again stream lined.
I guess it sort of depends on what he meant if you can cast a spell and it has a ritual tag you can cast it as a ritual. Currently other than wizard that meant you had to have it known or prepared. If that is there yeah its just a boost to a few classes though I would not downplay how big it can be for them, if he is saying you can cast it as long as its on your list or maybe it needs to be known for known casters but not prepared for like clerics then its a solid boost for them as well. But you can cast the spell seemed a bit more open to me than have it prepared, its a one off sentence though so who knows.
And the thing is the out of combat time where rituals shine is the area that casters even half casters really start to show the gap between pure martials, and that is the area they should be narrowing not widening. I'd say allow anyone to own a spell book, allow anyone to add ritual spells into it and as long as spell level is 1/2 their total character level round down let them cast it. Throw a arcana check or something into the casting of a ritual so it requires some skill sure, but let the barbarian cast rituals, let the fighter cast rituals, let the rogue cast a ritual, hey maybe even invent specific rituals only experts can cast like say rituals to get past arcane locks or glyphs, martial only rituals etc..
The barbarian?
"Not all those who wander are lost"
They aren't raging out of combat (at least not until 15th level), so why not.
I am not going to worry about the warrior group just yet, since it's the expert group coming tomorrow, I am hoping they buff barbarian, fighter and monk using the group, so that they are more inline with the power of the casters and what not. But we will see in time, just not next play test release.
Out of combat, ritual spells can be useful for investigations and roleplay, so I'm not against them, it is martials that are lacking something of their own in these areas and I don't think holding back other classes is the way to fix that.
Maybe Crawdad meant all classes get ritual casting, but I thought he was saying all spellcasting classes get it.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
From what I recall, he said that if you can cast a spell with the ritual tag, you can cast it as a ritual regardless of class features.
So that implies (at least to me) if you get through something like a feat or a racial feature, you can also ritually cast it.
Ah well, we'll find out soon enough :)
"Not all those who wander are lost"
This is a significant boost to Warlocks if it’s true.
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Yes, though you could gain access through magic initiate etc, you just need to be able to cast the spell as he described it. Not what he said but what I think is that the ritual caster feat in 5e should be just a tool proficiency that any class has access to, spell casters get it built into their class and have a feat maybe that gives you it with some other small perk around ritual casting, and with that sure have a barbarian cast rituals they are kind of shamanic in many of the subclasses I think it fits them fairly well.
To me it sounded like you just needed to be able to cast the spell to cast it as a ritual, if that is the case then high elves get Detect Magic at 3rd level... mmm. High Elves would all be magic dowsers now if that is the case.