Absolutely agree. Realistically, I don't think anyone's going to take Magic Initiate or whatever just to be able to stack Hunter's Mark and Hex. It's really only useful against a single target with a ton of health, and it's just not very fun. There are way more exciting feat options for rangers. The game writ large has nothing to fear from it, individual DMs that think it could be a problem for them can just rule that Hex and Hunter's Mark can't stack.
I think plenty of people will take Fey Touched to get Hex do this though and an extra 2d6 per attack is a pretty big boost.
Fey Touched-Hex is the most common feat I take. It is pretty rare for me to take HM on a Ranger (talking 5E rules with concentration), but I pick up Hex through Fey Touched a lot on Rangers and honestly many martials.
Also you can run them on different creatures which is really good if you have an effect or something that you want to split your attacks on or if you are fighting a horde of weak enemies. Keeping one of these on the "next target". Also if you are attacking one enemy and then need to start attacking another before that one is dead (maybe he moved, maybe someone closed to melee with you, maybe you had to go up and block a guy from closing with your sorcerer), you throw down the Hex on the other one while the HM is still running on the first.
Finally you have multiclass options as well, especially when it is a Ranger dip just to get the concentration-free HM.
I think plenty of people will take Fey Touched to get Hex do this though and an extra 2d6 per attack is a pretty big boost.
The action cost for doing it is pretty crippling.
I guess that would depend on what kind of enemy you are targeting. It would certainly encourage a Ranger to target the sturdiest opponent to avoid having to switch too often. However, put on the toughest target, it is fully on line for attacks in the second round.
I think plenty of people will take Fey Touched to get Hex do this though and an extra 2d6 per attack is a pretty big boost.
The action cost for doing it is pretty crippling.
It is a bonus action, unless you have something else competing for your bonus it is not a big deal. With the new TWF rules you don't even have a TWF attack using that.
I think plenty of people will take Fey Touched to get Hex do this though and an extra 2d6 per attack is a pretty big boost.
The action cost for doing it is pretty crippling.
It is a bonus action, unless you have something else competing for your bonus it is not a big deal. With the new TWF rules you don't even have a TWF attack using that.
It's a bonus action for hunter's mark and a bonus action for hex, both of which have to be repeated for every target. Something like divine favor at least gets rid of the target switching problems.
I think plenty of people will take Fey Touched to get Hex do this though and an extra 2d6 per attack is a pretty big boost.
The action cost for doing it is pretty crippling.
It is a bonus action, unless you have something else competing for your bonus it is not a big deal. With the new TWF rules you don't even have a TWF attack using that.
It's a bonus action for hunter's mark and a bonus action for hex, both of which have to be repeated for every target. Something like divine favor at least gets rid of the target switching problems.
And you can get that from the ardling race and still have any feat you want at level 1.
I think plenty of people will take Fey Touched to get Hex do this though and an extra 2d6 per attack is a pretty big boost.
The action cost for doing it is pretty crippling.
I guess that would depend on what kind of enemy you are targeting. It would certainly encourage a Ranger to target the sturdiest opponent to avoid having to switch too often. However, put on the toughest target, it is fully on line for attacks in the second round.
Outside boss fights even the sturdy enemies are dead before this matters.
I think plenty of people will take Fey Touched to get Hex do this though and an extra 2d6 per attack is a pretty big boost.
The action cost for doing it is pretty crippling.
I guess that would depend on what kind of enemy you are targeting. It would certainly encourage a Ranger to target the sturdiest opponent to avoid having to switch too often. However, put on the toughest target, it is fully on line for attacks in the second round.
Outside boss fights even the sturdy enemies are dead before this matters.
I think weaker enemies are where it works best on because you can get ahead of where you are. There also is the ability to use it on someone when the first is not dead. That happens all the time with the current HM or Hex. You have already hexed someone, that guy is still alive and now you need to attack another enemy for a tactical reason (maybe the first one failed his save on hypnotic pattern).
I think plenty of people will take Fey Touched to get Hex do this though and an extra 2d6 per attack is a pretty big boost.
The action cost for doing it is pretty crippling.
I guess that would depend on what kind of enemy you are targeting. It would certainly encourage a Ranger to target the sturdiest opponent to avoid having to switch too often. However, put on the toughest target, it is fully on line for attacks in the second round.
Outside boss fights even the sturdy enemies are dead before this matters.
I think weaker enemies are where it works best on because you can get ahead of where you are. There also is the ability to use it on someone when the first is not dead. That happens all the time with the current HM or Hex. You have already hexed someone, that guy is still alive and now you need to attack another enemy for a tactical reason (maybe the first one failed his save on hypnotic pattern).
But you're a Ranger, you don’t have the spell slots to keep doing this for a day. I guess you can do it in on combat since you get a free cast of hex, but their are better feat choices.
I think plenty of people will take Fey Touched to get Hex do this though and an extra 2d6 per attack is a pretty big boost.
The action cost for doing it is pretty crippling.
I guess that would depend on what kind of enemy you are targeting. It would certainly encourage a Ranger to target the sturdiest opponent to avoid having to switch too often. However, put on the toughest target, it is fully on line for attacks in the second round.
Outside boss fights even the sturdy enemies are dead before this matters.
Sturdy enemies are dead before the 2nd round of combat in your games? I guess in my games every combat is a boss fight then.
I think plenty of people will take Fey Touched to get Hex do this though and an extra 2d6 per attack is a pretty big boost.
The action cost for doing it is pretty crippling.
I guess that would depend on what kind of enemy you are targeting. It would certainly encourage a Ranger to target the sturdiest opponent to avoid having to switch too often. However, put on the toughest target, it is fully on line for attacks in the second round.
Outside boss fights even the sturdy enemies are dead before this matters.
I think weaker enemies are where it works best on because you can get ahead of where you are. There also is the ability to use it on someone when the first is not dead. That happens all the time with the current HM or Hex. You have already hexed someone, that guy is still alive and now you need to attack another enemy for a tactical reason (maybe the first one failed his save on hypnotic pattern).
But you're a Ranger, you don’t have the spell slots to keep doing this for a day. I guess you can do it in on combat since you get a free cast of hex, but their are better feat choices.
But if you get hex through a feat it is a free cast and does not require a slot. There are not many feats at 4th level better than Fey Touched, the free cast notwithstanding.
There may be a few feats better for specific builds, but to be honest I can't think of a single feat that is generally better at 4th level. Maybe lucky or maybe Elven accuracy if you are an elf or half elf.
I think plenty of people will take Fey Touched to get Hex do this though and an extra 2d6 per attack is a pretty big boost.
The action cost for doing it is pretty crippling.
I guess that would depend on what kind of enemy you are targeting. It would certainly encourage a Ranger to target the sturdiest opponent to avoid having to switch too often. However, put on the toughest target, it is fully on line for attacks in the second round.
Outside boss fights even the sturdy enemies are dead before this matters.
Sturdy enemies are dead before the 2nd round of combat in your games? I guess in my games every combat is a boss fight then.
Most combats are 3-4 rounds on average I would say and 2-3 before the contest is decided (i.e. where you would not use another spell). However there are plenty that aren't too.
Just last week we had 4 8th level characters fighting 4 Gargoyles, a Hellhound, 3 hags, 3 low level fiends of some sort (probably CR2-3) and another high level fiend of some sort. That fight lasted 13 rounds. My bladesinger5-Cavalier3 used every single spell slot she had in that one fight as well as two of her three bladesong uses.
The spells she cast in that one fight:
Shield (3 times)
Absorb Elements
Cause Fear (free cast from feat)
Dragons Breath
Shadow Blade
Invisibility (free cast from feat, actually cast right before the fight)
I think plenty of people will take Fey Touched to get Hex do this though and an extra 2d6 per attack is a pretty big boost.
The action cost for doing it is pretty crippling.
I guess that would depend on what kind of enemy you are targeting. It would certainly encourage a Ranger to target the sturdiest opponent to avoid having to switch too often. However, put on the toughest target, it is fully on line for attacks in the second round.
Outside boss fights even the sturdy enemies are dead before this matters.
Sturdy enemies are dead before the 2nd round of combat in your games? I guess in my games every combat is a boss fight then.
Or your party does not optimize as much in build/tactics. 4-5 players will be attacking that one target each round, if it lasts more than 2 rounds it better be a boss.
Most combats are 3-4 rounds on average I would say and 2-3 before the contest is decided (i.e. where you would not use another spell). However there are plenty that aren't too.
Just last week we had 4 8th level characters fighting 4 Gargoyles, a Hellhound, 3 hags, 3 low level fiends of some sort (probably CR2-3) and another high level fiend of some sort. That fight lasted 13 turns. My bladesinger5-Cavalier3 used every single spell slot she had in that one fight as well as two of her three bladesong uses.
The spells she cast in that one fight:
Shield (3 times)
Absorb Elements
Cause Fear (free cast from feat)
Dragons Breath
Shadow Blade
Invisibility (free cast from feat, actually cast right before the fight)
Mirror Image
Summon Shadowspawn (2 times)
Wow that is come crap luck on concentration checks.
Most combats are 3-4 rounds on average I would say and 2-3 before the contest is decided (i.e. where you would not use another spell). However there are plenty that aren't too.
Just last week we had 4 8th level characters fighting 4 Gargoyles, a Hellhound, 3 hags, 3 low level fiends of some sort (probably CR2-3) and another high level fiend of some sort. That fight lasted 13 turns. My bladesinger5-Cavalier3 used every single spell slot she had in that one fight as well as two of her three bladesong uses.
The spells she cast in that one fight:
Shield (3 times)
Absorb Elements
Cause Fear (free cast from feat)
Dragons Breath
Shadow Blade
Invisibility (free cast from feat, actually cast right before the fight)
Mirror Image
Summon Shadowspawn (2 times)
Wow that is come crap luck on concentration checks.
I failed twice, once on the last round of the fight. The rest of the time the spell ended for another reason.
Invisibility was cast first, before the fight on our Paladin, who is ironically our best scout. He was sneaking scouting invisibile amongst the Gargoyles, which we thought were statues, and failed a stealth check. They all came to life and raised an alarm. He lost invisibility when he attacked.
Round 5 - The Hellhound breathed fire on me, I made the save and used absorb elements. I think I took 4 damage but I rolled a 3 on concentration and my shadowspawn was gone.
Round 6 - Cast Dragon Breath as a bonus action. This is a touch spell so I had my familiar (Raven) deliver it with a touch to himself. Then on his turn he swooped in and breathed acid on a hag and a gargoyle. Unfortunately he was close to the fight and another Gargoyle flew up and killed him, so I did not lose concentration, rather the guy I cast it on (my familiar) died.
Round 7 - Cast Summon Shadow Spawn again
Round 8 - The shadowspawn went 1V3 to tie up the three lower level fiends (he had already used his scream in round 7).
Round 10 - The shadowspawn died. By this time he had killed one fiend and injured a second.
Round 11 - I cast cause fear against one of the gargoyles that was not near anyone and was chasing our flying warlock (attempt to keep him away and steal his actions), but he made his save so concentration was irrelevant
Round 12 - By this time we had 1 heavily wounded hag and one barely injured gargoyle left. I cast shadowblade, mostly because I do not have a magic weapon so booming blade was not doing much damage to the gargoyles. I used the shadowblade to attack the last remaining hag and I injured her and the Paladin killed her.
Round 13 - I attacked the Gargoyle with shadowblade and hit, but on his turn he attacked I used my last spell slot for shield, then he attacked again and hit, overcoming the shield. I failed my concentration check, but it was irrelevant because my allies killed him.
Sturdy enemies are dead before the 2nd round of combat in your games? I guess in my games every combat is a boss fight then.
The issue isn't how many turns the combat is, the issue is how many turns you spend attacking the same target. Something like hex isn't really worth the spell slot unless you can use it for about two turns attacking the same target, which means you're attacking the same target for three turns in succession.
As a DM, you can simply choose tougher opponents, even make new ones up if you prefer to go that route. It is ok, too, for there to be some chaff/cannon fodder supporting tougher creatures.
I have no problem making difficult encounters. However, all the monsters that can survive three turns of focus fire by the party are too dangerous to use multiple of against the party.
Yeah. I have a particularly large party, seven players, and I'll often just up the HP of monsters. Generally preferring to have a smaller amount of tougher monsters rather than a swarm of smaller ones, though I do shake things up.
Shield is a slot gobbler. That’s why I’m not a huge fan of it on anything but an 18th level Wizard. Same thing with misty step, I love to have it but hate to use it. They’re emergency glass spells, best to not become too reliant on them.
I think plenty of people will take Fey Touched to get Hex do this though and an extra 2d6 per attack is a pretty big boost.
Fey Touched-Hex is the most common feat I take. It is pretty rare for me to take HM on a Ranger (talking 5E rules with concentration), but I pick up Hex through Fey Touched a lot on Rangers and honestly many martials.
Also you can run them on different creatures which is really good if you have an effect or something that you want to split your attacks on or if you are fighting a horde of weak enemies. Keeping one of these on the "next target". Also if you are attacking one enemy and then need to start attacking another before that one is dead (maybe he moved, maybe someone closed to melee with you, maybe you had to go up and block a guy from closing with your sorcerer), you throw down the Hex on the other one while the HM is still running on the first.
Finally you have multiclass options as well, especially when it is a Ranger dip just to get the concentration-free HM.
The action cost for doing it is pretty crippling.
I guess that would depend on what kind of enemy you are targeting. It would certainly encourage a Ranger to target the sturdiest opponent to avoid having to switch too often. However, put on the toughest target, it is fully on line for attacks in the second round.
It is a bonus action, unless you have something else competing for your bonus it is not a big deal. With the new TWF rules you don't even have a TWF attack using that.
It's a bonus action for hunter's mark and a bonus action for hex, both of which have to be repeated for every target. Something like divine favor at least gets rid of the target switching problems.
And you can get that from the ardling race and still have any feat you want at level 1.
Outside boss fights even the sturdy enemies are dead before this matters.
I think weaker enemies are where it works best on because you can get ahead of where you are. There also is the ability to use it on someone when the first is not dead. That happens all the time with the current HM or Hex. You have already hexed someone, that guy is still alive and now you need to attack another enemy for a tactical reason (maybe the first one failed his save on hypnotic pattern).
But you're a Ranger, you don’t have the spell slots to keep doing this for a day. I guess you can do it in on combat since you get a free cast of hex, but their are better feat choices.
Sturdy enemies are dead before the 2nd round of combat in your games? I guess in my games every combat is a boss fight then.
But if you get hex through a feat it is a free cast and does not require a slot. There are not many feats at 4th level better than Fey Touched, the free cast notwithstanding.
There may be a few feats better for specific builds, but to be honest I can't think of a single feat that is generally better at 4th level. Maybe lucky or maybe Elven accuracy if you are an elf or half elf.
Most combats are 3-4 rounds on average I would say and 2-3 before the contest is decided (i.e. where you would not use another spell). However there are plenty that aren't too.
Just last week we had 4 8th level characters fighting 4 Gargoyles, a Hellhound, 3 hags, 3 low level fiends of some sort (probably CR2-3) and another high level fiend of some sort. That fight lasted 13 rounds. My bladesinger5-Cavalier3 used every single spell slot she had in that one fight as well as two of her three bladesong uses.
The spells she cast in that one fight:
Shield (3 times)
Absorb Elements
Cause Fear (free cast from feat)
Dragons Breath
Shadow Blade
Invisibility (free cast from feat, actually cast right before the fight)
Mirror Image
Summon Shadowspawn (2 times)
Or your party does not optimize as much in build/tactics. 4-5 players will be attacking that one target each round, if it lasts more than 2 rounds it better be a boss.
Wow that is come crap luck on concentration checks.
I failed twice, once on the last round of the fight. The rest of the time the spell ended for another reason.
Invisibility was cast first, before the fight on our Paladin, who is ironically our best scout. He was sneaking scouting invisibile amongst the Gargoyles, which we thought were statues, and failed a stealth check. They all came to life and raised an alarm. He lost invisibility when he attacked.
We all rolled initiative
Round 1 - Summon Shadow Spawn action surge mirror image.
Round 5 - The Hellhound breathed fire on me, I made the save and used absorb elements. I think I took 4 damage but I rolled a 3 on concentration and my shadowspawn was gone.
Round 6 - Cast Dragon Breath as a bonus action. This is a touch spell so I had my familiar (Raven) deliver it with a touch to himself. Then on his turn he swooped in and breathed acid on a hag and a gargoyle. Unfortunately he was close to the fight and another Gargoyle flew up and killed him, so I did not lose concentration, rather the guy I cast it on (my familiar) died.
Round 7 - Cast Summon Shadow Spawn again
Round 8 - The shadowspawn went 1V3 to tie up the three lower level fiends (he had already used his scream in round 7).
Round 10 - The shadowspawn died. By this time he had killed one fiend and injured a second.
Round 11 - I cast cause fear against one of the gargoyles that was not near anyone and was chasing our flying warlock (attempt to keep him away and steal his actions), but he made his save so concentration was irrelevant
Round 12 - By this time we had 1 heavily wounded hag and one barely injured gargoyle left. I cast shadowblade, mostly because I do not have a magic weapon so booming blade was not doing much damage to the gargoyles. I used the shadowblade to attack the last remaining hag and I injured her and the Paladin killed her.
Round 13 - I attacked the Gargoyle with shadowblade and hit, but on his turn he attacked I used my last spell slot for shield, then he attacked again and hit, overcoming the shield. I failed my concentration check, but it was irrelevant because my allies killed him.
The issue isn't how many turns the combat is, the issue is how many turns you spend attacking the same target. Something like hex isn't really worth the spell slot unless you can use it for about two turns attacking the same target, which means you're attacking the same target for three turns in succession.
I have no problem making difficult encounters. However, all the monsters that can survive three turns of focus fire by the party are too dangerous to use multiple of against the party.
Yeah. I have a particularly large party, seven players, and I'll often just up the HP of monsters. Generally preferring to have a smaller amount of tougher monsters rather than a swarm of smaller ones, though I do shake things up.
I regularly simply double the HP of all monsters in an encounter to make it tougher.
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Shield is a slot gobbler. That’s why I’m not a huge fan of it on anything but an 18th level Wizard. Same thing with misty step, I love to have it but hate to use it. They’re emergency glass spells, best to not become too reliant on them.
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