On first blush it feels like bards got the absolute assballs nerfed out of them and got even more of a goddamn focus on Music Dandy, which is sad. I love the idea of a Magic Expert, but I can't carry a tune with a forklift and I'm getting awfully sick of having to sing and dance and be Sam Riegel every time I want to try and play an Arcane Expert. Blugh.
Okay, what am I missing, to me it looks like they got a decent buff overall.
Bardic spellcasting now comprises half and only half the Arcane spell list, with their spell choice severely restricted. They can't trade out spell levels anymore - no trading a first-level spell for an improved second-level version on level up, you HAVE to prepare four first, two second, two third, and so forth. Preparation over innate casting is a huge boon to be sure, and they seem to've excised vestigial legacy features like Countercharm which helps. But between a drastic reduction in uses of their signature Inspiration and the heavy cuts to their Spellcasting, I have to wonder if I'd be able to rebuild any of my current bard characters worth a spit in the new system.
I know Manadh, my current curse-centric fey witch technically-bard I was super looking forward to trying out some day, is completely dead in the water given not only the dramatic cuts to the bard spell list, but also the doubled-down focus on Musical Dandy Horny Man. Her Bane spell is gone, her Faerie Fire spell is gone, her Bestow Curse spell is gone, her Dimension Door spell is gone, her Synaptic Static spell is gone, and she doesn't really get jack-monkey squat to replace any of it until and unless she's lucky enough to gain access to Magical Secrets. Which comes in later for bards, with no opt-in for earlier access to Secrets anymore. Plus the fact that I was respinning her Glamour Bard class as a fey-spirited forest witch is also dead, because Wizards, like...quadruple-downed on the whole "ALL BARDS MUST BE EXTREMYL MUSICAL SUPER PERFORMERS AND THEIR PLAYERS HAD BEST BE MADONNA, WEIRD AL, GEORGE CARLIN AND ELVIS ALL WRAPPED UP IN ONE" language that makes bards so incredibly difficult to play if you're not a professional performer your own-assed IRL self.
I know, it's playtest, everything's in flux. I'm not screaming sky-is-falling or anything, I'm just a lot more ambivalent about the changes to the bard class than I am about other 1DD stuff so far. The Origins playtest was a slam dunk, but this one feels like it might need another go through the wash to me. That's all.
I mean sure they don't have the full arcane list but they didn't in 5e either, they had a specific spell list which was pretty much arcane spells from the 4 schools they have access to with a couple from divine/primal and missing out on a few from the arcane in those schools. And while yes they can't up known spells they can change them daily which is massively better imo. I'd say overall their spell casting has been massively improved. While synaptic static is gone for example that is because well its just gone as it was not a PH spell, it is still a enchantment/arcane spell so once that supplement comes out you would have access to it. Sure fairy fire and bestow curse are dropped and teleportation circle and plant growth but a few spells were picked up as well, as they did not have every arcane divination, enchantment, transmutation and illusion spell as a quick example they did not have fly or gaseous form before, now they do as well as telekinesis. So while specific build based around a couple specific spells might not be possible other builds based around other spells may now be and overall the spell list seems balanced with what was in 5e.
I think they are about even on their inspiring words stuff a reaction is a pretty strong way to do it, ideally they would have both a bonus action that lasted a few minutes and a oh crap button with a reaction but neither is inherently better. They do get less which sucks but its not a big loss as its really a fairly minor side feature as is, personally while i know its out of the scope of what they wanted to do I wish they were 1/2 casters and they had really enhanced this feature so they were using it every round.
Don't get me wrong I always though this song of creation crap was a stupid justification for their magic, I would have gone with more D&D tradition and tied their magic to how they are lore focused, but other than needing to have 3 musical instrument proficiencies nothing is forcing you down that path really, even the starting skills they flat out say or pick whatever you want for the bard.
Rangers as an expert class feel lacking in abilities that make them an "expert". their whole combat approach has been rebalanced (notice steel wind strike is just gone, an conjure animals will be nerfed unless something ). Bards get Jack of all trades, rogues get reliable talent. but rangers seem to get less. (they do have utility spells and guidance but that has also been nerfed a bit )
So far there have been few options for travel utility or party boosts or preparation tools.(letting the party know about immunities, I guess but i always did that via skills/research)
any reference to difficult terrain assistance for the ranger is gone. outlander has not been converted to a feat and favored terrain is also gone.
Basically the whole ranger play loop has been manipulated and its hard to tell if its for the better. I suspect fans of the ranger will be unhappy but people who enjoy other classes will think its an improvement.
On steel wind strike, its a spell from a supplement not the PH I suspect most spells from supplements wont be in this.
Oiy. I'm specifically saying, more'n once, that this doc is gonna take a few run-throughs to absorb and start formulating proper opinions on. First-blush reactions are just that. Don't @ me bro. Hueh.
As for "all bards must ALWAYS be Ultramusicians"?. I direct your attention to the class fluff for bards:
"Invoking magic through music, dance, and verse, Bards are expert at inspiring others, soothing hurts, disheartening foes, and creating illusions. Bards believe that the creators of the multiverse spoke and signed it into existence and that remnants of those Words of Creation still resound and glimmer on every plane of existence. The magic of Bards is an attempt to harness those words—which transcend any language—and direct them to create new wonders. Almost anything can inspire a new song or tale, so Bards are fascinated by almost everything. They have a wide-ranging knowledge of many subjects and develop an aptitude to do almost anything well. Bards become masters of many things, including musical performance, the workings of magic, and the formation of jests. Not every singer or poet in a tavern or jester in a royal court is a Bard. Harnessing the Words of Creation requires hard work and some measure of natural talent that most troubadours and jongleurs lack. It can sometimes be hard to spot the difference between these performers and Bards, though. A Bard’s life is spent wandering across the land gathering lore, telling stories, and living on the gratitude of audiences, much like any other entertainer. But Bards’ depth of knowledge, level of musical skill, and mastery of magic sets them apart."
Bards invoke magic through music, dance, and verse. They're fishing for the Words of Creation, basically the "music, dance and verse" of the cosmos. They're inspired by new songs or tales - not new knowledge or anything else, specifically "songs or tales". The class is specifically compared to singers, poets, and jesters - not to adventurers. Want to make an awesome magical Indiana Jones-esque polymath? NOPE. You have to make Jaskier, instead. Want to make a tricksy fey witch who just uses the bard chassis because it's the closest mechanical approximation of what you want? NOOOPE. Gotta be Jaskier. Want to make a wandering war skald trying to prove herself to her clan and collect new tales of battle and bravery to add to her ancestor's Tome of Heroes? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPE. You get to Toss a Coin to Your Witcher(!!) and spend every combat doing sick lute solos* instead of fighting.
Yes, I understand that the class fluff isn't necessary, but man it's really disheartening to see them going all-in on the Musical Dandyman ****ery in the 1DD document when the base bard actually made half an attempt to acknowledge that bards aren't always necessarily horny song fops. Blegh. This is one meme I dearly wish the community would just let die already.
“Music, dance, and verse” is only 1/3 music, and equating any of that with “dandyman ****ery” is extremely weird. The entire description that you quoted is an acknowledgment that bards aren’t always “horny song fops.” Yeah, it’s also an acknowledgment that bards are still bards, which is a word that means something, and that something is not Indiana Jones (an extremely horny ****boy, it’s worth pointing out). But your inability to shake yourself of some weird stereotypes definitely feels like a you problem.
Good. Combo was dumb. Sentinel-by-itself is improved (note: Sentinel no longer disqualifies itself! Build your Spartan shieldwalls, folks!), and Polearm Master is...annoyingly nerfed, but in ways I understand. Even if it totally spikes my awesome PAM Spear/Shield skirmisher Ranger.
Rangers as an expert class feel lacking in abilities that make them an "expert". their whole combat approach has been rebalanced (notice steel wind strike is just gone, an conjure animals will be nerfed unless something ). Bards get Jack of all trades, rogues get reliable talent. but rangers seem to get less. (they do have utility spells and guidance but that has also been nerfed a bit )
So far there have been few options for travel utility or party boosts or preparation tools.(letting the party know about immunities, I guess but i always did that via skills/research)
any reference to difficult terrain assistance for the ranger is gone. outlander has not been converted to a feat and favored terrain is also gone.
Basically the whole ranger play loop has been manipulated and its hard to tell if its for the better. I suspect fans of the ranger will be unhappy but people who enjoy other classes will think its an improvement.
On steel wind strike, its a spell from a supplement not the PH I suspect most spells from supplements wont be in this.
No spells from any supplements are in this, including Elemental Evil/SCAG which both came out relatively quickly after the PHB in '14.
Oiy. I'm specifically saying, more'n once, that this doc is gonna take a few run-throughs to absorb and start formulating proper opinions on. First-blush reactions are just that. Don't @ me bro. Hueh.
As for "all bards must ALWAYS be Ultramusicians"?. I direct your attention to the class fluff for bards:
"Invoking magic through music, dance, and verse, Bards are expert at inspiring others, soothing hurts, disheartening foes, and creating illusions. Bards believe that the creators of the multiverse spoke and signed it into existence and that remnants of those Words of Creation still resound and glimmer on every plane of existence. The magic of Bards is an attempt to harness those words—which transcend any language—and direct them to create new wonders. Almost anything can inspire a new song or tale, so Bards are fascinated by almost everything. They have a wide-ranging knowledge of many subjects and develop an aptitude to do almost anything well. Bards become masters of many things, including musical performance, the workings of magic, and the formation of jests. Not every singer or poet in a tavern or jester in a royal court is a Bard. Harnessing the Words of Creation requires hard work and some measure of natural talent that most troubadours and jongleurs lack. It can sometimes be hard to spot the difference between these performers and Bards, though. A Bard’s life is spent wandering across the land gathering lore, telling stories, and living on the gratitude of audiences, much like any other entertainer. But Bards’ depth of knowledge, level of musical skill, and mastery of magic sets them apart."
Bards invoke magic through music, dance, and verse. They're fishing for the Words of Creation, basically the "music, dance and verse" of the cosmos. They're inspired by new songs or tales - not new knowledge or anything else, specifically "songs or tales". The class is specifically compared to singers, poets, and jesters - not to adventurers. Want to make an awesome magical Indiana Jones-esque polymath? NOPE. You have to make Jaskier, instead. Want to make a tricksy fey witch who just uses the bard chassis because it's the closest mechanical approximation of what you want? NOOOPE. Gotta be Jaskier. Want to make a wandering war skald trying to prove herself to her clan and collect new tales of battle and bravery to add to her ancestor's Tome of Heroes? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPE. You get to Toss a Coin to Your Witcher(!!) and spend every combat doing sick lute solos* instead of fighting.
Yes, I understand that the class fluff isn't necessary, but man it's really disheartening to see them going all-in on the Musical Dandyman ****ery in the 1DD document when the base bard actually made half an attempt to acknowledge that bards aren't always necessarily horny song fops. Blegh. This is one meme I dearly wish the community would just let die already.
I almost never read the "fluff" provided as I almost always create my own to mesh with my character concept, but I understand your annoyance though. I do wish that instead of wasting space on "suggested prepared spell lists", that they would double down on reminding people that the fluff can be what ever you want it to be by providing alternative fluff ideas.
also seems this playtest package is supposed to run with the standard crit rules not the crit rules from the last package. As in the section attack roll they refer to the PHB for crit rules.
Rangers as an expert class feel lacking in abilities that make them an "expert". their whole combat approach has been rebalanced (notice steel wind strike is just gone, an conjure animals will be nerfed unless something ). Bards get Jack of all trades, rogues get reliable talent. but rangers seem to get less. (they do have utility spells and guidance but that has also been nerfed a bit )
So far there have been few options for travel utility or party boosts or preparation tools.(letting the party know about immunities, I guess but i always did that via skills/research)
any reference to difficult terrain assistance for the ranger is gone. outlander has not been converted to a feat and favored terrain is also gone.
Basically the whole ranger play loop has been manipulated and its hard to tell if its for the better. I suspect fans of the ranger will be unhappy but people who enjoy other classes will think its an improvement.
On steel wind strike, its a spell from a supplement not the PH I suspect most spells from supplements wont be in this.
No spells from any supplements are in this, including Elemental Evil/SCAG which both came out relatively quickly after the PHB in '14.
Yeah, I totally thought it was a PHB spell because its been around so long. my bad.
On first blush it feels like bards got the absolute assballs nerfed out of them and got even more of a goddamn focus on Music Dandy, which is sad. I love the idea of a Magic Expert, but I can't carry a tune with a forklift and I'm getting awfully sick of having to sing and dance and be Sam Riegel every time I want to try and play an Arcane Expert. Blugh.
Okay, what am I missing, to me it looks like they got a decent buff overall.
Bardic spellcasting now comprises half and only half the Arcane spell list, with their spell choice severely restricted. They can't trade out spell levels anymore - no trading a first-level spell for an improved second-level version on level up, you HAVE to prepare four first, two second, two third, and so forth. Preparation over innate casting is a huge boon to be sure, and they seem to've excised vestigial legacy features like Countercharm which helps. But between a drastic reduction in uses of their signature Inspiration and the heavy cuts to their Spellcasting, I have to wonder if I'd be able to rebuild any of my current bard characters worth a spit in the new system.
I know Manadh, my current curse-centric fey witch technically-bard I was super looking forward to trying out some day, is completely dead in the water given not only the dramatic cuts to the bard spell list, but also the doubled-down focus on Musical Dandy Horny Man. Her Bane spell is gone, her Faerie Fire spell is gone, her Bestow Curse spell is gone, her Dimension Door spell is gone, her Synaptic Static spell is gone, and she doesn't really get jack-monkey squat to replace any of it until and unless she's lucky enough to gain access to Magical Secrets. Which comes in later for bards, with no opt-in for earlier access to Secrets anymore. Plus the fact that I was respinning her Glamour Bard class as a fey-spirited forest witch is also dead, because Wizards, like...quadruple-downed on the whole "ALL BARDS MUST BE EXTREMYL MUSICAL SUPER PERFORMERS AND THEIR PLAYERS HAD BEST BE MADONNA, WEIRD AL, GEORGE CARLIN AND ELVIS ALL WRAPPED UP IN ONE" language that makes bards so incredibly difficult to play if you're not a professional performer your own-assed IRL self.
I know, it's playtest, everything's in flux. I'm not screaming sky-is-falling or anything, I'm just a lot more ambivalent about the changes to the bard class than I am about other 1DD stuff so far. The Origins playtest was a slam dunk, but this one feels like it might need another go through the wash to me. That's all.
Thank you. The reduction in uses of bardic inspiration is a really big nerf, not only to the base bard, but to several subclasses as well (any subclass that lets you use your bardic inspiration to do something else.) And it's basically the class's most iconic feature!
Not having bane or faerie fire is extremely disappointing. I've taken one or both of these for every bard I've played. If this is how spell lists are going to be handled for other classes, I'm not sure if I'm a fan.
Bards aren't damage dealers. A good bard is capable in some areas, but really helps other characters shine. Why nerf the latter part? These changes make the class feel way less unique and useful, and I think it will be less fun for everyone at the table.
----
To make this take a bit spicier, imagine if they do this to paladins. Divine smite uses = proficiency bonus / long rest, and it uses your reaction so you can only ever use it once per turn.
On first blush it feels like bards got the absolute assballs nerfed out of them and got even more of a goddamn focus on Music Dandy, which is sad. I love the idea of a Magic Expert, but I can't carry a tune with a forklift and I'm getting awfully sick of having to sing and dance and be Sam Riegel every time I want to try and play an Arcane Expert. Blugh.
Okay, what am I missing, to me it looks like they got a decent buff overall.
Bardic spellcasting now comprises half and only half the Arcane spell list, with their spell choice severely restricted. They can't trade out spell levels anymore - no trading a first-level spell for an improved second-level version on level up, you HAVE to prepare four first, two second, two third, and so forth. Preparation over innate casting is a huge boon to be sure, and they seem to've excised vestigial legacy features like Countercharm which helps. But between a drastic reduction in uses of their signature Inspiration and the heavy cuts to their Spellcasting, I have to wonder if I'd be able to rebuild any of my current bard characters worth a spit in the new system.
I know Manadh, my current curse-centric fey witch technically-bard I was super looking forward to trying out some day, is completely dead in the water given not only the dramatic cuts to the bard spell list, but also the doubled-down focus on Musical Dandy Horny Man. Her Bane spell is gone, her Faerie Fire spell is gone, her Bestow Curse spell is gone, her Dimension Door spell is gone, her Synaptic Static spell is gone, and she doesn't really get jack-monkey squat to replace any of it until and unless she's lucky enough to gain access to Magical Secrets. Which comes in later for bards, with no opt-in for earlier access to Secrets anymore. Plus the fact that I was respinning her Glamour Bard class as a fey-spirited forest witch is also dead, because Wizards, like...quadruple-downed on the whole "ALL BARDS MUST BE EXTREMYL MUSICAL SUPER PERFORMERS AND THEIR PLAYERS HAD BEST BE MADONNA, WEIRD AL, GEORGE CARLIN AND ELVIS ALL WRAPPED UP IN ONE" language that makes bards so incredibly difficult to play if you're not a professional performer your own-assed IRL self.
I know, it's playtest, everything's in flux. I'm not screaming sky-is-falling or anything, I'm just a lot more ambivalent about the changes to the bard class than I am about other 1DD stuff so far. The Origins playtest was a slam dunk, but this one feels like it might need another go through the wash to me. That's all.
Thank you. The reduction in uses of bardic inspiration is a really big nerf, not only to the base bard, but to several subclasses as well (any subclass that lets you use your bardic inspiration to do something else.) And it's basically the class's most iconic feature!
Not having bane or faerie fire is extremely disappointing. I've taken one or both of these for every bard I've played. If this is how spell lists are going to be handled for other classes, I'm not sure if I'm a fan.
Bards aren't damage dealers. A good bard is capable in some areas, but really helps other characters shine. Why nerf the latter part? These changes make the class feel way less unique and useful, and I think it will be less fun for everyone at the table.
----
To make this take a bit spicier, imagine if they do this to paladins. Divine smite uses = proficiency bonus / long rest, and it uses your reaction so you can only ever use it once per turn.
Well, you can still take Faerie Fire, but you would have to use your Background Feat on Magic Initiate (Primal) to do it. I know that isn't what you want, but I just wanted to point out that it is still possible.
Edit: I would be ok with Divine Smite getting nerfed in such away.
On first blush it feels like bards got the absolute assballs nerfed out of them and got even more of a goddamn focus on Music Dandy, which is sad. I love the idea of a Magic Expert, but I can't carry a tune with a forklift and I'm getting awfully sick of having to sing and dance and be Sam Riegel every time I want to try and play an Arcane Expert. Blugh.
Okay, what am I missing, to me it looks like they got a decent buff overall.
Bardic spellcasting now comprises half and only half the Arcane spell list, with their spell choice severely restricted. They can't trade out spell levels anymore - no trading a first-level spell for an improved second-level version on level up, you HAVE to prepare four first, two second, two third, and so forth. Preparation over innate casting is a huge boon to be sure, and they seem to've excised vestigial legacy features like Countercharm which helps. But between a drastic reduction in uses of their signature Inspiration and the heavy cuts to their Spellcasting, I have to wonder if I'd be able to rebuild any of my current bard characters worth a spit in the new system.
I know Manadh, my current curse-centric fey witch technically-bard I was super looking forward to trying out some day, is completely dead in the water given not only the dramatic cuts to the bard spell list, but also the doubled-down focus on Musical Dandy Horny Man. Her Bane spell is gone, her Faerie Fire spell is gone, her Bestow Curse spell is gone, her Dimension Door spell is gone, her Synaptic Static spell is gone, and she doesn't really get jack-monkey squat to replace any of it until and unless she's lucky enough to gain access to Magical Secrets. Which comes in later for bards, with no opt-in for earlier access to Secrets anymore. Plus the fact that I was respinning her Glamour Bard class as a fey-spirited forest witch is also dead, because Wizards, like...quadruple-downed on the whole "ALL BARDS MUST BE EXTREMYL MUSICAL SUPER PERFORMERS AND THEIR PLAYERS HAD BEST BE MADONNA, WEIRD AL, GEORGE CARLIN AND ELVIS ALL WRAPPED UP IN ONE" language that makes bards so incredibly difficult to play if you're not a professional performer your own-assed IRL self.
I know, it's playtest, everything's in flux. I'm not screaming sky-is-falling or anything, I'm just a lot more ambivalent about the changes to the bard class than I am about other 1DD stuff so far. The Origins playtest was a slam dunk, but this one feels like it might need another go through the wash to me. That's all.
Thank you. The reduction in uses of bardic inspiration is a really big nerf, not only to the base bard, but to several subclasses as well (any subclass that lets you use your bardic inspiration to do something else.) And it's basically the class's most iconic feature!
----
To make this take a bit spicier, imagine if they do this to paladins. Divine smite uses = proficiency bonus / long rest, and it uses your reaction so you can only ever use it once per turn.
Its one less at most levels, that is not exactly a massive nerf, slowing the short rest thing until 7th is a nerf but again not massive. With a paladin, the reaction part would be a nerf, though I don't think a massive one, the prof bonus part a tiny one at best. But with bardic inspiration a reaction is just a much a buff as it is a nerf imo. Being able to say oh crap we can't have bob fail that save right now is a big boon, while losing out being able to hand it to multiple people is a nerf so it balances out.
Oiy. I'm specifically saying, more'n once, that this doc is gonna take a few run-throughs to absorb and start formulating proper opinions on. First-blush reactions are just that. Don't @ me bro. Hueh.
As for "all bards must ALWAYS be Ultramusicians"?. I direct your attention to the class fluff for bards:
"Invoking magic through music, dance, and verse, Bards are expert at inspiring others, soothing hurts, disheartening foes, and creating illusions. Bards believe that the creators of the multiverse spoke and signed it into existence and that remnants of those Words of Creation still resound and glimmer on every plane of existence. The magic of Bards is an attempt to harness those words—which transcend any language—and direct them to create new wonders. Almost anything can inspire a new song or tale, so Bards are fascinated by almost everything. They have a wide-ranging knowledge of many subjects and develop an aptitude to do almost anything well. Bards become masters of many things, including musical performance, the workings of magic, and the formation of jests. Not every singer or poet in a tavern or jester in a royal court is a Bard. Harnessing the Words of Creation requires hard work and some measure of natural talent that most troubadours and jongleurs lack. It can sometimes be hard to spot the difference between these performers and Bards, though. A Bard’s life is spent wandering across the land gathering lore, telling stories, and living on the gratitude of audiences, much like any other entertainer. But Bards’ depth of knowledge, level of musical skill, and mastery of magic sets them apart."
Bards invoke magic through music, dance, and verse. They're fishing for the Words of Creation, basically the "music, dance and verse" of the cosmos. They're inspired by new songs or tales - not new knowledge or anything else, specifically "songs or tales". The class is specifically compared to singers, poets, and jesters - not to adventurers. Want to make an awesome magical Indiana Jones-esque polymath? NOPE. You have to make Jaskier, instead. Want to make a tricksy fey witch who just uses the bard chassis because it's the closest mechanical approximation of what you want? NOOOPE. Gotta be Jaskier. Want to make a wandering war skald trying to prove herself to her clan and collect new tales of battle and bravery to add to her ancestor's Tome of Heroes? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPE. You get to Toss a Coin to Your Witcher(!!) and spend every combat doing sick lute solos* instead of fighting.
Yes, I understand that the class fluff isn't necessary, but man it's really disheartening to see them going all-in on the Musical Dandyman ****ery in the 1DD document when the base bard actually made half an attempt to acknowledge that bards aren't always necessarily horny song fops. Blegh. This is one meme I dearly wish the community would just let die already.
I feel like you could still make a Fey witch with that fluff. After all, what is double double, toil and trouble, fire burn and cauldron bubble but verse? A spellcaster invoking the Words of Creation, harnessing the stuff of reality through verse and meter, inspired by the ancient Lore passed down the generations of their coven?
I'm not saying it's perfect, but bard as a poet-witch makes more thematic sense to me than the more simplistic witch-as-warlock interpretation.
Lots of give and take here. Some good... lots of bad.
Expertise. I actually don't mind Expertise at level 2 and Jack at 5. I actually find I like it better - it always bothered me a bit that I had to wait so long to get Expertise on the bard, that I'm actually happy for this swap. It feels better, and getting that immediate boost is good. I'm a little disappointed there weren't any Expertise-themed feats, though. If you're going to have a group defined by Expertise skill, then why not give them stuff based on their Expertise? I suppose all the various skill-based feats count, but it just feels a little disappointing that Warriors are already getting Warrior-specific feats and Experts... aren't getting any Expert feats.
Bardic Inspiration. Lets start with the good. Reaction Inspiration. Awesome. The best. I cannot tell you how often people have forgotten I gave them Inspiration. There's a few niche cases where this is worse, but overall I like it. Reaction-based healing. Okay, pretty neat. Someone about to go down from damage? INSTANTLY ON FEET AGAIN. That is the best. But.. now for the bad. You get less uses per rest than 2014, and short rest recharge got pushed back to level 7. That hurts. Remember that most games end starting around level 8. That means 2 or 3 uses per day for most of your adventuring career. And this is supposed to be THE defining thing for bards. Its what separates a bard from, say, an Arcane Trickster or an Illusionist wizard.
Song of Restoration: Five healing spells, for free. That's good; I like not having to waste spells known on taking these. The disappearance of Song of Rest, lack of any kind of short rest healing and any kind of resurrection/revivify? Not so good. I mean, you can still heal through Bardic Inspiration as well, but... super limited and bad scaling. The bard can heal in a pinch, keep you from falling mid fight, which is admittedly awesome, but I wouldn't count on them to be dedicated healers anymore, which is sad.
Countercharm: No longer exists in any form.
Spells. Okay, Heroism is no longer on the bard list. No more Bane. Druidic spells like Animal Friendship and Faerie Fire? Gone. I notice that they had to change Shatter and Thunderwave from Evocation to Transmutation spells, just to let the bard have them, so that's a good thing. But the fact that they did have to change them, and I'm feeling the loss of so many iconic bard magics here, and that's just with looking over level 1 magic... no, this just does not work for me. Either make a Mystic (or whatever you want to call it) spell list for bard and maybe warlock to share, or give them those four spell schools from every list. Bards are not just stunted wizards with a few healing magics.
Subclass. The Good!!! Four subclass levels instead of three. Excellent. I like subclass levels. The Bad... Okay, so Lore bard no longer has Magical Secrets. Alas. The Ugly--- Its very Bardic Inspiration heavy, and we have so few uses of it that I'm afraid that the entire subclass kind of... ends up as dead levels for most of the day. Niche abilities.
We now have even more Bardic Inspiration uses and more skills. Okay, more skills is cool. Cutting Words was cool back in 5e, so should still be good, but I'm kinda feeling the strain of three different functions of Inspiration with only 2~3 uses a day. Cunning Inspiration is advantage on your inspiration roll. Okay, not bad. I'm hoping that it stacks with Cutting Words, but I'm not sure. Improved Cutting Words at level 10 lets you deal psychic damage on top of reducing an attack or ability check, and by now you should be getting some back on short rest. Its like a free, mini Vicious Mockery as a Reaction. Neat, even if its not WoW!!!-ing me. Peerless Skill is basically the same, which was always cool.
Overall, the bard just feels bad. There's a number of new things we get are nice, admittedly, but each of them comes with a caveat that ripped something else really cool out.
I think it was a nice streamline to work two-weapon fighting into the light weapon property.
Actually, I need to amend this statement. You no longer need to use your bonus action for TWF.
I wonder if in later rules we see a option where if you dual wield 2 weapons that are not light it does still take your bonus action to make the extra attack.
I'm generally liking the changes they've made to the feats. Keen Mind looks like something I'd actually take now for something other than flavor reasons, and Observant giving Expertise is probably easier to deal with than the boost to passive scores. The only change that has me sad is the removal of the ritual book from Ritual Caster. It really cuts off non-spellcasting classes that want to dip into magical rituals at the knees, since there's no ability to expand the rituals available.
Spells. Okay, Heroism is no longer on the bard list. No more Bane. Druidic spells like Animal Friendship and Faerie Fire? Gone. I notice that they had to change Shatter and Thunderwave from Evocation to Transmutation spells, just to let the bard have them, so that's a good thing. But the fact that they did have to change them, and I'm feeling the loss of so many iconic bard magics here, and that's just with looking over level 1 magic... no, this just does not work for me. Either make a Mystic (or whatever you want to call it) spell list for bard and maybe warlock to share, or give them those four spell schools from every list. Bards are not just stunted wizards with a few healing magics.
While thematically I do not like the spell list changes as classes feel less unique balance wise I think bards gained more than they lost spell wise. Yeah there are primal/divine spells lost but at every level they gained arcane spells as well.
Inspiration the number per day is only 1 less at most levels until it catches up and then eventually passes it at very high levels. I do think shifting the short rest part to 7th level was a bad call, but its not that massive its only two levels. Personally I'd just have it a short rest from level 1 and put in something else entirely at level 7 that enhances it, like steal from eloquence and say if the person still fails the check the inspiration is not expended. Not that they need it balance wise as they are still one of the best classes in the game and I think overall better than they were before, but just because thematically that should be their thing and the class should focus on it more.
I'm generally liking the changes they've made to the feats. Keen Mind looks like something I'd actually take now for something other than flavor reasons, and Observant giving Expertise is probably easier to deal with than the boost to passive scores. The only change that has me sad is the removal of the ritual book from Ritual Caster. It really cuts off non-spellcasting classes that want to dip into magical rituals at the knees, since there's no ability to expand the rituals available.
Yeah I noticed that when I read it and then promptly forgot about it. Which is sad as I have been saying they need to expand rituals for non casters.
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I mean sure they don't have the full arcane list but they didn't in 5e either, they had a specific spell list which was pretty much arcane spells from the 4 schools they have access to with a couple from divine/primal and missing out on a few from the arcane in those schools. And while yes they can't up known spells they can change them daily which is massively better imo. I'd say overall their spell casting has been massively improved. While synaptic static is gone for example that is because well its just gone as it was not a PH spell, it is still a enchantment/arcane spell so once that supplement comes out you would have access to it. Sure fairy fire and bestow curse are dropped and teleportation circle and plant growth but a few spells were picked up as well, as they did not have every arcane divination, enchantment, transmutation and illusion spell as a quick example they did not have fly or gaseous form before, now they do as well as telekinesis. So while specific build based around a couple specific spells might not be possible other builds based around other spells may now be and overall the spell list seems balanced with what was in 5e.
I think they are about even on their inspiring words stuff a reaction is a pretty strong way to do it, ideally they would have both a bonus action that lasted a few minutes and a oh crap button with a reaction but neither is inherently better. They do get less which sucks but its not a big loss as its really a fairly minor side feature as is, personally while i know its out of the scope of what they wanted to do I wish they were 1/2 casters and they had really enhanced this feature so they were using it every round.
Don't get me wrong I always though this song of creation crap was a stupid justification for their magic, I would have gone with more D&D tradition and tied their magic to how they are lore focused, but other than needing to have 3 musical instrument proficiencies nothing is forcing you down that path really, even the starting skills they flat out say or pick whatever you want for the bard.
On steel wind strike, its a spell from a supplement not the PH I suspect most spells from supplements wont be in this.
“Music, dance, and verse” is only 1/3 music, and equating any of that with “dandyman ****ery” is extremely weird. The entire description that you quoted is an acknowledgment that bards aren’t always “horny song fops.” Yeah, it’s also an acknowledgment that bards are still bards, which is a word that means something, and that something is not Indiana Jones (an extremely horny ****boy, it’s worth pointing out). But your inability to shake yourself of some weird stereotypes definitely feels like a you problem.
Good. Combo was dumb. Sentinel-by-itself is improved (note: Sentinel no longer disqualifies itself! Build your Spartan shieldwalls, folks!), and Polearm Master is...annoyingly nerfed, but in ways I understand. Even if it totally spikes my awesome PAM Spear/Shield skirmisher Ranger.
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No spells from any supplements are in this, including Elemental Evil/SCAG which both came out relatively quickly after the PHB in '14.
I almost never read the "fluff" provided as I almost always create my own to mesh with my character concept, but I understand your annoyance though. I do wish that instead of wasting space on "suggested prepared spell lists", that they would double down on reminding people that the fluff can be what ever you want it to be by providing alternative fluff ideas.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
also seems this playtest package is supposed to run with the standard crit rules not the crit rules from the last package.
As in the section attack roll they refer to the PHB for crit rules.
Yeah, I totally thought it was a PHB spell because its been around so long. my bad.
Thank you. The reduction in uses of bardic inspiration is a really big nerf, not only to the base bard, but to several subclasses as well (any subclass that lets you use your bardic inspiration to do something else.) And it's basically the class's most iconic feature!
Not having bane or faerie fire is extremely disappointing. I've taken one or both of these for every bard I've played. If this is how spell lists are going to be handled for other classes, I'm not sure if I'm a fan.
Bards aren't damage dealers. A good bard is capable in some areas, but really helps other characters shine. Why nerf the latter part? These changes make the class feel way less unique and useful, and I think it will be less fun for everyone at the table.
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To make this take a bit spicier, imagine if they do this to paladins. Divine smite uses = proficiency bonus / long rest, and it uses your reaction so you can only ever use it once per turn.
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ModeratorCorrect. Unless you're multiclassed Bladesinger / Rogue, because Bladesinger can cast it as part of the Attack Action.
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Well, you can still take Faerie Fire, but you would have to use your Background Feat on Magic Initiate (Primal) to do it. I know that isn't what you want, but I just wanted to point out that it is still possible.
Edit: I would be ok with Divine Smite getting nerfed in such away.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Its one less at most levels, that is not exactly a massive nerf, slowing the short rest thing until 7th is a nerf but again not massive. With a paladin, the reaction part would be a nerf, though I don't think a massive one, the prof bonus part a tiny one at best. But with bardic inspiration a reaction is just a much a buff as it is a nerf imo. Being able to say oh crap we can't have bob fail that save right now is a big boon, while losing out being able to hand it to multiple people is a nerf so it balances out.
Actually, I need to amend this statement. You no longer need to use your bonus action for TWF.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I feel like you could still make a Fey witch with that fluff. After all, what is double double, toil and trouble, fire burn and cauldron bubble but verse? A spellcaster invoking the Words of Creation, harnessing the stuff of reality through verse and meter, inspired by the ancient Lore passed down the generations of their coven?
I'm not saying it's perfect, but bard as a poet-witch makes more thematic sense to me than the more simplistic witch-as-warlock interpretation.
The Bard
Lots of give and take here. Some good... lots of bad.
Expertise. I actually don't mind Expertise at level 2 and Jack at 5. I actually find I like it better - it always bothered me a bit that I had to wait so long to get Expertise on the bard, that I'm actually happy for this swap. It feels better, and getting that immediate boost is good. I'm a little disappointed there weren't any Expertise-themed feats, though. If you're going to have a group defined by Expertise skill, then why not give them stuff based on their Expertise? I suppose all the various skill-based feats count, but it just feels a little disappointing that Warriors are already getting Warrior-specific feats and Experts... aren't getting any Expert feats.
Bardic Inspiration. Lets start with the good. Reaction Inspiration. Awesome. The best. I cannot tell you how often people have forgotten I gave them Inspiration. There's a few niche cases where this is worse, but overall I like it. Reaction-based healing. Okay, pretty neat. Someone about to go down from damage? INSTANTLY ON FEET AGAIN. That is the best. But.. now for the bad. You get less uses per rest than 2014, and short rest recharge got pushed back to level 7. That hurts. Remember that most games end starting around level 8. That means 2 or 3 uses per day for most of your adventuring career. And this is supposed to be THE defining thing for bards. Its what separates a bard from, say, an Arcane Trickster or an Illusionist wizard.
Song of Restoration: Five healing spells, for free. That's good; I like not having to waste spells known on taking these. The disappearance of Song of Rest, lack of any kind of short rest healing and any kind of resurrection/revivify? Not so good. I mean, you can still heal through Bardic Inspiration as well, but... super limited and bad scaling. The bard can heal in a pinch, keep you from falling mid fight, which is admittedly awesome, but I wouldn't count on them to be dedicated healers anymore, which is sad.
Countercharm: No longer exists in any form.
Spells. Okay, Heroism is no longer on the bard list. No more Bane. Druidic spells like Animal Friendship and Faerie Fire? Gone. I notice that they had to change Shatter and Thunderwave from Evocation to Transmutation spells, just to let the bard have them, so that's a good thing. But the fact that they did have to change them, and I'm feeling the loss of so many iconic bard magics here, and that's just with looking over level 1 magic... no, this just does not work for me. Either make a Mystic (or whatever you want to call it) spell list for bard and maybe warlock to share, or give them those four spell schools from every list. Bards are not just stunted wizards with a few healing magics.
Subclass. The Good!!! Four subclass levels instead of three. Excellent. I like subclass levels. The Bad... Okay, so Lore bard no longer has Magical Secrets. Alas. The Ugly--- Its very Bardic Inspiration heavy, and we have so few uses of it that I'm afraid that the entire subclass kind of... ends up as dead levels for most of the day. Niche abilities.
We now have even more Bardic Inspiration uses and more skills. Okay, more skills is cool. Cutting Words was cool back in 5e, so should still be good, but I'm kinda feeling the strain of three different functions of Inspiration with only 2~3 uses a day. Cunning Inspiration is advantage on your inspiration roll. Okay, not bad. I'm hoping that it stacks with Cutting Words, but I'm not sure. Improved Cutting Words at level 10 lets you deal psychic damage on top of reducing an attack or ability check, and by now you should be getting some back on short rest. Its like a free, mini Vicious Mockery as a Reaction. Neat, even if its not WoW!!!-ing me. Peerless Skill is basically the same, which was always cool.
Overall, the bard just feels bad. There's a number of new things we get are nice, admittedly, but each of them comes with a caveat that ripped something else really cool out.
I wonder if in later rules we see a option where if you dual wield 2 weapons that are not light it does still take your bonus action to make the extra attack.
They posted a few more videos on Youtube concerning the Expert Classes UA.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
I'm generally liking the changes they've made to the feats. Keen Mind looks like something I'd actually take now for something other than flavor reasons, and Observant giving Expertise is probably easier to deal with than the boost to passive scores. The only change that has me sad is the removal of the ritual book from Ritual Caster. It really cuts off non-spellcasting classes that want to dip into magical rituals at the knees, since there's no ability to expand the rituals available.
While thematically I do not like the spell list changes as classes feel less unique balance wise I think bards gained more than they lost spell wise. Yeah there are primal/divine spells lost but at every level they gained arcane spells as well.
Inspiration the number per day is only 1 less at most levels until it catches up and then eventually passes it at very high levels. I do think shifting the short rest part to 7th level was a bad call, but its not that massive its only two levels. Personally I'd just have it a short rest from level 1 and put in something else entirely at level 7 that enhances it, like steal from eloquence and say if the person still fails the check the inspiration is not expended. Not that they need it balance wise as they are still one of the best classes in the game and I think overall better than they were before, but just because thematically that should be their thing and the class should focus on it more.
Yeah I noticed that when I read it and then promptly forgot about it. Which is sad as I have been saying they need to expand rituals for non casters.