Further I am further BAFFLED by the loss of Thief's Use object or even interact with object as a bonus action loss given the fact that Use magic item has been placed under the MAGIC action.
I believe this has been done to eliminate the potionholic abuse, though I don't really see it as much of a deal. If a PC wants to throw stuff that costs money around, let them.
Gaming sets and musical instruments. One thing I am still wondering is why are there multiple instrument or gaming set proficiencies? What is the mechanical difference between having proficiency with a horn and proficiency with a flute? If it wasn't for the fact that you could gain advantage if you had performance AND a musical instrument I would be really wondering why Instrument proficiency existed at all instead of just performance.
This weirds me out, too. Basically, performance skill makes you a theatrical actor or a stand-up comedian. Not the most crucial thing in DnD. While common sense says that playing violin and playing bagpipe are very different skills, mechanically there's no difference whatsoever in game. And how does proficiency with musical instruments even work without perform? You can play, but you can't... do it artistically? Do it on public? So yeah, I'm all for folding musical instruments into perform skill.
If you are proficient with an instrument and have proficiency in the Performance skill you get both proficiency and advantage to the check. If you only have one or the other you only get proficiency.
Instrument proficiency means you're able to create music with that instrument. You can play, and you know the care and maintenance of the instrument as well as how to find parts for it should you need to. You're able to call yourself a musician, at least to some degree.
Proficiency with Performance means you know how to thrill and entertain a crowd, or how to immerse yourself into a role. You can read an audience, know how to appeal to them, and can command their enthusiasm for your performance. Alternatively, Performance rather than Deception is the correct skill proficiency to apply should a PC desire to convince others they are someone else. Impersonation of an individual, an official, or a person of a specific class or title is Performance, not Deception.
The two proficiencies are not equivalent and never have been. This is similar to saying "all tools should disappear and just be folded into the Sleight of Hand skill, because Sleight of Hand is for doing fancy things with your fingers." That's not at all what that skill is for, and the game would be worse for losing a big chunk of what little feeble granularity it's managed to retain.
Further being able to play one instrument does not allow you to play all instruments, not even all instruments in a single group like strings, woodwinds, horns etc. these are every bit as much separate skills as jeweler/goldsmith, blacksmith, armorer, bladesmith etc. are there parts of each that are similar but more is different than is the same.
Well, it honestly looks like they're dialing back on the whole "Tools replace skills" thing. For the most part, it feels like we are moving into the territory of "tools give you advantage on skill check" more than anything.
Like, Perform seems to be working with the Actor feat and Disguise kits to let you pose as someone else, a kind of variation of Deception (in the same way that Diplomacy and Intimidate approach convincing people differently, and Acrobatics / Athletics can both be used to jump).
So, you want to bust out those gaming sets or brewing set when you're trying to go around and doing a Charisma (Investigation) check to gather information. If you're trying to distract the guards so the group can sneak past, a DC 15 Charisma (Performance) check is a lot easier to hit with a backup instrument check.
I really kinda hate that everybody assumes Acrobatics and Athletics are interchangeable. They're very different skills with very different functions. Yes, you can use different base stats with them, but that doesn't mean they're not different skills. The game is worse when everybody assumes Acro isn just the Dexy version of Athletics and lets people get away with dumb shit because they want to dump Strength without paying for it.
I really kinda hate that everybody assumes Acrobatics and Athletics are interchangeable. They're very different skills with very different functions. Yes, you can use different base stats with them, but that doesn't mean they're not different skills. The game is worse when everybody assumes Acro isn just the Dexy version of Athletics and lets people get away with dumb shit because they want to dump Strength without paying for it.
I honestly never remember the difference. I mean, yeah there is a difference, but I've not met two people who could agree on what it was and adequately explain it to me. So I think forgetting that they aren't interchangeable is a forgivable mistake, and I think WotC did a very poor job at explaining the difference between the two in 5e. I hope they do a better job at that in 1DD.
I really kinda hate that everybody assumes Acrobatics and Athletics are interchangeable. They're very different skills with very different functions. Yes, you can use different base stats with them, but that doesn't mean they're not different skills. The game is worse when everybody assumes Acro isn just the Dexy version of Athletics and lets people get away with dumb shit because they want to dump Strength without paying for it.
Well, I only brought them up because the UA pdf specifically says that you can use either for the Jump action. So... I guess even the writers feel they're a bit interchangable, at least in this case?
I honestly never remember the difference. I mean, yeah there is a difference, but I've not met two people who could agree on what it was and adequately explain it to me. So I think forgetting that they aren't interchangeable is a forgivable mistake, and I think WotC did a very poor job at explaining the difference between the two in 5e. I hope they do a better job at that in 1DD.
The difference is very simple.
Athletics is exactly what it says it is - athletic ability. Running, jumping, climbing, swimming - anything that you might find at a track and field meet. it is not just "proficiency in being strong"; very strong people can be quite poor athletically. Athletics proficiency represents training in the proper means to perform athletic activities, how to conserve and maximize your endurance, how to use the least effort and force to achieve a desired goal. The Athletics proficiency is, more or less, "are you a fit and active athlete, or are you a slug?"
Acrobatics is agility, balance, whole body coordination, flexibility, and the ability to move precisely in unorthodox ways. Tumbling, swinging, balance exercises, contortionism, all the domain of Acrobatics. Proficiency in Athletics represents training in flexibility exercises, a focus on superb coordination and balance, and the ability to precisely control your movements, momentum, and direction even from unusual positions or stances.
In very short: -Athletics is the art of moving efficiently -Acrobatics is the art of moving precisely
Precision and efficiency are both desireable traits, but they are not equivalent traits and never have been.
I honestly never remember the difference. I mean, yeah there is a difference, but I've not met two people who could agree on what it was and adequately explain it to me. So I think forgetting that they aren't interchangeable is a forgivable mistake, and I think WotC did a very poor job at explaining the difference between the two in 5e. I hope they do a better job at that in 1DD.
The difference is very simple.
Athletics is exactly what it says it is - athletic ability. Running, jumping, climbing, swimming - anything that you might find at a track and field meet. it is not just "proficiency in being strong"; very strong people can be quite poor athletically. Athletics proficiency represents training in the proper means to perform athletic activities, how to conserve and maximize your endurance, how to use the least effort and force to achieve a desired goal. The Athletics proficiency is, more or less, "are you a fit and active athlete, or are you a slug?"
Acrobatics is agility, balance, whole body coordination, flexibility, and the ability to move precisely in unorthodox ways. Tumbling, swinging, balance exercises, contortionism, all the domain of Acrobatics. Proficiency in Athletics represents training in flexibility exercises, a focus on superb coordination and balance, and the ability to precisely control your movements, momentum, and direction even from unusual positions or stances.
In very short: -Athletics is the art of moving efficiently -Acrobatics is the art of moving precisely
Precision and efficiency are both desireable traits, but they are not equivalent traits and never have been.
Thank you for explaining it to me:) That's probably the best explanation someones ever given me on this. But anyways, I think the two are quite similar even if the two do have differences. And as Mephista pointed out, the relevant thing we were talking about is how they could both be used to jump in 1DD, not that they were completely interchangeable, but that they were interchangeable in this one instance.
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Shall we merge all of the 'Knowing Stuff' skills into one "Knowingness" skill, then? After all, every time you split a skill you're putting an extra tax on that skill's generally associated stat. Why do Intelligence characters have to burn five proficiencies to get the same benefit people get from one Strength proficiency?
The fact that the writers are allowing Athletics or Acrobatics for their playtest doesn't mean they're correct.
Shall we merge all of the 'Knowing Stuff' skills into one "Knowingness" skill, then? After all, every time you split a skill you're putting an extra tax on that skill's generally associated stat. Why do Intelligence characters have to burn five proficiencies to get the same benefit people get from one Strength proficiency?
Just because two things are similar doesn't mean all distinction between them should be removed. It means that distinction should be better explained. No one here has proposed merging athletics and acrobatics together.
Further being able to play one instrument does not allow you to play all instruments, not even all instruments in a single group like strings, woodwinds, horns etc. these are every bit as much separate skills as jeweler/goldsmith, blacksmith, armorer, bladesmith etc. are there parts of each that are similar but more is different than is the same.
Mechanically in what way? Jewelers can make different things mechanically from a blacksmith. Instruments allow you to play music. Regardless of which instrument it is. Different music doesn't do different things. Different items do though.
I am not suggesting rolling rolling instruments into performance, I am suggesting just having one "musical instrument" tool proficiency, because every time I see "you learn 3 musical instruments tools" as if that is somehow equivalent to getting more than 1 artisan tool it makes me laugh. It is a tool proficiency tax for musicians for some reason.
I really kinda hate that everybody assumes Acrobatics and Athletics are interchangeable. They're very different skills with very different functions. Yes, you can use different base stats with them, but that doesn't mean they're not different skills. The game is worse when everybody assumes Acro isn just the Dexy version of Athletics and lets people get away with dumb shit because they want to dump Strength without paying for it.
I really kinda hate that everybody assumes Acrobatics and Athletics are interchangeable. They're very different skills with very different functions. Yes, you can use different base stats with them, but that doesn't mean they're not different skills. The game is worse when everybody assumes Acro isn just the Dexy version of Athletics and lets people get away with dumb shit because they want to dump
Here is hte trick..... I AM NOT assuming they are the same thing. I know the differences between acrobatics and athletics. The problem is the game doesn't seem to know the difference. Further we are getting fewer and fewer uses for both athletics and acrobatics. By dumping one of them and rolling it into the other you increase the usage of at least one of those skills. I can not think of a single unathletic acrobat. Though I can think of plenty of athletes that are not very acrobatic. Each skill competes with one another and athletics and acrobatics are not competing with the myriad uses for other skills right now.
I mean were you opposed to when they made Spot and Listen into a single Perception skill. Spotting is VERY different from Listening after all.
Shall we merge all of the 'Knowing Stuff' skills into one "Knowingness" skill, then? After all, every time you split a skill you're putting an extra tax on that skill's generally associated stat. Why do Intelligence characters have to burn five proficiencies to get the same benefit people get from one Strength proficiency?
The fact that the writers are allowing Athletics or Acrobatics for their playtest doesn't mean they're correct.
Oh simple, because they have actually established MULTIPLE uses for each of the various knowledge skills. Each one has a LARGE domain of effects they rule over.
Lets look at your athletics vs acrobatics thing as an example
Athletics: Running (NOPE that is dictated by your movement speed and the dash action), Climbing (NOPE that is dictated by your movement speed, even "Difficult terrain" climbing specifically does not require a check) Swimming (Same thing as climbing) Jumping (this can also be done with acrobatics now), and Lifting (this is the only unique thing that athletics has left in its domain).
Acrobatics Balance (Nope this is going to be a Dexterity saving throw not a skill check for almost everything that will try to knock you off balance), Tumbling (the benefit of which is flavor since again, movement is determined by speed. Only part of tumbling that isn't is being able to clear distances with a tumbled jump.... which is why acrobatics can jump now) Contorting to fit into a small space (Nope those are the squeeze through rules). The rest sure.
We are not suggesting rolling ALL movement based skills into one skill. Stealth and sleight of hand are fine and have plenty of uses. Heck you could even fit most of what you don't roll into athletics into stealth. Contorting into a small box to sneak into something... sure make that stealth. The distinction you made between efficient and precise body movement is exactly the kind of small enough difference to make both niche. Rather than just one "brawn" skill which says "you know how to move your body".
I don't like giving jumping to Acrobatics either. The whole point of Athletics and Acrobatics was to combine the old Jump / Climb / Swim skills into one STR-based skill, along with Tumble / Balance into one DEX-based skill. In fact, that's how I kind of separate them still, even with Jump now spread between the two of them. Athletics are jumping, climbing and swimming, while acrobatics is tumbling and balancing along with jumping.
I suspect the main reason for moving acrobatics to jumping is to let those Thief-acrobats be able to run along rooftops while doing second story work. Blame the rogues.
Personally, I'd turn acrobatic jumps into a thief thing and let them be really good at it via Expertise.
I imagine not - acrobatics is a type of athletics, after all. At least in real life. Its like cooking and baking. All bakers are cooks, but not all cooks are bakers.
That's part of the probelm with the D&D skills seemingly so similar - not the best name choices
Further being able to play one instrument does not allow you to play all instruments, not even all instruments in a single group like strings, woodwinds, horns etc. these are every bit as much separate skills as jeweler/goldsmith, blacksmith, armorer, bladesmith etc. are there parts of each that are similar but more is different than is the same.
Mechanically in what way? Jewelers can make different things mechanically from a blacksmith. Instruments allow you to play music. Regardless of which instrument it is. Different music doesn't do different things. Different items do though.
I am not suggesting rolling rolling instruments into performance, I am suggesting just having one "musical instrument" tool proficiency, because every time I see "you learn 3 musical instruments tools" as if that is somehow equivalent to getting more than 1 artisan tool it makes me laugh. It is a tool proficiency tax for musicians for some reason.
I’m sorry but I really have to wonder if you play 1+ instruments or have ever taken any smithing classes. I will grant that for a bard whether they are playing a lute or a harp as they cast a spell or grant inspiration doesn’t matter mechanically in the game (or even playing the flute potentially despite the fact that you can’t talk/sing while playing) the reality is that just because you can play the lute doesn’t mean you can play the harp the actual skills are different in terms of things like eye-hand coordination and fingerings. I played flute for 8 years and was proficient I. It ( not expertise) at one point I was required to learn a little of several other instruments ( clarinet, trumpet, drums) and was a world of its own. Similarly I was trained to do basic silversmithing and later took an interest in bladesmithing and found that in fact very little of the silversmithing skills translated smoothly into blade smithing skills. Like languages musical instruments and smithing skills ( at least) are very different even when closely related. ( I failed French after taking Spanish because I understood the questions as the words wore very similar but would then reply in Spanish instead of French.) I’m actually for more skills not fewer.
Further being able to play one instrument does not allow you to play all instruments, not even all instruments in a single group like strings, woodwinds, horns etc. these are every bit as much separate skills as jeweler/goldsmith, blacksmith, armorer, bladesmith etc. are there parts of each that are similar but more is different than is the same.
Mechanically in what way? Jewelers can make different things mechanically from a blacksmith. Instruments allow you to play music. Regardless of which instrument it is. Different music doesn't do different things. Different items do though.
I am not suggesting rolling rolling instruments into performance, I am suggesting just having one "musical instrument" tool proficiency, because every time I see "you learn 3 musical instruments tools" as if that is somehow equivalent to getting more than 1 artisan tool it makes me laugh. It is a tool proficiency tax for musicians for some reason.
I’m sorry but I really have to wonder if you play 1+ instruments or have ever taken any smithing classes. I will grant that for a bard whether they are playing a lute or a harp as they cast a spell or grant inspiration doesn’t matter mechanically in the game (or even playing the flute potentially despite the fact that you can’t talk/sing while playing) the reality is that just because you can play the lute doesn’t mean you can play the harp the actual skills are different in terms of things like eye-hand coordination and fingerings. I played flute for 8 years and was proficient I. It ( not expertise) at one point I was required to learn a little of several other instruments ( clarinet, trumpet, drums) and was a world of its own. Similarly I was trained to do basic silversmithing and later took an interest in bladesmithing and found that in fact very little of the silversmithing skills translated smoothly into blade smithing skills. Like languages musical instruments and smithing skills ( at least) are very different even when closely related. ( I failed French after taking Spanish because I understood the questions as the words wore very similar but would then reply in Spanish instead of French.) I’m actually for more skills not fewer.
Real world vs fantasy is not the same. We are talking about mechanical benefits to features not real world. Real world I can play MOST brass instruments to varying degrees. And a little piano. Yes the "skill set" is different, but they all make music. I can play the same song regardless of which brass instrument I pick up. It will sound a little different because of tembre, but it will still be the same song.
If DnD were a reality simulator there would be a million skills. It isn't.
There is a mechanical difference between artisan tool skills in the form of what you can make and do. There is not with musical instruments.
I don't like giving jumping to Acrobatics either. The whole point of Athletics and Acrobatics was to combine the old Jump / Climb / Swim skills into one STR-based skill, along with Tumble / Balance into one DEX-based skill. In fact, that's how I kind of separate them still, even with Jump now spread between the two of them. Athletics are jumping, climbing and swimming, while acrobatics is tumbling and balancing along with jumping.
I suspect the main reason for moving acrobatics to jumping is to let those Thief-acrobats be able to run along rooftops while doing second story work. Blame the rogues.
Personally, I'd turn acrobatic jumps into a thief thing and let them be really good at it via Expertise.
This is kind of exactly my point. Originally in 5e is the case and it is fine.
With the new rules glossary, grappling is saves and fighting, swimming is movement, climbing is movement. Even if you have no climb or swim speed, climbing or swimming in difficult terrain just costs you more movement.
Balance from acrobatics has largely been wrapped into dex and strength saves.
There isn't much left for either of these skills to do. It is a slow chip away, but there is a point when you don't have much of a stone left to chip at.
I recognize that DnD is fantasy extracted from reality. I’m happy you play multiple instruments even if it leaves me confused why you you don’t see the need to keep the mechanical differences between instruments but that is my problem not yours - no need to try to explain- I just can’t see having only one skill: play instrument, I could maybe accept grouping them. - horns, percussion, woodwinds, strings with bows, strings without bows, or something similar but to me that’s like lumping French, Spanish, Italian and Portuguese into a single “ Romance languages” group and saying if you can speak one then you can speak all of them.
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If you are proficient with an instrument and have proficiency in the Performance skill you get both proficiency and advantage to the check. If you only have one or the other you only get proficiency.
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Instrument proficiency means you're able to create music with that instrument. You can play, and you know the care and maintenance of the instrument as well as how to find parts for it should you need to. You're able to call yourself a musician, at least to some degree.
Proficiency with Performance means you know how to thrill and entertain a crowd, or how to immerse yourself into a role. You can read an audience, know how to appeal to them, and can command their enthusiasm for your performance. Alternatively, Performance rather than Deception is the correct skill proficiency to apply should a PC desire to convince others they are someone else. Impersonation of an individual, an official, or a person of a specific class or title is Performance, not Deception.
The two proficiencies are not equivalent and never have been. This is similar to saying "all tools should disappear and just be folded into the Sleight of Hand skill, because Sleight of Hand is for doing fancy things with your fingers." That's not at all what that skill is for, and the game would be worse for losing a big chunk of what little feeble granularity it's managed to retain.
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Further being able to play one instrument does not allow you to play all instruments, not even all instruments in a single group like strings, woodwinds, horns etc. these are every bit as much separate skills as jeweler/goldsmith, blacksmith, armorer, bladesmith etc. are there parts of each that are similar but more is different than is the same.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Well, it honestly looks like they're dialing back on the whole "Tools replace skills" thing. For the most part, it feels like we are moving into the territory of "tools give you advantage on skill check" more than anything.
Like, Perform seems to be working with the Actor feat and Disguise kits to let you pose as someone else, a kind of variation of Deception (in the same way that Diplomacy and Intimidate approach convincing people differently, and Acrobatics / Athletics can both be used to jump).
So, you want to bust out those gaming sets or brewing set when you're trying to go around and doing a Charisma (Investigation) check to gather information. If you're trying to distract the guards so the group can sneak past, a DC 15 Charisma (Performance) check is a lot easier to hit with a backup instrument check.
I really kinda hate that everybody assumes Acrobatics and Athletics are interchangeable. They're very different skills with very different functions. Yes, you can use different base stats with them, but that doesn't mean they're not different skills. The game is worse when everybody assumes Acro isn just the Dexy version of Athletics and lets people get away with dumb shit because they want to dump Strength without paying for it.
Please do not contact or message me.
I honestly never remember the difference. I mean, yeah there is a difference, but I've not met two people who could agree on what it was and adequately explain it to me. So I think forgetting that they aren't interchangeable is a forgivable mistake, and I think WotC did a very poor job at explaining the difference between the two in 5e. I hope they do a better job at that in 1DD.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
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HERE.Well, I only brought them up because the UA pdf specifically says that you can use either for the Jump action. So... I guess even the writers feel they're a bit interchangable, at least in this case?
The difference is very simple.
Athletics is exactly what it says it is - athletic ability. Running, jumping, climbing, swimming - anything that you might find at a track and field meet. it is not just "proficiency in being strong"; very strong people can be quite poor athletically. Athletics proficiency represents training in the proper means to perform athletic activities, how to conserve and maximize your endurance, how to use the least effort and force to achieve a desired goal. The Athletics proficiency is, more or less, "are you a fit and active athlete, or are you a slug?"
Acrobatics is agility, balance, whole body coordination, flexibility, and the ability to move precisely in unorthodox ways. Tumbling, swinging, balance exercises, contortionism, all the domain of Acrobatics. Proficiency in Athletics represents training in flexibility exercises, a focus on superb coordination and balance, and the ability to precisely control your movements, momentum, and direction even from unusual positions or stances.
In very short:
-Athletics is the art of moving efficiently
-Acrobatics is the art of moving precisely
Precision and efficiency are both desireable traits, but they are not equivalent traits and never have been.
Please do not contact or message me.
Thank you for explaining it to me:) That's probably the best explanation someones ever given me on this. But anyways, I think the two are quite similar even if the two do have differences. And as Mephista pointed out, the relevant thing we were talking about is how they could both be used to jump in 1DD, not that they were completely interchangeable, but that they were interchangeable in this one instance.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.Shall we merge all of the 'Knowing Stuff' skills into one "Knowingness" skill, then? After all, every time you split a skill you're putting an extra tax on that skill's generally associated stat. Why do Intelligence characters have to burn five proficiencies to get the same benefit people get from one Strength proficiency?
The fact that the writers are allowing Athletics or Acrobatics for their playtest doesn't mean they're correct.
Please do not contact or message me.
Just because two things are similar doesn't mean all distinction between them should be removed. It means that distinction should be better explained. No one here has proposed merging athletics and acrobatics together.
It means that even they don't understand the distinction, which doesn't exactly support your argument that to most people the distinction is claer.
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HERE.Mechanically in what way? Jewelers can make different things mechanically from a blacksmith. Instruments allow you to play music. Regardless of which instrument it is. Different music doesn't do different things. Different items do though.
I am not suggesting rolling rolling instruments into performance, I am suggesting just having one "musical instrument" tool proficiency, because every time I see "you learn 3 musical instruments tools" as if that is somehow equivalent to getting more than 1 artisan tool it makes me laugh. It is a tool proficiency tax for musicians for some reason.
Here is hte trick..... I AM NOT assuming they are the same thing. I know the differences between acrobatics and athletics. The problem is the game doesn't seem to know the difference. Further we are getting fewer and fewer uses for both athletics and acrobatics. By dumping one of them and rolling it into the other you increase the usage of at least one of those skills. I can not think of a single unathletic acrobat. Though I can think of plenty of athletes that are not very acrobatic. Each skill competes with one another and athletics and acrobatics are not competing with the myriad uses for other skills right now.
I mean were you opposed to when they made Spot and Listen into a single Perception skill. Spotting is VERY different from Listening after all.
Oh simple, because they have actually established MULTIPLE uses for each of the various knowledge skills. Each one has a LARGE domain of effects they rule over.
Lets look at your athletics vs acrobatics thing as an example
Athletics: Running (NOPE that is dictated by your movement speed and the dash action), Climbing (NOPE that is dictated by your movement speed, even "Difficult terrain" climbing specifically does not require a check) Swimming (Same thing as climbing) Jumping (this can also be done with acrobatics now), and Lifting (this is the only unique thing that athletics has left in its domain).
Acrobatics Balance (Nope this is going to be a Dexterity saving throw not a skill check for almost everything that will try to knock you off balance), Tumbling (the benefit of which is flavor since again, movement is determined by speed. Only part of tumbling that isn't is being able to clear distances with a tumbled jump.... which is why acrobatics can jump now) Contorting to fit into a small space (Nope those are the squeeze through rules). The rest sure.
We are not suggesting rolling ALL movement based skills into one skill. Stealth and sleight of hand are fine and have plenty of uses. Heck you could even fit most of what you don't roll into athletics into stealth. Contorting into a small box to sneak into something... sure make that stealth. The distinction you made between efficient and precise body movement is exactly the kind of small enough difference to make both niche. Rather than just one "brawn" skill which says "you know how to move your body".
I don't like giving jumping to Acrobatics either. The whole point of Athletics and Acrobatics was to combine the old Jump / Climb / Swim skills into one STR-based skill, along with Tumble / Balance into one DEX-based skill. In fact, that's how I kind of separate them still, even with Jump now spread between the two of them. Athletics are jumping, climbing and swimming, while acrobatics is tumbling and balancing along with jumping.
I suspect the main reason for moving acrobatics to jumping is to let those Thief-acrobats be able to run along rooftops while doing second story work. Blame the rogues.
Personally, I'd turn acrobatic jumps into a thief thing and let them be really good at it via Expertise.
I’m sorry but I really have to wonder if you play 1+ instruments or have ever taken any smithing classes. I will grant that for a bard whether they are playing a lute or a harp as they cast a spell or grant inspiration doesn’t matter mechanically in the game (or even playing the flute potentially despite the fact that you can’t talk/sing while playing) the reality is that just because you can play the lute doesn’t mean you can play the harp the actual skills are different in terms of things like eye-hand coordination and fingerings. I played flute for 8 years and was proficient I. It ( not expertise) at one point I was required to learn a little of several other instruments ( clarinet, trumpet, drums) and was a world of its own. Similarly I was trained to do basic silversmithing and later took an interest in bladesmithing and found that in fact very little of the silversmithing skills translated smoothly into blade smithing skills. Like languages musical instruments and smithing skills ( at least) are very different even when closely related. ( I failed French after taking Spanish because I understood the questions as the words wore very similar but would then reply in Spanish instead of French.) I’m actually for more skills not fewer.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Real world vs fantasy is not the same. We are talking about mechanical benefits to features not real world. Real world I can play MOST brass instruments to varying degrees. And a little piano. Yes the "skill set" is different, but they all make music. I can play the same song regardless of which brass instrument I pick up. It will sound a little different because of tembre, but it will still be the same song.
If DnD were a reality simulator there would be a million skills. It isn't.
There is a mechanical difference between artisan tool skills in the form of what you can make and do. There is not with musical instruments.
This is kind of exactly my point. Originally in 5e is the case and it is fine.
With the new rules glossary, grappling is saves and fighting, swimming is movement, climbing is movement. Even if you have no climb or swim speed, climbing or swimming in difficult terrain just costs you more movement.
Balance from acrobatics has largely been wrapped into dex and strength saves.
There isn't much left for either of these skills to do. It is a slow chip away, but there is a point when you don't have much of a stone left to chip at.
I recognize that DnD is fantasy extracted from reality. I’m happy you play multiple instruments even if it leaves me confused why you you don’t see the need to keep the mechanical differences between instruments but that is my problem not yours - no need to try to explain- I just can’t see having only one skill: play instrument, I could maybe accept grouping them. - horns, percussion, woodwinds, strings with bows, strings without bows, or something similar but to me that’s like lumping French, Spanish, Italian and Portuguese into a single “ Romance languages” group and saying if you can speak one then you can speak all of them.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.