After just a read through, I like a lot of the content in this UA. I especially like Goliath being able to pick a giant heritage other than Stone Giant. Cleric looks really cool but I will have to do some playtesting to really compare it to what came before. Moving subclass to 3rd level isn't all that surprising to me.
I'll have to see them in play, they have some solid abilities. Not sure if its too good, not good enough etc.
I feel the same.
The one thing that stuck with me that I didn't really like was picking a second Holy Order at level 9. I would much rather see a buff to the Holy Order you choose at 2nd level.
Thematically I'd prefer that, but the heavy armor option was the mechanical winner by a landslide for most tables i expect so they probably didn't want to lock the other two options out. Thaumaturge maybe as other sub classes come out and better channel divinities maybe, but scholar woo you are as good as a wizard in two intelligence skills. Just give them access to heavy armor from the get go, and let them pick from 3 holy orders at level 2 that seem more balanced. Then have the level 9 be a nice holy order upgrade.
Protector and Thaumaturge both fit well with the way I tend to play clerics so I could see myself happy with either, but the Scholar was not very interesting to me.
I could see a character I could have fun with on any of the options, but I know heavy armor is technically better than scholar.
White room, sure heavy armor is better. But that can change based on party composition and campaign style. If it’s a cleric with a bunch of fighters, a couple skill proficiencies might be more useful than another heavy armor wearer. Or in a low combat campaign you probably get more mileage from the skills. And if heavy armor keeps the str minimums, you might not be able to wear it anyway and just stick to medium.
Side benefit, it gives the option of finally fixing the issue of clerics not being good at religion.
I don't know if increasing it to 6 creatures and it lasting until used up or a long rest is worth it compared to the original. Maybe it was changed to avoid it stacking with Armor of Agathys or other THP methods. But I don't care for the change. It was a unique spell and now it's not.
Overall, I don't there is too much surprising or exciting for this particular play test. Breath weapon still kind of sucks, and I think Ardling is worse now than it was, I really would have liked to at least keep the first level spell from the divine thing with ardling.
Aid is worse, Banishment is worse but I am split on that change, Guidance is worse than it was in the last play test, resistance may be too strong, prayer of healing is also really cool and i like it. Spiritual weapon needs concentration now, and that honestly makes sense to me.
These epic boons seem a bit better than some of the previous ones. Fate seems super good as a once per initiative, short rest or long rest so lots of uses out of it. Spell recall is kind of boring, it is basically worse than 1 more 5th level spell slot. True sight being limited to priest instead of priest and expert kind of sucks.
Doesn't anyone notice that the Prayer of healing gives u short rest of 10 minutes? Does speed run short rest? Fast food short rest?
Mandatory Spell.
PRAYER OF HEALING [SPELL] Here's a new version of the Prayer of Healing Spell.
PRAYER OF HEALING 2nd-Level Abjuration Spell (Divine)
Casting Time: 10 minutes Range: 30 feet
Component: V
Duration: Instantaneous
You utter an extended prayer of restoration. Choose a number of willing creatures equal to your Spellcasting Ability Modifier (minimum of 1). Each of those creatures who remains within range for the Spell's entire casting gains the benefits of a Short Rest and also regains 2d8 Hit Points, and a creature can't be affected by this Spell again until that creature finishes a Long Rest.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this Spell using a Spell Slot of 3rd level or higher, the healing increases by 1d8 for each slot above 2nd.
I love all the Cleric changes. It feels fun without even looking at the spells.
I wonder if they need to clarify that the damage done by Smite Undead does not break the turning effect. Unless it's intended that it does so. As written, it seems to be applied after the dazed effect and therefore breaks it...
Still not a fan of the Ardling. It works neither as a beast race nor as an angelic race, it's clearly inspired by Egyptian mythology but uses a name inspired by nordic languages. WotC just needs to pick one flavour and lean into it. If they aren't removing Aasimar just put them into the PHB as the complement of tieflings with a hefty nerf, if they aren't keeping Aasimar make the Ardling full angelic without any animal association.
Sad but not surprised to see Channel Divinity move to ptplr rather than SR, coupled with the changes to Prayer of Healing I'm so confused what WotC's plan is for SRs...
I wonder if they need to clarify that the damage done by Smite Undead does not break the turning effect. Unless it's intended that it does so. As written, it seems to be applied after the dazed effect and therefore breaks it...
5TH LEVEL: SMITE UNDEAD You can cause your Turn Undead feature to smite the undying; whenever you use Turn Undead, you can roll a number of d8s equal to your Proficiency Bonus and add the rolls together. Each Undead that fails its Saving Throw against that use of Turn Undead takes Radiant Damage equal to the roll’s total.
Looks to me like you would get both effects. You would damage the Undead AND add the Dazed Condition. Of course it needs to be clarified and flatly say that the damage happens and THEN the Dazed Condition happens.
no one notice that Prayer of healing give u short rest effects in 10 minutes now? speed run short rest ? Fast food short rest?
Mandatory Spell.
Love all the Cleric changes it feels fun without even looking at the spells.
I'm not so sure about this change personally; I don't mind the idea of a spell that can trigger a faster short rest (I have catnap on my bard), but it feels a lot like a poor substitute to solving the real mechanical problem of groups/DMs that don't handle short rests well, or more specifically don't take as many as the game is intended to have.
Of course we don't know if they have anything planned to fix that somehow, like a DMG optional rule for playing without any short rests at all.
There are a couple of weird spell changes; they still seem determined to turn guidance into a reaction, but it's already a really good cantrip as an action requiring concentration, as a reaction (that's only spent on a failure) it will become another mandatory choice.
The changes to Aid and Barkskin also feel very similar like they're making them basically the same spell for some reason; do we really need three multi-target low temporary HP spells alongside heroism? I'd rather see something more interesting like barkskin also acting like camouflage so it'd be be a good ambush spell or something.
I'm a fan of the cleric changes in general though, need some time to digest them more fully.
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I haven’t had a chance to read the whole thing, please clarify what you mean.
Life cleric healing bonus only applies on the turn you cast the spell, so it doesn't boost goodberry (or other delayed healing effects, such as healing spirit).
I haven’t had a chance to read the whole thing, please clarify what you mean.
Life cleric healing bonus only applies on the turn you cast the spell, so it doesn't boost goodberry (or other delayed healing effects, such as healing spirit).
Ahh. Thank you. As a DM I ruled that didn’t apply to goodberries at all anyway, so for me it’s a null change as I’ll continue to rule it doesn’t apply to goodberries at all. The spell makes berries, it doesn’t heal anything. The berries may heal, the spell not so much. 🤷♂️
So now that Spiritual Weapon requires concentration how badly do you think this will effect the results of the survey?
Well it sucks as now it makes the melee build clerics harder to pull off. It just seems like they are taking the fun out of some builds by adding more restrictions. I just wish they scraped Ardlings. They just don't belong to any setting except for an Egyptian themed one.
Cleric: I think most of the changes are fine. I like the use of Holy Order. I like Smite Undead as a way to likely still destroy low CR undead while still being a flat bonus to Turn Undead against higher CR undead (at least, those lacking Turn Immunity). Not sure yet how I feel about the # of prepared spells being tied to your spell slots. It might make things more intuitive for new players, but does restrict customization.
Ardlings: Still not a fan of the "generic" beast race when there are so many existing specific beast races and a few that can fill the role of a semi-humanoid one (like Shifter). At this point I will still be asking them to consider making the Aasimar the PHB upper-plane species.
Aid: Dislike this change. I do feel that the base version of Aid can sometimes be awkward to keep track of (making sure everyone in the party remembers their HP max increased and remembers to remove it when the spell ends), but temp HP just feels bad with so many other sources of it.
Banishment: Giving the target a save to end the spell at the end of each of its turns makes this spell less effective and makes it highly unlikely you will ever actually banish a creature back to its home plane. If they want to go the route of the creature getting a save every turn, imo they should either remove concentration from the spell or make it a bit stronger. To the latter end, maybe something like "any creature who fails all their saves for a minute are banished to another plane and creatures who are not on their native plane have disadvantage on their saving throws." Also, if used in tandem with the 5e Arcana Domain cleric, it makes that subclass' CD even weaker.
Spiritual Weapon: On the fence about this one. I do feel like the original version is a bit powerful since it basically gives any Cleric a bonus action attack with out much more payup than a spell slot, but making it compete with other spells for Concentration does feel bad. I suppose one thing to consider is that with the new way they are doing spell lists more than just the cleric class may have access to Spiritual Weapon, so it has to be balanced on its use with other classes as well.
Movement Rules: Dislike that they have not changed the rules to allow you to mix special movement speeds.
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Confirmed that all classes are picking a subclass at 3rd level.
Edit: RIP 1 level Hexblade dips.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
White room, sure heavy armor is better. But that can change based on party composition and campaign style. If it’s a cleric with a bunch of fighters, a couple skill proficiencies might be more useful than another heavy armor wearer. Or in a low combat campaign you probably get more mileage from the skills. And if heavy armor keeps the str minimums, you might not be able to wear it anyway and just stick to medium.
Side benefit, it gives the option of finally fixing the issue of clerics not being good at religion.
I don't know if increasing it to 6 creatures and it lasting until used up or a long rest is worth it compared to the original. Maybe it was changed to avoid it stacking with Armor of Agathys or other THP methods. But I don't care for the change. It was a unique spell and now it's not.
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I am a fan of the removal of Super Berries.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Overall, I don't there is too much surprising or exciting for this particular play test. Breath weapon still kind of sucks, and I think Ardling is worse now than it was, I really would have liked to at least keep the first level spell from the divine thing with ardling.
Aid is worse, Banishment is worse but I am split on that change, Guidance is worse than it was in the last play test, resistance may be too strong, prayer of healing is also really cool and i like it. Spiritual weapon needs concentration now, and that honestly makes sense to me.
These epic boons seem a bit better than some of the previous ones. Fate seems super good as a once per initiative, short rest or long rest so lots of uses out of it. Spell recall is kind of boring, it is basically worse than 1 more 5th level spell slot. True sight being limited to priest instead of priest and expert kind of sucks.
Doesn't anyone notice that the Prayer of healing gives u short rest of 10 minutes? Does speed run short rest? Fast food short rest?
Mandatory Spell.
PRAYER OF HEALING [SPELL] Here's a new version of the Prayer of Healing Spell.
PRAYER OF HEALING 2nd-Level Abjuration Spell (Divine)
Casting Time: 10 minutes Range: 30 feet
Component: V
Duration: Instantaneous
You utter an extended prayer of restoration. Choose a number of willing creatures equal to your Spellcasting Ability Modifier (minimum of 1). Each of those creatures who remains within range for the Spell's entire casting gains the benefits of a Short Rest and also regains 2d8 Hit Points, and a creature can't be affected by this Spell again until that creature finishes a Long Rest.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this Spell using a Spell Slot of 3rd level or higher, the healing increases by 1d8 for each slot above 2nd.
I love all the Cleric changes. It feels fun without even looking at the spells.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
I wonder if they need to clarify that the damage done by Smite Undead does not break the turning effect. Unless it's intended that it does so. As written, it seems to be applied after the dazed effect and therefore breaks it...
Personally I am a fan of this change.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Still not a fan of the Ardling. It works neither as a beast race nor as an angelic race, it's clearly inspired by Egyptian mythology but uses a name inspired by nordic languages. WotC just needs to pick one flavour and lean into it. If they aren't removing Aasimar just put them into the PHB as the complement of tieflings with a hefty nerf, if they aren't keeping Aasimar make the Ardling full angelic without any animal association.
Sad but not surprised to see Channel Divinity move to ptplr rather than SR, coupled with the changes to Prayer of Healing I'm so confused what WotC's plan is for SRs...
Looks to me like you would get both effects. You would damage the Undead AND add the Dazed Condition. Of course it needs to be clarified and flatly say that the damage happens and THEN the Dazed Condition happens.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Goliath is going into the PHB it seems
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
I'm not so sure about this change personally; I don't mind the idea of a spell that can trigger a faster short rest (I have catnap on my bard), but it feels a lot like a poor substitute to solving the real mechanical problem of groups/DMs that don't handle short rests well, or more specifically don't take as many as the game is intended to have.
Of course we don't know if they have anything planned to fix that somehow, like a DMG optional rule for playing without any short rests at all.
There are a couple of weird spell changes; they still seem determined to turn guidance into a reaction, but it's already a really good cantrip as an action requiring concentration, as a reaction (that's only spent on a failure) it will become another mandatory choice.
The changes to Aid and Barkskin also feel very similar like they're making them basically the same spell for some reason; do we really need three multi-target low temporary HP spells alongside heroism? I'd rather see something more interesting like barkskin also acting like camouflage so it'd be be a good ambush spell or something.
I'm a fan of the cleric changes in general though, need some time to digest them more fully.
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I haven’t had a chance to read the whole thing, please clarify what you mean.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
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Content Troubleshooting
Life cleric healing bonus only applies on the turn you cast the spell, so it doesn't boost goodberry (or other delayed healing effects, such as healing spirit).
Huh. They decided to change how Invisibility interacts with exotic senses. They added
They don't seem to have done the same for blinded, which isn't mentioned in this at all.
Ahh. Thank you. As a DM I ruled that didn’t apply to goodberries at all anyway, so for me it’s a null change as I’ll continue to rule it doesn’t apply to goodberries at all. The spell makes berries, it doesn’t heal anything. The berries may heal, the spell not so much. 🤷♂️
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Well it sucks as now it makes the melee build clerics harder to pull off. It just seems like they are taking the fun out of some builds by adding more restrictions. I just wish they scraped Ardlings. They just don't belong to any setting except for an Egyptian themed one.
Here are some of my thoughts:
Cleric: I think most of the changes are fine. I like the use of Holy Order. I like Smite Undead as a way to likely still destroy low CR undead while still being a flat bonus to Turn Undead against higher CR undead (at least, those lacking Turn Immunity). Not sure yet how I feel about the # of prepared spells being tied to your spell slots. It might make things more intuitive for new players, but does restrict customization.
Ardlings: Still not a fan of the "generic" beast race when there are so many existing specific beast races and a few that can fill the role of a semi-humanoid one (like Shifter). At this point I will still be asking them to consider making the Aasimar the PHB upper-plane species.
Aid: Dislike this change. I do feel that the base version of Aid can sometimes be awkward to keep track of (making sure everyone in the party remembers their HP max increased and remembers to remove it when the spell ends), but temp HP just feels bad with so many other sources of it.
Banishment: Giving the target a save to end the spell at the end of each of its turns makes this spell less effective and makes it highly unlikely you will ever actually banish a creature back to its home plane. If they want to go the route of the creature getting a save every turn, imo they should either remove concentration from the spell or make it a bit stronger. To the latter end, maybe something like "any creature who fails all their saves for a minute are banished to another plane and creatures who are not on their native plane have disadvantage on their saving throws." Also, if used in tandem with the 5e Arcana Domain cleric, it makes that subclass' CD even weaker.
Spiritual Weapon: On the fence about this one. I do feel like the original version is a bit powerful since it basically gives any Cleric a bonus action attack with out much more payup than a spell slot, but making it compete with other spells for Concentration does feel bad. I suppose one thing to consider is that with the new way they are doing spell lists more than just the cleric class may have access to Spiritual Weapon, so it has to be balanced on its use with other classes as well.
Movement Rules: Dislike that they have not changed the rules to allow you to mix special movement speeds.
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