Anyway, something I"ve noticed is that of the relatively "big" 3rd party producers I follower (easily clearing 750k on their kickstarters etc), I've only seen one individual (not a company) say anything public on this, back when things were "don't sign the NDA" as opposed to "protest the terms sketchily outlined." My guess is many of the ~20 or so studios (as they usually call themselves) did sign the NDA to get into a conversation since many of them do in fact plan on products a year or two out.
It also gets interesting when you have some studios that are clearly successful, but work in multiple systems. Let' take Free League, who does really well, and has recently branched into doing some of their products (Symbarrium and Lord of the Rngs) as 5e products as well. Without thinking hard, I can think of at least five other studios that do this.
Anyway there's an adage "Don't sign a contract until you read it." I think there's also a converse, "Don't walk away from a contract until you read it." I think many of the successful designers with a true livelihood stake in the terms of OGL 1.1 or whatever they call it, fall in the latter camp. Most everyone else just feels the need to say something during the wait and see period.
Hi! We don't have much more info to share other than what has been publicly released. This info is just from a small FAQ for the moderator team based on the existing information for answering community questions. More details will come in early 2023. A specific ETA is not yet available.
What is the OGL?
The Open Gaming License (OGL) is the license agreement that creators can use to publish their TTRPG content that uses the SRD for D&D. What is the SRD? The Systems Reference Document (SRD) is the documentation that includes all rules available for creators to use in their independently published works under the OGL. The fifth edition documentation is SRD 5.1.
Any creators that wants to use the D&D IP in ways not covered by the OGL or fan content policy needs to reach out to Wizards to sign a custom agreement. For instance, Roll20 and Fantasy Grounds have custom agreements with Wizards to use D&D content in their VTTs.
What about minis, dice, or other D&D accessories?
These have never been covered under the OGL. Creators can sell accessories related to their creations as long as it doesn’t use D&D content. For those who do want to use the D&D IP, a custom agreement will need to be in place.
How are you defining a “creator”?
An individual or business that develops a product using the OGL.
What does share-alike content mean?
This is a Creative Commons term that means any non-commercial content released can be built upon by other creators non-commercially. Think of it like an open-source version of D&D.
What does “Creator Product” badge mean?
We don’t have any other details to share other than this would be some visual indication on your product that it is licensed under the OGL.
What does revenue under $750,000 will be royalty free mean?
For creators making more than $750,000 annually, this means they don’t owe royalties on their first $750,000 of revenue. So for instance if a creator was making $800,000 a year, they would only owe royalties on $50,000 of that revenue.
Question about what OGL 1.1 will mean for X/Y/Z issue not spelled out in the statement?
We don’t have any details beyond the statement. But Wizards should have answers for most, if not all creator scenarios under OGL 1.1 in early 2023.
Who are the less than 20 creators making more than $750,000 a year?
We can’t share that information.
Why do I have to report my revenue? When do I need to report my revenue?
We don’t have any details, but this should be answered clearly when OGL 1.1 releases in 2023.
Interesting how they talk about dice and minis; it seems like deliberate fogging of the situation.
Dice have never been covered under the SRD, it's true. It's also irrelevant, because dice are a generic product; unless you do something like include a floating holographic beholder in your die (beholder d20s sound cool, actually) it's not going to use Wizards IP and doesn't need a license.
Minis are a lot the same way. The SRD has never included artwork, so you can't make a mini specifically based off of D&D artwork, but most creatures in the SRD predate D&D by centuries and are not eligible for trademark, so system-agnostic depictions don't need a license.
I think they're just clarifying that those are tangentially related because people brought them up on Twitter and other sites and not "fogging", or whatever tinfoil hattery is going on here.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
Yeah some people, even on this forum, we worried they couldn't continue making DnD adjacent merchandise. I think this was just to address them. Some clarification for the people that needed it.
It's insulting that they think this is good for their bottom line and for the community.
An account with 1post as to date just to say "i feel insulted" really feels like a ghost account trying to "win by numbers" rather than logic. Please actually Present a real hypothesis or statement that can be analyzed or at least discussed.
It's insulting that they think this is good for their bottom line and for the community.
An account with 1post as to date just to say "i feel insulted" really feels like a ghost account trying to "win by numbers" rather than logic. Please actually Present a real hypothesis or statement that can be analyzed or at least discussed.
Seconded.
We don't yet know what the OLG 1.1 will look like. Presumably, participants will be required to opt-in online for each product. The idea being if your product is ludicrously successful, they can take a little off the top. There's also probably some market research going on. Which products resonate with the community, and which creators consistently churn out strong products? This is potentially valuable information. Journey Through the Radiant Citadel is an amazing book. The adventures within are solid, the artwork is gorgeous, and the staff is almost exclusively minority and POC. It's a tremendous addition to the game. And, outside a few pockets, nobody really talks about it. The company isn't adding more content like it. And I think that's a shame, but this is also a business.
The OGL was always a contract, and WotC was always free to determine how you could agree to the license. Going through a few more steps, so the company knows which way the winds are blowing, is probably a good thing.
I have 18 WotC 5e books on my shelf. I own boxes full of Magic cards. If the OGL that was leaked today becomes a reality, then WotC (and Hasbro) will never see another dime from me.
I came back to D&D because of outside creators like Critical Role, The Dungeon Dudes, and Dimension20. D&D owes it's surge in popularity to creators like these. I won't support a company that wants to take a blowtorch to those people's livelyhoods.
The OGL was a truce that was originally intended to end the constant legal battles around creators making clones of d&d. The OGL isn't necessary, more a gentlemens agreement to use it. And that worked out very well for the game.
Now Wizards seems to attempt to revoke the OGL. So they are declaringe the truce void and null. Did they just declare war on the whole community?
I am not talking about the fact that the OGL 1.1 as it was leaked is a new attempt on the GSL and is not an open license. If Wizards wants to put their new stuff under a draconic restrictive license, that's their right. I am talking about the attempt to at the same time "deauthorize" the previous versions of the OGL. That is a shady move.
If that becomes reality, I am jumping ship. No more money for Wizards by buying products from them and no content for D&D from my side as a creator.
The main hope is they got enough crap from the NDA people they released it to, that they backpedaled significantly. Reality is i am expecting some revision from that point due to that, if its enough to satisfy people who knows.
Utterly depressing. Revoking the existing OGL is just a mean hearted move, and I'd be curious whether it would stand up in court if anyone had the funds to challenge it...
Utterly depressing. Revoking the existing OGL is just a mean hearted move, and I'd be curious whether it would stand up in court if anyone had the funds to challenge it...
Hard to say, they way its worded it can be revoked but my understanding is they did make some statement that they wouldn't so that maybe could provide some defense. IP law isn't my thing, so I really don't know.
The thing is courts move slow, so even if people fight it, you'd be looking at D&D 7e by the time it was resolved. And it would be crazy expensive to fight, and unlike Hasbro most wont have the money to do so.
Can I just throw in I’m really happy we’re still seemingly allowed to discuss it here; especially after seeing screen caps of moderation on the Discord cutting it off while saying that discussion of the documents being Fake or Real are both in violation of the rules there.
Further more, right now Can you imagine what PR and Community Management is probably going through right now. The meetings with the execs who drew up this plan sitting at a table while some veteran of the company who is on the public facing design team sighs at them and says “I told you so,” in Corporate Heirarchies Jargon.
Are they going to double down? Are they seeking aid from a crisis management firm? Are we being watched right now in this thread as a point of concern over the discourse as they sit in those emergency meetings to be catered by Panera? G-d above its absolutely delicious think about. To say nothing about the public facing members of the team not being allowed to say anything until the official message and stance is hashed out much like what happened with Spelljammer. As a community angrily prepares to tear itself away from a Brand Loyalty. As some prepare spite products. What a time to be alive.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
@gamephantomdm on twitter twitch.tv/gamephantomdm for me and some friends streaming D&D Wishing for the halcyon days of the WoTC D&D Board and hoping the DnDBeyond Forums can fill the hole in my heart left from the move to Gleemax and then dashing the lot of it for purely social media interaction.
It is all but certain that some people in the company are monitoring the discussion, including this thread. I wouldn't be surprised if the "revoking 5e OGL" clause got put in there partly because of all the talk about creators simply continuing to develop for 5e under OGL 1.0 and ignoring this new version, which is very much something WotC does not want since their business plan for the next several years is going to be built on updating and releasing the same content we have for 5e but for D&D One. Plus players and DMs sticking to 5e would be a nail in the coffin of their VTT which looks like it cost them a fortune to develop and I suspect is completely tied to One D&D and will not support 5e content.
If the OG OGL is discontinued I'll won't be buying any further WotC products. I'll advocate to my gaming circle that we need to find a different system. I was excited about the Planescape book, but I'll forgo it.
I wouldn't be surprised if the "revoking 5e OGL" clause got put in there partly because of all the talk about creators simply continuing to develop for 5e under OGL 1.0 and ignoring this new version, which is very much something WotC does not want.
It's a pretty obvious loophole, doesn't really need monitoring forum chatter to figure it out.
I just hope WoTC has someone reading their own forum here. If you haven't seen the twitter feed on this, go check it out. I have spent a pretty good amount of money here on DnDBeyond and promoted the hell out this site because it seemed like a great idea. I'm also a massive user of Foundry VTT which if I'm understanding the OGL stuff correctly is one of many third party entities that are being directly impacted by this potential course of action by WoTC.
So for the record WoTC. I will drop you like the steaming hot greedy piece dung that you are if you so much as think about releasing that OGL. Seriously even if this works because there's enough mindless new consumers out there for your to hock your ill gotten wears to, I will be done with this company and anything it creates. I am so god damn sick and tired of corporate greed. I don't even have the patience or energy to put this in more thoughtful or eloquent words. I just don't care. This is one of so many examples of companies completely favoring money over customer stewardship and social fairness and equality. In other words learn to ******* share you greedy little shits!
I don't want fancy websites with all the content written by the same talentless writers. I don't want half assed blockbuster movies with the latest A-list actor looking for a pay day. I don't want your toys, video games and branded vomit every where. I want heart, community, fun, laughter, thoughtfulness, and genuine humanity. In short, I don't want this DnDBeyond. I will cancel this account and relinquish all my paid content and all the wonderful quality of life improvements this site brings to the game if you force me to only use this site. And I will encourage anyone I know who uses this to do the same. I've never boycotted anything in my life, so maybe it's about time. What better place to start then with something I truly truly enjoy.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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Anyway, something I"ve noticed is that of the relatively "big" 3rd party producers I follower (easily clearing 750k on their kickstarters etc), I've only seen one individual (not a company) say anything public on this, back when things were "don't sign the NDA" as opposed to "protest the terms sketchily outlined." My guess is many of the ~20 or so studios (as they usually call themselves) did sign the NDA to get into a conversation since many of them do in fact plan on products a year or two out.
It also gets interesting when you have some studios that are clearly successful, but work in multiple systems. Let' take Free League, who does really well, and has recently branched into doing some of their products (Symbarrium and Lord of the Rngs) as 5e products as well. Without thinking hard, I can think of at least five other studios that do this.
Anyway there's an adage "Don't sign a contract until you read it." I think there's also a converse, "Don't walk away from a contract until you read it." I think many of the successful designers with a true livelihood stake in the terms of OGL 1.1 or whatever they call it, fall in the latter camp. Most everyone else just feels the need to say something during the wait and see period.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Just received new info from one of the Devs:
Hi! We don't have much more info to share other than what has been publicly released. This info is just from a small FAQ for the moderator team based on the existing information for answering community questions. More details will come in early 2023. A specific ETA is not yet available.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Interesting how they talk about dice and minis; it seems like deliberate fogging of the situation.
Dice have never been covered under the SRD, it's true. It's also irrelevant, because dice are a generic product; unless you do something like include a floating holographic beholder in your die (beholder d20s sound cool, actually) it's not going to use Wizards IP and doesn't need a license.
Minis are a lot the same way. The SRD has never included artwork, so you can't make a mini specifically based off of D&D artwork, but most creatures in the SRD predate D&D by centuries and are not eligible for trademark, so system-agnostic depictions don't need a license.
Dice CAN be made with official imagery.
Likewise, Minis are sometimes sold as 3pp.
I think they're just clarifying that those are tangentially related because people brought them up on Twitter and other sites and not "fogging", or whatever tinfoil hattery is going on here.
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
Yeah some people, even on this forum, we worried they couldn't continue making DnD adjacent merchandise. I think this was just to address them. Some clarification for the people that needed it.
It's insulting that they think this is good for their bottom line and for the community.
An account with 1post as to date just to say "i feel insulted" really feels like a ghost account trying to "win by numbers" rather than logic. Please actually Present a real hypothesis or statement that can be analyzed or at least discussed.
Seconded.
We don't yet know what the OLG 1.1 will look like. Presumably, participants will be required to opt-in online for each product. The idea being if your product is ludicrously successful, they can take a little off the top. There's also probably some market research going on. Which products resonate with the community, and which creators consistently churn out strong products? This is potentially valuable information. Journey Through the Radiant Citadel is an amazing book. The adventures within are solid, the artwork is gorgeous, and the staff is almost exclusively minority and POC. It's a tremendous addition to the game. And, outside a few pockets, nobody really talks about it. The company isn't adding more content like it. And I think that's a shame, but this is also a business.
The OGL was always a contract, and WotC was always free to determine how you could agree to the license. Going through a few more steps, so the company knows which way the winds are blowing, is probably a good thing.
https://www.patreon.com/posts/76837590?utm_campaign=postshare_creator&fbclid=PAAaZC_mv8BaPZ_A1fxbTTS13Qh3nI_mwxztUOVlkgcB1AHUjUAYRwmsAyvAI
.
I have 18 WotC 5e books on my shelf. I own boxes full of Magic cards. If the OGL that was leaked today becomes a reality, then WotC (and Hasbro) will never see another dime from me.
I came back to D&D because of outside creators like Critical Role, The Dungeon Dudes, and Dimension20. D&D owes it's surge in popularity to creators like these. I won't support a company that wants to take a blowtorch to those people's livelyhoods.
The OGL was a truce that was originally intended to end the constant legal battles around creators making clones of d&d. The OGL isn't necessary, more a gentlemens agreement to use it. And that worked out very well for the game.
Now Wizards seems to attempt to revoke the OGL.
So they are declaringe the truce void and null.
Did they just declare war on the whole community?
I am not talking about the fact that the OGL 1.1 as it was leaked is a new attempt on the GSL and is not an open license. If Wizards wants to put their new stuff under a draconic restrictive license, that's their right. I am talking about the attempt to at the same time "deauthorize" the previous versions of the OGL. That is a shady move.
If that becomes reality, I am jumping ship. No more money for Wizards by buying products from them and no content for D&D from my side as a creator.
The main hope is they got enough crap from the NDA people they released it to, that they backpedaled significantly. Reality is i am expecting some revision from that point due to that, if its enough to satisfy people who knows.
Utterly depressing. Revoking the existing OGL is just a mean hearted move, and I'd be curious whether it would stand up in court if anyone had the funds to challenge it...
Hard to say, they way its worded it can be revoked but my understanding is they did make some statement that they wouldn't so that maybe could provide some defense. IP law isn't my thing, so I really don't know.
The thing is courts move slow, so even if people fight it, you'd be looking at D&D 7e by the time it was resolved. And it would be crazy expensive to fight, and unlike Hasbro most wont have the money to do so.
Can I just throw in I’m really happy we’re still seemingly allowed to discuss it here; especially after seeing screen caps of moderation on the Discord cutting it off while saying that discussion of the documents being Fake or Real are both in violation of the rules there.
Further more, right now Can you imagine what PR and Community Management is probably going through right now. The meetings with the execs who drew up this plan sitting at a table while some veteran of the company who is on the public facing design team sighs at them and says “I told you so,” in Corporate Heirarchies Jargon.
Are they going to double down? Are they seeking aid from a crisis management firm? Are we being watched right now in this thread as a point of concern over the discourse as they sit in those emergency meetings to be catered by Panera? G-d above its absolutely delicious think about. To say nothing about the public facing members of the team not being allowed to say anything until the official message and stance is hashed out much like what happened with Spelljammer. As a community angrily prepares to tear itself away from a Brand Loyalty. As some prepare spite products. What a time to be alive.
@gamephantomdm on twitter
twitch.tv/gamephantomdm for me and some friends streaming D&D
Wishing for the halcyon days of the WoTC D&D Board and hoping the DnDBeyond Forums can fill the hole in my heart left from the move to Gleemax and then dashing the lot of it for purely social media interaction.
It is all but certain that some people in the company are monitoring the discussion, including this thread. I wouldn't be surprised if the "revoking 5e OGL" clause got put in there partly because of all the talk about creators simply continuing to develop for 5e under OGL 1.0 and ignoring this new version, which is very much something WotC does not want since their business plan for the next several years is going to be built on updating and releasing the same content we have for 5e but for D&D One. Plus players and DMs sticking to 5e would be a nail in the coffin of their VTT which looks like it cost them a fortune to develop and I suspect is completely tied to One D&D and will not support 5e content.
If the OG OGL is discontinued I'll won't be buying any further WotC products. I'll advocate to my gaming circle that we need to find a different system. I was excited about the Planescape book, but I'll forgo it.
It's a pretty obvious loophole, doesn't really need monitoring forum chatter to figure it out.
I just hope WoTC has someone reading their own forum here. If you haven't seen the twitter feed on this, go check it out. I have spent a pretty good amount of money here on DnDBeyond and promoted the hell out this site because it seemed like a great idea. I'm also a massive user of Foundry VTT which if I'm understanding the OGL stuff correctly is one of many third party entities that are being directly impacted by this potential course of action by WoTC.
So for the record WoTC. I will drop you like the steaming hot greedy piece dung that you are if you so much as think about releasing that OGL. Seriously even if this works because there's enough mindless new consumers out there for your to hock your ill gotten wears to, I will be done with this company and anything it creates. I am so god damn sick and tired of corporate greed. I don't even have the patience or energy to put this in more thoughtful or eloquent words. I just don't care. This is one of so many examples of companies completely favoring money over customer stewardship and social fairness and equality. In other words learn to ******* share you greedy little shits!
I don't want fancy websites with all the content written by the same talentless writers. I don't want half assed blockbuster movies with the latest A-list actor looking for a pay day. I don't want your toys, video games and branded vomit every where. I want heart, community, fun, laughter, thoughtfulness, and genuine humanity. In short, I don't want this DnDBeyond. I will cancel this account and relinquish all my paid content and all the wonderful quality of life improvements this site brings to the game if you force me to only use this site. And I will encourage anyone I know who uses this to do the same. I've never boycotted anything in my life, so maybe it's about time. What better place to start then with something I truly truly enjoy.