Yeah, I’m looking at it now and it does make sense. Since the wild shaped Druid has a strength, constitution and dexterity equal to its wisdom the attack roll is the same and rather than damage it can be used to shove or grapple. So that’s good. And I hadn’t noticed the top bit of combat wild shape that says ‘while transformed’ so no flurry of blows in humanoid form.
of course the first and second level wild shaped Druid is still inferior to a Druid with a stick.
Quite the reverse on the Quick Attack, actually. The "while transformed" bit is just flavor text (if it weren't then you wouldn't be able to use Swift Transformation in any useful capacity), and you lose all class features while Wild Shaped, so you can only use the BA Unarmed Strike while humanoid. It's probably just an oversight in the writing, but still.
I’m not sure what you mean. If you want to use wildshape to transform as a bonus action then you can’t unarmed strike as a BA on that turn. But subsequent turns while in Land, Sea, Air form you can BA unarmed strike. If you are in your humanoid form you cannot using these rules.
I must not be understanding what you meant. Sorry it’s early
Look at the actual text of the feature. Nothing says that you can only use it while in Wild Shape, nor does anything say that you can use it while Wild Shaped at all. Class features do not carry over into Wild Shape unless they specifically say that they affect how Wild Shape works. Nothing in the feature says that you can't use it while humanoid, either. So you can't use it while Wild Shaped, but you can use it while humanoid.
It is literally under the Combat Wildshape feature. It is not a separate feature. But part of Combat Wildshape. I can see how you can read it that way, but if it wasn’t what you could do when wildshaped it would be under a different heading. Could definitely need better wording for clarification.
Yes, it is part of the Combat Wild Shape feature. Combat Wild Shape is the name of the feature it is in, and the feature it is in is named Combat Wild Shape. The thing is, the name of the feature is irrelevant regarding RAW.
Your argument would have merit IMO if you were saying hey I think they should reword this to be clear as the other features under it mention wild shape under them. But instead you are trying to argue during a playtest document that the probable RAI doesn't matter and going to go with a RAW instead for how it works. RAW in the final document may have some merit for a balance argument. But in a play test, it should just be used to nitpick the writing to make it clearer. And once clear make the balance argument. Or at the least say if the intent is to let you use it even in your normal form it would mean X, if only while wild shaped it means Y.
When did I say anything other than that? Something from the text you just quoted: "It's probably just an oversight in the writing."
I apologize I did not read far enough up the quote chain, the last 2 of yours did not give off that vibe.
Very difficult to fit in the feedback for this one! With only a single 200 word box for the entire Druid class I had to get a lot less verbose than I normally am, and even so I still basically filled the final 500 word box with extra stuff (but had to repeat some as I'm not sure if that box is reviewed by the same person or not, or if they focus on sections).
It seems like they were already getting the memo that people aren't happy with the Druid updats (though they should have expected that before releasing the UA, it's pretty obvious it wouldn't go down well), and I expect the feedback is going to overwhelmingly reinforce that.
Does make me wonder what kind of state the Druid will be in by release time though, as the rate they're going with the UA they'd have to re-release the updated Druid in another playtest. I guess there's no reason they can't, because we really need to know what they're doing on this one IMO.
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Very difficult to fit in the feedback for this one! With only a single 200 word box for the entire Druid class I had to get a lot less verbose than I normally am, and even so I still basically filled the final 500 word box with extra stuff (but had to repeat some as I'm not sure if that box is reviewed by the same person or not, or if they focus on sections).
It seems like they were already getting the memo that people aren't happy with the Druid updats (though they should have expected that before releasing the UA, it's pretty obvious it wouldn't go down well), and I expect the feedback is going to overwhelmingly reinforce that.
Does make me wonder what kind of state the Druid will be in by release time though, as the rate they're going with the UA they'd have to re-release the updated Druid in another playtest. I guess there's no reason they can't, because we really need to know what they're doing on this one IMO.
I do wonder if they knew that this take on the Druid wouldn't be popular before publishing, but decided to toss it out there just to see how serious the backlash ends up being. Sort of a litmus test to see if they scaled it back THAT much, would it even pass at all?
I also don't think they'll necessarily need to reprint the entire Druid class... the complaints seem to stem mostly from Wildshape, so if they just printed an update to Wildshape specifically they probably wouldn't have to worry about it.
Very difficult to fit in the feedback for this one! With only a single 200 word box for the entire Druid class I had to get a lot less verbose than I normally am, and even so I still basically filled the final 500 word box with extra stuff (but had to repeat some as I'm not sure if that box is reviewed by the same person or not, or if they focus on sections).
It seems like they were already getting the memo that people aren't happy with the Druid updats (though they should have expected that before releasing the UA, it's pretty obvious it wouldn't go down well), and I expect the feedback is going to overwhelmingly reinforce that.
Does make me wonder what kind of state the Druid will be in by release time though, as the rate they're going with the UA they'd have to re-release the updated Druid in another playtest. I guess there's no reason they can't, because we really need to know what they're doing on this one IMO.
I do wonder if they knew that this take on the Druid wouldn't be popular before publishing, but decided to toss it out there just to see how serious the backlash ends up being. Sort of a litmus test to see if they scaled it back THAT much, would it even pass at all?
I also don't think they'll necessarily need to reprint the entire Druid class... the complaints seem to stem mostly from Wildshape, so if they just printed an update to Wildshape specifically they probably wouldn't have to worry about it.
I do think they would need to do an entire reprint of the class because the complaints are not just about wildshape but also that they focused on wildshape to the exclusion of basically everything else. And I said as much in my feedback. I really hope they get rid of Healing Blossoms and replace it with something that is more thematic to the Druid.
For the Alternating Forms trait, I would like it if the druid could use it to switch from one animal form to another without first having to shift back to their normal form inbetween. So, you could be wildshaped as a fish, jump out of the water and reshape into a bird to fly away, and then reshape again into a deer once you reach land - all without needing to become humanoid again for 6 seconds between each transformation.
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For the Alternating Forms trait, I would like it if the druid could use it to switch from one animal form to another without first having to shift back to their normal form inbetween. So, you could be wildshaped as a fish, jump out of the water and reshape into a bird to fly away, and then reshape again into a deer once you reach land - all without needing to become humanoid again for 6 seconds between each transformation.
i worry about how many reprints we can get since they want majority of the 2024 version to be playtested but reduced how often were getting ua were 1/4 way thru 2023 and only done 1st drafts of half the classes, species seem fine, epic boons still need going thru, rest of spells still need going thu (if there changing) and if they want the dmg or the mm playtested then all that also needs to be released, plus any reprints or reprint of reprints and then time to put it all together. at the current rate id say we have 4 or 5 ua left this year and god knows how many were gonna have in 2024 before release but i cant see there being many due to time needed to put it all together, get the editing and formatting done and stuff
i worry about how many reprints we can get since they want majority of the 2024 version to be playtested but reduced how often were getting ua were 1/4 way thru 2023 and only done 1st drafts of half the classes, species seem fine, epic boons still need going thru, rest of spells still need going thu (if there changing) and if they want the dmg or the mm playtested then all that also needs to be released, plus any reprints or reprint of reprints and then time to put it all together. at the current rate id say we have 4 or 5 ua left this year and god knows how many were gonna have in 2024 before release but i cant see there being many due to time needed to put it all together, get the editing and formatting done and stuff
I doubt we get to playtest everything. They have in house playtesters as well. This large scale community play test helps keep us up to date with coming changes and makes sure that extreme changes like Wild Shape that might be enjoyed by the in house playtesters don’t make the book if they are hated by the community. I think we will get through the classes this year and new spells this year and get bombarded with classes until Summer next year. I’m predicting a fall release for one dnd, but that is completely just a prediction. I think they will want it out by October so people are playing it and ready to buy books for Christmas.
i worry about how many reprints we can get since they want majority of the 2024 version to be playtested but reduced how often were getting ua were 1/4 way thru 2023 and only done 1st drafts of half the classes, species seem fine, epic boons still need going thru, rest of spells still need going thu (if there changing) and if they want the dmg or the mm playtested then all that also needs to be released, plus any reprints or reprint of reprints and then time to put it all together. at the current rate id say we have 4 or 5 ua left this year and god knows how many were gonna have in 2024 before release but i cant see there being many due to time needed to put it all together, get the editing and formatting done and stuff
I doubt we get to playtest everything. They have in house playtesters as well. This large scale community play test helps keep us up to date with coming changes and makes sure that extreme changes like Wild Shape that might be enjoyed by the in house playtesters don’t make the book if they are hated by the community. I think we will get through the classes this year and new spells this year and get bombarded with classes until Summer next year. I’m predicting a fall release for one dnd, but that is completely just a prediction. I think they will want it out by October so people are playing it and ready to buy books for Christmas.
That maybe but im sure when they started the playtest they did say theres gonna be stuff from all 3 books in the playtest maybe thats changed now or im miss remembering
What I don't get from that discussion, is why they think WS has to be one or the other - either templates or all statblocks. Make one standardized scaling template for those who want something simple, AND let druids learn to transform into any beast they have seen below a certain CR using the set of statblocks in the PHB. Then both sides can have their cake.
What I don't get from that discussion, is why they think WS has to be one or the other - either templates or all statblocks.
They seem to have missed out on a significant group of people whose attitude was "templates are fine, but these particular templates are hot garbage".
I don't think they missed that group at all. If they do a curated, scaling list, those will functionally split the difference, being both better templates and not a reversion to diving through the entire MM.
I thought it was conspicuous how they didn’t talk about satisfaction percents with the Druid. I’m guessing that means it was fairly low.
They did though?
"In the feedback to wild shape, there are basically two camps... {those who said} this was their favorite version of wild shape they've ever seen, paired with people who never want to see this version of wild shape in print. And {the second group were} similar to when we think about groups that use feats compared to ones that don't... it was a simple majority, just over the line of 50%."
So at absolute most, I'd say a 40/60 favorability split, and it's probably closer to 45/55 or even closer.
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I apologize I did not read far enough up the quote chain, the last 2 of yours did not give off that vibe.
Survey is out for this one
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Very difficult to fit in the feedback for this one! With only a single 200 word box for the entire Druid class I had to get a lot less verbose than I normally am, and even so I still basically filled the final 500 word box with extra stuff (but had to repeat some as I'm not sure if that box is reviewed by the same person or not, or if they focus on sections).
It seems like they were already getting the memo that people aren't happy with the Druid updats (though they should have expected that before releasing the UA, it's pretty obvious it wouldn't go down well), and I expect the feedback is going to overwhelmingly reinforce that.
Does make me wonder what kind of state the Druid will be in by release time though, as the rate they're going with the UA they'd have to re-release the updated Druid in another playtest. I guess there's no reason they can't, because we really need to know what they're doing on this one IMO.
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I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
I do wonder if they knew that this take on the Druid wouldn't be popular before publishing, but decided to toss it out there just to see how serious the backlash ends up being. Sort of a litmus test to see if they scaled it back THAT much, would it even pass at all?
I also don't think they'll necessarily need to reprint the entire Druid class... the complaints seem to stem mostly from Wildshape, so if they just printed an update to Wildshape specifically they probably wouldn't have to worry about it.
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I do think they would need to do an entire reprint of the class because the complaints are not just about wildshape but also that they focused on wildshape to the exclusion of basically everything else. And I said as much in my feedback. I really hope they get rid of Healing Blossoms and replace it with something that is more thematic to the Druid.
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Survey is open
For the Alternating Forms trait, I would like it if the druid could use it to switch from one animal form to another without first having to shift back to their normal form inbetween. So, you could be wildshaped as a fish, jump out of the water and reshape into a bird to fly away, and then reshape again into a deer once you reach land - all without needing to become humanoid again for 6 seconds between each transformation.
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That would be a cool option.
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i worry about how many reprints we can get since they want majority of the 2024 version to be playtested but reduced how often were getting ua were 1/4 way thru 2023 and only done 1st drafts of half the classes, species seem fine, epic boons still need going thru, rest of spells still need going thu (if there changing) and if they want the dmg or the mm playtested then all that also needs to be released, plus any reprints or reprint of reprints and then time to put it all together. at the current rate id say we have 4 or 5 ua left this year and god knows how many were gonna have in 2024 before release but i cant see there being many due to time needed to put it all together, get the editing and formatting done and stuff
I doubt we get to playtest everything. They have in house playtesters as well. This large scale community play test helps keep us up to date with coming changes and makes sure that extreme changes like Wild Shape that might be enjoyed by the in house playtesters don’t make the book if they are hated by the community. I think we will get through the classes this year and new spells this year and get bombarded with classes until Summer next year. I’m predicting a fall release for one dnd, but that is completely just a prediction. I think they will want it out by October so people are playing it and ready to buy books for Christmas.
That maybe but im sure when they started the playtest they did say theres gonna be stuff from all 3 books in the playtest maybe thats changed now or im miss remembering
Have they released the feedback survey for this yet? Waiting to provide feedback
They did, but the survey closed, so unfortunately, you missed your window.
feedback discussion is up :
https://youtu.be/96uFjfL8CJk
What I don't get from that discussion, is why they think WS has to be one or the other - either templates or all statblocks. Make one standardized scaling template for those who want something simple, AND let druids learn to transform into any beast they have seen below a certain CR using the set of statblocks in the PHB. Then both sides can have their cake.
They seem to have missed out on a significant group of people whose attitude was "templates are fine, but these particular templates are hot garbage".
I don't think they missed that group at all. If they do a curated, scaling list, those will functionally split the difference, being both better templates and not a reversion to diving through the entire MM.
I thought it was conspicuous how they didn’t talk about satisfaction percents with the Druid. I’m guessing that means it was fairly low.
They did though?
"In the feedback to wild shape, there are basically two camps... {those who said} this was their favorite version of wild shape they've ever seen, paired with people who never want to see this version of wild shape in print. And {the second group were} similar to when we think about groups that use feats compared to ones that don't... it was a simple majority, just over the line of 50%."
So at absolute most, I'd say a 40/60 favorability split, and it's probably closer to 45/55 or even closer.