I have to say that having played a straight TWF brute for 11 levels was a pretty much what everyone has been saying (hit hard, kill things, wait for next fight). Then a situation came up where I RPd my way into multiclassing. Long story short, the character needed to learn to chill out and spent some time in a monastary to become a monk. Fast forward a couple levels and he is even more ridiculous in combat (3 attacks per round at 2d6+5 per hit before magic weapon bonuses plus 2 unarmed strikes with FoB for an extra 1d4+1d6+5 each) but the out of combat is suddenly much richer as well. He has to struggle to control his violent tendencies. Honestly I think that brute is great if your DM allows multiclassing. Not to sound like a munchkin or anything, but a lot of people already take a 2 level dip in fighter just for action surge. For another level, you get a permanent d4 bonus to all of your weapon attacks. That adds up quickly over time.
TL:DR
Brute is insane in combat but greatly benefits from multiclassing, if only for RP purposes.
I think some of the brute's offensive might is offset by how mind-numbingly boring the subclass is. Brute was definitely designed to be babby's first fighter.
Agreed. Definitely needs some flare. Even just allowing them to use STR as a modifier for intimidation (possibly persuasion?) would go a long way. I know that's a variable rule, but just making it a class feature would be nice. I could also see dropping the save die to a d4 just for the math of of it 12.5% buff to saves is more balanced than 17.5%.
I really like the archtype but I would make one change. I would turn brute dice into their own dice pool based on Constitution bonus (minimum 1). The pool refreshes at the start of each turn and no more than one dice can be used per roll. You spend these dice on brute force or brutish durability (which now uses the scaled dice not just d6). That gives you choices to make between upping strength, dexterity or constitution first as you level and means if you go full TWF you likely will not have dice left for saves that turn.
Will be testing a brute in a up coming game will be a elf or half will be aiming to get elven accuracy, sharpshooter, rapid reload, dual repeating hand crossbows and will have most likely max dex. throw in archery and close quarters shooter fighting styles and boom 2d6+5+10 bolts that are almost always going to hit even with shrapshooter -5
I plan on playing a Loxodon Brute next. I think of Brute as a less bipolar Barbarian. He's always a little bit angry. No flaming rage just constant cold fury. I don't think that a class or subclass NEEDS out of combat abilities to be fun to RP. I actually really appreciate the fighter class (especially Brute, BM, and Champion) because of the freedom it gives you for roleplay. You don't need to be specialized into a specific mental stat. You can be wise, intelligent, charismatic, stupid, rash or awkward, as long as you have decent Strength or Dexterity.
Absolutely not, the class allows a great way to have a fighter deal damage and take damage, ideal for when your party is more fleshy. My current DM loves throwing dragons at us (and then pulling them out after it gets close to killing us) and the brute class allows my character to stay up and continue dealing damage. Which helps, ya know, when he focused fired your warlock and barbarian while your wizard and rogue ran away.
I posted this in another thread related to the UA January 8, 2018.
Been playing as a Brute for a year now, at level 7, and I think the Brute is quite balanced; it does the Champion's job, but better, more reliably and I think was created to replace the Champion. It fits the thematic quite well; The fighter does what it was meant to do, fight things! It's amazing in combat, but struggles in social interactions and exploring, which is what the Fighter is intended for.
The Brute damage is fine, considering there are other spells and features that increase other classes' damage output like Hex, Hunter's Mark, Smite, etc. It's not stepping on the Barbarian's toes, because the Barbarian is SUPPOSED to be the tank.
Brutish Durability is fine as well, since the Paladin get an Aura scaled with their charisma modifier, and the Monk gets an ability that makes them proficient with all saving throws.
Devastating Critical makes it so that critical attacks have more of an impact, and feel like an actual critical hit, rather than rolling the damage twice, and just yield minimum damage.
If you ever wanted to play a character like Gutts from Berserk, the Brute fills that role perfectly.
Overall, the only thing that I would consider changing is have the Brute Damage restricted to STR based weapons.
I've been playing a dual-wielder Brute for the past few months, and I love it! I'm definitely one of the top characters for DPS in my party. However, I don't overshadow our great weapon fighter Eldritch Knight or our longbow Ranger. (Hunter's Mark is beastly.)
For someone who usually plays "Face" characters, the narrow combat focus of the subclass skills has been an interesting challenge. I have seen some reviewers argue that the abilities are boring, but honestly that's what RP is for. I may not get any text specific buffs to things other than fighting, but that just means I need to get creative in other settings. I don't have to be the best at everything. I just happen to be really, really good in combat. It's like the Champion, but instead of crit-fishing, I hit harder at every opportunity.
I will say, it might behoove the writers to revise Brute die bonuses to only work on melee attacks. Thematically, it doesn't seem like it should apply to ranged ones. The rest of it is working great, though. My DM has not felt the need to nerf the RAW in our gameplay.
I've been playing a dual-wielder Brute for the past few months, and I love it! I'm definitely one of the top characters for DPS in my party. However, I don't overshadow our great weapon fighter Eldritch Knight or our longbow Ranger. (Hunter's Mark is beastly.)
For someone who usually plays "Face" characters, the narrow combat focus of the subclass skills has been an interesting challenge. I have seen some reviewers argue that the abilities are boring, but honestly that's what RP is for. I may not get any text specific buffs to things other than fighting, but that just means I need to get creative in other settings. I don't have to be the best at everything. I just happen to be really, really good in combat. It's like the Champion, but instead of crit-fishing, I hit harder at every opportunity.
I will say, it might behoove the writers to revise Brute die bonuses to only work on melee attacks. Thematically, it doesn't seem like it should apply to ranged ones. The rest of it is working great, though. My DM has not felt the need to nerf the RAW in our gameplay.
I agree that it's a simple subclass. You worry less about using the superiority dice like Battle Master or tracking spell slots like Eldritch Knight. I do agree the brute dice should be for melee only. My only major complaint on the subclass is the somewhat selfish nature of it. Granted this is the case with the Champion as you mention.
For me the biggest fix is for the Brutish Durability. It should be a d4 if it remains as is for death saves. If they remove the death save caveat (Which they should....as of now you have a VERY high chance of getting up) it could remain a d6.
I have a player who is playing a human Brute with Tavern Brawler. The whole backstory was that he was a bouncer turned adventurer. It is true they lack utility but utility has never realy been the fighter's Job. there job is to hit things until they are dead and in a balanced party I am yet to see him outshine anyone because of the the lack of Aoe, extra abilities. I think if the brute is used a s a flavor and not optimized ( Ie pole arm master gwf etc) The class fits in quite well for the old school rough and tumble kind of fighter some people enjoy playing.
As for the d6 or d4 added to saves, it is still a dice roll, the death saving throw bonus is huge however it won't break your game. I think the d6 is fine and it is good for someone in the party to be able to get back up a little more often than 5% of the time.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You haven't played until you have played in a Castle.
I have a player who is playing a human Brute with Tavern Brawler. The whole backstory was that he was a bouncer turned adventurer. It is true they lack utility but utility has never realy been the fighter's Job. there job is to hit things until they are dead and in a balanced party I am yet to see him outshine anyone because of the the lack of Aoe, extra abilities. I think if the brute is used a s a flavor and not optimized ( Ie pole arm master gwf etc) The class fits in quite well for the old school rough and tumble kind of fighter some people enjoy playing.
As for the d6 or d4 added to saves, it is still a dice roll, the death saving throw bonus is huge however it won't break your game. I think the d6 is fine and it is good for someone in the party to be able to get back up a little more often than 5% of the time.
I think it's pretty close to balanced but the brute has a 22.5% chance of getting up with 1 hp on their first death save. They have a 53.5% chance of getting up with 1 hp over three turns. This is significantly higher than the normal 5% chance.
Since I like this kind of math, I compared normal death saves to Brute death saves over 5 rolls. In 5 rolls, a character will either die, stabilize, or heal 1 hp. Left alone to roll saves a normal character has a 40% chance of death, 41% chance to stabilize, and an 18% chance to revive. A Brute has an 8% chance of death, 28% chance to stabilize, and a 63% chance to revive. These numbers are all rounded.
I think the die progessing to this point is fair but getting this right away at 7th seems a bit much.
My group is starting a new campaign and I was originally going to play a bard, but my attribute rolls were so poo that I decided to go with fighter. The Brute archetype fits well with my planned character idea and I would love to try it out and the DM is even thinking about letting me use it. However, I am hesitant to try it if it's just going to be removed anytime soon and I can't find anything that really gives any idea if it's going to stick around or not. I'm not concerned with its status as Unearthed Arcana, the DM will let me use it despite this status, but if it's just going to get straight up removed anytime soon I don't want to use it. Is there any word on the fate of Brute?
I think I am going to make a brutish bard. I like the idea for it, and it gives some fun bonus spellcasting to support combat.
Start Bard then start taking Fighter up to level 3.
Start Fighter to pick up the constitution saving throw, then go bard for support spells then Fighter to level 3. Get Two Weapon Fighting, and start adding on the brute damage die to offhand attacks too. Start alternating between Bard levels and Fighter levels, getting Psychic Blades from College of Whispers for some extra damage potential. Get the Dual Wielding Feat and upgrade the light weapons to something heftier. Take ASI's to max out strength and maybe boost charisma or constitution. A whirling dervish with spells to support themself, Heroism, Sleep, Longstrider, Cure Wounds. Really consistent damage increases.
Brute Bard, does a stomping war dance for his performance.
I hope the Brute becomes a Subclass in an official content, I think it is the fighter you hoped to get with Champion. Plus it truly makes two weapon fighting shine.
Anyone have a suggestion for a good race to do this with? Boost to strength would be handy but not required. Hmmm.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
@Herozero: If you go with variant human, you can start with the Dual Wielder feat and choose your ASI's. It may not have the flavor of the more exotic races, but it gets the job done!
@Herozero: If you go with variant human, you can start with the Dual Wielder feat and choose your ASI's. It may not have the flavor of the more exotic races, but it gets the job done!
That is true, I initially was looking at Githyanki, but now I am leaning towards Dragonborn just for the breath weapon entertainment, or Tiefling (Zariel) for the extra smite spells, or Bugbear for the extra reach and splash of rogue flavor (sneak and 2d6 surprise attack). The Gith would have been for its innate spells to boost engagement and or disengagement (Jump, Misty Step).
I also feel like I would rather have the feat as something to look forward to. Build up, and build up, and slowly gain more damage.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Why Is it that when I'm trying to build a fighter character on D&D Beyond, it gives me the Brute option sometimes, but not all the time? I'm a 4th level Fighter, and it isn't giving me the option. I can pick it on some characters, but not others. Please advise..... Thank you
Are you remembering to toggle on "Playtest Content" when creating the character? Remember, Brute is UA only at the moment, otherwise you shouldn't be able to see it.
I personally made what my DM calls a "Mower of fields" build. Its a Warforged fighter/monk with the Brute subclass for Fighter. His name is Ky'sax, and he literally mows the playing field of monsters away. My DM even made a lv 20 Warforged brute, and he is scared of Ky'sax in battle. At lv 14, Ky'sax has 4 attacks in a turn, 27 AC, +1d6 to all damage if an attack hits, +1d6 to all saves, he had 50 ft of movement so far, and he can reduce ranged attacks by a hot 1d10+4. His feats are Tough (of course), heavy armor master, Sentinel, and Mobile. So, from that, its basically this: he stands there in any fight/duel and waits for anyone to come to him, then slams down 4 attacks in them (8 if he uses Action Surge), then punishes them with Sentinel if they run and reduces their speed to 0 until they move again, and if they try to stay at range, he simply deflects every shot as he walks 50 feet per turn towards them.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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I have to say that having played a straight TWF brute for 11 levels was a pretty much what everyone has been saying (hit hard, kill things, wait for next fight). Then a situation came up where I RPd my way into multiclassing. Long story short, the character needed to learn to chill out and spent some time in a monastary to become a monk. Fast forward a couple levels and he is even more ridiculous in combat (3 attacks per round at 2d6+5 per hit before magic weapon bonuses plus 2 unarmed strikes with FoB for an extra 1d4+1d6+5 each) but the out of combat is suddenly much richer as well. He has to struggle to control his violent tendencies. Honestly I think that brute is great if your DM allows multiclassing. Not to sound like a munchkin or anything, but a lot of people already take a 2 level dip in fighter just for action surge. For another level, you get a permanent d4 bonus to all of your weapon attacks. That adds up quickly over time.
TL:DR
Brute is insane in combat but greatly benefits from multiclassing, if only for RP purposes.
I think some of the brute's offensive might is offset by how mind-numbingly boring the subclass is. Brute was definitely designed to be babby's first fighter.
"The Epic Level Handbook wasn't that bad, guys.
Guys, pls."
Agreed. Definitely needs some flare. Even just allowing them to use STR as a modifier for intimidation (possibly persuasion?) would go a long way. I know that's a variable rule, but just making it a class feature would be nice. I could also see dropping the save die to a d4 just for the math of of it 12.5% buff to saves is more balanced than 17.5%.
I really like the archtype but I would make one change. I would turn brute dice into their own dice pool based on Constitution bonus (minimum 1). The pool refreshes at the start of each turn and no more than one dice can be used per roll. You spend these dice on brute force or brutish durability (which now uses the scaled dice not just d6). That gives you choices to make between upping strength, dexterity or constitution first as you level and means if you go full TWF you likely will not have dice left for saves that turn.
Will be testing a brute in a up coming game will be a elf or half will be aiming to get elven accuracy, sharpshooter, rapid reload, dual repeating hand crossbows and will have most likely max dex. throw in archery and close quarters shooter fighting styles and boom 2d6+5+10 bolts that are almost always going to hit even with shrapshooter -5
I plan on playing a Loxodon Brute next. I think of Brute as a less bipolar Barbarian. He's always a little bit angry. No flaming rage just constant cold fury. I don't think that a class or subclass NEEDS out of combat abilities to be fun to RP. I actually really appreciate the fighter class (especially Brute, BM, and Champion) because of the freedom it gives you for roleplay. You don't need to be specialized into a specific mental stat. You can be wise, intelligent, charismatic, stupid, rash or awkward, as long as you have decent Strength or Dexterity.
Absolutely not, the class allows a great way to have a fighter deal damage and take damage, ideal for when your party is more fleshy. My current DM loves throwing dragons at us (and then pulling them out after it gets close to killing us) and the brute class allows my character to stay up and continue dealing damage. Which helps, ya know, when he focused fired your warlock and barbarian while your wizard and rogue ran away.
I posted this in another thread related to the UA January 8, 2018.
Been playing as a Brute for a year now, at level 7, and I think the Brute is quite balanced; it does the Champion's job, but better, more reliably and I think was created to replace the Champion. It fits the thematic quite well; The fighter does what it was meant to do, fight things! It's amazing in combat, but struggles in social interactions and exploring, which is what the Fighter is intended for.
The Brute damage is fine, considering there are other spells and features that increase other classes' damage output like Hex, Hunter's Mark, Smite, etc. It's not stepping on the Barbarian's toes, because the Barbarian is SUPPOSED to be the tank.
Brutish Durability is fine as well, since the Paladin get an Aura scaled with their charisma modifier, and the Monk gets an ability that makes them proficient with all saving throws.
Devastating Critical makes it so that critical attacks have more of an impact, and feel like an actual critical hit, rather than rolling the damage twice, and just yield minimum damage.
If you ever wanted to play a character like Gutts from Berserk, the Brute fills that role perfectly.
Overall, the only thing that I would consider changing is have the Brute Damage restricted to STR based weapons.
I've been playing a dual-wielder Brute for the past few months, and I love it! I'm definitely one of the top characters for DPS in my party. However, I don't overshadow our great weapon fighter Eldritch Knight or our longbow Ranger. (Hunter's Mark is beastly.)
For someone who usually plays "Face" characters, the narrow combat focus of the subclass skills has been an interesting challenge. I have seen some reviewers argue that the abilities are boring, but honestly that's what RP is for. I may not get any text specific buffs to things other than fighting, but that just means I need to get creative in other settings. I don't have to be the best at everything. I just happen to be really, really good in combat. It's like the Champion, but instead of crit-fishing, I hit harder at every opportunity.
I will say, it might behoove the writers to revise Brute die bonuses to only work on melee attacks. Thematically, it doesn't seem like it should apply to ranged ones. The rest of it is working great, though. My DM has not felt the need to nerf the RAW in our gameplay.
I agree that it's a simple subclass. You worry less about using the superiority dice like Battle Master or tracking spell slots like Eldritch Knight. I do agree the brute dice should be for melee only. My only major complaint on the subclass is the somewhat selfish nature of it. Granted this is the case with the Champion as you mention.
For me the biggest fix is for the Brutish Durability. It should be a d4 if it remains as is for death saves. If they remove the death save caveat (Which they should....as of now you have a VERY high chance of getting up) it could remain a d6.
I have a player who is playing a human Brute with Tavern Brawler. The whole backstory was that he was a bouncer turned adventurer. It is true they lack utility but utility has never realy been the fighter's Job. there job is to hit things until they are dead and in a balanced party I am yet to see him outshine anyone because of the the lack of Aoe, extra abilities. I think if the brute is used a s a flavor and not optimized ( Ie pole arm master gwf etc) The class fits in quite well for the old school rough and tumble kind of fighter some people enjoy playing.
As for the d6 or d4 added to saves, it is still a dice roll, the death saving throw bonus is huge however it won't break your game. I think the d6 is fine and it is good for someone in the party to be able to get back up a little more often than 5% of the time.
You haven't played until you have played in a Castle.
I think it's pretty close to balanced but the brute has a 22.5% chance of getting up with 1 hp on their first death save. They have a 53.5% chance of getting up with 1 hp over three turns. This is significantly higher than the normal 5% chance.
Since I like this kind of math, I compared normal death saves to Brute death saves over 5 rolls. In 5 rolls, a character will either die, stabilize, or heal 1 hp. Left alone to roll saves a normal character has a 40% chance of death, 41% chance to stabilize, and an 18% chance to revive. A Brute has an 8% chance of death, 28% chance to stabilize, and a 63% chance to revive. These numbers are all rounded.
I think the die progessing to this point is fair but getting this right away at 7th seems a bit much.
My group is starting a new campaign and I was originally going to play a bard, but my attribute rolls were so poo that I decided to go with fighter. The Brute archetype fits well with my planned character idea and I would love to try it out and the DM is even thinking about letting me use it. However, I am hesitant to try it if it's just going to be removed anytime soon and I can't find anything that really gives any idea if it's going to stick around or not. I'm not concerned with its status as Unearthed Arcana, the DM will let me use it despite this status, but if it's just going to get straight up removed anytime soon I don't want to use it. Is there any word on the fate of Brute?
I think I am going to make a brutish bard. I like the idea for it, and it gives some fun bonus spellcasting to support combat.
Start Bard then start taking Fighter up to level 3.Start Fighter to pick up the constitution saving throw, then go bard for support spells then Fighter to level 3. Get Two Weapon Fighting, and start adding on the brute damage die to offhand attacks too. Start alternating between Bard levels and Fighter levels, getting Psychic Blades from College of Whispers for some extra damage potential. Get the Dual Wielding Feat and upgrade the light weapons to something heftier. Take ASI's to max out strength and maybe boost charisma or constitution. A whirling dervish with spells to support themself, Heroism, Sleep, Longstrider, Cure Wounds. Really consistent damage increases.
Brute Bard, does a stomping war dance for his performance.
I hope the Brute becomes a Subclass in an official content, I think it is the fighter you hoped to get with Champion. Plus it truly makes two weapon fighting shine.
Anyone have a suggestion for a good race to do this with? Boost to strength would be handy but not required. Hmmm.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
@Herozero: If you go with variant human, you can start with the Dual Wielder feat and choose your ASI's. It may not have the flavor of the more exotic races, but it gets the job done!
That is true, I initially was looking at Githyanki, but now I am leaning towards Dragonborn just for the breath weapon entertainment, or Tiefling (Zariel) for the extra smite spells, or Bugbear for the extra reach and splash of rogue flavor (sneak and 2d6 surprise attack). The Gith would have been for its innate spells to boost engagement and or disengagement (Jump, Misty Step).
I also feel like I would rather have the feat as something to look forward to. Build up, and build up, and slowly gain more damage.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Why Is it that when I'm trying to build a fighter character on D&D Beyond, it gives me the Brute option sometimes, but not all the time? I'm a 4th level Fighter, and it isn't giving me the option. I can pick it on some characters, but not others. Please advise..... Thank you
If you want sugar coating, go buy a dessert....
Are you remembering to toggle on "Playtest Content" when creating the character? Remember, Brute is UA only at the moment, otherwise you shouldn't be able to see it.
I'm an idiot......Thank you so much
If you want sugar coating, go buy a dessert....
I personally made what my DM calls a "Mower of fields" build. Its a Warforged fighter/monk with the Brute subclass for Fighter. His name is Ky'sax, and he literally mows the playing field of monsters away. My DM even made a lv 20 Warforged brute, and he is scared of Ky'sax in battle. At lv 14, Ky'sax has 4 attacks in a turn, 27 AC, +1d6 to all damage if an attack hits, +1d6 to all saves, he had 50 ft of movement so far, and he can reduce ranged attacks by a hot 1d10+4. His feats are Tough (of course), heavy armor master, Sentinel, and Mobile. So, from that, its basically this: he stands there in any fight/duel and waits for anyone to come to him, then slams down 4 attacks in them (8 if he uses Action Surge), then punishes them with Sentinel if they run and reduces their speed to 0 until they move again, and if they try to stay at range, he simply deflects every shot as he walks 50 feet per turn towards them.