Indeed, the Book and Familiar can't be dispelled (but the Blade can be - though since it's a cantrip, you can just whip it out again on your turn.)
That's assuming you haven't chosen a magic weapon as your pact weapon. What if your warlock is using a long sword that's a flame tongue? Right now, it's an hour for the warlock to make the existing magical weapon into the pact weapon.
Nothing about the Pact Weapon spell says the cast time changes when cast on an existing magic weapon.
Edit: I did a stupid. This post is evidence of that. I seem to have only read the "initial thoughts" portion, not the thread being focused on warlock my bad lol
I get that in the vast majority of cases you're casting them to begin your adventuring day, like mage armor, and not in the middle of combat, but the fact that it's even possible to counterspell major class features is absurd
Why?
You can Counter/Dispell literally everything a wizard does. Every last class feature, every last ability, everything a wizard does is counterable/dispellable because the wizard gets actually factually nothing but spells, and nobody seems to give shit one or bat the slightest eye. Monsters having access to Dispel or Counter is very rare and getting rarer, and if you're fighting an archmage then maybe it shouldn't be so unexpected when the enemy archmage manages to muck with your magic.
Ugh, that now makes three classes and a few other features that got shafted ridiculously hard in the playtest. Really not a fan of their new direction. Seriously, Wizards, people can cope with selecting from actual stat blocks rather than using a painfully watered down generic template, give us back the real Pact of the Chain.
For one thing, wizards have a lot more slots than warlocks. It's not an equivalent effect/impact.
Dispelling a wizard's hold monster is annoying. Dispelling a hexblade's weapon is crippling.
It forces the warlock to waste one action if they want to re-cast Pact Weapon. Of course, they can always just Eldritch Blast instead. So, it's a third-level spell that at best eats up a single action, but that's only at best, because the warlock still has a bunch of other stuff they could do with their action instead. So crippling.
For one thing, wizards have a lot more slots than warlocks. It's not an equivalent effect/impact.
Dispelling a wizard's hold monster is annoying. Dispelling a hexblade's weapon is crippling.
Them trading a 3rd-level spell for your cantrip is "crippling?"
It's a cantrip in name only
If you could cast a 3rd-level spell and prevent a sorcerer from using sorcery points, or get rid of a fighter's fighting style/action surge/second wind all in one fell swoop, you'd think it was a pretty good deal
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
For one thing, wizards have a lot more slots than warlocks. It's not an equivalent effect/impact.
Dispelling a wizard's hold monster is annoying. Dispelling a hexblade's weapon is crippling.
It forces the warlock to waste one action if they want to re-cast Pact Weapon. Of course, they can always just Eldritch Blast instead. So, it's a third-level spell that at best eats up a single action, but that's only at best, because the warlock still has a bunch of other stuff they could do with their action instead. So crippling.
Exactly, and it ate their action too. Yay?
It's only slightly better than dispelling Shillelagh.
If you could cast a 3rd-level spell and prevent a sorcerer from using sorcery points, or get rid of a fighter's fighting style/action surge/second wind all in one fell swoop, you'd think it was a pretty good deal
If they couldn't get it back, sure. Hint: they can.
Honestly, the more I mess with this the more I make characters the more I think about it, the better I am feeling this is.
The opposite for me. It started off bad and keeps getting worse the more I mess with it.
How much are you leaning into mystic arcanum? what I am seeing is the way you look at spells is flipping as a warlock. Instead of thinking of getting as many tools for various situations you find yourself in it needs to be thought of as "what am I probably going to use every day" for your "highest level slots" and the utility stuff is all for lower slots. There are a lot of things that need work though. Several invocations are still bad, and patron spell lists NEED to have useful spells at every level because getting that free cast is needed to really help. Fiend is not looking good in that regard AT ALL.
For one thing, wizards have a lot more slots than warlocks. It's not an equivalent effect/impact.
Dispelling a wizard's hold monster is annoying. Dispelling a hexblade's weapon is crippling.
It forces the warlock to waste one action if they want to re-cast Pact Weapon. Of course, they can always just Eldritch Blast instead. So, it's a third-level spell that at best eats up a single action, but that's only at best, because the warlock still has a bunch of other stuff they could do with their action instead. So crippling.
Exactly, and it ate their action too. Yay?
It's only slightly better than dispelling Shillelagh.
If you could cast a 3rd-level spell and prevent a sorcerer from using sorcery points, or get rid of a fighter's fighting style/action surge/second wind all in one fell swoop, you'd think it was a pretty good deal
If they couldn't get it back, sure. Hint: they can.
An hour later for Tome and Chain
It's nonsense
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
For one thing, wizards have a lot more slots than warlocks. It's not an equivalent effect/impact.
Dispelling a wizard's hold monster is annoying. Dispelling a hexblade's weapon is crippling.
It forces the warlock to waste one action if they want to re-cast Pact Weapon. Of course, they can always just Eldritch Blast instead. So, it's a third-level spell that at best eats up a single action, but that's only at best, because the warlock still has a bunch of other stuff they could do with their action instead. So crippling.
Exactly, and it ate their action too. Yay?
It's only slightly better than dispelling Shillelagh.
If you could cast a 3rd-level spell and prevent a sorcerer from using sorcery points, or get rid of a fighter's fighting style/action surge/second wind all in one fell swoop, you'd think it was a pretty good deal
If they couldn't get it back, sure. Hint: they can.
An hour later for Tome and Chain
It's nonsense
They can't dispel tome or chain, because the effect is instantaneous.
For one thing, wizards have a lot more slots than warlocks. It's not an equivalent effect/impact.
Dispelling a wizard's hold monster is annoying. Dispelling a hexblade's weapon is crippling.
It forces the warlock to waste one action if they want to re-cast Pact Weapon. Of course, they can always just Eldritch Blast instead. So, it's a third-level spell that at best eats up a single action, but that's only at best, because the warlock still has a bunch of other stuff they could do with their action instead. So crippling.
Exactly, and it ate their action too. Yay?
It's only slightly better than dispelling Shillelagh.
If you could cast a 3rd-level spell and prevent a sorcerer from using sorcery points, or get rid of a fighter's fighting style/action surge/second wind all in one fell swoop, you'd think it was a pretty good deal
If they couldn't get it back, sure. Hint: they can.
An hour later for Tome and Chain
It's nonsense
They can't dispel tome or chain, because the effect is instantaneous.
counterspell, not dispel
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Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
There were quite a few who wanted Intelligence as a possible casting stat instead of Cha (though why did they include Wis as an option? signing a pact with an other worldly entity is one of the least wise things you can do).
Why are they casting hour-long spells in combat for you to counter? Your objections make no sense.
Try to keep up, I already addressed that
The fact that it's even possible is a joke. Core class features should not be counterspell-able, regardless of how unlikely it is to happen
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Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
The arguments against the various Pact spells not being spells because then they can be countered/dispelled feels weird. Tome and Chain don't get cast somewhere an enemy can fidget with them, and Blade is an action to recast. That and if you have a magic weapon bound as your Pact blade you don't even lose the weapon, just the Blade enhancement on it. It feels like arguing for the sake of arguing and trying to sink the new design. It's worth considering, to be certain, but I don't think it's remotely as crippling as people are calling it out as.
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Nothing about the Pact Weapon spell says the cast time changes when cast on an existing magic weapon.
Edit: I did a stupid. This post is evidence of that. I seem to have only read the "initial thoughts" portion, not the thread being focused on warlock my bad lol
Why?
You can Counter/Dispell literally everything a wizard does. Every last class feature, every last ability, everything a wizard does is counterable/dispellable because the wizard gets actually factually nothing but spells, and nobody seems to give shit one or bat the slightest eye. Monsters having access to Dispel or Counter is very rare and getting rarer, and if you're fighting an archmage then maybe it shouldn't be so unexpected when the enemy archmage manages to muck with your magic.
Please do not contact or message me.
For one thing, wizards have a lot more slots than warlocks. It's not an equivalent effect/impact.
Dispelling a wizard's hold monster is annoying. Dispelling a hexblade's weapon is crippling.
Them trading a 3rd-level spell for your cantrip is "crippling?"
Ugh, that now makes three classes and a few other features that got shafted ridiculously hard in the playtest. Really not a fan of their new direction. Seriously, Wizards, people can cope with selecting from actual stat blocks rather than using a painfully watered down generic template, give us back the real Pact of the Chain.
It forces the warlock to waste one action if they want to re-cast Pact Weapon. Of course, they can always just Eldritch Blast instead. So, it's a third-level spell that at best eats up a single action, but that's only at best, because the warlock still has a bunch of other stuff they could do with their action instead. So crippling.
Honestly, the more I mess with this the more I make characters the more I think about it, the better I am feeling this is.
It's a cantrip in name only
If you could cast a 3rd-level spell and prevent a sorcerer from using sorcery points, or get rid of a fighter's fighting style/action surge/second wind all in one fell swoop, you'd think it was a pretty good deal
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Exactly, and it ate their action too. Yay?
It's only slightly better than dispelling Shillelagh.
If they couldn't get it back, sure. Hint: they can.
The opposite for me. It started off bad and keeps getting worse the more I mess with it.
How much are you leaning into mystic arcanum?
what I am seeing is the way you look at spells is flipping as a warlock. Instead of thinking of getting as many tools for various situations you find yourself in it needs to be thought of as "what am I probably going to use every day" for your "highest level slots" and the utility stuff is all for lower slots. There are a lot of things that need work though. Several invocations are still bad, and patron spell lists NEED to have useful spells at every level because getting that free cast is needed to really help. Fiend is not looking good in that regard AT ALL.
An hour later for Tome and Chain
It's nonsense
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
They can't dispel tome or chain, because the effect is instantaneous.
counterspell, not dispel
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Why are they casting hour-long spells in combat for you to counter? Your objections make no sense.
Not all pacts are either evil or parasitic.
Try to keep up, I already addressed that
The fact that it's even possible is a joke. Core class features should not be counterspell-able, regardless of how unlikely it is to happen
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
delete
The arguments against the various Pact spells not being spells because then they can be countered/dispelled feels weird. Tome and Chain don't get cast somewhere an enemy can fidget with them, and Blade is an action to recast. That and if you have a magic weapon bound as your Pact blade you don't even lose the weapon, just the Blade enhancement on it. It feels like arguing for the sake of arguing and trying to sink the new design. It's worth considering, to be certain, but I don't think it's remotely as crippling as people are calling it out as.
Please do not contact or message me.