New weapon properties and alterations are very fun and I love the idea of the weapon masteries to add new utility to martial focused characters.
New Epic Boons - Great! Ive always liked both giving and receiving boons as a player and DM. Probably add more than these at my tables, but its nice to have a guaranteed boon worked in as part of capstone for single class players.
Overall multiclassing nerfs - less of a fan. I believe maybe putting a limit on the amount of classes a singe character can spec into is reasonable, but alot of the changes to how multiclassing works and what seem to be much heavier downsides to dipping in other classes is less fun.
Class and subclass changes:
Barbarian - Fun changes, I like the update and it seems like it can go in interesting directions. Hopefully we do still get somewhat casty barbarians as they were fun in a mystic tribal kind of way without having to be a druid.
Fighter - Definitely getting there, I personally think some basic maneuvers should come with all fighter classes, with one class heavily specializing in them, but that comes from wanting martial flexibility like with the weapons.
Sorcerer - Pretty decent updates overall. Arcane apotheosis or something like it is something I feel could have been a better solution to warlock issues than the changes they decided to make. Although it is a reasonable change on the distant spell metamagic, i still liked the ridiculous & rarely useful range you could get with distant spell and spell sniper. While old twinned spell was overpowered, i feel the new version is almost functionally useless.
Warlock - The one class change that I have the biggest issue with is changing the pact magic for spellcasting. What made the Warlock unique in 5E was the always cast at highest available spell slot burst damage & innate alterations to how those spells worked or how the warlock interacted with the world using their invocations. What they needed was to have the ability to do more of what they did more often. As mentioned above, maybe something like arcane apotheosis where the warlock regains some of their expended spell slots at start of initiative or has another way to regain them between long rests. Maybe to blend with the more martial based mix this version is going for, they have some sort of cantrip they can use when attacking and killing an enemy with a martial weapon to siphon magic and regain spell slots forcing them to be get in the fray to fuel their magic.
Giving the warlock 5 spell slots, letting them regain some of them between short rests & letting them still have the very powerful mystic arcanum spells between 6-9th level will still help them keep the core of what they were.
The other changes to Warlock are beneficial to their playstyle though, medium armor proficiency and having the familiar, tome, and weapon be cantrips for the class is great. Maybe an invocation to gain the features of the other pact boons rather than the mystic arcanum invocations the prereq for those invocations could be a ability score threshold or just being level locked so someone doesn't just start the game with all three (though that does limit their other flexibility with invocations so maybe not a bad thing entirely if they can get all three right away?)
Wizard seems like an overall good shift. Seems like they are trying to incorporate some of the scribe features into the base class. If they dont incorporate all of the features, it would be nice to see the spell scribe come back again in the next version. Being able to be extremely flexible with your casting is very appealing.
Overall, I would rate the update as a 7 out of 10 with the 3 points being knocked off for the pact magic to spellcasting change on the Warlock. There are other ways to make their pact magic viable without scrapping it entirely.
I am SO SICK of having to make sure EVERY SINGLE GOD DAMNED SPELL on my warlocks' spell lists is something that scales strongly with spell level and having to discard cool non-scaling spells as I level because that's the only way to make Pact Magic into something other than a sad bad joke. What if I want to cast Expeditious Retreat, or Unseen Servant, or Mirror Image, or Spider Climb, or Gaseous Form, or Major Image, or any of the other 80+% of the Warlock's spell list that doesn't have super strong spell slot scaling? Well if I wanna warlock correctly I don't get to do any of that, because EVERY Pact Magic spell HAS to scale to your current slot level or YOU ARE TERRIBLE FOREVER, and frankly now that I've seen the half-caster version of warlock I have absolutely no desire whatsoever to go back to never being able to use utility magic. **** that shit in the ******* ****hole. Let's keep half-casting and toss Pact Magic in the "neat ideas that didn't pan out" bin where it belongs.
Respectful but hard disagree, Yurei. Pact Magic is one (not the only, of course) things that helps give the warlocks a distinct flavor and helps them feel different from every other caster.
Expanding the spell slots slightly pretty much solves these problems - 2 slots 1-5th level; 4 slots 6-10th level; 8 slots 11-16th level...something like that? (again, just spitballing here, not offering these specific numbers as the best option).
And I love that currently spells currently scale. I've never felt like I was wasting a spell that didn't scale if I chose to cast one and never had anyone take me to task for it.
Respectful but hard disagree, Yurei. Pact Magic is one (not the only, of course) things that helps give the warlocks a distinct flavor and helps them feel different from every other caster.
Expanding the spell slots slightly pretty much solves these problems - 2 slots 1-5th level; 4 slots 6-10th level; 8 slots 11-16th level...something like that? (again, just spitballing here, not offering these specific numbers as the best option).
And I love that currently spells currently scale. I've never felt like I was wasting a spell that didn't scale if I chose to cast one and never had anyone take me to task for it.
I'm trying to imagine a party member complaining because you cast death ward on them...
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Respectful but hard disagree, Yurei. Pact Magic is one (not the only, of course) things that helps give the warlocks a distinct flavor and helps them feel different from every other caster.
Expanding the spell slots slightly pretty much solves these problems - 2 slots 1-5th level; 4 slots 6-10th level; 8 slots 11-16th level...something like that? (again, just spitballing here, not offering these specific numbers as the best option).
And I love that currently spells currently scale. I've never felt like I was wasting a spell that didn't scale if I chose to cast one and never had anyone take me to task for it.
Or just use total spell slots equal to your PB with those spell slots spread out as you level to eventually give you something like 1 1st 1 2nd 1 3rd 1 4th 2 5th, and allow a warlock to refresh those slots by meditating for 5 minutes some set number of times per day.
Pact magic is not bad, the short rests taking an hour is bad. Pact magic is pretty close to how the game should be designed with classes more based around a per encounter system vs a per day system. Where they screwed up is making short rests take an hour instead of just being a 5 minute breather. About the only issue with pact magic is not enough spells scale and some like major image should probably slide their scaling into working with the 5th level cap, or allow the warlock to use their mystic acranums as up cast spells as well.
Respectful but hard disagree, Yurei. Pact Magic is one (not the only, of course) things that helps give the warlocks a distinct flavor and helps them feel different from every other caster.
Expanding the spell slots slightly pretty much solves these problems - 2 slots 1-5th level; 4 slots 6-10th level; 8 slots 11-16th level...something like that? (again, just spitballing here, not offering these specific numbers as the best option).
And I love that currently spells currently scale. I've never felt like I was wasting a spell that didn't scale if I chose to cast one and never had anyone take me to task for it.
Absolutely not.
Just giving players one extra Pact Magic spell slot solves nothing. You still aren't allowed to use your Pact slots on utility magic or spells that fit your warlock as a character because they all HAVE TO BE some sort of super-scaling blasty Destructobomb spell. Pact Magic itself is bad. Please let's have a warlock that focuses on Invocations and their Pact Boon instead of being shoehorned into "I'm a blasty spellcaster twice a day and the rest of the time I'm completely ******* useless!" garbage like they often are now.
You still aren't allowed to use your Pact slots on utility magic or spells that fit your warlock as a character because they all HAVE TO BE some sort of super-scaling blasty Destructobomb spell.
And yet I have, with every warlock I've played
Maybe it's not Pact Magic that's the problem
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Maybe make pact of the tome or tome casters get spellcasting as part of their spellbook if we really need to go down this road, but part of the fun of Warlocks was being able to Burst with their spellcasting and have invocations to make those spells or how your warlock operates unique. Warlocks as they are currently has been my favorite class in DND for most of the last decade.
Giving them more spell slots or a way to regain spell slots between rests consistently would solve the issues with "Being forced to pick scaling only spells" Or maybe give some of those other spells properties that can scale as well? There are plenty of ways to fix the class without scrapping a huge part of what made it unique.
Maybe if some of those utility spells are upcast they can have Special abilities: Major image could automatically get is 6th level upcast feature, allow Mirror Image to have a higher AC or trick creatures with blind/truesight . It could allow for additional benefits like giving a movement speed buff on Spider climb Expeditious Retreat or Gaseous Form. Unseen Servant Could get a longer range, or the ability to attack, or even the ability to have you operate spells through it like a familiar or perceive from its senses.
Additionally if you only give Warlocks these special upcast interactions if they choose them for their pact spells it makes them even more unique and gives an even stronger reason to play them. Maybe just have a pact spell version of each of the items on the Warlock spell list that only Warlocks get access to.
I understand where you are coming from, but in this case I feel like they should lean harder into what made them unique and give them more benefits for being that way rather than just making them a half-caster and calling it a day.
I'm pretty sure this is meant as a bit of hyperbole:
You still aren't allowed to use your Pact slots on utility magic or spells that fit your warlock as a character because they all HAVE TO BE some sort of super-scaling blasty Destructobomb spell.
...but I've never found it to be true.
Then again, I've only played hexblade warlocks, so my experience probably isn't representative. But I had a LOT of fun using a combo of blur and blink with my warlock, neither of which scale and I was never given a hard time about it from my DM or fellow players.
Respectful but hard disagree, Yurei. Pact Magic is one (not the only, of course) things that helps give the warlocks a distinct flavor and helps them feel different from every other caster.
Expanding the spell slots slightly pretty much solves these problems - 2 slots 1-5th level; 4 slots 6-10th level; 8 slots 11-16th level...something like that? (again, just spitballing here, not offering these specific numbers as the best option).
And I love that currently spells currently scale. I've never felt like I was wasting a spell that didn't scale if I chose to cast one and never had anyone take me to task for it.
Absolutely not.
Just giving players one extra Pact Magic spell slot solves nothing. You still aren't allowed to use your Pact slots on utility magic or spells that fit your warlock as a character because they all HAVE TO BE some sort of super-scaling blasty Destructobomb spell. Pact Magic itself is bad. Please let's have a warlock that focuses on Invocations and their Pact Boon instead of being shoehorned into "I'm a blasty spellcaster twice a day and the rest of the time I'm completely ******* useless!" garbage like they often are now.
Why do all casts have to be super scaling blasty desructobomb spells? Most my casts did not scale at all. And it worked out fine. I think some more spells could use scaling, some spells could use better scaling, but large swaths of spells don't need it and its fine using your short rest slot on it.
Respectful but hard disagree, Yurei. Pact Magic is one (not the only, of course) things that helps give the warlocks a distinct flavor and helps them feel different from every other caster.
Expanding the spell slots slightly pretty much solves these problems - 2 slots 1-5th level; 4 slots 6-10th level; 8 slots 11-16th level...something like that? (again, just spitballing here, not offering these specific numbers as the best option).
And I love that currently spells currently scale. I've never felt like I was wasting a spell that didn't scale if I chose to cast one and never had anyone take me to task for it.
Absolutely not.
Just giving players one extra Pact Magic spell slot solves nothing. You still aren't allowed to use your Pact slots on utility magic or spells that fit your warlock as a character because they all HAVE TO BE some sort of super-scaling blasty Destructobomb spell. Pact Magic itself is bad. Please let's have a warlock that focuses on Invocations and their Pact Boon instead of being shoehorned into "I'm a blasty spellcaster twice a day and the rest of the time I'm completely ******* useless!" garbage like they often are now.
What you want is to play a tomelock. And that's fine. One of the most fun characters I've ever played was a tome pact warlock purely focused on utility magic.
That being said, I don't dislike the new warlock magic system. But I do think it should scale much better. Either that or give warlocks a variety of curses that they can cast without spending spell slots. That would give it a very warlock flavor.
What makes warlocks unique is Eldritch Invocations. Warlock is traditionally one of my strongest/favorite classes, I'm not speaking from a place of "I don't play them but I might if they..." here. I play warlocks because I love the Invocation system and the build-your-own-class options it provides. Pact Magic is supposed to be the warlock's big bread-and-butter Class Defining Ability, but its usefulness is so ferociously limited outside low-tier play that higher-level warlocks I've run have mostly just had to forget Pact Magic exists. You get Eldritch Blast and whatever your Invocations do, and nothing else because it's either never worth it to burn a Pact slot on whatever you're doing, or you've given up all the utility options your Pact magic might've otherwise allowed you to have because it's simply not worth using a Pact slot on a low-level utility spell when that same slot could be spent on Hadar's Bigger Bonkening instead.
There's no reason warlocks can't be unique and delightful to play with half-casting and Invocations instead of Pact Magic and Invocations. the Invocations are what makes the class, not the crappy bullshit twice-a-day bad spellcasting.
Pact magic is not bad, the short rests taking an hour is bad. Pact magic is pretty close to how the game should be designed with classes more based around a per encounter system vs a per day system. Where they screwed up is making short rests take an hour instead of just being a 5 minute breather. About the only issue with pact magic is not enough spells scale and some like major image should probably slide their scaling into working with the 5th level cap, or allow the warlock to use their mystic acranums as up cast spells as well.
I think the bigger problem with short rests was not giving other classes enough reason to take them. Yes, some other classes got some use out of them, but warlocks are the only class that needed them to work well. The hour or five minutes or however long is just going to get hand waved, and while there are going to be campaigns and situations where the time really matters, it seems like more often, it doesn’t really matter too much.
Now it seems like short rests are mostly going to be about hp recovery, but at least everyone will have the same interest in taking it, as opposed to it being basically a stealth class feature for warlocks.
I dunno, I actually rather like Warlocks being half casters. Pact Magic was always stressful for people. They either hoarded the slots and never spent them, or blew them both right away and had nothing left to spare later.
I never had that problem, the only problem with Pact Magic was that not enough Warlock spells were upcastable. But then I don’t think resource management is a problem at all, it’s an aspect of the game I rather enjoy, and they’re chopping it all out.
What makes warlocks unique is Eldritch Invocations. Warlock is traditionally one of my strongest/favorite classes, I'm not speaking from a place of "I don't play them but I might if they..." here. I play warlocks because I love the Invocation system and the build-your-own-class options it provides. Pact Magic is supposed to be the warlock's big bread-and-butter Class Defining Ability, but its usefulness is so ferociously limited outside low-tier play that higher-level warlocks I've run have mostly just had to forget Pact Magic exists. You get Eldritch Blast and whatever your Invocations do, and nothing else because it's either never worth it to burn a Pact slot on whatever you're doing, or you've given up all the utility options your Pact magic might've otherwise allowed you to have because it's simply not worth using a Pact slot on a low-level utility spell when that same slot could be spent on Hadar's Bigger Bonkening instead.
There's no reason warlocks can't be unique and delightful to play with half-casting and Invocations instead of Pact Magic and Invocations. the Invocations are what makes the class, not the crappy bullshit twice-a-day bad spellcasting.
Ill be clear, I am not saying this as if you are a newbie player. I doubt anyone who is taking the time to comment on these forums right now Is new to DND.
However reference to what you've said above, Ive run Warlocks up to 20 in multiple campaigns and had players do the same in some of mine. Ive never had a case where there is reason to not use your pact magic, & with the mystic arcanums on top of that giving you the higher level spells it is intrinsically a part of the class.
If you really need this pact magic to spellcasting change, maybe make it an invocation that a player can choose to take, but dont force the whole class to change just for that. Make BOTH of the signature abilities, pact magic and invocations, function better together and in tandem as the class was intended.
I know this thread is mainly regarding mechanical interaction for the new system, but thematically, pact magic and the way it works makes more sense for a caster being granted their magic by a patron. Whenever they are using their pact magic they are essentially invoking their patron for a portion of their power so they can use it. The patron only wants to spend the time necessary to do this a few times a day and just sends them the maximum amount of magic their body can handle in a burst to cast the spell they are trying to do. Invocations themselves are the warlocks ties with their patron corrupting them further and twisting how they interact with the world.
A warlock's pact magic is more similar to a clerics channel divinity than it is to a wizards spellcasting. By its nature it is a once in a while thing, not a use all the time and in every circumstance thing.
One other thing they need to redo: capstones for the barbarian and warlock. Why nerf the barbarian from 24 to 22 per stat? Is that extra +1 at level 18 really that bad when you hand out a buff to the wish spell to a sorcerer and free 3rd level spells to the wizard? The warlock needs something better as well, a free cast of a nerfed level 1 concentration requiring spell is not exactly what I'd expect at level 18.
One small thing that I find odd is that a 7th level Fighter is considered a Weapon "Expert" whereas a 13th level Fighter is considered to be Weapon "Adept." Shouldn't that be the other way around? Isnt an Expert someone with greater mastery of a subject/art than someone who is Adept at it? Despite English being my first (and practically only) language, I am still not a master of some of its finer details
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Can’t cast a second leveled spell with Action Surge. Didn’t see that coming
Yeah, that seemed like an unnecessary change, and even messes with some fighter subclass features (War Magic, for instance)
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
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Quick Summary of what I've read through on this.
New weapon properties and alterations are very fun and I love the idea of the weapon masteries to add new utility to martial focused characters.
New Epic Boons - Great! Ive always liked both giving and receiving boons as a player and DM. Probably add more than these at my tables, but its nice to have a guaranteed boon worked in as part of capstone for single class players.
Overall multiclassing nerfs - less of a fan. I believe maybe putting a limit on the amount of classes a singe character can spec into is reasonable, but alot of the changes to how multiclassing works and what seem to be much heavier downsides to dipping in other classes is less fun.
Class and subclass changes:
Barbarian - Fun changes, I like the update and it seems like it can go in interesting directions. Hopefully we do still get somewhat casty barbarians as they were fun in a mystic tribal kind of way without having to be a druid.
Fighter - Definitely getting there, I personally think some basic maneuvers should come with all fighter classes, with one class heavily specializing in them, but that comes from wanting martial flexibility like with the weapons.
Sorcerer - Pretty decent updates overall. Arcane apotheosis or something like it is something I feel could have been a better solution to warlock issues than the changes they decided to make. Although it is a reasonable change on the distant spell metamagic, i still liked the ridiculous & rarely useful range you could get with distant spell and spell sniper. While old twinned spell was overpowered, i feel the new version is almost functionally useless.
Warlock - The one class change that I have the biggest issue with is changing the pact magic for spellcasting. What made the Warlock unique in 5E was the always cast at highest available spell slot burst damage & innate alterations to how those spells worked or how the warlock interacted with the world using their invocations. What they needed was to have the ability to do more of what they did more often. As mentioned above, maybe something like arcane apotheosis where the warlock regains some of their expended spell slots at start of initiative or has another way to regain them between long rests. Maybe to blend with the more martial based mix this version is going for, they have some sort of cantrip they can use when attacking and killing an enemy with a martial weapon to siphon magic and regain spell slots forcing them to be get in the fray to fuel their magic.
Giving the warlock 5 spell slots, letting them regain some of them between short rests & letting them still have the very powerful mystic arcanum spells between 6-9th level will still help them keep the core of what they were.
The other changes to Warlock are beneficial to their playstyle though, medium armor proficiency and having the familiar, tome, and weapon be cantrips for the class is great. Maybe an invocation to gain the features of the other pact boons rather than the mystic arcanum invocations the prereq for those invocations could be a ability score threshold or just being level locked so someone doesn't just start the game with all three (though that does limit their other flexibility with invocations so maybe not a bad thing entirely if they can get all three right away?)
Wizard seems like an overall good shift. Seems like they are trying to incorporate some of the scribe features into the base class. If they dont incorporate all of the features, it would be nice to see the spell scribe come back again in the next version. Being able to be extremely flexible with your casting is very appealing.
Overall, I would rate the update as a 7 out of 10 with the 3 points being knocked off for the pact magic to spellcasting change on the Warlock. There are other ways to make their pact magic viable without scrapping it entirely.
Look, y'all.
Pact Magic is bad.
I am SO SICK of having to make sure EVERY SINGLE GOD DAMNED SPELL on my warlocks' spell lists is something that scales strongly with spell level and having to discard cool non-scaling spells as I level because that's the only way to make Pact Magic into something other than a sad bad joke. What if I want to cast Expeditious Retreat, or Unseen Servant, or Mirror Image, or Spider Climb, or Gaseous Form, or Major Image, or any of the other 80+% of the Warlock's spell list that doesn't have super strong spell slot scaling? Well if I wanna warlock correctly I don't get to do any of that, because EVERY Pact Magic spell HAS to scale to your current slot level or YOU ARE TERRIBLE FOREVER, and frankly now that I've seen the half-caster version of warlock I have absolutely no desire whatsoever to go back to never being able to use utility magic. **** that shit in the ******* ****hole. Let's keep half-casting and toss Pact Magic in the "neat ideas that didn't pan out" bin where it belongs.
Please do not contact or message me.
Respectful but hard disagree, Yurei. Pact Magic is one (not the only, of course) things that helps give the warlocks a distinct flavor and helps them feel different from every other caster.
Expanding the spell slots slightly pretty much solves these problems - 2 slots 1-5th level; 4 slots 6-10th level; 8 slots 11-16th level...something like that? (again, just spitballing here, not offering these specific numbers as the best option).
And I love that currently spells currently scale. I've never felt like I was wasting a spell that didn't scale if I chose to cast one and never had anyone take me to task for it.
I'm trying to imagine a party member complaining because you cast death ward on them...
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Or just use total spell slots equal to your PB with those spell slots spread out as you level to eventually give you something like 1 1st 1 2nd 1 3rd 1 4th 2 5th, and allow a warlock to refresh those slots by meditating for 5 minutes some set number of times per day.
Pact magic is not bad, the short rests taking an hour is bad. Pact magic is pretty close to how the game should be designed with classes more based around a per encounter system vs a per day system. Where they screwed up is making short rests take an hour instead of just being a 5 minute breather. About the only issue with pact magic is not enough spells scale and some like major image should probably slide their scaling into working with the 5th level cap, or allow the warlock to use their mystic acranums as up cast spells as well.
Absolutely not.
Just giving players one extra Pact Magic spell slot solves nothing. You still aren't allowed to use your Pact slots on utility magic or spells that fit your warlock as a character because they all HAVE TO BE some sort of super-scaling blasty Destructobomb spell. Pact Magic itself is bad. Please let's have a warlock that focuses on Invocations and their Pact Boon instead of being shoehorned into "I'm a blasty spellcaster twice a day and the rest of the time I'm completely ******* useless!" garbage like they often are now.
Please do not contact or message me.
And yet I have, with every warlock I've played
Maybe it's not Pact Magic that's the problem
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
@Yurei
Maybe make pact of the tome or tome casters get spellcasting as part of their spellbook if we really need to go down this road, but part of the fun of Warlocks was being able to Burst with their spellcasting and have invocations to make those spells or how your warlock operates unique. Warlocks as they are currently has been my favorite class in DND for most of the last decade.
Giving them more spell slots or a way to regain spell slots between rests consistently would solve the issues with "Being forced to pick scaling only spells" Or maybe give some of those other spells properties that can scale as well? There are plenty of ways to fix the class without scrapping a huge part of what made it unique.
Maybe if some of those utility spells are upcast they can have Special abilities: Major image could automatically get is 6th level upcast feature, allow Mirror Image to have a higher AC or trick creatures with blind/truesight . It could allow for additional benefits like giving a movement speed buff on Spider climb Expeditious Retreat or Gaseous Form. Unseen Servant Could get a longer range, or the ability to attack, or even the ability to have you operate spells through it like a familiar or perceive from its senses.
Additionally if you only give Warlocks these special upcast interactions if they choose them for their pact spells it makes them even more unique and gives an even stronger reason to play them. Maybe just have a pact spell version of each of the items on the Warlock spell list that only Warlocks get access to.
I understand where you are coming from, but in this case I feel like they should lean harder into what made them unique and give them more benefits for being that way rather than just making them a half-caster and calling it a day.
I'm pretty sure this is meant as a bit of hyperbole:
...but I've never found it to be true.
Then again, I've only played hexblade warlocks, so my experience probably isn't representative. But I had a LOT of fun using a combo of blur and blink with my warlock, neither of which scale and I was never given a hard time about it from my DM or fellow players.
Why do all casts have to be super scaling blasty desructobomb spells? Most my casts did not scale at all. And it worked out fine. I think some more spells could use scaling, some spells could use better scaling, but large swaths of spells don't need it and its fine using your short rest slot on it.
What you want is to play a tomelock. And that's fine. One of the most fun characters I've ever played was a tome pact warlock purely focused on utility magic.
That being said, I don't dislike the new warlock magic system. But I do think it should scale much better. Either that or give warlocks a variety of curses that they can cast without spending spell slots. That would give it a very warlock flavor.
What makes warlocks unique is Eldritch Invocations. Warlock is traditionally one of my strongest/favorite classes, I'm not speaking from a place of "I don't play them but I might if they..." here. I play warlocks because I love the Invocation system and the build-your-own-class options it provides. Pact Magic is supposed to be the warlock's big bread-and-butter Class Defining Ability, but its usefulness is so ferociously limited outside low-tier play that higher-level warlocks I've run have mostly just had to forget Pact Magic exists. You get Eldritch Blast and whatever your Invocations do, and nothing else because it's either never worth it to burn a Pact slot on whatever you're doing, or you've given up all the utility options your Pact magic might've otherwise allowed you to have because it's simply not worth using a Pact slot on a low-level utility spell when that same slot could be spent on Hadar's Bigger Bonkening instead.
There's no reason warlocks can't be unique and delightful to play with half-casting and Invocations instead of Pact Magic and Invocations. the Invocations are what makes the class, not the crappy bullshit twice-a-day bad spellcasting.
Please do not contact or message me.
I think the bigger problem with short rests was not giving other classes enough reason to take them. Yes, some other classes got some use out of them, but warlocks are the only class that needed them to work well. The hour or five minutes or however long is just going to get hand waved, and while there are going to be campaigns and situations where the time really matters, it seems like more often, it doesn’t really matter too much.
Now it seems like short rests are mostly going to be about hp recovery, but at least everyone will have the same interest in taking it, as opposed to it being basically a stealth class feature for warlocks.
I never had that problem, the only problem with Pact Magic was that not enough Warlock spells were upcastable. But then I don’t think resource management is a problem at all, it’s an aspect of the game I rather enjoy, and they’re chopping it all out.
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Ill be clear, I am not saying this as if you are a newbie player. I doubt anyone who is taking the time to comment on these forums right now Is new to DND.
However reference to what you've said above, Ive run Warlocks up to 20 in multiple campaigns and had players do the same in some of mine. Ive never had a case where there is reason to not use your pact magic, & with the mystic arcanums on top of that giving you the higher level spells it is intrinsically a part of the class.
If you really need this pact magic to spellcasting change, maybe make it an invocation that a player can choose to take, but dont force the whole class to change just for that. Make BOTH of the signature abilities, pact magic and invocations, function better together and in tandem as the class was intended.
I know this thread is mainly regarding mechanical interaction for the new system, but thematically, pact magic and the way it works makes more sense for a caster being granted their magic by a patron. Whenever they are using their pact magic they are essentially invoking their patron for a portion of their power so they can use it. The patron only wants to spend the time necessary to do this a few times a day and just sends them the maximum amount of magic their body can handle in a burst to cast the spell they are trying to do. Invocations themselves are the warlocks ties with their patron corrupting them further and twisting how they interact with the world.
A warlock's pact magic is more similar to a clerics channel divinity than it is to a wizards spellcasting. By its nature it is a once in a while thing, not a use all the time and in every circumstance thing.
One other thing they need to redo: capstones for the barbarian and warlock. Why nerf the barbarian from 24 to 22 per stat? Is that extra +1 at level 18 really that bad when you hand out a buff to the wish spell to a sorcerer and free 3rd level spells to the wizard? The warlock needs something better as well, a free cast of a nerfed level 1 concentration requiring spell is not exactly what I'd expect at level 18.
Can’t cast a second leveled spell with Action Surge. Didn’t see that coming
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One small thing that I find odd is that a 7th level Fighter is considered a Weapon "Expert" whereas a 13th level Fighter is considered to be Weapon "Adept." Shouldn't that be the other way around? Isnt an Expert someone with greater mastery of a subject/art than someone who is Adept at it? Despite English being my first (and practically only) language, I am still not a master of some of its finer details
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Yeah, that seemed like an unnecessary change, and even messes with some fighter subclass features (War Magic, for instance)
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)