However, integrating features into the magic system of the classes what it does is simplify their management.
Turning warlock pact boons into cantrips in no way "simplifies their management"
No, turning pacts into cantrips doesn't simplify resource management since it was never something that spent resources. However, it does not complicate it either.
I really don't understand your aversion to this design. I like it because it opens the door for casters to have their features centralized in a single system. For example, that instead of being able to use wild shape x times, it's a level 3 spell (to say the least) and that you can cast at higher levels to gain other things. And for Wizards, for example, it makes a lot of sense that writing down their spells in a book is a ritual.
So you want druid's wild shapes to be counterspelled? That'll go over well
Frankly, I don't see the problem. You're not going to play a Wizard because pretty much everything it can do can be counterspelled or dispelled?
Every wizard subclass in 5e has important non-spell features that are core to their identity. Abjuration has their ward, Divination their portents, Bladesinging, etc etc
Asserting "everything they do is a spell" doesn't make it true. Nor should it be true. No other class is that incredibly one-note, not even fighters
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
However, integrating features into the magic system of the classes what it does is simplify their management.
Turning warlock pact boons into cantrips in no way "simplifies their management"
No, turning pacts into cantrips doesn't simplify resource management since it was never something that spent resources. However, it does not complicate it either.
I really don't understand your aversion to this design. I like it because it opens the door for casters to have their features centralized in a single system. For example, that instead of being able to use wild shape x times, it's a level 3 spell (to say the least) and that you can cast at higher levels to gain other things. And for Wizards, for example, it makes a lot of sense that writing down their spells in a book is a ritual.
So you want druid's wild shapes to be counterspelled? That'll go over well
Frankly, I don't see the problem. You're not going to play a Wizard because pretty much everything it can do can be counterspelled or dispelled? Sorry but I don't understand that logic.
And yes, it seems thematic to me that everything a wizard does has to do with his arcane magic. That everything a cleric does has to do with his divine magic or that everything a druid does has to do with his natural magic. Call me weird if you want, but I find it highly thematic and immersive.
That’s so boring. As is there’s really not much to actually do regarding PC development after you pick a subclass other than track the scant few resources they get. This just makes it even more samesame. Why should “everything” a caster does be shoehorned into the [Tooltip Not Found] action?!? That’s like saying “everything” I fighter does has to involve the Attack action. It’s just ridiculous. I truly wish they had gone the opposite direction and actually converted eldritch blast, hex, hunter’s mark, chaos bolt, and find familiar into actual class features.
However, integrating features into the magic system of the classes what it does is simplify their management.
Turning warlock pact boons into cantrips in no way "simplifies their management"
No, turning pacts into cantrips doesn't simplify resource management since it was never something that spent resources. However, it does not complicate it either.
I really don't understand your aversion to this design. I like it because it opens the door for casters to have their features centralized in a single system. For example, that instead of being able to use wild shape x times, it's a level 3 spell (to say the least) and that you can cast at higher levels to gain other things. And for Wizards, for example, it makes a lot of sense that writing down their spells in a book is a ritual.
So you want druid's wild shapes to be counterspelled? That'll go over well
Frankly, I don't see the problem. You're not going to play a Wizard because pretty much everything it can do can be counterspelled or dispelled? Sorry but I don't understand that logic.
And yes, it seems thematic to me that everything a wizard does has to do with his arcane magic. That everything a cleric does has to do with his divine magic or that everything a druid does has to do with his natural magic. Call me weird if you want, but I find it highly thematic and immersive.
That’s so boring. As is there’s really not much to actually do regarding PC development after you pick a subclass other than track the scant few resources they get. This just makes it even more samesame. Why should “everything” a caster does be shoehorned into the Cast a Spell action?!? That’s like saying “everything” I fighter does has to involve the Attack action. It’s just ridiculous. I truly wish they had gone the opposite direction and actually converted eldritch blast, hex, hunter’s mark, chaos bolt, and find familiar into actual class features.
That would be nice. But hey, there’s always homebrew, other TTRPGs like pathfinder, and older editions like 3.5, some of which are probably better than all this nonsense.
People are objecting that everything that is magical in nature would be done through the magic system? Weird.
Yeah, because "magical in nature" covers a lot more than just spellcasting
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
People are objecting that everything that is magical in nature would be done through the magic system? Weird.
It’s not all magical.
What thing that is "not magical" has been made into a spell? Summoning a pact weapon has always been magical in nature, it just didn't use a spell mechanic before now. It used an ad-hoc mechanic for something that was inherently magical. That makes no sense. Moving it to a spell makes a LOT more sense, reducing the number of ad-hoc mechanics.
People are objecting that everything that is magical in nature would be done through the magic system? Weird.
Yeah, because "magical in nature" covers a lot more than just spellcasting
Only because you want it to. It's just as valid to say that all magical abilities are spells of some sort, since spells are the consistent mechanic (as opposed to ad-hoc mechanics) that the game gives for magic. Reducing things from a bunch of ad-hoc magical mechanics PLUS spells, to making spells be the mechanic for all magic is a good and simplifying design choice ...and not one that is unique to One D&D.
Only because you want it to. It's just as valid to say that all magical abilities are spells of some sort, since spells are the consistent mechanic (as opposed to ad-hoc mechanics) that the game gives for magic. Reducing things from a bunch of ad-hoc magical mechanics PLUS spells, to making spells be the mechanic for all magic is a good and simplifying design choice ...and not one that is unique to One D&D.
Again I point out that they're going in completely the opposite direction with monster stat blocks, and phasing out spells in favor of "ad-hoc magical mechanics"
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Only because you want it to. It's just as valid to say that all magical abilities are spells of some sort, since spells are the consistent mechanic (as opposed to ad-hoc mechanics) that the game gives for magic. Reducing things from a bunch of ad-hoc magical mechanics PLUS spells, to making spells be the mechanic for all magic is a good and simplifying design choice ...and not one that is unique to One D&D.
Again I point out that they're going in completely the opposite direction with monster stat blocks, and phasing out spells in favor of "ad-hoc magical mechanics"
And I agree that that shift with monsters is a bad thing. That doesn't mean it's a bad thing to move character mechanics toward "all magical abilities use spell mechanics."
I’m wondering if the change was for streamlining on dnd beyond. That way you have more relevant rules and uses remaining all in one place.
I think this is easily the answer. Something to keep in mind for OneD&D is that it's not simply meant as an update to 5e, but also is intended to make the game run more smoothly through D&DBeyond and the upcoming official VTT. Turning these class features means that, if you buy the physical book, there's more flipping to the back for the spell lists in order to utilize these features, but for DDB that consolidates class features in one location, and also simplifies adding new, similar features in the future. Now instead of needing to code a separate class feature and decide where it will appear on the character sheet, it just gets added to your spell list.
That doesn't mean it's a bad thing to move character mechanics toward "all magical abilities use spell mechanics."
Only if you view homogeneity as a positive regardless of context
Saying it "makes things simpler" -- even if I granted it were true, which I don't -- isn't the same as saying it makes things better. No one's yet offered an explanation for how it actually makes things better
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
So, I guess Dispel Magic will knock out a Warlock's Pact of the Blade (or whatever) now?
dispel magic would already remove your Armor of Agathys and mirror image, so why not a conjured weapon? also, seems like you'd still be holding a bonded magic weapon (only minus the bond).
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unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: providefeedback!
That doesn't mean it's a bad thing to move character mechanics toward "all magical abilities use spell mechanics."
Only if you view homogeneity as a positive regardless of context
Saying it "makes things simpler" -- even if I granted it were true, which I don't -- isn't the same as saying it makes things better. No one's yet offered an explanation for how it actually makes things better
Homogeneity of mechanics (as in "Unified Mechanics") is a positive thing, yes. (Homogeneity of flavor/fluff is entirely different) And simplicity (when it follows the _actual_ principles of minimalism) is better than needless complexity. And the complexity they're reducing is definitely not needed.
So, I guess Dispel Magic will knock out a Warlock's Pact of the Blade (or whatever) now?
dispel magic would already remove your Armor of Agathys and mirror image, so why not a conjured weapon? also, seems like you'd still be holding a bonded magic weapon (only minus the bond).
You would also lose your ability to fight with you caster stat and your proficiency with the weapon.
Every wizard subclass in 5e has important non-spell features that are core to their identity. Abjuration has their ward, Divination their portents, Bladesinging, etc etc
Asserting "everything they do is a spell" doesn't make it true. Nor should it be true. No other class is that incredibly one-note, not even fighters
I'm about to blow your mind but - Warlocks get subclass features too! Crazy, I know.
So, I guess Dispel Magic will knock out a Warlock's Pact of the Blade (or whatever) now?
dispel magic would already remove your Armor of Agathys and mirror image, so why not a conjured weapon? also, seems like you'd still be holding a bonded magic weapon (only minus the bond).
You would also lose your ability to fight with you caster stat and your proficiency with the weapon.
Until next turn. Meanwhile, you lost a limited resource in order to counter an unlimited resource.
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Every wizard subclass in 5e has important non-spell features that are core to their identity. Abjuration has their ward, Divination their portents, Bladesinging, etc etc
Asserting "everything they do is a spell" doesn't make it true. Nor should it be true. No other class is that incredibly one-note, not even fighters
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
That’s so boring. As is there’s really not much to actually do regarding PC development after you pick a subclass other than track the scant few resources they get. This just makes it even more samesame. Why should “everything” a caster does be shoehorned into the [Tooltip Not Found] action?!? That’s like saying “everything” I fighter does has to involve the Attack action. It’s just ridiculous. I truly wish they had gone the opposite direction and actually converted eldritch blast, hex, hunter’s mark, chaos bolt, and find familiar into actual class features.
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That would be nice. But hey, there’s always homebrew, other TTRPGs like pathfinder, and older editions like 3.5, some of which are probably better than all this nonsense.
People are objecting that everything that is magical in nature would be done through the magic system? Weird.
Yeah, because "magical in nature" covers a lot more than just spellcasting
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
It’s not all magical.
What thing that is "not magical" has been made into a spell? Summoning a pact weapon has always been magical in nature, it just didn't use a spell mechanic before now. It used an ad-hoc mechanic for something that was inherently magical. That makes no sense. Moving it to a spell makes a LOT more sense, reducing the number of ad-hoc mechanics.
Only because you want it to. It's just as valid to say that all magical abilities are spells of some sort, since spells are the consistent mechanic (as opposed to ad-hoc mechanics) that the game gives for magic. Reducing things from a bunch of ad-hoc magical mechanics PLUS spells, to making spells be the mechanic for all magic is a good and simplifying design choice ...and not one that is unique to One D&D.
Again I point out that they're going in completely the opposite direction with monster stat blocks, and phasing out spells in favor of "ad-hoc magical mechanics"
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
And I agree that that shift with monsters is a bad thing. That doesn't mean it's a bad thing to move character mechanics toward "all magical abilities use spell mechanics."
I think this is easily the answer. Something to keep in mind for OneD&D is that it's not simply meant as an update to 5e, but also is intended to make the game run more smoothly through D&DBeyond and the upcoming official VTT. Turning these class features means that, if you buy the physical book, there's more flipping to the back for the spell lists in order to utilize these features, but for DDB that consolidates class features in one location, and also simplifies adding new, similar features in the future. Now instead of needing to code a separate class feature and decide where it will appear on the character sheet, it just gets added to your spell list.
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Only if you view homogeneity as a positive regardless of context
Saying it "makes things simpler" -- even if I granted it were true, which I don't -- isn't the same as saying it makes things better. No one's yet offered an explanation for how it actually makes things better
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
So, I guess Dispel Magic will knock out a Warlock's Pact of the Blade (or whatever) now?
dispel magic would already remove your Armor of Agathys and mirror image, so why not a conjured weapon? also, seems like you'd still be holding a bonded magic weapon (only minus the bond).
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
You want to use a 3rd level spell to get rid of a Cantrip that I can cast all day? I'll take that trade.
The casting time is 1 hour. But, the same question applies to anti-magic field, etc.
EDIT: Correction - pact weapon is just an action - I was thinking it was an hour like the other two.
Homogeneity of mechanics (as in "Unified Mechanics") is a positive thing, yes. (Homogeneity of flavor/fluff is entirely different)
And simplicity (when it follows the _actual_ principles of minimalism) is better than needless complexity. And the complexity they're reducing is definitely not needed.
You would also lose your ability to fight with you caster stat and your proficiency with the weapon.
I'm about to blow your mind but - Warlocks get subclass features too! Crazy, I know.
This.
Until next turn. Meanwhile, you lost a limited resource in order to counter an unlimited resource.