Sure, I wasn't really focused on that aspect, but rather the kind of character experience people who are into unarmed combat are looking for. So if Im someone who loves unarmed combat because "my body is my weapon ", having part of it tied to something easily taken away might diminish that enjoyment.
My points were:
Even if the wraps are taken away, with Martial Arts their body is still their weapon. As opposed to other martial characters who are absolutely boned without their weapon, or even a caster without their focus.
Since the wraps would be “worn” and not “held,” monks would gain the additional advantages of:
They would pretty much always have both their magical bonuses and two free hands with which to do other things since they would never need to stow their handwraps.
It would be a heck of a lot harder (read nigh impossible) to take the monks wraps away from them compared to another martial character’s weapons, or even a caster’s focus.
Woudnt adding +1, +2 and +3 handwraps as magic "weapons" solve weapon issue? I think Haravikk has an excellent point in that we are dancing around the problem if we are trying to encourage using fists by making other options less effective.
The monks unarmed attacks should only be competing with non magical versions of weapons.
It's a crutch, not a solution. A whole weapon category just for one class? Lame. You shouldn't view fists as "pseudo-weapons". Look at it like an Eldritch Blast, but with knuckles.
How is that not a solution when the problem is literally that magic weapons exist?
It's also not for just one class; anyone can make unarmed strikes regardless of class, and there are plenty of races that can deal d6 damage on unarmed strikes so it's only weaker for other classes at higher levels (which magic unarmed weapons would help with).
You can't solve an equipment related problem using class features, as they don't have guaranteed scaling in line with one another; equipment and class progression are entirely separate, even the DMG guidelines are pretty loose.
Even if that weren't the case, what are the options? Something like Sharpen the Blade from Way of Kensei could give you the magic weapon bonus (+1, +2, or +3) but none of the more unusual and unique effects that proper magic items give you access to. It should be possible to play an unarmed Monk without losing access to that extra variety and versatility as they currently do. We already have issues with attunement since our only AC boosting magic item options all require attunement (unlike +1/2/3 magic armor).
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Monk needs a fighting style. Pugilist When not welding any weapons, the character gets a +2 to their Unarmed Attack damage.
Without MA weapons using MA die after level 5 Unarmed attacks will be doing more damage than most weapons on their list.
Monks Will most likely be using 4 out of their 5 ASIs to increase both DEX and WIS for AC, to hit and damage bonus and DC saves for monk abilities. This will result in lower CON (HP) - an optional reason to get MONKS D10 HD.
With Martial Arts - Dexterous Attacks. Will DEX replace STR for the SAVES for Shove and Grapple?
Why only one instance of Unarmored movement?
Why can't Defect Missile become Deflect attacks and affect both ranged and melee attacks (Blocking or pushing a strike aside to lessen the damage.)
Changing the name to Discipline Points does not fix the fact that the monk has too few of their spendable resources at lower levels.
And a thought of the monkish College of Dance BARD. ====== A full caster (Cantrips and Bardic Inspiration and a spendable resource) AND getting Higher damage die for their unarmed attacks faster than a monk AND ability to give both Self and an ally a free disengage (Inspiring Movement prevents attacks of Opportunity) Ability to share evasion with no actions or resource cost. Share an initiative boost. AND a free use of a spell to charm a target and have it not be able to leave its square, Get Disadvantage on Dex saves, and attack rolls, and others have advantage to attack the creature.
Also I think the two handed restriction to use DEX instead of STR on simple weapons is not needed. Spear and quarterstaff do d8 (WM lets you use d8 one handed). And the feature is restricted to Simple Weapons anyway so even if you could get martial proficiency you still couldn’t use DEX on two handed martial weapons.
That restriction doesn't affect the Spear nor the Quarterstaff. It only affects the Greatclub. The restriction isn't on "using a weapon two handed" (like a bladesinger's restriction). The restriction is on weapons with the Two Handed property... which neither Spear nor Quarterstaff have. They're Versatile, not Two Handed.
I understand that. What I meant was spear and quarterstaff can do d8 so giving Dex to greatclub shouldn’t be an issue. The greatclub is the only melee weapon that monks are proficient with that can’t use Dex. Adding it in isn’t going to break the game. I guess I could have explained it better.
Not a solution to what exactly? Fists are pseudo weapons, how are they not? They use the exact same mechanics as weapons, only they (mostly) cant be upgraded with gear. What would you suggest, if not some kind of "fist weapon"?
You're trying to hammer monks into the same mold as other martials. Like I said, take a look at warlocks, they function well with their invocation-modified Eldritch Blast + Hex. Yeah there's Rod of the Pact Keeper, but it only increases attack roll by +3.
How is that not a solution when the problem is literally that magic weapons exist?
It's also not for just one class; anyone can make unarmed strikes regardless of class, and there are plenty of races that can deal d6 damage on unarmed strikes so it's only weaker for other classes at higher levels (which magic unarmed weapons would help with).
You can't solve an equipment related problem using class features, as they don't have guaranteed scaling in line with one another; equipment and class progression are entirely separate, even the DMG guidelines are pretty loose.
Even if that weren't the case, what are the options? Something like Sharpen the Blade from Way of Kensei could give you the magic weapon bonus (+1, +2, or +3) but none of the more unusual and unique effects that proper magic items give you access to. It should be possible to play an unarmed Monk without losing access to that extra variety and versatility as they currently do. We already have issues with attunement since our only AC boosting magic item options all require attunement (unlike +1/2/3 magic armor).
Spellcasters have always existed without caring for magical weapons and never really complained about lack of efficiency.
In martial arts, even fantasy like movies, having a weapon is usually better than bare hands, not so much as other martials of course, but helps. It is when is a real master (high MA damage die, the typical kung-fu master) when really usually fight only with bare hands. With no need of any weapon.
I'd like integration of monk weapons and them to be useful up to certain level. And if you get good magical ones, be able to take advantage of it. It is very typical to see MA using weapons, ninja with katana and shuriken, or Bruce Lee with the nunchaku, double kunai/sai (Dagger), and etc.
Don't think that MA users can do anything at full potential with only their body from start, that is something you could do when mastering the MA. And, in any case, compared to normal or low powered items. Trying to equate the only body to +2 or +3 equipment for free is excesive, specially in 5E.
Also I think the two handed restriction to use DEX instead of STR on simple weapons is not needed. Spear and quarterstaff do d8 (WM lets you use d8 one handed). And the feature is restricted to Simple Weapons anyway so even if you could get martial proficiency you still couldn’t use DEX on two handed martial weapons.
That restriction doesn't affect the Spear nor the Quarterstaff. It only affects the Greatclub. The restriction isn't on "using a weapon two handed" (like a bladesinger's restriction). The restriction is on weapons with the Two Handed property... which neither Spear nor Quarterstaff have. They're Versatile, not Two Handed.
I understand that. What I meant was spear and quarterstaff can do d8 so giving Dex to greatclub shouldn’t be an issue. The greatclub is the only melee weapon that monks are proficient with that can’t use Dex. Adding it in isn’t going to break the game. I guess I could have explained it better.
What I'd do is allow to apply the monk weapon features to any you are proficient but maybe those with Heavy property, which would use Str.
It's a shame also that monks cannot do anything with their Str more than for mobility, for checks Str (athleticism). Then as you need it for other important things, allow to make use of it for their MA stuff. Maybe adding something like reducing your Str bonus to damage for unarmored defense.
The AC continues to be an issue as it hardly improves unless developing a plain character, only increasing stats not getting any feat for a diversity of gameplay styles, reducing completely its options for play.
Not a solution to what exactly? Fists are pseudo weapons, how are they not? They use the exact same mechanics as weapons, only they (mostly) cant be upgraded with gear. What would you suggest, if not some kind of "fist weapon"?
You're trying to hammer monks into the same mold as other martials. Like I said, take a look at warlocks, they function well with their invocation-modified Eldritch Blast + Hex. Yeah there's Rod of the Pact Keeper, but it only increases attack roll by +3.
If what you are suggesting is an invocation-inspired system for the monk, Id certainly be very happy with that as well. I do think itd still be best for more gear to directly support monks though.
Spellcasters have always existed without caring for magical weapons and never really complained about lack of efficiency.
Magical focuses are the spellcasters' equivalent to magic weapons, as these boost attack rolls and/or spell save DC. There are literally dozens of items restricted to specific spellcasting classes, so why are you opposed to items for unarmed combat?
The fact that spellcasters are powerful without them is another separate issue; martials in general, especially pure martials (non half-casters) need stronger class features to compete against spellcasting, as spellcasting is essentially multiple very good class features with a tonne of versatility (due to spell selection). Many martials by comparison can only really do a handful of things, and not so well that they are clearly superior to the spellcaster at these; with the right spells a caster can be as good if not better at melee and ranged damage dealing, and without being so resource reliant that running out ever really becomes a problem for them. Even if you need two spells per fight that will cover most adventuring days without running out.
Imbalance between unarmed and weapons is a separate issue that also needs addressing, but if the imbalance is because magic weapons are better than unarmed equivalents, then what we need is better unarmed equivalents. If you run 5e without magic items, a Monk's unarmed damage stacks up just fine against most weapon-focused characters, especially with the slight boost of starting with a d6 and increasing to d12. It's only when you introduce magic weapons that unarmed becomes disadvantaged.
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I haven’t read thru all 13 pages (yet) so if this (obvious to me) change has been suggested between pages 2&13 I apologize, but one thing other than upping the martial arts die damage that would really help would be moving Ki empowered strikes to L3 and then adding the +1 at level 6, the +2 at L12 and the +3 at L18. No need for wraps etc and it puts them at least on a par ( more or less) with caster ( magic weapon at L3) and artificers (enhance weapon infusion at L2/3) as well as allowing them to hit resistant creatures for full damage at about the same time magic weapons start showing up in loot.
There are a variety of playstyles players would like to use Monk for: Hit&Run; Ranged; Front line Melee; and Grappler. Some players have the opinion that one or more of these styles should not be allowed for the base Monk class. The reality is that UA6 does not support ANY of these styles. Hit&Run is "best" supported by requiring spending 1 Point a turn and your bonus action, negating your offence. Some sublasses (Shadow/Elemental) or feats (Tavern Brawler) have a more reliable way to get out of bad spots. Monks can survive in melee temporarily by spending 1 Point a turn and your bonus action. Otherwise they get knocked out fast (low HP, medium AC, etc). Focusing on just the first 2 Levels, here are my suggested fixes.
The UA6 wording of Bonus Unarmed Strike allows loopholes like attacking with a Handaxe, Dagger (Nick), and Unarmed Strike at Level 1. The simple fix is to give Monk's Unarmed Strikes the Light weapon property. This lowers the LVL 1 attack damage from 2d6+2*DEX (13) to 2d6+DEX (10), but Deflect Attack will increase the damage.
In both 5E and UA6, Monks could best be described as "Glass Cannons" with low survivability at Level 1. Some may point out that Patient Defense at LVL 2 offsets this for a couple of turns but I would rather avoid rehashing this argument. The simple change is moving Deflect Missiles at Level 3 to Deflect Attack at Level 1 which greatly helps survivabilty. With these changes, a Level 1 Monks damage changes from 2*MA+2*DEX to 3*MA+DEX. These are roughly equal numbers, but make the Martial Arts dice more important.
To support Monk grappling, allow DEX and/or WIS to be used for computing the DC for Unarmed Strike Grapple and Shove. This means a Level 1 Monk could plausibly Grapple+Shove Prone an enemy in a single turn. Would this change satisfy the players who would like a STR based Monk?
At Level 2, a Monk has a lot of options for their BA. To free up the BA, give the Unarmed Strike the Nick property. This occurring at Level 2 discourages tempting multiclassing. At a higher level this could be switched to a different mastery.
In Tier 1, a Monk has insufficient Discipline Points. A big fight that lasts 5 rounds will cause the Monk to run out of resources halfway through the fight. I feel the Shadow Monk and Elemental Monk have the right idea of "Spend 1 Point to have [EFFECT] for 10 Minutes". Base Monk could have the following at Level 2. Flurry of Blows: Spend 1 Point to be able to make an Unarmed Strike as a Bonus Action for the next 10 Minutes. Patient Defense: Spend 1 Point to be able to Dodge as a Bonus Action for the next 10 minutes. Step of the Wind: Spend 1 Point to be able to Disengage and Dash as a Bonus Action for the next 10 minutes. The total number of Points and Short Rest recovery would need to be adjusted. Some subclass features would need to be rewritten.
Okay here is another shot at fixing the Monk based on this UA:
1st Level Martial Arts should include multiple attack choices that use different die sizes that grow with your normal Martial Arts die. You must declare which attack you are using before the attack roll.
Precise Strike: You get +5 to the attack roll but use 1d2. This becomes a d4 at 5th, d6 at 11th and a d8 at 17th
Vexing Strike: You gain advantage on your next attack but use 1d4. This becomes a d6 at 5th, d8 at 11th, and d10 at 17th
Telegraphed Strike: If you don’t have disadvantage you may take disadvantage on the attack roll, if it hits you don’t roll damage instead you deal the maximum amount of damage.
1st Level Unarmored Defense becomes an option between 2 choices. Wind’s Grace (Dex + Wis AC) like we are use to seeing, or Iron Body (Con + Wis AC) to create the avenue for Str based Monks and or tanky pure Con monks, although it will be much harder for monks who take this path to multiclass out of Monk. Still would require Dex 13, Wis13 for multiclass. You could change which chioce you made whenever you gain a level in monk.
3rd Level would give the choice between Deflect Missiles (unchanged) or Absorb Blow which works as a reaction against melee attacks that are bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing and reduce the damage by 1d10 + Con. If you reduce the damage to zero you can spend 1 discipline point to retaliate with an unarmed strike if the attacker is within range. Can change choice when you gain a level in this class.
5th would fix Stunning Strike by having it once a turn like this UA, but it causes dazed condition on a failed save that last until the end of your next turn unless the target is already dazed or failed the save by more than 10. If either of those conditions are met it causes the target to be stunned until the end of your next turn. If you use stunning strike on a creature that already has the stunned condition they automatically succeed the save, but take force damage equal to one roll of your MA dice. Additionally any creature that succeeds on a save against stunning strike has disadvantage on its next save against stunning strike.
7th would be a choice between Evasion (as in the UA) or Focused Strength: You can add Wis to you (Str) Athletics checks and Str saving throws. Additionally you have advantage on any saving throw to avoid forced movement or being knocked prone.
13th would be a choice between Deflect Energy(as in the UA) and Absorb Energy: when you would make Dex save to avoid or take half damage you may make a Con save instead. Anytime you succeed on a Con save and would take half damage you take no damage instead. Can change choice when you gain a level in this class.
I've just looked at the Expert Classes UA, and apparently a bunch of feats that could benefit the monk require "proficiency with any martial weapon", thus disqualifying them (without multiclassing/species feature/other feats). This includes charger, dual wielder, mage slayer and sentinel (and also crossbow expert and sharpshooter, which aren't as relevant, but could also possibly work). This sucks.
Indeed what we can see in many movies are MA users handling double swords (scimitar/rapier), chains (that could be whip), Nodachi (2 handed sword), longbows, etc.
So not clear why they refuse to give the monk the martial weapons proficiency. Damn is a Warrior, why so reticent?
Good point, probably I'll give monks martial weapons proficiency in any case to be able to get what are supposed to be Warrior feats.
I'm fine with having kensei be the only monk subclass to have access to more weapons, so after taking the sublass at level 3 you could have more feats available at level 4 and onward (it is a shame that the UA doesn't include the kensei). However, many of these feats could fit just as well with the monk's MA, so I would either change the feat requirements to be "proficiency with any martial weapon or martial arts feature" or even "proficiency with any martial weapon or warrior group" (also allowing for some future non-core warrior class), or alternatively let the monk have a class feature which allows them to ignore the requirement of proficiency with martial weapon for the purpose of selecting a feat. I'm kinda expecting this is going to be the case in practice anyway, if not fixed by later revisions. 'Hey DM, can I take this feat even though RAW my character doesn't qualify?' 'sure, go ahead'
Tangentially related, the fact that the weapon training feat is 4th level is wild to me. This should be a 1st level, without the ASI. In fact, I feel like most 4th level feats should be available as 1st level feats withouts ASI, and possibly also the opposite - when you take a 1st level feat at 4th or higher level, it should also grant ASI. In particular fighting style feats. This wouldn't really help the monk - why spend your 1st level feat on proficiency with weapons you cannot use your class features with. But it does seem to give more character customization options without breaking the game (I think), and would ultimately be more fun for the players.
And for a more fantasy scenario, on the classic movie The Young Master (Jackie Chan, 1980) the police was able to use swords (looks like scimitar type) for helping to set order. So the own set in which is based the fantasy MA shows that MA users uses weapons and even martial weapons.
The Ninjas use Katana (would be like longsword), and it fits more to the Shadow Monk.
So not all monks are Kensai, and many of them use martial weapons.
Maybe some limit as Heavy not able to use Dex but for the Kensai who all weapons would be used like monk (allowing all the monk features with any weapon). Many feats and interesting weapon mastery are to be used with Heavy weapons, so it would be that point the Kensai needs but without limiting so much the other monks. Also a subclass Kensai feature could be to gain any "martial" feat at that level, and maybe able to change it at level up.
Another solution could be giving the monk class to choose a martial weapon proficiency each X levels (starting at 1), giving all to Kensai at level 3, so each monk could decide what limited group of weapons wants to use.
I’m fine with monks only having simple weapons. I do think the two handed restriction to use Dex should be removed for Simple Weapons (only affect Greatclub so why leave just one weapon out).
A Dedicated Weapon feature should be added to allow one other weapon to use Dex as long as it isn’t heavy or two handed property, if you have proficiency from somewhere else
Then give Kensei access to all martial weapons (except special property) to use Dex, so they stand out.
If you want an armored monk, that should be a subclass option added down the road.
I don’t see WotC doing any big changes on monk. I was hoping for more but it looks like they are sticking even more closely to the “backwards compatibility” idea too much.
I would like Dex or Discipline DC for Unarmed Strikes shove/grapple. Stunning Strike to be Stunned on failed save, Dazed condition on a successful save. The once per turn wouldn’t sting so much if they added that.
Plus other changes, many discussed in these threads
But I don’t anticipate big changes after the survey comes out. The Four Elements monk was a surprise to see the complete revamp, but I like it with a few tweaks. (Reminds me of some of the ideas I had in a revised 4E I did a while ago on the monk forums)
The two handed weapon I wish they had allowed the monk to use Dex on is the staff, to my mind there is no more iconic “monk” weapon than the staff (Bo/quarter) unless they recreate the 3 section staff - especially as a “hidden” weapon.
I wish they'd just give Monks Deflect Attack, even in melee.
Like, give monks the ability to always counter attack, at the cost of a Reaction, it'll be their built-in niche. But other than just counter attacking, they can queue their extra attacks and/or ki abilities during this reaction. What's a kungfu guy that can't combo hits. You often see in movies how the martial artists keep exchanging deflected hits until someone actually lands the camera-angle-changing blow.
It makes attacking the squishy monk actually risky, they'd deal damage defensively. Then the subclasses can expand on this with all the flavors.
Rogues get Cunning Strike. Let Monks get Cunning Counter.
I wish they'd just give Monks Deflect Attack, even in melee.
Like, give monks the ability to always counter attack, at the cost of a Reaction, it'll be their built-in niche. But other than just counter attacking, they can queue their extra attacks and/or ki abilities during this reaction. What's a kungfu guy that can't combo hits. You often see in movies how the martial artists keep exchanging deflected hits until someone actually lands the camera-angle-changing blow.
It makes attacking the squishy monk actually risky, they'd deal damage defensively. Then the subclasses can expand on this with all the flavors.
Rogues get Cunning Strike. Let Monks get Cunning Counter.
I wish they'd just give Monks Deflect Attack, even in melee.
Like, give monks the ability to always counter attack, at the cost of a Reaction, it'll be their built-in niche. But other than just counter attacking, they can queue their extra attacks and/or ki abilities during this reaction. What's a kungfu guy that can't combo hits. You often see in movies how the martial artists keep exchanging deflected hits until someone actually lands the camera-angle-changing blow.
It makes attacking the squishy monk actually risky, they'd deal damage defensively. Then the subclasses can expand on this with all the flavors.
Rogues get Cunning Strike. Let Monks get Cunning Counter.
I'm on the fence, it sounds cool and is evocative but it may end up slowing the game down too much with too many rolls. But maybe not as you are killing people quicker.
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How is that not a solution when the problem is literally that magic weapons exist?
It's also not for just one class; anyone can make unarmed strikes regardless of class, and there are plenty of races that can deal d6 damage on unarmed strikes so it's only weaker for other classes at higher levels (which magic unarmed weapons would help with).
You can't solve an equipment related problem using class features, as they don't have guaranteed scaling in line with one another; equipment and class progression are entirely separate, even the DMG guidelines are pretty loose.
Even if that weren't the case, what are the options? Something like Sharpen the Blade from Way of Kensei could give you the magic weapon bonus (+1, +2, or +3) but none of the more unusual and unique effects that proper magic items give you access to. It should be possible to play an unarmed Monk without losing access to that extra variety and versatility as they currently do. We already have issues with attunement since our only AC boosting magic item options all require attunement (unlike +1/2/3 magic armor).
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Monk needs a fighting style. Pugilist When not welding any weapons, the character gets a +2 to their Unarmed Attack damage.
Without MA weapons using MA die after level 5 Unarmed attacks will be doing more damage than most weapons on their list.
Monks Will most likely be using 4 out of their 5 ASIs to increase both DEX and WIS for AC, to hit and damage bonus and DC saves for monk abilities. This will result in lower CON (HP) - an optional reason to get MONKS D10 HD.
With Martial Arts - Dexterous Attacks. Will DEX replace STR for the SAVES for Shove and Grapple?
Why only one instance of Unarmored movement?
Why can't Defect Missile become Deflect attacks and affect both ranged and melee attacks (Blocking or pushing a strike aside to lessen the damage.)
Changing the name to Discipline Points does not fix the fact that the monk has too few of their spendable resources at lower levels.
And a thought of the monkish College of Dance BARD. ====== A full caster (Cantrips and Bardic Inspiration and a spendable resource) AND getting Higher damage die for their unarmed attacks faster than a monk AND ability to give both Self and an ally a free disengage (Inspiring Movement prevents attacks of Opportunity) Ability to share evasion with no actions or resource cost. Share an initiative boost. AND a free use of a spell to charm a target and have it not be able to leave its square, Get Disadvantage on Dex saves, and attack rolls, and others have advantage to attack the creature.
I understand that. What I meant was spear and quarterstaff can do d8 so giving Dex to greatclub shouldn’t be an issue. The greatclub is the only melee weapon that monks are proficient with that can’t use Dex. Adding it in isn’t going to break the game. I guess I could have explained it better.
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You're trying to hammer monks into the same mold as other martials. Like I said, take a look at warlocks, they function well with their invocation-modified Eldritch Blast + Hex. Yeah there's Rod of the Pact Keeper, but it only increases attack roll by +3.
Spellcasters have always existed without caring for magical weapons and never really complained about lack of efficiency.
In martial arts, even fantasy like movies, having a weapon is usually better than bare hands, not so much as other martials of course, but helps. It is when is a real master (high MA damage die, the typical kung-fu master) when really usually fight only with bare hands. With no need of any weapon.
I'd like integration of monk weapons and them to be useful up to certain level. And if you get good magical ones, be able to take advantage of it. It is very typical to see MA using weapons, ninja with katana and shuriken, or Bruce Lee with the nunchaku, double kunai/sai (Dagger), and etc.
Don't think that MA users can do anything at full potential with only their body from start, that is something you could do when mastering the MA. And, in any case, compared to normal or low powered items. Trying to equate the only body to +2 or +3 equipment for free is excesive, specially in 5E.
What I'd do is allow to apply the monk weapon features to any you are proficient but maybe those with Heavy property, which would use Str.
It's a shame also that monks cannot do anything with their Str more than for mobility, for checks Str (athleticism). Then as you need it for other important things, allow to make use of it for their MA stuff. Maybe adding something like reducing your Str bonus to damage for unarmored defense.
The AC continues to be an issue as it hardly improves unless developing a plain character, only increasing stats not getting any feat for a diversity of gameplay styles, reducing completely its options for play.
If what you are suggesting is an invocation-inspired system for the monk, Id certainly be very happy with that as well. I do think itd still be best for more gear to directly support monks though.
Magical focuses are the spellcasters' equivalent to magic weapons, as these boost attack rolls and/or spell save DC. There are literally dozens of items restricted to specific spellcasting classes, so why are you opposed to items for unarmed combat?
The fact that spellcasters are powerful without them is another separate issue; martials in general, especially pure martials (non half-casters) need stronger class features to compete against spellcasting, as spellcasting is essentially multiple very good class features with a tonne of versatility (due to spell selection). Many martials by comparison can only really do a handful of things, and not so well that they are clearly superior to the spellcaster at these; with the right spells a caster can be as good if not better at melee and ranged damage dealing, and without being so resource reliant that running out ever really becomes a problem for them. Even if you need two spells per fight that will cover most adventuring days without running out.
Imbalance between unarmed and weapons is a separate issue that also needs addressing, but if the imbalance is because magic weapons are better than unarmed equivalents, then what we need is better unarmed equivalents. If you run 5e without magic items, a Monk's unarmed damage stacks up just fine against most weapon-focused characters, especially with the slight boost of starting with a d6 and increasing to d12. It's only when you introduce magic weapons that unarmed becomes disadvantaged.
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I haven’t read thru all 13 pages (yet) so if this (obvious to me) change has been suggested between pages 2&13 I apologize, but one thing other than upping the martial arts die damage that would really help would be moving Ki empowered strikes to L3 and then adding the +1 at level 6, the +2 at L12 and the +3 at L18. No need for wraps etc and it puts them at least on a par ( more or less) with caster ( magic weapon at L3) and artificers (enhance weapon infusion at L2/3) as well as allowing them to hit resistant creatures for full damage at about the same time magic weapons start showing up in loot.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
There are a variety of playstyles players would like to use Monk for: Hit&Run; Ranged; Front line Melee; and Grappler. Some players have the opinion that one or more of these styles should not be allowed for the base Monk class. The reality is that UA6 does not support ANY of these styles. Hit&Run is "best" supported by requiring spending 1 Point a turn and your bonus action, negating your offence. Some sublasses (Shadow/Elemental) or feats (Tavern Brawler) have a more reliable way to get out of bad spots. Monks can survive in melee temporarily by spending 1 Point a turn and your bonus action. Otherwise they get knocked out fast (low HP, medium AC, etc). Focusing on just the first 2 Levels, here are my suggested fixes.
The UA6 wording of Bonus Unarmed Strike allows loopholes like attacking with a Handaxe, Dagger (Nick), and Unarmed Strike at Level 1. The simple fix is to give Monk's Unarmed Strikes the Light weapon property. This lowers the LVL 1 attack damage from 2d6+2*DEX (13) to 2d6+DEX (10), but Deflect Attack will increase the damage.
In both 5E and UA6, Monks could best be described as "Glass Cannons" with low survivability at Level 1. Some may point out that Patient Defense at LVL 2 offsets this for a couple of turns but I would rather avoid rehashing this argument. The simple change is moving Deflect Missiles at Level 3 to Deflect Attack at Level 1 which greatly helps survivabilty.
With these changes, a Level 1 Monks damage changes from 2*MA+2*DEX to 3*MA+DEX. These are roughly equal numbers, but make the Martial Arts dice more important.
To support Monk grappling, allow DEX and/or WIS to be used for computing the DC for Unarmed Strike Grapple and Shove. This means a Level 1 Monk could plausibly Grapple+Shove Prone an enemy in a single turn. Would this change satisfy the players who would like a STR based Monk?
At Level 2, a Monk has a lot of options for their BA. To free up the BA, give the Unarmed Strike the Nick property. This occurring at Level 2 discourages tempting multiclassing. At a higher level this could be switched to a different mastery.
In Tier 1, a Monk has insufficient Discipline Points. A big fight that lasts 5 rounds will cause the Monk to run out of resources halfway through the fight. I feel the Shadow Monk and Elemental Monk have the right idea of "Spend 1 Point to have [EFFECT] for 10 Minutes". Base Monk could have the following at Level 2.
Flurry of Blows: Spend 1 Point to be able to make an Unarmed Strike as a Bonus Action for the next 10 Minutes.
Patient Defense: Spend 1 Point to be able to Dodge as a Bonus Action for the next 10 minutes.
Step of the Wind: Spend 1 Point to be able to Disengage and Dash as a Bonus Action for the next 10 minutes.
The total number of Points and Short Rest recovery would need to be adjusted. Some subclass features would need to be rewritten.
Okay here is another shot at fixing the Monk based on this UA:
1st Level Martial Arts should include multiple attack choices that use different die sizes that grow with your normal Martial Arts die. You must declare which attack you are using before the attack roll.
1st Level Unarmored Defense becomes an option between 2 choices. Wind’s Grace (Dex + Wis AC) like we are use to seeing, or Iron Body (Con + Wis AC) to create the avenue for Str based Monks and or tanky pure Con monks, although it will be much harder for monks who take this path to multiclass out of Monk. Still would require Dex 13, Wis13 for multiclass. You could change which chioce you made whenever you gain a level in monk.
3rd Level would give the choice between Deflect Missiles (unchanged) or Absorb Blow which works as a reaction against melee attacks that are bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing and reduce the damage by 1d10 + Con. If you reduce the damage to zero you can spend 1 discipline point to retaliate with an unarmed strike if the attacker is within range. Can change choice when you gain a level in this class.
5th would fix Stunning Strike by having it once a turn like this UA, but it causes dazed condition on a failed save that last until the end of your next turn unless the target is already dazed or failed the save by more than 10. If either of those conditions are met it causes the target to be stunned until the end of your next turn. If you use stunning strike on a creature that already has the stunned condition they automatically succeed the save, but take force damage equal to one roll of your MA dice. Additionally any creature that succeeds on a save against stunning strike has disadvantage on its next save against stunning strike.
7th would be a choice between Evasion (as in the UA) or Focused Strength: You can add Wis to you (Str) Athletics checks and Str saving throws. Additionally you have advantage on any saving throw to avoid forced movement or being knocked prone.
13th would be a choice between Deflect Energy(as in the UA) and Absorb Energy: when you would make Dex save to avoid or take half damage you may make a Con save instead. Anytime you succeed on a Con save and would take half damage you take no damage instead. Can change choice when you gain a level in this class.
I've just looked at the Expert Classes UA, and apparently a bunch of feats that could benefit the monk require "proficiency with any martial weapon", thus disqualifying them (without multiclassing/species feature/other feats). This includes charger, dual wielder, mage slayer and sentinel (and also crossbow expert and sharpshooter, which aren't as relevant, but could also possibly work). This sucks.
Indeed what we can see in many movies are MA users handling double swords (scimitar/rapier), chains (that could be whip), Nodachi (2 handed sword), longbows, etc.
So not clear why they refuse to give the monk the martial weapons proficiency. Damn is a Warrior, why so reticent?
Good point, probably I'll give monks martial weapons proficiency in any case to be able to get what are supposed to be Warrior feats.
I'm fine with having kensei be the only monk subclass to have access to more weapons, so after taking the sublass at level 3 you could have more feats available at level 4 and onward (it is a shame that the UA doesn't include the kensei). However, many of these feats could fit just as well with the monk's MA, so I would either change the feat requirements to be "proficiency with any martial weapon or martial arts feature" or even "proficiency with any martial weapon or warrior group" (also allowing for some future non-core warrior class), or alternatively let the monk have a class feature which allows them to ignore the requirement of proficiency with martial weapon for the purpose of selecting a feat. I'm kinda expecting this is going to be the case in practice anyway, if not fixed by later revisions. 'Hey DM, can I take this feat even though RAW my character doesn't qualify?' 'sure, go ahead'
Tangentially related, the fact that the weapon training feat is 4th level is wild to me. This should be a 1st level, without the ASI. In fact, I feel like most 4th level feats should be available as 1st level feats withouts ASI, and possibly also the opposite - when you take a 1st level feat at 4th or higher level, it should also grant ASI. In particular fighting style feats. This wouldn't really help the monk - why spend your 1st level feat on proficiency with weapons you cannot use your class features with. But it does seem to give more character customization options without breaking the game (I think), and would ultimately be more fun for the players.
Even on real life the chinese police used swords:
https://chinesemartialstudies.com/2015/09/07/through-a-lens-darkly-32-the-chinese-police-and-the-romance-of-the-sword/
And for a more fantasy scenario, on the classic movie The Young Master (Jackie Chan, 1980) the police was able to use swords (looks like scimitar type) for helping to set order. So the own set in which is based the fantasy MA shows that MA users uses weapons and even martial weapons.
The Ninjas use Katana (would be like longsword), and it fits more to the Shadow Monk.
So not all monks are Kensai, and many of them use martial weapons.
Maybe some limit as Heavy not able to use Dex but for the Kensai who all weapons would be used like monk (allowing all the monk features with any weapon). Many feats and interesting weapon mastery are to be used with Heavy weapons, so it would be that point the Kensai needs but without limiting so much the other monks. Also a subclass Kensai feature could be to gain any "martial" feat at that level, and maybe able to change it at level up.
Another solution could be giving the monk class to choose a martial weapon proficiency each X levels (starting at 1), giving all to Kensai at level 3, so each monk could decide what limited group of weapons wants to use.
I’m fine with monks only having simple weapons. I do think the two handed restriction to use Dex should be removed for Simple Weapons (only affect Greatclub so why leave just one weapon out).
A Dedicated Weapon feature should be added to allow one other weapon to use Dex as long as it isn’t heavy or two handed property, if you have proficiency from somewhere else
Then give Kensei access to all martial weapons (except special property) to use Dex, so they stand out.
If you want an armored monk, that should be a subclass option added down the road.
I don’t see WotC doing any big changes on monk. I was hoping for more but it looks like they are sticking even more closely to the “backwards compatibility” idea too much.
I would like Dex or Discipline DC for Unarmed Strikes shove/grapple.
Stunning Strike to be Stunned on failed save, Dazed condition on a successful save. The once per turn wouldn’t sting so much if they added that.
Plus other changes, many discussed in these threads
But I don’t anticipate big changes after the survey comes out. The Four Elements monk was a surprise to see the complete revamp, but I like it with a few tweaks. (Reminds me of some of the ideas I had in a revised 4E I did a while ago on the monk forums)
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
The two handed weapon I wish they had allowed the monk to use Dex on is the staff, to my mind there is no more iconic “monk” weapon than the staff (Bo/quarter) unless they recreate the 3 section staff - especially as a “hidden” weapon.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
I wish they'd just give Monks Deflect Attack, even in melee.
Like, give monks the ability to always counter attack, at the cost of a Reaction, it'll be their built-in niche. But other than just counter attacking, they can queue their extra attacks and/or ki abilities during this reaction. What's a kungfu guy that can't combo hits. You often see in movies how the martial artists keep exchanging deflected hits until someone actually lands the camera-angle-changing blow.
It makes attacking the squishy monk actually risky, they'd deal damage defensively. Then the subclasses can expand on this with all the flavors.
Rogues get Cunning Strike. Let Monks get Cunning Counter.
I like this idea a lot.
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I'm on the fence, it sounds cool and is evocative but it may end up slowing the game down too much with too many rolls. But maybe not as you are killing people quicker.