My own idea, to increase their utility and make them less short rest dependent, is to use their move, action, reaction, and bonus action as resources, rather than ki. Ki would still be around, but for more esoteric abilities, like the spell like effects from 4 Elements or Shadow, not their primary abilities.
Firstly, like Ranger they get an extra proficiency at level 1, and an expertise at levels 1 and 9. That will give them some utility out of combat.
Secondly, their AC is set at 10 + 2(dex modifier). Which is to say that at level 8, if you've bumped your dexterity to 20, your AC is also 20, which brings you in line with other martial fighters. It also frees up 3 ASIs to choose feats with (as if there were any worth taking for Monk).
They count their fists as light weapons with the nick weapon mastery, and they always count as having the nick weapon mastery. That means they can always get a free extra attack each turn.
All Monk abilities only function when the Monk is not wearing armor or using a shield.
Bonus action can be used to:
Flurry of blows, prerequisite, must have taken the attack action on this turn. An unarmed strike that scales like a cantrip on Monk levels. At level 17 they can do three fist attacks, and four punches with flurry of blows, with d12+5 damage on each attack. They might not have much else to do, but they can punch really really hard.
Dodge action.
Dash.
Disengage.
Reaction can be used to:
3rd level: Deflect missiles. Reduce damage from ranged attack that do BSP damage by 1d10 + dex modifier + Monk level. If reduced to zero direct it at a creature within 60 feet. They have to make a save against 8 + prof bonus + dexterity modifier or take 2 (martial arts dice) damage. On a successful save they take half damage. At level 11 this can be used against all ranged attacks.
4th level: Slow Fall
5th level: Stunning Strike. When you hit an enemy with an attack you can use your reaction to attempt a "stunning strike". They must make a constitution save against 8 + prof bonus + dexterity modifier or be stunned. If they succeed the save then they are dazed.
Using Monk's wisdom stat can be used for the quasi-magical effects from their subclasses, but their physical abilities in their base class require a save against their dexterity stat.
Like Ranger or Paladin they benefit from a decent mental stat, but they're functional without having to devote resources to it.
To give a bit more OOC utility, we could take a leaf from the Ranger and give the Monk an extra proficiency and one expertise at level 1, and another expertise at level 9.
Perhaps allow the Monk to expend 1 ki to gain advantage on ability checks?
That's another feature I think it could have, becoming a half-expertise. It fits very well with its own improved mobility, not depending others. A better set of proficiencies (Musical Instrument, really?), getting 3 instead 2, a half-Expertise at low level (like the Ranger) granting 1 instead 2 expertises, and another one at medium level.
Just like the Rogue has Reliable Talent unlimited and for free, maybe using 1 Discipline point to focus on the task and apply the same could also be a good feature.
To give a bit more OOC utility, we could take a leaf from the Ranger and give the Monk an extra proficiency and one expertise at level 1, and another expertise at level 9.
Perhaps allow the Monk to expend 1 ki to gain advantage on ability checks?
That's another feature I think it could have, becoming a half-expertise. It fits very well with its own improved mobility, not depending others. A better set of proficiencies (Musical Instrument, really?), getting 3 instead 2, a half-Expertise at low level (like the Ranger) granting 1 instead 2 expertises, and another one at medium level.
Just like the Rogue has Reliable Talent unlimited and for free, maybe using 1 Discipline point to focus on the task and apply the same could also be a good feature.
That's just switching the monk into the expert class group, which is an option but then they need to go all the way and give the monk the same number of expertise options as the other classes (maybe a parallel of the bard with half proficiency to all skills plus some expertise points) now that weapon mastery is not a warrior group exclusive so it no longer defines what being a warrior group member means.
Most battlemaps aren't big enough for them to use their movement speed to the fullest, leaving it as a niche out of combat utility that will come up maybe once every 7 sessions. It's not useless, but it's not good either.
That presumes they’re running in a straight line. If they’re zigzagging between enemies for hit-and-run tactics then the more movement the better.
zigzagging is bad tactics, spreading your damage out is far less effective than concentrating that damage on a single target - note that this is also true of the enemies, so there are definitely times when hitting & running is a bad idea b/c you want to tempt the enemies into spreading their attacks across multiple PC rather than having them concentrate all their attacks onto one member of the party. The only reason to zig-zag was to try to stun multiple enemies on one turn which is no longer possible in One D&D. This also means most likely the party tank is standing in melee with the enemy you are hitting & running from so all you need is to get beyond the reach of that enemy and they will almost certainly attack the party tank rather than you.
Most battlemaps aren't big enough for them to use their movement speed to the fullest, leaving it as a niche out of combat utility that will come up maybe once every 7 sessions. It's not useless, but it's not good either.
That presumes they’re running in a straight line. If they’re zigzagging between enemies for hit-and-run tactics then the more movement the better.
zigzagging is bad tactics, spreading your damage out is far less effective than concentrating that damage on a single target - note that this is also true of the enemies, so there are definitely times when hitting & running is a bad idea b/c you want to tempt the enemies into spreading their attacks across multiple PC rather than having them concentrate all their attacks onto one member of the party. The only reason to zig-zag was to try to stun multiple enemies on one turn which is no longer possible in One D&D. This also means most likely the party tank is standing in melee with the enemy you are hitting & running from so all you need is to get beyond the reach of that enemy and they will almost certainly attack the party tank rather than you.
if the monks don't hide, don't engage at range, aren't expected to stand-and-fight, and won't be locking down the enemy line with stuns, then that doesn't leave much stand-out combat identity except to 'zig zag' around. although, maybe call it engaging quickly with the enemy back lines and soft targets. that sounds like better-than-bad tactics. and it wouldn't take much to emphasize this with game mechanisms. maybe receiving martial arts damage could impose a penalty to a foe's ranged and ranged spell attacks until the end of that foe's next turn. something like half their monk proficiency bonus rounded up. throw off the aim of archers and archmages, harangue hunters, make mangonels miss, disrupt dendritic druids...
monks as light cavalry.
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Most battlemaps aren't big enough for them to use their movement speed to the fullest, leaving it as a niche out of combat utility that will come up maybe once every 7 sessions. It's not useless, but it's not good either.
That presumes they’re running in a straight line. If they’re zigzagging between enemies for hit-and-run tactics then the more movement the better.
zigzagging is bad tactics, spreading your damage out is far less effective than concentrating that damage on a single target - note that this is also true of the enemies, so there are definitely times when hitting & running is a bad idea b/c you want to tempt the enemies into spreading their attacks across multiple PC rather than having them concentrate all their attacks onto one member of the party. The only reason to zig-zag was to try to stun multiple enemies on one turn which is no longer possible in One D&D. This also means most likely the party tank is standing in melee with the enemy you are hitting & running from so all you need is to get beyond the reach of that enemy and they will almost certainly attack the party tank rather than you.
It may not be “good tactics” in all situations, but zigzagging to hit spellcasters and other squishies is clearly what they are intended to do. Don’t shoot the messenger.
New hot take: give the quarterstaff (or spear, or both) the topple or push mastery property instead of the flex. The monk is likely to be wielding them two-handed anyway, and the additional property allows them to get more utility from the attack.
Alternatively, give the monk the Weapon Expert feature like the fighter, possibly at a lower level, because the monk don't get access to the graze and cleave properties
Or don't. This discussion is pretty much treading water at this point.
Topple quarterstaff seems like a reasonable one. At least for what I think of it. I don't really know about the mastery option at this point. Both it and a Fighting Style would be useful.
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"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
So it's basically the opposite of Reckless Attack.
Discipline Attack: Starting at Level 2 when attacking the monk may choose to focus on defense more than dealing damage. Doing so gives you disadvantage on all attacks, but attack rolls agents you, that you can see are made at disadvantage until the end of your next turn.
Or a house rule I've used for some time, patient Defiance cost 0 Ki this gives the monk a leg up at low levels but at high level doesn't matter much.
Monk weapons a chart: I'm thinking, a mini chart of monk exclusive weapons in the monk section and giving the Monk's unarmed strike the Nick Mastery, letting the monk get 4 to 5 strikes with a flurry of blows.
Weapons
Damage
Properties
Mastery
Weight
Cost
Unarmed strike
1D6 Bludgeoning
-
Nick
-
-
3 part staff
1d8 Bludgeoning
Two-Handed
Sap
4 lb.
10 GP
Butterfly sword
1d6 Slashing
Finesse, Light
Nick
2 lb.
10GP
Dao
1d6 Slashing
Finesse, Light
NIck
3 lb
25 Gp
Kama
1d6 Slashing
Light
Vex
2 lb.
5 GP
Nunchaku
1D6 Bludgeoning
Finesse, Light
Sap
2 lb.
10 GP
Naginata
1d6 Slashing
Two-Handed, Reach
Cleave
5 lb.
20 GP
Sai
1d4 Piercing
Finesse, Light
Nick
1 lb.
10 GP
WARRIOR OF THE HANDNow that you give the Monk's Unarmed strike a weapon mastery. A monk Subclass can have the ability to change the weapon mastery of their Unarmed Strike as a bones action like changin up a stance, maybe at higher level switch freely between weapons master types.
Vex seems both very thematic for monk, and leans into their multiple attacks with low damage combat style. I'd just give them that as baseline for unarmed strikes at level 1.
At level 2, all monks should get "Battle focus" : you can spend 1 ki and for the next 10 minutes you can swap the Vex for Nick, Topple, Sap, Slow, Cleave or Graze.
Warrior of the Hand gets to use "Battle focus" for free.
While Kensei gets to use "Battle focus" with their weapons.
Nick and graze are over powered or at the least far superior, meaning all other choices are pointless. Nick would allow 3 attacks at level 2 and graze is guaranteed damage with multiple attacks the monk already has. Monk 4th level and above with +4 Dex would deal 12-16 a round were they missed every attack. The difference is solely based on if they used flurry of blows or not. Having high AC on monsters is meaningless. Any creature concentrating on a spell has to make 3-4 checks even if the monk missed every attack.
I find it strange for people to want Weapon Mastery on unarmed strikes. Weapon Mastery is just a bonus feature, and really very few of them make sense anyway. I just want Martial Arts to compete well with mastery on weapons, as it should be the "mastery" of unarmed strikes IMO.
My biggest problem right now is that most masteries aren't that good, and the system as a whole lacks any depth. A Monk's progression should represent them getting better and better at unarmed, while Weapon Mastery can handle whatever they want to do with weapons.
Then whatever sub-class replaces Kensei (as they presumably won't use that name going forward) can double down on the weapon stuff (or move unarmed-only abilities to weapons etc.).
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When you use Flurry of Blows, Patient Defense, or Step of the Wind, you may spend an extra discipline point to make an additional unarmed attack. At level 11 you may spend two additional discipline points to make two additional attacks, at level 17 you may spend three to make three additional attacks.
It means resource expenditure is a real concern at higher levels, but also lets you scale up better.
Personally it may be better for them to give the bonus action attack the Nick property and reduce the number of hits of Flurry of Blows to 1 from levels 2~10 then give them the 2nd flurry strike at 11th. This allows Monk to PD and SotW without being out-damaged by everyone while also not unbalancing it.
Most battlemaps aren't big enough for them to use their movement speed to the fullest, leaving it as a niche out of combat utility that will come up maybe once every 7 sessions. It's not useless, but it's not good either.
That presumes they’re running in a straight line. If they’re zigzagging between enemies for hit-and-run tactics then the more movement the better.
zigzagging is bad tactics, spreading your damage out is far less effective than concentrating that damage on a single target - note that this is also true of the enemies, so there are definitely times when hitting & running is a bad idea b/c you want to tempt the enemies into spreading their attacks across multiple PC rather than having them concentrate all their attacks onto one member of the party. The only reason to zig-zag was to try to stun multiple enemies on one turn which is no longer possible in One D&D. This also means most likely the party tank is standing in melee with the enemy you are hitting & running from so all you need is to get beyond the reach of that enemy and they will almost certainly attack the party tank rather than you.
if the monks don't hide, don't engage at range, aren't expected to stand-and-fight, and won't be locking down the enemy line with stuns, then that doesn't leave much stand-out combat identity except to 'zig zag' around. although, maybe call it engaging quickly with the enemy back lines and soft targets. that sounds like better-than-bad tactics. and it wouldn't take much to emphasize this with game mechanisms. maybe receiving martial arts damage could impose a penalty to a foe's ranged and ranged spell attacks until the end of that foe's next turn. something like half their monk proficiency bonus rounded up. throw off the aim of archers and archmages, harangue hunters, make mangonels miss, disrupt dendritic druids...
monks as light cavalry.
I like this. If zig zagging around the map is a bad idea for damage dealers make them controllers where hitting multiple targets is ideal.
Let us think about new things instead of redesigning the same features.
How about spending KI for self Buffing:
things that activate with Ki without consuming action economy (I think monk is the class with the most bonus actions options in the game)
concentration relying buffs (a different kind of resource not used by Monk)
Temp HP (could solve AC/HP Die concerns) Represented as ki armor or focus that reduces damage (like when they focus and get hit without flinching on demonstrations)
Something CC-like?
Monastic secret arts(fighting style/divine order), you could easily add a vital feature of a sub-class here to make the monk whole. (would solve versatility and variation).
unarmed attacks for monks should be light attacks, like, come on; no weapon is lighter than your trained fist
the above can be represented by replacing 1d6 with 2d4 and the like, raising the floor, and compensating for the lack of effect of unarmed strike vs. magical weapons, this would make the hard choice of dmg vs. magic weapon effects
Wise monk cultural discipline (for skills and tools)
Joke (or not), give them Ki blast style cantrip or Hadouken or Kamehameha. Lol, sun Monk had it; it should be core class lol
The monk is represented in many different ways, and this is why we are having such a hard time trying to FIX the monk when I don't think it's broken. To me, it just lacks more options for choosing features to adjust to the different play styles
All groups got hybrid classes, but I think the monk is the hybrid of the warriors, so a touch of spellcasting/mystic power using ki and some expertise-like ability would fill the role.
In an attempt to make this monk work in SOME way I have figured out why Heightened Metabolism is not a lower level feature. In its current wording it does not just recover ki, it allows you to completely benefit from a short rest. This means that you can spend hit dice and also recover other features in addition to your ki. This lead me to think about the other warriors the Barbarian and the fighter. Now Barbarian is a powerful class, but much like the monk it doesn't really continue to scale past level 9 all that well with Brutal critical doing good damage when it procs but only having a 10% chance IF the barbarian is reckless attacking. The Fighter is really the guy that continues to scale well with a 3rd extra attack at level 11. So I looked at some of the monk issues and what multi-classing could do with this new monk.
First Heightened Metabolism is almost a build around feature, being able to get ANY short rest ability back in 1 minute is huge. Second the biggest issues monks face is damage scaling into level 11, survivability in melee and the fact that they do not qualify for most of the martial feats because they all require proficiency with a martial weapon. Monk takes advantage of all of that by going fighter. 7 monk 1 fighter would delay the ASI, but it would give Monk proficiency with martial weapons (Which it can't use without doing weapon juggling) but this does allow them to qualify for the feats now. In addition, fighter provides 1 extra weapon mastery and a fighting style. The fighting style you could take could be archery OR two weapon fighting. Two weapon fighting would mean all the nick simple weapons would be much more effective and efficient allowing the monk to attack 5 times once with a simple light weapon with nick giving them a free attack with another light weapon (this could be martial as long as the monk stowed it after the attack) and then 3 unarmed attacks (2 from Flurry). for 1d4+1d6+3d8+20 at level 8. Then at level 9 the monk could either go a monk level and pick up Defensive duelist because it now qualifies helping it with the survival issue since it could now use its reaction for a quick +4 to AC, OR it could pick up another fighter level and gain Action surge which recovers with Heightened Metabolism and would allow 7 attacks on the first turn of combat, or it could pick up the Duel wielder feat allowing for the second attack to be ANY finesse one handed weapon martial weapon OR any simple weapon Such as rapier or Mace. By level 12 the Monk/Fighter could have a 20 Dex 16 wisdom with the duel wielder and defensive duelist feats, have 8 Ki points that recover with Heightened Metabolism, action surge that recovers with Heightened Metabolism, Battle Master Maneuvers which recover with Heightened Metabolism. And be on its way to either picking up more monk levels for mobility and subclass features or looking to multi-class again.
This does highlight again how little the monk gets at higher levels as multi-classing after 7 seems to be best.
Just to look at a level 11 where the Monk took 3 levels of fighter. The first round of combat would be 7 attacks one with an unarmed strike drawing a dagger, extra attack with the dagger drawing the short sword, then attack with the short sword thanks to nick and stow the short sword, then action surge 2 unarmed strikes, bonus action flurry of blows for 2 unarmed strikes and spend Superiority dice and 1 ki for stunning strike.
This would be 1d4+1d6+5d8+28xto hit chance + Battle master maneuvers+ stunning strike attempt with the defensive duelist feat for a reactionary +4 to AC and an AC of 17. Compared to the level 11 straight monk which would 4d10+20*hit chance (which will be 5% better due to higher dex for 1 more level) and an AC of 18. (Subsequent rounds the straight monk stays the same, while the Multi-class monk drops to just 1d4+1d6+3d8+20*chance to hit). Level 12 straight monk bumps to 19 AC, multi-class bumps to 18 AC and gains duel wielder feat doing more damage and brings their chance to hit up and their first round bonus damage to +35 and bumps to +25 on every round after the first and bumps the 1d6 into a d8. After 4 levels fighter 8 levels monk the player could continue monk and get the water walking and the bonus action removal of poison stuff and the subclass feature and martial arts die bump or could multi class again with both cleric and druid being decent options to gain more short rest recovery abilities. Either way I feel 4 levels of fighter gives a lot to Monk.
Another great feat for monk would be mage slayer, especially if you are using its mobility to shut down the pesty squishy casters (who also likely have a lower con save for more reliable stunning strikes).
(Ultimately I think a big part of the reason Monk struggles for a bit after level 7 is what they get. 8 they get an ASI like everyone, 9 they get more mobility which they are already good at 10, they get a situational ability to get rid of some bad debuffs. 11 they get a subclass feature, which if you look at the ones here... they all add more mobility.... which monks were already good at and onto 12 with another ASI. That is 4 levels of getting better at something you didn't need to be better at. 13 and 14 are further defensive buffs, 15 does nothing unless you some how spent 15 disc points, spent a minute to recover all 15 and then spent them ALL again without being able to take a short rest, and then it is very little. 16 another asi, basically everything above 8 is a barren waste land unless you feel you need MORE mobility and defenses. Which, once you get your offense up by multi-classing, can be appealing.
Personally it may be better for them to give the bonus action attack the Nick property and reduce the number of hits of Flurry of Blows to 1 from levels 2~10 then give them the 2nd flurry strike at 11th. This allows Monk to PD and SotW without being out-damaged by everyone while also not unbalancing it.
Respectfully, no.
First off, unarmed strikes aren't limited to their hands. You can kick, elbow, or headbutt with ease. The entire point of the Nick property is they get to make an additional weapon attack while freeing up that bonus action. If you're going to give a monk's unarmed strikes the Nick mastery, then you're essentially saying weapons are meaningless. No, really, here's one handaxe attack and then nothing but unarmed strikes because they hit harder and deal force damage. The only thing your change does is let them add their Dexterity to the additional attack; rather than acquire Two Weapon Fighting Style via a background feat. They can't benefit from Nick twice, so your proposal looks like a nerf.
Second, the ability of the monk to throttle its damage dealt, maneuverability, and survivability is powerful. It's empowering by giving the player a meaningful choice to exercise. I can't believe I still have to say this in 2023, but damage isn't everything. It should not be the metric all classes are held to because they weren't designed that way. Now, don't get me wrong, damage is important to a fight. It's how you stop most enemies. A rogue can still dish out more than a monk at most levels, and it does so with a single all-or-nothing attack. The playtest is also giving rogues Cunning Strikes, which sacrifice some of that damage for debuffs. This new mechanic offers a lot of tactical depth by allowing the rogue to sacrifice as many as nine of its ten potential Sneak Attack dice for a variety of effects. Both classes are being set up to throttle damage output in the form of tactical options.
How does your proposal fit within the established paradigm, of what is essentially opportunity cost, or do you reject it outright in favor of external pressures?
I think the real question we should be asking is do these "discipline point" costs remain meaningful choices throughout the monk's career? Should choices like Flurry of Blows, Patient Defense, and Step of the Wind grow stronger in the same way Deflect Missiles evolves to include Deflect Energy? And if so, what should those other evolutions look like?
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There's a decent number of monsters with ranged energy attacks. It's not spectacular, but it does have an effect.
That's another feature I think it could have, becoming a half-expertise. It fits very well with its own improved mobility, not depending others. A better set of proficiencies (Musical Instrument, really?), getting 3 instead 2, a half-Expertise at low level (like the Ranger) granting 1 instead 2 expertises, and another one at medium level.
Just like the Rogue has Reliable Talent unlimited and for free, maybe using 1 Discipline point to focus on the task and apply the same could also be a good feature.
That's just switching the monk into the expert class group, which is an option but then they need to go all the way and give the monk the same number of expertise options as the other classes (maybe a parallel of the bard with half proficiency to all skills plus some expertise points) now that weapon mastery is not a warrior group exclusive so it no longer defines what being a warrior group member means.
zigzagging is bad tactics, spreading your damage out is far less effective than concentrating that damage on a single target - note that this is also true of the enemies, so there are definitely times when hitting & running is a bad idea b/c you want to tempt the enemies into spreading their attacks across multiple PC rather than having them concentrate all their attacks onto one member of the party. The only reason to zig-zag was to try to stun multiple enemies on one turn which is no longer possible in One D&D. This also means most likely the party tank is standing in melee with the enemy you are hitting & running from so all you need is to get beyond the reach of that enemy and they will almost certainly attack the party tank rather than you.
if the monks don't hide, don't engage at range, aren't expected to stand-and-fight, and won't be locking down the enemy line with stuns, then that doesn't leave much stand-out combat identity except to 'zig zag' around. although, maybe call it engaging quickly with the enemy back lines and soft targets. that sounds like better-than-bad tactics. and it wouldn't take much to emphasize this with game mechanisms. maybe receiving martial arts damage could impose a penalty to a foe's ranged and ranged spell attacks until the end of that foe's next turn. something like half their monk proficiency bonus rounded up. throw off the aim of archers and archmages, harangue hunters, make mangonels miss, disrupt dendritic druids...
monks as light cavalry.
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
It may not be “good tactics” in all situations, but zigzagging to hit spellcasters and other squishies is clearly what they are intended to do. Don’t shoot the messenger.
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New hot take: give the quarterstaff (or spear, or both) the topple or push mastery property instead of the flex. The monk is likely to be wielding them two-handed anyway, and the additional property allows them to get more utility from the attack.
Alternatively, give the monk the Weapon Expert feature like the fighter, possibly at a lower level, because the monk don't get access to the graze and cleave properties
Or don't. This discussion is pretty much treading water at this point.
Topple quarterstaff seems like a reasonable one. At least for what I think of it. I don't really know about the mastery option at this point. Both it and a Fighting Style would be useful.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
A few suggestions:
So it's basically the opposite of Reckless Attack.
Discipline Attack: Starting at Level 2 when attacking the monk may choose to focus on defense more than dealing damage. Doing so gives you disadvantage on all attacks, but attack rolls agents you, that you can see are made at disadvantage until the end of your next turn.
Or a house rule I've used for some time, patient Defiance cost 0 Ki this gives the monk a leg up at low levels but at high level doesn't matter much.
Monk weapons a chart: I'm thinking, a mini chart of monk exclusive weapons in the monk section and giving the Monk's unarmed strike the Nick Mastery, letting the monk get 4 to 5 strikes with a flurry of blows.
Weapons
Damage
Properties
Mastery
Weight
Cost
Unarmed strike
1D6 Bludgeoning
-
Nick
-
-
3 part staff
1d8 Bludgeoning
Two-Handed
Sap
4 lb.
10 GP
Butterfly sword
1d6 Slashing
Finesse, Light
Nick
2 lb.
10GP
Dao
1d6 Slashing
Finesse, Light
NIck
3 lb
25 Gp
Kama
1d6 Slashing
Light
Vex
2 lb.
5 GP
Nunchaku
1D6 Bludgeoning
Finesse, Light
Sap
2 lb.
10 GP
Naginata
1d6 Slashing
Two-Handed, Reach
Cleave
5 lb.
20 GP
Sai
1d4 Piercing
Finesse, Light
Nick
1 lb.
10 GP
WARRIOR OF THE HAND Now that you give the Monk's Unarmed strike a weapon mastery. A monk Subclass can have the ability to change the weapon mastery of their Unarmed Strike as a bones action like changin up a stance, maybe at higher level switch freely between weapons master types.
Vex seems both very thematic for monk, and leans into their multiple attacks with low damage combat style. I'd just give them that as baseline for unarmed strikes at level 1.
At level 2, all monks should get "Battle focus" : you can spend 1 ki and for the next 10 minutes you can swap the Vex for Nick, Topple, Sap, Slow, Cleave or Graze.
Warrior of the Hand gets to use "Battle focus" for free.
While Kensei gets to use "Battle focus" with their weapons.
Nick and graze are over powered or at the least far superior, meaning all other choices are pointless. Nick would allow 3 attacks at level 2 and graze is guaranteed damage with multiple attacks the monk already has. Monk 4th level and above with +4 Dex would deal 12-16 a round were they missed every attack. The difference is solely based on if they used flurry of blows or not. Having high AC on monsters is meaningless. Any creature concentrating on a spell has to make 3-4 checks even if the monk missed every attack.
I find it strange for people to want Weapon Mastery on unarmed strikes. Weapon Mastery is just a bonus feature, and really very few of them make sense anyway. I just want Martial Arts to compete well with mastery on weapons, as it should be the "mastery" of unarmed strikes IMO.
My biggest problem right now is that most masteries aren't that good, and the system as a whole lacks any depth. A Monk's progression should represent them getting better and better at unarmed, while Weapon Mastery can handle whatever they want to do with weapons.
Then whatever sub-class replaces Kensei (as they presumably won't use that name going forward) can double down on the weapon stuff (or move unarmed-only abilities to weapons etc.).
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Seconded. At bare minimum, I'd like to see Dexterity for grappling and a third unarmed strike for Flurry of Blows at 11th level.
And my money is on Astral Self getting a redesign as the 4th subclass because it already has Deflect Energy.
I'd be tempted by something like
Improved Flurry of Blows (Level 5)
When you use Flurry of Blows, Patient Defense, or Step of the Wind, you may spend an extra discipline point to make an additional unarmed attack. At level 11 you may spend two additional discipline points to make two additional attacks, at level 17 you may spend three to make three additional attacks.
It means resource expenditure is a real concern at higher levels, but also lets you scale up better.
Personally it may be better for them to give the bonus action attack the Nick property and reduce the number of hits of Flurry of Blows to 1 from levels 2~10 then give them the 2nd flurry strike at 11th. This allows Monk to PD and SotW without being out-damaged by everyone while also not unbalancing it.
I like this. If zig zagging around the map is a bad idea for damage dealers make them controllers where hitting multiple targets is ideal.
Let us think about new things instead of redesigning the same features.
How about spending KI for self Buffing:
Monastic secret arts(fighting style/divine order), you could easily add a vital feature of a sub-class here to make the monk whole. (would solve versatility and variation).
The monk is represented in many different ways, and this is why we are having such a hard time trying to FIX the monk when I don't think it's broken. To me, it just lacks more options for choosing features to adjust to the different play styles
All groups got hybrid classes, but I think the monk is the hybrid of the warriors, so a touch of spellcasting/mystic power using ki and some expertise-like ability would fill the role.
In an attempt to make this monk work in SOME way I have figured out why Heightened Metabolism is not a lower level feature. In its current wording it does not just recover ki, it allows you to completely benefit from a short rest. This means that you can spend hit dice and also recover other features in addition to your ki. This lead me to think about the other warriors the Barbarian and the fighter. Now Barbarian is a powerful class, but much like the monk it doesn't really continue to scale past level 9 all that well with Brutal critical doing good damage when it procs but only having a 10% chance IF the barbarian is reckless attacking. The Fighter is really the guy that continues to scale well with a 3rd extra attack at level 11. So I looked at some of the monk issues and what multi-classing could do with this new monk.
First Heightened Metabolism is almost a build around feature, being able to get ANY short rest ability back in 1 minute is huge. Second the biggest issues monks face is damage scaling into level 11, survivability in melee and the fact that they do not qualify for most of the martial feats because they all require proficiency with a martial weapon. Monk takes advantage of all of that by going fighter. 7 monk 1 fighter would delay the ASI, but it would give Monk proficiency with martial weapons (Which it can't use without doing weapon juggling) but this does allow them to qualify for the feats now. In addition, fighter provides 1 extra weapon mastery and a fighting style. The fighting style you could take could be archery OR two weapon fighting. Two weapon fighting would mean all the nick simple weapons would be much more effective and efficient allowing the monk to attack 5 times once with a simple light weapon with nick giving them a free attack with another light weapon (this could be martial as long as the monk stowed it after the attack) and then 3 unarmed attacks (2 from Flurry). for
1d4+1d6+3d8+20 at level 8. Then at level 9 the monk could either go a monk level and pick up Defensive duelist because it now qualifies helping it with the survival issue since it could now use its reaction for a quick +4 to AC, OR it could pick up another fighter level and gain Action surge which recovers with Heightened Metabolism and would allow 7 attacks on the first turn of combat, or it could pick up the Duel wielder feat allowing for the second attack to be ANY finesse one handed weapon martial weapon OR any simple weapon Such as rapier or Mace. By level 12 the Monk/Fighter could have a 20 Dex 16 wisdom with the duel wielder and defensive duelist feats, have 8 Ki points that recover with Heightened Metabolism, action surge that recovers with Heightened Metabolism, Battle Master Maneuvers which recover with Heightened Metabolism. And be on its way to either picking up more monk levels for mobility and subclass features or looking to multi-class again.
This does highlight again how little the monk gets at higher levels as multi-classing after 7 seems to be best.
Just to look at a level 11 where the Monk took 3 levels of fighter. The first round of combat would be 7 attacks one with an unarmed strike drawing a dagger, extra attack with the dagger drawing the short sword, then attack with the short sword thanks to nick and stow the short sword, then action surge 2 unarmed strikes, bonus action flurry of blows for 2 unarmed strikes and spend Superiority dice and 1 ki for stunning strike.
This would be 1d4+1d6+5d8+28xto hit chance + Battle master maneuvers+ stunning strike attempt with the defensive duelist feat for a reactionary +4 to AC and an AC of 17. Compared to the level 11 straight monk which would 4d10+20*hit chance (which will be 5% better due to higher dex for 1 more level) and an AC of 18. (Subsequent rounds the straight monk stays the same, while the Multi-class monk drops to just 1d4+1d6+3d8+20*chance to hit). Level 12 straight monk bumps to 19 AC, multi-class bumps to 18 AC and gains duel wielder feat doing more damage and brings their chance to hit up and their first round bonus damage to +35 and bumps to +25 on every round after the first and bumps the 1d6 into a d8.
After 4 levels fighter 8 levels monk the player could continue monk and get the water walking and the bonus action removal of poison stuff and the subclass feature and martial arts die bump or could multi class again with both cleric and druid being decent options to gain more short rest recovery abilities. Either way I feel 4 levels of fighter gives a lot to Monk.
Another great feat for monk would be mage slayer, especially if you are using its mobility to shut down the pesty squishy casters (who also likely have a lower con save for more reliable stunning strikes).
(Ultimately I think a big part of the reason Monk struggles for a bit after level 7 is what they get. 8 they get an ASI like everyone, 9 they get more mobility which they are already good at 10, they get a situational ability to get rid of some bad debuffs. 11 they get a subclass feature, which if you look at the ones here... they all add more mobility.... which monks were already good at and onto 12 with another ASI. That is 4 levels of getting better at something you didn't need to be better at. 13 and 14 are further defensive buffs, 15 does nothing unless you some how spent 15 disc points, spent a minute to recover all 15 and then spent them ALL again without being able to take a short rest, and then it is very little. 16 another asi, basically everything above 8 is a barren waste land unless you feel you need MORE mobility and defenses. Which, once you get your offense up by multi-classing, can be appealing.
Respectfully, no.
First off, unarmed strikes aren't limited to their hands. You can kick, elbow, or headbutt with ease. The entire point of the Nick property is they get to make an additional weapon attack while freeing up that bonus action. If you're going to give a monk's unarmed strikes the Nick mastery, then you're essentially saying weapons are meaningless. No, really, here's one handaxe attack and then nothing but unarmed strikes because they hit harder and deal force damage. The only thing your change does is let them add their Dexterity to the additional attack; rather than acquire Two Weapon Fighting Style via a background feat. They can't benefit from Nick twice, so your proposal looks like a nerf.
Second, the ability of the monk to throttle its damage dealt, maneuverability, and survivability is powerful. It's empowering by giving the player a meaningful choice to exercise. I can't believe I still have to say this in 2023, but damage isn't everything. It should not be the metric all classes are held to because they weren't designed that way. Now, don't get me wrong, damage is important to a fight. It's how you stop most enemies. A rogue can still dish out more than a monk at most levels, and it does so with a single all-or-nothing attack. The playtest is also giving rogues Cunning Strikes, which sacrifice some of that damage for debuffs. This new mechanic offers a lot of tactical depth by allowing the rogue to sacrifice as many as nine of its ten potential Sneak Attack dice for a variety of effects. Both classes are being set up to throttle damage output in the form of tactical options.
How does your proposal fit within the established paradigm, of what is essentially opportunity cost, or do you reject it outright in favor of external pressures?
I think the real question we should be asking is do these "discipline point" costs remain meaningful choices throughout the monk's career? Should choices like Flurry of Blows, Patient Defense, and Step of the Wind grow stronger in the same way Deflect Missiles evolves to include Deflect Energy? And if so, what should those other evolutions look like?