BAH GOD IT'S FIGHTER SUBCLASS WITH A METAL CHAIR OUT OF NOWHERE!!!
Frankly, this subclass left me baffled, if not speechless. Just what the hell is this?
1. The elephant in the room - what is it supposed to fight with? I know, the obvious answer is unarmed combat and improvised weapons because that's what its features support, but actual weapons are still simply stronger, and can be magical. Is it just about fluid masteries? Yes, level 15 feature makes two-handed improvised weapons really powerful with 1d12+PB+Str damage, and that's where your smaller party members will truly shine, but few games reach that level at all.
2. Why do we get another subclass that steps on a monk territory? Grappling Expert and Dirty Fighting seem like perfect features for monk, and yet here they are. Had this been a monk Jackie Chan subclass, it would fit right in, using MA damage dice for improvised weapons without factoring in magic items. This should be a monk subclass.
3. I just can't picture a knight in full plate armor armed with a chandelier or dual wielding buckets while keeping a straight face. Or were they trying to make Shovel Knight a part of DnD? Lighter armored brawler would probably make sense, but improvised weapons can't have finesse property, so at least medium armor it is. It's just comedic at its core. I'm sure there's plenty of fun shenanigans to be had with this subclass, but how is it supposed to work in a non-farcical story?
Yeah, some good ideas were there, but quite frankly they weren't very well executed. You shouldn't have to wait until level 15 just to deal 0.5 less damage than any old Fighter can deal at level 1 with the same number of hands.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
BAH GOD IT'S FIGHTER SUBCLASS WITH A METAL CHAIR OUT OF NOWHERE!!!
Frankly, this subclass left me baffled, if not speechless. Just what the hell is this?
1. The elephant in the room - what is it supposed to fight with? I know, the obvious answer is unarmed combat and improvised weapons because that's what its features support, but actual weapons are still simply stronger, and can be magical. Is it just about fluid masteries? Yes, level 15 feature makes two-handed improvised weapons really powerful with 1d12+PB+Str damage, and that's where your smaller party members will truly shine, but few games reach that level at all.
2. Why do we get another subclass that steps on a monk territory? Grappling Expert and Dirty Fighting seem like perfect features for monk, and yet here they are. Had this been a monk Jackie Chan subclass, it would fit right in, using MA damage dice for improvised weapons without factoring in magic items.
3. I just can't picture a knight in full plate armor armed with a chandelier or dual wielding buckets while keeping a straight face. Or were they trying to make Shovel Knight a part of DnD? Lighter armored brawler would probably make sense, but improvised weapons can't have finesse property, so at least medium armor it is. It's just comedic at its core. I'm sure there's plenty of fun shenanigans to be had with this subclass, but how is it supposed to work in a non-farcical story?
4. AND HIS NAME IS JOHN CENA!!! *bass drops*
improvised weapons can have the stats of weapons they are similar too.
"Sometimes characters don’t have their weapons and have to attack with whatever is at hand. An improvised weapon includes any object you can wield in one or two hands, such as broken glass, a table leg, a frying pan, a wagon wheel, or a dead goblin.
Often, an improvised weapon is similar to an actual weapon and can be treated as such. For example, a table leg is akin to a club. At the GM’s option, a character proficient with a weapon can use a similar object as if it were that weapon and use his or her proficiency bonus.
An object that bears no resemblance to a weapon deals 1d4 damage (the GM assigns a damage type appropriate to the object). If a character uses a ranged weapon to make a melee attack, or throws a melee weapon that does not have the thrown property, it also deals 1d4 damage. An improvised thrown weapon has a normal range of 20 feet and a long range of 60 feet."
And its not supposed to only fight with improvised weapons until late game, it fights with any and all weapons. Early on this allows you to have more masteries, and switch masteries. between improvised an non improvised more easily. Create some unique mastery pairs. Its the opposite of a one weapon focused class, its an all weapon/object/body focused class.
the unarmed is more to synergize with grappling, unarmed isnt just punches, its any part of your body, so you can headbutt/kick a guy while grappling two enemies. Also, tavern brawler and grappler give unarmed synergies. Grappling gives advantage with this class, so thats higher accuracy.
once you hit 15, improvised weapons become ridiculous
It's not a bad idea,, but it leans far more into the unarmed combat than it does for the grappling and improv weapons, which, TBH, are just about anything, but unfortunately, the rules around improv weapons suck.
I think 99% of the time (IIRC), things are a 1d4 club. I don't think there's any mention o things like a chef's knife or a broken bottle which could be a dagger (?) or something?
And the weapon masteries bit is just a cluster. They get to apply it to anything? So I can use a toothpick as an improv weapon with the topple feature?
And while we're at it, you can only use 2 weapons at a time. And you get to choose weapons masteries after every long rest... Not to mention weapons aren't something you're swapping out left and right like you do spells...
So why in god's name is the (general) fighter getting all these extraneous masteries?
Just let them have "weapons mastery" as their own feat, and then get to swap out the keywords at the end of every long rest. If they want sap on their longsword today and vex on it tomorrow, all the power to them. And stop giving it to everyone just cause... >.<
EDIT also it's not a knight. It's a barroom brawler. Look at the improv weapons fighter feat to get an idea.
The monk's ki points are a different mechanic, but yeah... This sounds like a better unarmed monk save for discipline points, which kinda do give the monk some better abilities. .
It also feels like they are making up the rules for improv weapons as they go and really giving the player a lot of leeway, which...For improve weapons? it isn't broken. This seems more fun than anything else.
Plus what's hilarious is the DMG is supposed to have ITEMS for UNARMED and IMPROVISED fighting.
I'm assuming they're going to be some sort of gloves, but the concept is.... Ironic.
It's not a bad idea,, but it leans far more into the unarmed combat than it does for the grappling and improv weapons, which, TBH, are just about anything, but unfortunately, the rules around improv weapons suck.
I think 99% of the time (IIRC), things are a 1d4 club. I don't think there's any mention o things like a chef's knife or a broken bottle which could be a dagger (?) or something?
And the weapon masteries bit is just a cluster. They get to apply it to anything? So I can use a toothpick as an improv weapon with the topple feature?
And while we're at it, you can only use 2 weapons at a time. And you get to choose weapons masteries after every long rest... Not to mention weapons aren't something you're swapping out left and right like you do spells...
SO why in god's name is the (general) fighter getting all these extraneous masteries?
Just let them have "weapons mastery" as their own feat, and then get to swap out the keywords at the end of every long rest. If they want sap on their longsword today and vex on it tomorrow, all the power to them. And stop giving it to everyone just cause... >.<
the rules say, whatever the weapon is similar to.
you can't use a toothpick because its not two handed.
Also, you can swap weapons in combat, so you can use any weapon you have on you, or find, in the case of improvised.
the current rule is you can equip or unequip a weapon as part of an attack, before, or after the attack. This essentially allows you to swap a weapon every other attack. You can do even more swapping with dual wielder, which let's you unequip/equip two when normally you could do one.
this is definitely a sub for the person who wants to constantly use various and different weapons
subclasses are for different types of players, the guy who wants to use one weapon won't pick this subclass.
improvised weapons can have the stats of weapons they are similar too.
"Sometimes characters don’t have their weapons and have to attack with whatever is at hand. An improvised weapon includes any object you can wield in one or two hands, such as broken glass, a table leg, a frying pan, a wagon wheel, or a dead goblin.
Often, an improvised weapon is similar to an actual weapon and can be treated as such. For example, a table leg is akin to a club. At the GM’s option, a character proficient with a weapon can use a similar object as if it were that weapon and use his or her proficiency bonus.
An object that bears no resemblance to a weapon deals 1d4 damage (the GM assigns a damage type appropriate to the object). If a character uses a ranged weapon to make a melee attack, or throws a melee weapon that does not have the thrown property, it also deals 1d4 damage. An improvised thrown weapon has a normal range of 20 feet and a long range of 60 feet."
And its not supposed to only fight with improvised weapons until late game, it fights with any and all weapons. Early on this allows you to have more masteries, and switch masteries. between improvised an non improvised more easily. Create some unique mastery pairs. Its the opposite of a one weapon focused class, its an all weapon/object/body focused class.
the unarmed is more to synergize with grappling, unarmed isnt just punches, its any part of your body, so you can headbutt/kick a guy while grappling two enemies. Also, tavern brawler and grappler give unarmed synergies. Grappling gives advantage with this class, so thats higher accuracy.
once you hit 15, improvised weapons become ridiculous
So, what is similar to a two-handed sword? Something with a long, heavy blade that is also not a weapon? 90% of the time you end up with a likelihood of a club or greatclub, because few mundane objects have blades or spikes. Besides, it only applies to improvised weapons, not regular ones, so you can't be as adaptive with a longsword as you'd be with a toilet seat or a mug.
It's not a bad idea,, but it leans far more into the unarmed combat than it does for the grappling and improv weapons, which, TBH, are just about anything, but unfortunately, the rules around improv weapons suck.
I think 99% of the time (IIRC), things are a 1d4 club. I don't think there's any mention o things like a chef's knife or a broken bottle which could be a dagger (?) or something?
And the weapon masteries bit is just a cluster. They get to apply it to anything? So I can use a toothpick as an improv weapon with the topple feature?
And while we're at it, you can only use 2 weapons at a time. And you get to choose weapons masteries after every long rest... Not to mention weapons aren't something you're swapping out left and right like you do spells...
SO why in god's name is the (general) fighter getting all these extraneous masteries?
Just let them have "weapons mastery" as their own feat, and then get to swap out the keywords at the end of every long rest. If they want sap on their longsword today and vex on it tomorrow, all the power to them. And stop giving it to everyone just cause... >.<
the rules say, whatever the weapon is similar to.
you can't use a toothpick because its not two handed.
Also, you can swap weapons in combat, so you can use any weapon you have on you, or find, in the case of improvised.
the current rule is you can equip or unequip a weapon as part of an attack, before, or after the attack. This essentially allows you to swap a weapon every other attack. You can do even more swapping with dual wielder, which let's you unequip/equip two when normally you could do one.
this is definitely a sub for the person who wants to constantly use various and different weapons
subclasses are for different types of players, the guy who wants to use one weapon won't pick this subclass.
If I can hold a toothpick with both hands, it's two handed. :P
The improvised weapon system is incredibly open to interpretation. I mean I like the idea, and my argument is a bit hyperbolic, but the definitions and abilities are very vague, which is why 90% of improv weapons are clubs.
You can argue about someone wantig to swap weapons mid-battle, but it's such a rarity that it's not worth the mention, and there's not a subclass for it (i was referring to the fighter in general). It breaks action economy and is an inventory management headache. My "change" is to decouple it from weapon and apply to fighter's skill an mastery of using a weapon for a purpose or particular style of use. I may not be able to topple you with a toothpick, but I can with a full beer bottle and the right grip... Not to mention the variety of uses daggers had, from disarming to use as a shield.... Just let the fighters use the masteries without the weapon type.
Fulfills the need of a non mystical martial artist.
In theory. In practice, it doesn't do either of those, 'cause it's kinda just bad.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Fulfills the need of a non mystical martial artist.
In theory. In practice, it doesn't do either of those, 'cause it's kinda just bad.
It's not bad, it's just half baked. I think it's different enough from the monk to be interesting. Its biggest overlap with the monk is that it does similar damage on unarmed strikes. It does not get AC bonuses, but it does get access to better armor. It doesn't get multiple attacks as flurry of blows gives, but it does get extra attacks like a fighter does. Improvised weapons generally match simple weapons.
It does not get all the extras given through discipline points. It does not get the extra bonuses afforded to the monk class and sublclass.
The weapons masteries are arguably better, but they're in line with the fighter. The dance bard steps on the monk's toes far worse than this subclass does. (and yet I agree, a LOT of the classes are blurring together with each UA)
The monk, separately, needs improvements. This is probably through new and different features given by discipline points and class features.
This class is half baked because the support rules for it are half baked and the UA's masteries are half baked, but not for anything inherent to the class itself.
Fulfills the need of a non mystical martial artist.
In theory. In practice, it doesn't do either of those, 'cause it's kinda just bad.
It looks better than a monk as is. It’s only real weakness comes when fighting creatures bigger than large. Then grappling is out the window. Honestly the best part is since it’s A fighter there is nothing limiting its weapon or armor selections. So when you can’t find the best improvised weapons you just use real weapons. I will say the best improvised weapons I can think of spiked fence post as spears or if the dm let’s you find one big enough to be a pike, maybe a jaw bone as a battle axe, or a If your dm is really generous a small tree and the pot it was planted in could be a maul.
Fulfills the need of a non mystical martial artist.
In theory. In practice, it doesn't do either of those, 'cause it's kinda just bad.
It looks better than a monk as is. It’s only real weakness comes when fighting creatures bigger than large. Then grappling is out the window. Honestly the best part is since it’s A fighter there is nothing limiting its weapon or armor selections. So when you can’t find the best improvised weapons you just use real weapons. I will say the best improvised weapons I can think of spiked fence post as spears or if the dm let’s you find one big enough to be a pike, maybe a jaw bone as a battle axe, or a If your dm is really generous a small tree and the pot it was planted in could be a maul.
yes, but I wouldn't call that generosity, its what improvised weapons are all about.
After all, this class isnt even giving any really direct power boost until 15, its all about versatility, theme and creativity,
Carrying the same couple specific appliances around everywhere so that you can have specific weapons count as "improvised" (which seems like an inaccurate descriptor at that point) hardly feels creative, versatile, or in any way logical to me. Until 7th level, the only real benefit the subclass can possibly give you comes from your DM letting you carry a potted plant around everywhere and use it as an "improvised" maul so that you can stick Reach on it and get a couple choices of Mastery before you get that same ability anyways.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Carrying the same couple specific appliances around everywhere so that you can have specific weapons count as "improvised" (which seems like an inaccurate descriptor at that point) hardly feels creative, versatile, or in any way logical to me. Until 7th level, the only real benefit the subclass can possibly give you comes from your DM letting you carry a potted plant around everywhere and use it as an "improvised" maul so that you can stick Reach on it and get a couple choices of Mastery before you get that same ability anyways.
I don’t know. I could see picking up the chef feat and bonking people with your favorite frying pan. Or you’re a farmboy who’s really attached to his favorite pitchfork. Or you are the butler who kills Colonel Mustard with a candlestick. Or you just have a couple rocks — I’m on the Brute Squad — everyone wants to be Fezzig. Seems like it could be a flavorful option. Carry the same thing around, or be the guy who says, I know 16 ways to kill you with that drinking straw, 22 if you keep the wrapper. Could be fun choices. And with the note about magic items, the chef can bash people with their magic frying pan, which would be a fantastic artifact.
I think it might be pretty cool, overall. I’d personally add a line like, your improvised weapon deals damage equal to your unarmed strikes to let it keep up better with damage, and let the stuff be more abstract.
Carrying the same couple specific appliances around everywhere so that you can have specific weapons count as "improvised" (which seems like an inaccurate descriptor at that point) hardly feels creative, versatile, or in any way logical to me. Until 7th level, the only real benefit the subclass can possibly give you comes from your DM letting you carry a potted plant around everywhere and use it as an "improvised" maul so that you can stick Reach on it and get a couple choices of Mastery before you get that same ability anyways.
I don’t know. I could see picking up the chef feat and bonking people with your favorite frying pan. Or you’re a farmboy who’s really attached to his favorite pitchfork. Or you are the butler who kills Colonel Mustard with a candlestick. Or you just have a couple rocks — I’m on the Brute Squad — everyone wants to be Fezzig. Seems like it could be a flavorful option. Carry the same thing around, or be the guy who says, I know 16 ways to kill you with that drinking straw, 22 if you keep the wrapper. Could be fun choices. And with the note about magic items, the chef can bash people with their magic frying pan, which would be a fantastic artifact.
I think it might be pretty cool, overall. I’d personally add a line like, your improvised weapon deals damage equal to your unarmed strikes to let it keep up better with damage, and let the stuff be more abstract.
Alright, you've convinced me that it could be cool.
But still, there's little mechanical benefit to improvised weapons until level 10, unless you get permission on the mother-may-I pseudo-greatsword. Of course, getting such a greatsword brings up the questions of "how much damage does it do?" and "what Masteries does it use?" The text for the 15th level feature (the damage die of your two-handed Improvised Weapons becomes 1d12) would actually make the damage die lower on an improvised greatsword, and the 3rd level feature seems to assume your improvised weapon has no Mastery to start with, both of which suggest that the feature wasn't made with such an item in mind (to me).
If there are going to be subclasses and magic items based on them, the rules for improvised weapons should be cleaned up and clarified.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Carrying the same couple specific appliances around everywhere so that you can have specific weapons count as "improvised" (which seems like an inaccurate descriptor at that point) hardly feels creative, versatile, or in any way logical to me. Until 7th level, the only real benefit the subclass can possibly give you comes from your DM letting you carry a potted plant around everywhere and use it as an "improvised" maul so that you can stick Reach on it and get a couple choices of Mastery before you get that same ability anyways.
an improvised weapon doesnt just mean potted plant, it also means a baseball bat. A scythe, A wide blade fastened to a straight branch. The pommel of your sword. A large rock, A person you grabbed. A pair of razor sharp metal tarot cards. As far as carrying around improvised weapons, yeah thats pretty normal, fid Casey Jones (ninja turtles) throw away his Hockey sticks?
It logical, because its real (pitchforks scythes, baseball bats, butchers knife), its creative because the limits are based on your imagination. And yeah the advantage of getting something earlier is an advantage. They will always have access to more masteries than other classes, from 3-20.
If you aren't interested in the versatility and the theme of the subclass, thats fine, it doesnt mean its a bad subclass.
I will say the level 10 feature is redundant with grappler, and it might be nice to get something more substantial before 15, since many games never reach that far.
replying to your later post,
the early benefit is more mastery, unique use cases. For example a powder keg would be an improvised weapon, you could throw with proficiency, and give it topple property. most alchemical items can be thrown as improvised weapons (poisons, oil, alchemist fire, alchohol). Throw giant cleaving rocks.
It has straight up mechanical benefits, even at 3, and gives a lot more options
BAH GOD IT'S FIGHTER SUBCLASS WITH A METAL CHAIR OUT OF NOWHERE!!!
Frankly, this subclass left me baffled, if not speechless. Just what the hell is this?
1. The elephant in the room - what is it supposed to fight with? I know, the obvious answer is unarmed combat and improvised weapons because that's what its features support, but actual weapons are still simply stronger, and can be magical. Is it just about fluid masteries? Yes, level 15 feature makes two-handed improvised weapons really powerful with 1d12+PB+Str damage, and that's where your smaller party members will truly shine, but few games reach that level at all.
2. Why do we get another subclass that steps on a monk territory? Grappling Expert and Dirty Fighting seem like perfect features for monk, and yet here they are. Had this been a monk Jackie Chan subclass, it would fit right in, using MA damage dice for improvised weapons without factoring in magic items. This should be a monk subclass.
3. I just can't picture a knight in full plate armor armed with a chandelier or dual wielding buckets while keeping a straight face. Or were they trying to make Shovel Knight a part of DnD? Lighter armored brawler would probably make sense, but improvised weapons can't have finesse property, so at least medium armor it is. It's just comedic at its core. I'm sure there's plenty of fun shenanigans to be had with this subclass, but how is it supposed to work in a non-farcical story?
4. AND HIS NAME IS JOHN CENA!!! *bass drops*
Yeah, some good ideas were there, but quite frankly they weren't very well executed. You shouldn't have to wait until level 15 just to deal 0.5 less damage than any old Fighter can deal at level 1 with the same number of hands.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
improvised weapons can have the stats of weapons they are similar too.
And its not supposed to only fight with improvised weapons until late game, it fights with any and all weapons. Early on this allows you to have more masteries, and switch masteries. between improvised an non improvised more easily. Create some unique mastery pairs. Its the opposite of a one weapon focused class, its an all weapon/object/body focused class.
the unarmed is more to synergize with grappling, unarmed isnt just punches, its any part of your body, so you can headbutt/kick a guy while grappling two enemies. Also, tavern brawler and grappler give unarmed synergies. Grappling gives advantage with this class, so thats higher accuracy.
once you hit 15, improvised weapons become ridiculous
It's not a bad idea,, but it leans far more into the unarmed combat than it does for the grappling and improv weapons, which, TBH, are just about anything, but unfortunately, the rules around improv weapons suck.
I think 99% of the time (IIRC), things are a 1d4 club. I don't think there's any mention o things like a chef's knife or a broken bottle which could be a dagger (?) or something?
And the weapon masteries bit is just a cluster. They get to apply it to anything? So I can use a toothpick as an improv weapon with the topple feature?
And while we're at it, you can only use 2 weapons at a time. And you get to choose weapons masteries after every long rest... Not to mention weapons aren't something you're swapping out left and right like you do spells...
So why in god's name is the (general) fighter getting all these extraneous masteries?
Just let them have "weapons mastery" as their own feat, and then get to swap out the keywords at the end of every long rest. If they want sap on their longsword today and vex on it tomorrow, all the power to them. And stop giving it to everyone just cause... >.<
EDIT also it's not a knight. It's a barroom brawler. Look at the improv weapons fighter feat to get an idea.
The monk's ki points are a different mechanic, but yeah... This sounds like a better unarmed monk save for discipline points, which kinda do give the monk some better abilities. .
It also feels like they are making up the rules for improv weapons as they go and really giving the player a lot of leeway, which...For improve weapons? it isn't broken. This seems more fun than anything else.
Plus what's hilarious is the DMG is supposed to have ITEMS for UNARMED and IMPROVISED fighting.
I'm assuming they're going to be some sort of gloves, but the concept is.... Ironic.
the rules say, whatever the weapon is similar to.
you can't use a toothpick because its not two handed.
Also, you can swap weapons in combat, so you can use any weapon you have on you, or find, in the case of improvised.
the current rule is you can equip or unequip a weapon as part of an attack, before, or after the attack. This essentially allows you to swap a weapon every other attack. You can do even more swapping with dual wielder, which let's you unequip/equip two when normally you could do one.
this is definitely a sub for the person who wants to constantly use various and different weapons
subclasses are for different types of players, the guy who wants to use one weapon won't pick this subclass.
So, what is similar to a two-handed sword? Something with a long, heavy blade that is also not a weapon? 90% of the time you end up with a likelihood of a club or greatclub, because few mundane objects have blades or spikes. Besides, it only applies to improvised weapons, not regular ones, so you can't be as adaptive with a longsword as you'd be with a toilet seat or a mug.
If I can hold a toothpick with both hands, it's two handed. :P
The improvised weapon system is incredibly open to interpretation. I mean I like the idea, and my argument is a bit hyperbolic, but the definitions and abilities are very vague, which is why 90% of improv weapons are clubs.
You can argue about someone wantig to swap weapons mid-battle, but it's such a rarity that it's not worth the mention, and there's not a subclass for it (i was referring to the fighter in general). It breaks action economy and is an inventory management headache. My "change" is to decouple it from weapon and apply to fighter's skill an mastery of using a weapon for a purpose or particular style of use. I may not be able to topple you with a toothpick, but I can with a full beer bottle and the right grip... Not to mention the variety of uses daggers had, from disarming to use as a shield.... Just let the fighters use the masteries without the weapon type.
This subclass fulfills two objectives.
In theory. In practice, it doesn't do either of those, 'cause it's kinda just bad.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
It's not bad, it's just half baked. I think it's different enough from the monk to be interesting. Its biggest overlap with the monk is that it does similar damage on unarmed strikes. It does not get AC bonuses, but it does get access to better armor. It doesn't get multiple attacks as flurry of blows gives, but it does get extra attacks like a fighter does. Improvised weapons generally match simple weapons.
It does not get all the extras given through discipline points. It does not get the extra bonuses afforded to the monk class and sublclass.
The weapons masteries are arguably better, but they're in line with the fighter. The dance bard steps on the monk's toes far worse than this subclass does. (and yet I agree, a LOT of the classes are blurring together with each UA)
The monk, separately, needs improvements. This is probably through new and different features given by discipline points and class features.
This class is half baked because the support rules for it are half baked and the UA's masteries are half baked, but not for anything inherent to the class itself.
Who the hell needs a Str based monk? Is it not MAD enough already?
It looks better than a monk as is. It’s only real weakness comes when fighting creatures bigger than large. Then grappling is out the window. Honestly the best part is since it’s A fighter there is nothing limiting its weapon or armor selections. So when you can’t find the best improvised weapons you just use real weapons. I will say the best improvised weapons I can think of spiked fence post as spears or if the dm let’s you find one big enough to be a pike, maybe a jaw bone as a battle axe, or a If your dm is really generous a small tree and the pot it was planted in could be a maul.
yes, but I wouldn't call that generosity, its what improvised weapons are all about.
After all, this class isnt even giving any really direct power boost until 15, its all about versatility, theme and creativity,
Carrying the same couple specific appliances around everywhere so that you can have specific weapons count as "improvised" (which seems like an inaccurate descriptor at that point) hardly feels creative, versatile, or in any way logical to me. Until 7th level, the only real benefit the subclass can possibly give you comes from your DM letting you carry a potted plant around everywhere and use it as an "improvised" maul so that you can stick Reach on it and get a couple choices of Mastery before you get that same ability anyways.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
For those of you lacking creativity here's some examples of improvised weapons and what real weapon they are most similar to:
Broken bottle - dagger
broom - quarterstaff
metal mug - club
kitchen knife - dagger
table / chair / misc furniture - greatclub or maul
scythe - glaive
pitchfork - pike
candle stick - mace
torch - mace that deals fire damage
chandelier - trident
frying pan - mace
iron pot - maul
fishing harpoon - spear or possibly crossbow
grappling hook on a string - flail
picture frame - boomerang
rug or tapestry - net
piece of rope or chain - whip
mining pickaxe - war pick
piton - dagger
crowbar - short or long sword
hammer - light hammer or warhammer
scissors - dagger
shaving razor - shortsword
toilet seat - boomerang
tree branch - club, greatclub or quarterstaff
bee hive - javelin that deals extra poison damage
scorpion on a stick - spear that deals extra poison damage
skunk in a cage - some kind of stink bomb
caltrop - short or long sword
harp or lyre + cutlery = shortbow / longbow
piece of an iron fence - spear, pike, or rapier
pendulum from a grandfather clock - halberd
sharp bit of pipe or stick - rapier
I actually kind of like it as someone who enjoys playing a monk and who has never been overly excited about playing a fighter.
DM mostly, Player occasionally | Session 0 form | He/Him/They/Them
EXTENDED SIGNATURE!
Doctor/Published Scholar/Science and Healthcare Advocate/Critter/Trekkie/Gandalf with a Glock
Try DDB free: Free Rules (2024), premade PCs, adventures, one shots, encounters, SC, homebrew, more
Answers: physical books, purchases, and subbing.
Check out my life-changing
I don’t know. I could see picking up the chef feat and bonking people with your favorite frying pan. Or you’re a farmboy who’s really attached to his favorite pitchfork. Or you are the butler who kills Colonel Mustard with a candlestick. Or you just have a couple rocks — I’m on the Brute Squad — everyone wants to be Fezzig. Seems like it could be a flavorful option. Carry the same thing around, or be the guy who says, I know 16 ways to kill you with that drinking straw, 22 if you keep the wrapper. Could be fun choices. And with the note about magic items, the chef can bash people with their magic frying pan, which would be a fantastic artifact.
I think it might be pretty cool, overall. I’d personally add a line like, your improvised weapon deals damage equal to your unarmed strikes to let it keep up better with damage, and let the stuff be more abstract.
Random thought shortsword and shield could benefit from two weapon fighting while still getting the full AC benefit of using shield.
Alright, you've convinced me that it could be cool.
But still, there's little mechanical benefit to improvised weapons until level 10, unless you get permission on the mother-may-I pseudo-greatsword. Of course, getting such a greatsword brings up the questions of "how much damage does it do?" and "what Masteries does it use?" The text for the 15th level feature (the damage die of your two-handed Improvised Weapons becomes 1d12) would actually make the damage die lower on an improvised greatsword, and the 3rd level feature seems to assume your improvised weapon has no Mastery to start with, both of which suggest that the feature wasn't made with such an item in mind (to me).
If there are going to be subclasses and magic items based on them, the rules for improvised weapons should be cleaned up and clarified.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
an improvised weapon doesnt just mean potted plant, it also means a baseball bat. A scythe, A wide blade fastened to a straight branch. The pommel of your sword. A large rock, A person you grabbed. A pair of razor sharp metal tarot cards. As far as carrying around improvised weapons, yeah thats pretty normal, fid Casey Jones (ninja turtles) throw away his Hockey sticks?
It logical, because its real (pitchforks scythes, baseball bats, butchers knife), its creative because the limits are based on your imagination. And yeah the advantage of getting something earlier is an advantage. They will always have access to more masteries than other classes, from 3-20.
If you aren't interested in the versatility and the theme of the subclass, thats fine, it doesnt mean its a bad subclass.
I will say the level 10 feature is redundant with grappler, and it might be nice to get something more substantial before 15, since many games never reach that far.
replying to your later post,
the early benefit is more mastery, unique use cases. For example a powder keg would be an improvised weapon, you could throw with proficiency, and give it topple property. most alchemical items can be thrown as improvised weapons (poisons, oil, alchemist fire, alchohol). Throw giant cleaving rocks.
It has straight up mechanical benefits, even at 3, and gives a lot more options