So you just flat out don't believe Wizards when they say Pact Magic is a problem and a statistically significant number of players have very real problems with it.
Why should anyone give a damn what you have to say, if you're just going to straight up disregard critical information that way?
3.5e was The Most Popular Edition Ever before Fifth; according to your logic something that is "popular" (according to years old, outdated information as opposed to just a couple months ago in the UA cycle) is utterly perfect in every possible way and changing it in any way for any reason is the blackest sin any game designer could commit, ne?
Tell me. Can you think of anything in history that was super popular at some point which is nowadays commonly held to be a horrible idea? I bet you won't have to try very hard.
"Popular" means NOTHING. "Popular" means LESS than nothing. Popularity is utterly, UTTERLY irrelevant to design and feasibility. The ONLY thing "popular" means is nobody's sold the rubes on a better idea yet. Chasing "popular" instead of "good" is the reason behind many of the world's ills today. **** "popular". I'll take Good instead, every time.
Crawford said it in the very beginning. Pact Magic makes people hoard those precious two spell slots for situations that may never arise, so warlocks end up not casting spells at all. Either that, or you spend your two spell slots and then you're out for the rest of the day...
yes! warlocks said they wanted to cast more leveled spells because they were either spamming a cantrip or they were spamming a cantrip. Magical Cunning is a step in the right direction, especially with Sakura's iteration of it.
... Not only that, warlocks also end up with less utility, because utility spells tend to not scale. Blowing a 5th level spell slot on a 2nd level utility spell? Show me a warlock who would do this without gritting their teeth. Invocations don't cover as much as the whole spell list does...
no! lack of utility wasn't the problem with pact slots. a party without full spell utility coverage is a party that finds another way to do things. even so, invocations remain a decent solution for warlock out of combat casting the class would feel very different without them.
My take with Pact Magic is that they need to give the third slot sooner. Shorten those 9 damn levels where a gully dwarf can count how many spells you have in a fight. Only grant the Warlock a new spell level at even levels if you must to balance it out, but get them that 3rd spell well before 6th level spells come into the game.
And please, please, please stop making the stopgap recharge mechanics require a completely empty tank in order to function. It won't stop the hoarding of resources because the fear is specifically being at zero rather than a mere "not having enough." The players have most likely convinced themselves that the moment they have nothing left is when the TPK encounter that could have been resolved if only they had even one spell is gonna happen.
no! lack of utility wasn't the problem with pact slots. a party without full spell utility coverage is a party that finds another way to do things. invocations remain a decent solution for warlock utility and the class would feel very different without them.
Folks like Dudeicus are trying to take away the Invocation system, Rum. Or at least water it down to the point of uselessness. Never mind that Invocations are the actual factual only reason to play a warlock; if they can get one more Pact Magic slot by sacrificing Invocations entirely, they'll do so with a smile on their face and a song in their heart. And I will never stop hating it.
So you just flat out don't believe Wizards when they say Pact Magic is a problem and a statistically significant number of players have very real problems with it.
Why should anyone give a damn what you have to say, if you're just going to straight up disregard critical information that way?
3.5e was The Most Popular Edition Ever before Fifth; according to your logic something that is "popular" (according to years old, outdated information as opposed to just a couple months ago in the UA cycle) is utterly perfect in every possible way and changing it in any way for any reason is the blackest sin any game designer could commit, ne?
Tell me. Can you think of anything in history that was super popular at some point which is nowadays commonly held to be a horrible idea? I bet you won't have to try very hard.
"Popular" means NOTHING. "Popular" means LESS than nothing. Popularity is utterly, UTTERLY irrelevant to design and feasibility. The ONLY thing "popular" means is nobody's sold the rubes on a better idea yet. Chasing "popular" instead of "good" is the reason behind many of the world's ills today. **** "popular". I'll take Good instead, every time.
Why should anyone take anything you say remotely seriously when you constantly use hyperbole and seem incapable of understanding that a generic poll about issues with a class does not tell everything about the story. People did not by and large say they hated pact magic. They said they wanted more spells and didn't like using 5th level slots on 1st level spells.
It is like people complaining that their thermos is too small as it only holds 12 ounces and then someone saying here you go have a lunchbox thermos combo pack. And then getting upset that the response was, hey I just wanted a bigger thermos.
no! lack of utility wasn't the problem with pact slots. a party without full spell utility coverage is a party that finds another way to do things. invocations remain a decent solution for warlock utility and the class would feel very different without them.
Folks like Dudeicus are trying to take away the Invocation system, Rum. Or at least water it down to the point of uselessness. Never mind that Invocations are the actual factual only reason to play a warlock; if they can get one more Pact Magic slot by sacrificing Invocations entirely, they'll do so with a smile on their face and a song in their heart. And I will never stop hating it.
aww, Dudeicus why? also, wait really? i saw him say...
...allow the warlock to concentrate on 2 spells as long as one is hex something. Also let people use a bonus action to swap targets even when the target is still alive, allow you to swap the stat it penalizes as well. Hopefully add some invocations that allow you to expand the hex side of hex applying other penalties to the target, allowing it to help more in social situations stealth etc.
...which I took to be an expansion of both invocations and that Hex spell some people seem to like. I do have an idle pitchfork, but i haven't yet seen he weighs as much as a duck.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: providefeedback!
no! lack of utility wasn't the problem with pact slots. a party without full spell utility coverage is a party that finds another way to do things. invocations remain a decent solution for warlock utility and the class would feel very different without them.
Folks like Dudeicus are trying to take away the Invocation system, Rum. Or at least water it down to the point of uselessness. Never mind that Invocations are the actual factual only reason to play a warlock; if they can get one more Pact Magic slot by sacrificing Invocations entirely, they'll do so with a smile on their face and a song in their heart. And I will never stop hating it.
no! lack of utility wasn't the problem with pact slots. a party without full spell utility coverage is a party that finds another way to do things. invocations remain a decent solution for warlock utility and the class would feel very different without them.
Folks like Dudeicus are trying to take away the Invocation system, Rum. Or at least water it down to the point of uselessness. Never mind that Invocations are the actual factual only reason to play a warlock; if they can get one more Pact Magic slot by sacrificing Invocations entirely, they'll do so with a smile on their face and a song in their heart. And I will never stop hating it.
aww, Dudeicus why? also, wait really? i saw him say...
...allow the warlock to concentrate on 2 spells as long as one is hex something. Also let people use a bonus action to swap targets even when the target is still alive, allow you to swap the stat it penalizes as well. Hopefully add some invocations that allow you to expand the hex side of hex applying other penalties to the target, allowing it to help more in social situations stealth etc.
...which I took to be an expansion of both invocations and that Hex spell some people seem to like. I do have an idle pitchfork, but i haven't yet seen he weighs as much as a duck.
Yeah I want to expand invocations drastically past what we have. I do think they moved things in the right direction with some of these level changes. About the only way I'd say I'd "water it down" is I'd streamline things like mask of many faces into one repeatable invocation. Something like Mystic Mastery, some spells can be chosen to be used at will. Choose a spell that works with this invocation, spells in their spell description will indicate if they can be learned through this invocation and the level at which they become available, and any changes to the spell while being used with this invocation, such as levitate is self only when used through this invocation which will be described in the levitate spell text. The list of spells available to this invocation in the PH are X, Y, Z. The reasoning is similar to why they wanted a arcane/divine/primal spell list, as it allows more freedom to add unlimited cast invocations without needing a specific invocation. Just determine if its balanced to be used as such while designing the spell. I'd do the same with similar invocations that were not at will but that gave 1, 2 or 3 free casts per day.
As an aside I do wish they had kept the spell lists, though I think the arcane list could have been cut in half and then divide the remaining 1/2 amongst the arcane classes as unique spells. As I do think unique spells to a class is important. And the arcane list was just too dang big, it would make arcane the no brainer choice for bard
I mean, at least it could be spell points system so that warlocks could cast lower level spells and not spend the entire resource pool in just two huge chunks.
See, spell points would solve the issue instantly. Let the warlock have the stupid dumb pointless "Full Caster Progression, Short Rest Recharge" Pact Magic people are willing to sacrifice the entire rest of the class to retain, but give them only 30% or so the spell points of a proper spellcaster and an extremely limited ability to regain a few of them on short rest. Boom. Done. Problem solved. You can cast your one oversized spell, or a few smaller ones, as the situation needs.
yup said the same thing a few times myself. They can even do it by using a modified spell slot progression to hide the fact that it’s actually spell points.
but the total number of points for an entire day shouldn’t be granted at the start of a long rest because the number of overpowered spells that could be cast is game breaking during a single encounter
so applying the character 2014 warlock L9 progression point: it falls back to you have 14 spell points to use and you regain lots of points on a short rest, or
you have a full days compliment of 30+ spell points worth and you can only cast L5 spells X times per day, or
call them spell slots, spread the days total evenly over all the lower levels (1:2 progression, never accumulating more than 2 slots in each spell level) and the lower slots can be sacrificed or burnt through to cast the higher levels X times per encounter (that’s the Pact Magic), regaining some on a short rest. At L10 the Warlock would then have 2 spell slots in each spell level 1 through to 5 and have both utility and raw power.
Spell points are cleaner but it’s also a clean break from Pact Magic. A modified spell slot progression based off spell points tricks the brain and so doesn’t deviate too far from Pact Magic.
Why should anyone take anything you say remotely seriously when you constantly use hyperbole and seem incapable of understanding that a generic poll about issues with a class does not tell everything about the story. People did not by and large say they hated pact magic. They said they wanted more spells and didn't like using 5th level slots on 1st level spells.
It is like people complaining that their thermos is too small as it only holds 12 ounces and then someone saying here you go have a lunchbox thermos combo pack. And then getting upset that the response was, hey I just wanted a bigger thermos.
Using 5th level slots on 1st level spells is the whole point of Pact Magic. It's just how it works. You can't solve this without changing Pact Magic into something entirely different, like half-caster progression or spell point system.
Playing warlock is like having two 100 dollar bills in your pocket in a world where no one has change. Want bubblegum? That'll be 100 dollars, because there's no way for you to spend less of your resources.
Why should anyone take anything you say remotely seriously when you constantly use hyperbole and seem incapable of understanding that a generic poll about issues with a class does not tell everything about the story. People did not by and large say they hated pact magic. They said they wanted more spells and didn't like using 5th level slots on 1st level spells.
It is like people complaining that their thermos is too small as it only holds 12 ounces and then someone saying here you go have a lunchbox thermos combo pack. And then getting upset that the response was, hey I just wanted a bigger thermos.
Using 5th level slots on 1st level spells is the whole point of Pact Magic. It's just how it works. You can't solve this without changing Pact Magic into something entirely different, like half-caster progression or spell point system.
Playing warlock is like having two 100 dollar bills in your pocket in a world where no one has change. Want bubblegum? That'll be 100 dollars, because there's no way for you to spend less of your resources.
That's what feats, Invocations, and spells that have upcast benefits are for. Between at-will casts and Book of Ancient Secrets if you want to focus on utility, Invocations offer a fair bit of utility all by themselves. Chain is likewise a massive utility boon, considering 3 of the 4 special familiars can turn invisible and/or shapeshift into innocuous forms, and all of them can fly. That's a significant recon benefit. Blade doesn't have those perks, but if you took Blade then you're probably more focused on combat in any case.
No, you're not getting the full utility range of a Wizard, but Wizards don't get at-will casts until tier 4 and they have weaker class features. It's all about trade-offs. Warlocks can't cover as wide a set of situations as a Wizard, but they get additional perks to the areas they do choose to cover.
That's what feats, Invocations, and spells that have upcast benefits are for. Between at-will casts and Book of Ancient Secrets if you want to focus on utility, Invocations offer a fair bit of utility all by themselves. Chain is likewise a massive utility boon, considering 3 of the 4 special familiars can turn invisible and/or shapeshift into innocuous forms, and all of them can fly. That's a significant recon benefit. Blade doesn't have those perks, but if you took Blade then you're probably more focused on combat in any case.
No, you're not getting the full utility range of a Wizard, but Wizards don't get at-will casts until tier 4 and they have weaker class features. It's all about trade-offs. Warlocks can't cover as wide a set of situations as a Wizard, but they get additional perks to the areas they do choose to cover.
Crutches, crutches, and crutches for a limping mechanic. Is warlock meant to be a "wizard in a wheelchair" class? If a base class mechanic requires feats, it's already disfunctional.
Warlocks do have almost as much utility range as wizards do, their spell list is decent, it's just that they can't really use it as freely. Any spell is 100 dollars (max level slot). Which is why you don't want anything below your maximum slot level, unless it's crucial or it scales really well. This harsh reality drastically reduces your virtual selection of spells. What's even more ridiculous is that some warlock-only spells like Hunger of Hadar don't even scale at all, so there's no reason for a warlock to take this warlock-only spell.
What's even more ridiculous is that some warlock-only spells like Hunger of Hadar don't even scale at all, so there's no reason for a warlock to take this warlock-only spell.
This is one of my big grievances with the class as well; it's not like an extra d6 on one or both of the damage rolls would be overpowered, but eases the premium of spending a 4th- or 5th-level spell slot. It's not a problem unique to the Warlock, as there are other spells that weirdly don't scale, such as maelstrom and tidal wave, but it's uniquely frustrating for Warlocks when you're paying a premium to cast them.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
This harsh reality drastically reduces your virtual selection of spells.
Diversity in spell selection largely a lie in 5e anyway, because spells are balanced so poorly there are enough "must-takes" at each level that almost all casters with a given spell list end up taking the same spells anyway.
If your class si 100% hyper-reliant on specific feats to function, your class design is bad.
Invocations,
Can't count on Invocations, remember! Folks like Dudeicus want to give up Invocations entirely, or mostly entirely, in exchange for "a bigger thermos" for their oh-so-precious Pact Magic. Because ShOrT rEsT mAgIc Is CoOl, and there is no price too high to pay for the ability to gain back spell slots on a short rest. Evben if paying that price makes the class nonfunctional.
and spells that have upcast benefits are for.
Spoilers: adding one whole-ass damage die to a given spell, in almost all cases, does not mean dick monkey bupkis. "Upcasting" is a lie, a sad lame milksop to make warlocks feel slightly better about their pointless nonfunctional "spellcasting."
Between at-will casts and Book of Ancient Secrets if you want to focus on utility, Invocations offer a fair bit of utility all by themselves. Chain is likewise a massive utility boon, considering 3 of the 4 special familiars can turn invisible and/or shapeshift into innocuous forms, and all of them can fly. That's a significant recon benefit. Blade doesn't have those perks, but if you took Blade then you're probably more focused on combat in any case.
Again - you can't use Invocations or Boons in these discussion because Pact Magic Enjoyers want the Invocation system gone to make room for Moar Pakt Majik. Never mind that Invocations are the entire reason to play the warlock class and the reason they made Pact Magic such a meaningless tire fire in the first place. Nah. Pact Magic Enjoyers want their Bigger Thermos, and that means getting rid of Invocations, Pact Boons, armor and weapon proficiencies, the d8 hit die...basically, everything that actually makes warlocks different from sorcerers and wizards, in pursuit of a Pact Magic system "that's different from sorcerers and wizards and their lame long rest magic!" despite the rest of the new base warlock chassis they want being 100% identical to those classes.
No, you're not getting the full utility range of a Wizard, but Wizards don't get at-will casts until tier 4 and they have weaker class features. It's all about trade-offs. Warlocks can't cover as wide a set of situations as a Wizard, but they get additional perks to the areas they do choose to cover.
Do they? Or are they going to lose all of that stuff because apparently changing Pact Magic to something that doesn't cripple the warlock class is absolutely unacceptable, but getting rid of literally everything else that makes the warlock the warlock - culling Invocations, Boons, armor, weapons, hit die, even the patrons if they have to - is perfectly fine because the only thing that matters is sHoRt ReSt MaGiC?
What's even more ridiculous is that some warlock-only spells like Hunger of Hadar don't even scale at all, so there's no reason for a warlock to take this warlock-only spell.
This is one of my big grievances with the class as well; it's not like an extra d6 on one or both of the damage rolls would be overpowered, but eases the premium of spending a 4th- or 5th-level spell slot. It's not a problem unique to the Warlock, as there are other spells that weirdly don't scale, such as maelstrom and tidal wave, but it's uniquely frustrating for Warlocks when you're paying a premium to cast them.
I've made plenty of "reasoned arguments". When the response I get is "I don't believe you, you're a terrible D&D player and a worse human being, **** off and never play anything but wizards you stupid ghost", why should I overextend unreasonable amounts of courtesy back to people who continually accuse me of horrible things because I hate Pact Magic and can back up why it's bad?
Because, again - Pact Magic is broken. If you don't get the EXACT PERFECT RIGHT CORRECT number of short rests, Pact Magic is either cripplingly underpowered or Godzilla Rampage overpowered. One single rest either direction from the Sweet Spot and the system falls over, breaks, and dies. The only logical reason anyone would want to retain the system is because they continually push for the Godzilla end of the scale. Pact Magic, in its current 2014 form people are so infuriatingly in love with, cannot be balanced properly. It is a feast or famine mechanic that completely screws over the game's intended attrition curves. Take ONE rest too "few", and you may as well not have spellcasting. Take ONE rest too many, and you may as well just have at-will fifth-level slots and be done with pretending you're trying to play fair.
The mechanic is broken. It does not behave properly. It cannot be retained in its current form.
Also, I feel slightly compelled to point out that there's not actually a whole lot of utility feats that are good for the warlock.
Elemental Adept is really only useful for Fiend, and that's if you go all in on fire damage. Plus its only relevant for combat, as are Spell Sniper, War Caster and Inspiring Leader. Keen Mind improves only INT, and we no longer have flexible casting options. Observant has the same problem, but with WIS and INT instead of just INT.
Ritual Caster is just flat out worse than taking the Pact of the Tome Invocation. Like, there's no comparison with how much better Tome is, making Ritual Caster kind of a waste for warlock. Of course, there might be multiple really, really good level 1 rituals out there, and you might want to double down on rituals too. Time will tell how good level 1 ritual casting is.
Actor requires the Performance skill (you'll need to burn a background skill or invocation for) and is only good if you're into disguising yourself as others. Arguably, you can do the same thing with cantrips and the Deception skill, and hitting that DC15 the feat calls for reliably is tricky. Might be a good match if you want to go that trickster route, but its rather niche for warlocks imho.
Of 1st level utility feats, there's Musician, Magic Initiate, Skilled, and maybe Crafter or Lucky. Musician and Lucky basically are pseudo-advantage generators, nice for anything, but ends up usually saved for combat imho. Crafter... gives you a discount on crafting in terms of gold and time, which might not be important, depending on the rules for crafting, so it might not actually be an advantage at all. Skilled is more skills, Magic Initiate is more spells (Which, again, might not be useful in the face of Pact of the Tome, or might let you double down on it if there's enough stuff you want).
So, we have a net of two 1st level feats that directly improve your utility in limited ways, two dice-manipulating level 1 feats, and two rather niche 4+ level feats. That's not a lot.
There’s also Fey Touched and Shadow Touched. Very useful for splashing utility spells. And, for everyone who missed, ignored, or disregarded my point the first time, these are not going to be the equivalent of a conventional full caster’s array. Warlocks are not supposed to be as good at regular spellcasting, they’re supposed to have powers that other casters don’t between their features and Invocations (which, contrary to certain misinformed assertions, I consider to be a cornerstone of the class). Which is why so many people had a problem with the half caster; rather than developing what makes Warlocks unique, it tried to force them into a half caster slot, with the option to spend further Invocations to be a 5/8’s caster. If you want to have a spell for every problem, that’s what the Wizard class is for foremost and the 4 other full caster classes also cover. Personally, I’d prefer Warlock have some more individuality and character rather than just being nearly identical to Sorcerers and Wizards, or worse a junior version of them.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
So you just flat out don't believe Wizards when they say Pact Magic is a problem and a statistically significant number of players have very real problems with it.
Why should anyone give a damn what you have to say, if you're just going to straight up disregard critical information that way?
3.5e was The Most Popular Edition Ever before Fifth; according to your logic something that is "popular" (according to years old, outdated information as opposed to just a couple months ago in the UA cycle) is utterly perfect in every possible way and changing it in any way for any reason is the blackest sin any game designer could commit, ne?
Tell me. Can you think of anything in history that was super popular at some point which is nowadays commonly held to be a horrible idea? I bet you won't have to try very hard.
"Popular" means NOTHING. "Popular" means LESS than nothing. Popularity is utterly, UTTERLY irrelevant to design and feasibility. The ONLY thing "popular" means is nobody's sold the rubes on a better idea yet. Chasing "popular" instead of "good" is the reason behind many of the world's ills today. **** "popular". I'll take Good instead, every time.
Please do not contact or message me.
yes! warlocks said they wanted to cast more leveled spells because they were either spamming a cantrip or they were spamming a cantrip. Magical Cunning is a step in the right direction, especially with Sakura's iteration of it.
no! lack of utility wasn't the problem with pact slots. a party without full spell utility coverage is a party that finds another way to do things. even so, invocations remain a decent solution for warlock out of combat casting the class would feel very different without them.
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
My take with Pact Magic is that they need to give the third slot sooner. Shorten those 9 damn levels where a gully dwarf can count how many spells you have in a fight. Only grant the Warlock a new spell level at even levels if you must to balance it out, but get them that 3rd spell well before 6th level spells come into the game.
And please, please, please stop making the stopgap recharge mechanics require a completely empty tank in order to function. It won't stop the hoarding of resources because the fear is specifically being at zero rather than a mere "not having enough." The players have most likely convinced themselves that the moment they have nothing left is when the TPK encounter that could have been resolved if only they had even one spell is gonna happen.
Folks like Dudeicus are trying to take away the Invocation system, Rum. Or at least water it down to the point of uselessness. Never mind that Invocations are the actual factual only reason to play a warlock; if they can get one more Pact Magic slot by sacrificing Invocations entirely, they'll do so with a smile on their face and a song in their heart. And I will never stop hating it.
Please do not contact or message me.
Why should anyone take anything you say remotely seriously when you constantly use hyperbole and seem incapable of understanding that a generic poll about issues with a class does not tell everything about the story. People did not by and large say they hated pact magic. They said they wanted more spells and didn't like using 5th level slots on 1st level spells.
It is like people complaining that their thermos is too small as it only holds 12 ounces and then someone saying here you go have a lunchbox thermos combo pack. And then getting upset that the response was, hey I just wanted a bigger thermos.
aww, Dudeicus why? also, wait really? i saw him say...
...which I took to be an expansion of both invocations and that Hex spell some people seem to like. I do have an idle pitchfork, but i haven't yet seen he weighs as much as a duck.
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
Well that's just a lie.
Yeah I want to expand invocations drastically past what we have. I do think they moved things in the right direction with some of these level changes. About the only way I'd say I'd "water it down" is I'd streamline things like mask of many faces into one repeatable invocation. Something like Mystic Mastery, some spells can be chosen to be used at will. Choose a spell that works with this invocation, spells in their spell description will indicate if they can be learned through this invocation and the level at which they become available, and any changes to the spell while being used with this invocation, such as levitate is self only when used through this invocation which will be described in the levitate spell text. The list of spells available to this invocation in the PH are X, Y, Z. The reasoning is similar to why they wanted a arcane/divine/primal spell list, as it allows more freedom to add unlimited cast invocations without needing a specific invocation. Just determine if its balanced to be used as such while designing the spell. I'd do the same with similar invocations that were not at will but that gave 1, 2 or 3 free casts per day.
As an aside I do wish they had kept the spell lists, though I think the arcane list could have been cut in half and then divide the remaining 1/2 amongst the arcane classes as unique spells. As I do think unique spells to a class is important. And the arcane list was just too dang big, it would make arcane the no brainer choice for bard
yup said the same thing a few times myself. They can even do it by using a modified spell slot progression to hide the fact that it’s actually spell points.
but the total number of points for an entire day shouldn’t be granted at the start of a long rest because the number of overpowered spells that could be cast is game breaking during a single encounter
so applying the character 2014 warlock L9 progression point: it falls back to you have 14 spell points to use and you regain lots of points on a short rest, or
you have a full days compliment of 30+ spell points worth and you can only cast L5 spells X times per day, or
call them spell slots, spread the days total evenly over all the lower levels (1:2 progression, never accumulating more than 2 slots in each spell level) and the lower slots can be sacrificed or burnt through to cast the higher levels X times per encounter (that’s the Pact Magic), regaining some on a short rest. At L10 the Warlock would then have 2 spell slots in each spell level 1 through to 5 and have both utility and raw power.
Spell points are cleaner but it’s also a clean break from Pact Magic. A modified spell slot progression based off spell points tricks the brain and so doesn’t deviate too far from Pact Magic.
my 2 copper pieces given.
Using 5th level slots on 1st level spells is the whole point of Pact Magic. It's just how it works. You can't solve this without changing Pact Magic into something entirely different, like half-caster progression or spell point system.
Playing warlock is like having two 100 dollar bills in your pocket in a world where no one has change. Want bubblegum? That'll be 100 dollars, because there's no way for you to spend less of your resources.
That's what feats, Invocations, and spells that have upcast benefits are for. Between at-will casts and Book of Ancient Secrets if you want to focus on utility, Invocations offer a fair bit of utility all by themselves. Chain is likewise a massive utility boon, considering 3 of the 4 special familiars can turn invisible and/or shapeshift into innocuous forms, and all of them can fly. That's a significant recon benefit. Blade doesn't have those perks, but if you took Blade then you're probably more focused on combat in any case.
No, you're not getting the full utility range of a Wizard, but Wizards don't get at-will casts until tier 4 and they have weaker class features. It's all about trade-offs. Warlocks can't cover as wide a set of situations as a Wizard, but they get additional perks to the areas they do choose to cover.
Crutches, crutches, and crutches for a limping mechanic. Is warlock meant to be a "wizard in a wheelchair" class? If a base class mechanic requires feats, it's already disfunctional.
Warlocks do have almost as much utility range as wizards do, their spell list is decent, it's just that they can't really use it as freely. Any spell is 100 dollars (max level slot). Which is why you don't want anything below your maximum slot level, unless it's crucial or it scales really well. This harsh reality drastically reduces your virtual selection of spells. What's even more ridiculous is that some warlock-only spells like Hunger of Hadar don't even scale at all, so there's no reason for a warlock to take this warlock-only spell.
This is one of my big grievances with the class as well; it's not like an extra d6 on one or both of the damage rolls would be overpowered, but eases the premium of spending a 4th- or 5th-level spell slot. It's not a problem unique to the Warlock, as there are other spells that weirdly don't scale, such as maelstrom and tidal wave, but it's uniquely frustrating for Warlocks when you're paying a premium to cast them.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Diversity in spell selection largely a lie in 5e anyway, because spells are balanced so poorly there are enough "must-takes" at each level that almost all casters with a given spell list end up taking the same spells anyway.
If your class si 100% hyper-reliant on specific feats to function, your class design is bad.
Can't count on Invocations, remember! Folks like Dudeicus want to give up Invocations entirely, or mostly entirely, in exchange for "a bigger thermos" for their oh-so-precious Pact Magic. Because ShOrT rEsT mAgIc Is CoOl, and there is no price too high to pay for the ability to gain back spell slots on a short rest. Evben if paying that price makes the class nonfunctional.
Spoilers: adding one whole-ass damage die to a given spell, in almost all cases, does not mean dick monkey bupkis. "Upcasting" is a lie, a sad lame milksop to make warlocks feel slightly better about their pointless nonfunctional "spellcasting."
Again - you can't use Invocations or Boons in these discussion because Pact Magic Enjoyers want the Invocation system gone to make room for Moar Pakt Majik. Never mind that Invocations are the entire reason to play the warlock class and the reason they made Pact Magic such a meaningless tire fire in the first place. Nah. Pact Magic Enjoyers want their Bigger Thermos, and that means getting rid of Invocations, Pact Boons, armor and weapon proficiencies, the d8 hit die...basically, everything that actually makes warlocks different from sorcerers and wizards, in pursuit of a Pact Magic system "that's different from sorcerers and wizards and their lame long rest magic!" despite the rest of the new base warlock chassis they want being 100% identical to those classes.
Do they? Or are they going to lose all of that stuff because apparently changing Pact Magic to something that doesn't cripple the warlock class is absolutely unacceptable, but getting rid of literally everything else that makes the warlock the warlock - culling Invocations, Boons, armor, weapons, hit die, even the patrons if they have to - is perfectly fine because the only thing that matters is sHoRt ReSt MaGiC?
Please do not contact or message me.
This. So much.
People like Yurei like lying about people because they are incapable of making a reasoned argument.
I've made plenty of "reasoned arguments". When the response I get is "I don't believe you, you're a terrible D&D player and a worse human being, **** off and never play anything but wizards you stupid ghost", why should I overextend unreasonable amounts of courtesy back to people who continually accuse me of horrible things because I hate Pact Magic and can back up why it's bad?
Because, again - Pact Magic is broken. If you don't get the EXACT PERFECT RIGHT CORRECT number of short rests, Pact Magic is either cripplingly underpowered or Godzilla Rampage overpowered. One single rest either direction from the Sweet Spot and the system falls over, breaks, and dies. The only logical reason anyone would want to retain the system is because they continually push for the Godzilla end of the scale. Pact Magic, in its current 2014 form people are so infuriatingly in love with, cannot be balanced properly. It is a feast or famine mechanic that completely screws over the game's intended attrition curves. Take ONE rest too "few", and you may as well not have spellcasting. Take ONE rest too many, and you may as well just have at-will fifth-level slots and be done with pretending you're trying to play fair.
The mechanic is broken. It does not behave properly. It cannot be retained in its current form.
Please do not contact or message me.
Also, I feel slightly compelled to point out that there's not actually a whole lot of utility feats that are good for the warlock.
Elemental Adept is really only useful for Fiend, and that's if you go all in on fire damage. Plus its only relevant for combat, as are Spell Sniper, War Caster and Inspiring Leader. Keen Mind improves only INT, and we no longer have flexible casting options. Observant has the same problem, but with WIS and INT instead of just INT.
Ritual Caster is just flat out worse than taking the Pact of the Tome Invocation. Like, there's no comparison with how much better Tome is, making Ritual Caster kind of a waste for warlock. Of course, there might be multiple really, really good level 1 rituals out there, and you might want to double down on rituals too. Time will tell how good level 1 ritual casting is.
Actor requires the Performance skill (you'll need to burn a background skill or invocation for) and is only good if you're into disguising yourself as others. Arguably, you can do the same thing with cantrips and the Deception skill, and hitting that DC15 the feat calls for reliably is tricky. Might be a good match if you want to go that trickster route, but its rather niche for warlocks imho.
Of 1st level utility feats, there's Musician, Magic Initiate, Skilled, and maybe Crafter or Lucky. Musician and Lucky basically are pseudo-advantage generators, nice for anything, but ends up usually saved for combat imho. Crafter... gives you a discount on crafting in terms of gold and time, which might not be important, depending on the rules for crafting, so it might not actually be an advantage at all. Skilled is more skills, Magic Initiate is more spells (Which, again, might not be useful in the face of Pact of the Tome, or might let you double down on it if there's enough stuff you want).
So, we have a net of two 1st level feats that directly improve your utility in limited ways, two dice-manipulating level 1 feats, and two rather niche 4+ level feats. That's not a lot.
There’s also Fey Touched and Shadow Touched. Very useful for splashing utility spells. And, for everyone who missed, ignored, or disregarded my point the first time, these are not going to be the equivalent of a conventional full caster’s array. Warlocks are not supposed to be as good at regular spellcasting, they’re supposed to have powers that other casters don’t between their features and Invocations (which, contrary to certain misinformed assertions, I consider to be a cornerstone of the class). Which is why so many people had a problem with the half caster; rather than developing what makes Warlocks unique, it tried to force them into a half caster slot, with the option to spend further Invocations to be a 5/8’s caster. If you want to have a spell for every problem, that’s what the Wizard class is for foremost and the 4 other full caster classes also cover. Personally, I’d prefer Warlock have some more individuality and character rather than just being nearly identical to Sorcerers and Wizards, or worse a junior version of them.