Quote from Ain_Undos>>I think a better argument would be that they are missing an opportunity to actually make the hexblade a real melee martial focused subclass that more strongly fills the niche if a cursed weapon user, rather than it needs more access to easy sources of AC. A common use of the old hexblade was an eldritch blast turret with more defense.
Above is a lot of words used with very little meaning. I try to use less words.
The level you get features at mattes a lot. To argue otherwise is disingenuous.
Disengage and teleportation are the mobility I’ve been talking about. Archery is the skirmisher warlock, I want Hexblade to remain the partial tank warlock.
I have never said monk will do anything, I literally said monk can do both things. Having disengage, dodge, and deflect attacks means monks can choose their play style on the fly and still have the other option if things don’t workout.
This is pointless because you are using every possible warlock build to counter without acknowledging that no one build can do all the stuff you are saying.
Also if they update Hexblade then you can’t use old Hexblade anymore by RAI, RAW. As of now old Hexblade is allowed in all 2024 games by RAW, and RAI. If you going to say people can play however they want then it’s pointless to even talk about t
The rai and raw of making use of the PHB and core books is that it does not replace anything but the core books.
what ever additional books you use, whether 2014 or 2024 are completely up to the DM. Wizards officially and repeatedly have said that 2024 is designed not to invalidate old books. there is nothing in the rai or raw that says you cant use 2014 content, they soecifically said you can.
.lets just compare lvl 3 potential
melee/ranged hybrid hexblade build
pact of the blade otherworldly leap fiendish vigor; magic initiate mage armor. Chr 17 dex 16 Con 14
ranged hex DPR light xbow, 1d8+3+d6. can force 1 one of 3 effects on hit, slow/op attack, take damage if attack anyone else, or disadvantage on next save. dpr 11.
melee hex DPR change as you need, longsword 12 dpr, twf when you have a BA 15-16dpr depending if you use pact weapon or not. + 4.5 if booming blade triggers.
this guy with fiendish vigor has 36max hp, 16 ac. can cast two spells per SR, and recover 1 freebie per day. with blade ward, they are close to the Ac of the dodge action, they surpass it with mirror image, while only giving up 3.5 damage (hex). they can use armor of agathys for defense and refresh it with fiendish vigor, dealing 10 damage when they take hits
monk at the same level 24 hp, 16 AC. 3 ki per short rest. refil one per day.
ranged damage = 6.5 melee damage. melee damage without ki when BA available = 13 dmg.
if monk didnt have deflect attacks this would be an obvious blow out.
fighter, same level
28 hp, 16-17 AC unless they some how got plate armor already. no active defense abilities, can equip a shield for+2 ac (less than blade ward)
ranged damage 8.5 (d10+3) melee damage with BA 13 (twf) or 9.5 if dueling with shield. 10 if 2d6 weapon.
So tell me again how low level hexblade is somehow inferior to martials without medium armor at low levels. The hexblade is the clear superior here.
better offense, survivability, movement (50 versus monks 40) can dash as a BA with expeditious if needed (=80 feet of monk dash) melee damage. can misty step tonescape if they wish. All fighter has going for it is mastery utility.
and they can change 1 invocation per level, and change out mage armor as a spell if they want when they level, so they arent married to this for level 4+ they can pick up agonizing blast when it actually is more damage, and drop fiendish vigor when its not that useful. they can also swap spells
they could also start with 13 con and 12 str if they plan to eventually get warcaster and want GWM options in combat later.
Hexblade is mechanically on par with other martials, superior in t1 and t2.
they dont need medium armor to be viable, they are not offensively or defensively lacking.
TLDR
Still a lot of words and the first sentence was wrong, so I didn’t read the rest. The rule is old replaces new. If there is an update you use the update. If there is no update you can use the old.
Still a lot of words and the first sentence was wrong, so I didn’t read the rest. The rule is old replaces new. If there is an update you use the update. If there is no update you can use the old.
so proud of being ignorant.
DMG DM guidance
"
Rulebooks
As the Dungeon Master, you need this book plus the Player’s Handbook (which contains most of the rules of the game) and the Monster Manual. Your players need access to the Player’s Handbook, too, but they can share as needed."
Let players know beforehand what books (other than the Player’s Handbook) they can reference during a playing session"
Adventures and Sourcebooks
Beyond the three core rulebooks, a plethora of additional content is available from Wizards of the Coast and other publishers. Adventures provide hooks, plots, maps, and encounters you can use in your game. Sourcebooks include things like new character options, new monsters, and inspiration for building your own adventures and campaigns. You can play D&D without any of these additional products, but many DMs (and players) find them to be exciting additions to the game."
the core books overwrite other things, everything outside of the core books is curated and selected by the DM. There is no requirement or even suggestion that you are supposed to eliminate content from future books, or that DMs should favor or ignore content from specific books over others.
The DM is never required or expected choose certain sourcebooks over others according to anything anyone has said or written.
everything after the first sentence is for those who want to actually figure out if they can use old source material with 2024, the answer is yes, the DM chooses what books/content outside of the core books are being used. This has not changed. There is no default expectation in 5e other than core books, everything else added is based on DM determination
For example, Whether you use the new forge of the artificer book, ebberon, or tasha's for your artificer is completely dependent on what the DM determines, they dont reccomend one over the other.
it would be somewhat ok with light armor, if he had shield prof. or if getting medium armor prof. still granted you the shield prof. but as it is, we have been presented with a class that needs to take 2 feats ( 1 of them for the shield & 1 for the medium armor ) to be somewhat survivalbe.
i can understand they wanted to nerf the old hexblade, but as it is presented it is the same concept they did with the paladin class, completly destroy the concept behind this subclass of a warlock that could melee and even take a hit.
As for the people saying you get the same AC with light armor as you do with medium is not a valid point imho, as the hexblade has no skirmishing abilities ( i would never use a 5th lvl spell slot for mirror image, mystic step ) they depend on going sword & board
so to have a realistic stat distr. ( chr 17, dex, 16, con 14, dump the rest ) you end up with : light armor : 12 + 3 = AC 15, that might look decent at lvl 1, but lvl 5+ its a death wish medium armor + shield = 15 + 2 ( dex ) + 2 ( shield ) thats 19, we are already talking about a 20% hit chance diff.
the only way you would not use a sword & board would be if you wanted to use a 2h weapon, for which you don't have the stats ( 13+ str also needed )
you can pick up mage armor spell or use invocation to get 16 armor.
and the fact that warlocks might cheaply use eldritch blast while using a shield is a reason its not a good idea to build it into the baseline.
outside of this, a sword and board user can only have d8 damage, and 2 attacks, unless they are a fighter, (who wont get 4 attacks until 20)
i dont think the best sword and board build should be eldritch blast.
and, warlock can actually get 5 attacks if they invest in dual wielding, so that is also an option with some merit.
i don't want to offend you, but i said that in the first sentence i wrote with shield i would be ok with light armor and no shield prof. but as it as right now if you want to get shield prof as a hexblade you have to take the light armor feat ( depends on the DM if he would even allow you to take that feat, since you already are prof. in light armor .... ) and then you would need to pick up athe medium armor feat, thats 2 feats to be able to do your job, that is a big investment which leaves you not much to choose for your other feat choices. And a subclass shouldn't be designed from the get go to have to take a 1+ lvl dip in ftr or paladin to be able to do his / her job
If you only wanted to use eldritch blast, why go for hexblade at all ? there are better warlock choices to do that .....
as for mage armor, that will still be 3 AC behind medium armor + shield if you go 16 dex with mage armor going all out with dual wield or greatsword might look okay at first glance and until you hit 5th level but 15 / 16 AC and beeing in melee after 5th+ level is just a wish to make death saves ( a CR 5 has about +8 to hit which comes up to a 65 - 70 % hit chance, where mediem + shield goes to a ~50% still not a tank but at least survivable for a round or two )
As the hexblade is presented there are only 3 paths if you will want to play one ( and i don't see more then a handful of players wanting to play it in this form ) 1.) play as a ranged eldritch blast glascannon => why use a hexblade for this playstyle when fiend + archfey, goo are way better suited for that playstyle 2.) dip 1+ lvl of ftr or paladin, 3+ lvl of valor bard to get med. armor + shield prof, might start with 1 lvl of ftr for that even 3.) take light armor + med. armor feat, depends on DM if he will allow the player to take light armor at all
And i don't honestly think that DM will want to ruin the fun for there players forcing them to play a subclass that just isn't worth taking
it would be somewhat ok with light armor, if he had shield prof. or if getting medium armor prof. still granted you the shield prof. but as it is, we have been presented with a class that needs to take 2 feats ( 1 of them for the shield & 1 for the medium armor ) to be somewhat survivalbe.
i can understand they wanted to nerf the old hexblade, but as it is presented it is the same concept they did with the paladin class, completly destroy the concept behind this subclass of a warlock that could melee and even take a hit.
As for the people saying you get the same AC with light armor as you do with medium is not a valid point imho, as the hexblade has no skirmishing abilities ( i would never use a 5th lvl spell slot for mirror image, mystic step ) they depend on going sword & board
so to have a realistic stat distr. ( chr 17, dex, 16, con 14, dump the rest ) you end up with : light armor : 12 + 3 = AC 15, that might look decent at lvl 1, but lvl 5+ its a death wish medium armor + shield = 15 + 2 ( dex ) + 2 ( shield ) thats 19, we are already talking about a 20% hit chance diff.
the only way you would not use a sword & board would be if you wanted to use a 2h weapon, for which you don't have the stats ( 13+ str also needed )
you can pick up mage armor spell or use invocation to get 16 armor.
and the fact that warlocks might cheaply use eldritch blast while using a shield is a reason its not a good idea to build it into the baseline.
outside of this, a sword and board user can only have d8 damage, and 2 attacks, unless they are a fighter, (who wont get 4 attacks until 20)
i dont think the best sword and board build should be eldritch blast.
and, warlock can actually get 5 attacks if they invest in dual wielding, so that is also an option with some merit.
i don't want to offend you, but i said that in the first sentence i wrote with shield i would be ok with light armor and no shield prof. but as it as right now if you want to get shield prof as a hexblade you have to take the light armor feat ( depends on the DM if he would even allow you to take that feat, since you already are prof. in light armor .... ) and then you would need to pick up athe medium armor feat, thats 2 feats to be able to do your job, that is a big investment which leaves you not much to choose for your other feat choices. And a subclass shouldn't be designed from the get go to have to take a 1+ lvl dip in ftr or paladin to be able to do his / her job
If you only wanted to use eldritch blast, why go for hexblade at all ? there are better warlock choices to do that .....
as for mage armor, that will still be 3 AC behind medium armor + shield if you go 16 dex with mage armor going all out with dual wield or greatsword might look okay at first glance and until you hit 5th level but 15 / 16 AC and beeing in melee after 5th+ level is just a wish to make death saves ( a CR 5 has about +8 to hit which comes up to a 65 - 70 % hit chance, where mediem + shield goes to a ~50% still not a tank but at least survivable for a round or two )
As the hexblade is presented there are only 3 paths if you will want to play one ( and i don't see more then a handful of players wanting to play it in this form ) 1.) play as a ranged eldritch blast glascannon => why use a hexblade for this playstyle when fiend + archfey, goo are way better suited for that playstyle 2.) dip 1+ lvl of ftr or paladin, 3+ lvl of valor bard to get med. armor + shield prof, might start with 1 lvl of ftr for that even 3.) take light armor + med. armor feat, depends on DM if he will allow the player to take light armor at all
And i don't honestly think that DM will want to ruin the fun for there players forcing them to play a subclass that just isn't worth taking
The idea is to make hexblade in a way that both the EB and the PotB options are both viable the same as it is in fiend, fey and goo. If the issue is that other subclasses do blast better that isn't a reason to make hexblade focus more on melee that is a reason to make the hexblade options better in general to make it better all around.
A pure blade lock feylock is completely viable without getting extra armor. 16 dex + light armor= 15 AC + Blade ward = 16-19 AC, armor of shadows makes that 17-20 AC doesn't use resources, but does use concentration. Add in the teleports, temp hp and reactions and it is fine.
Hexblade in this UA doesn't have anything that pushes it towards being melee, but it does have tools to make it succeed in melee including draining slash, allowing the hexblade to act as a bit of a skirmisher though risky, hungering hex, which provides actual healing and not just temp hp, armor of hexes this comes in really late but it is flat reduction to damage you take which extends the life and effectiveness of spells like armor of agathys.
Is this strong enough as it is written? no, but the fact that it is weak doesn't mean it now has to be 100% Pact of the Blade in the next iteration it means it needs to be buffed up a significant amount to be viable as either blade or EB version. Because right now fiend lock, fey lock and goo lock aren't just better at the EB version they are better at the PotB as well. They are just better subclasses.
It’s pretty much a consensus at this point: the new Hexblade is underwhelming. Yet some still try to defend it by pointing to abilities that kind of do the job—but only halfway. Just look at the broader D&D community—this issue is being raised everywhere.
We’re not asking for a brand-new subclass. We just want the original Hexblade properly updated. And honestly, what’s needed is simple:
Bring back Hexblade’s Curse, fueled by a limited number of Charisma-based uses.
Hex Warrior should include support for dual wielding, armor proficiency, and access to Weapon Mastery.
Accursed Specter should be replaced with Summon Undead—it was a flavorful and fun mechanic that added a unique feel to the subclass. It's been removed, even though it's frequently mentioned in community feedback and videos.
Hex Armor was perfectly fine—why change it for something worse?
Level 14 Feature – This is a high-level ability; it should feel impactful. Either enhance Hexblade’s Curse or introduce a meaningful new feature that truly fits the subclass.
It’s pretty much a consensus at this point: the new Hexblade is underwhelming. Yet some still try to defend it by pointing to abilities that kind of do the job—but only halfway. Just look at the broader D&D community—this issue is being raised everywhere.
We’re not asking for a brand-new subclass. We just want the original Hexblade properly updated. And honestly, what’s needed is simple:
Bring back Hexblade’s Curse, fueled by a limited number of Charisma-based uses.
Hex Warrior should include support for dual wielding, armor proficiency, and access to Weapon Mastery.
Accursed Specter should be replaced with Summon Undead—it was a flavorful and fun mechanic that added a unique feel to the subclass. It's been removed, even though it's frequently mentioned in community feedback and videos.
Hex Armor was perfectly fine—why change it for something worse?
Level 14 Feature – This is a high-level ability; it should feel impactful. Either enhance Hexblade’s Curse or introduce a meaningful new feature that truly fits the subclass.
I agree with CHA MOD Curses per Long Rest and maybe regain 1 use when using Magical Cunning
With Hex warrior allow Pact of the Blade to bond to 2 weapons with limited options for Fighting Style and ONE mastery associated to the Weapon that is your patron. (For Dual Wield) as class feature
If you defeat a target that is hexed or cursed, you get an animated weapon (Matching the patron) instead of Undead or Spector...Patron "Thank you for feeding me. Here is a companion for you."
Keep the 2014 Armor of hexes. 5 times per long rest vs once evert round (Unlimited) .. 21 points of damage reduction vs 100% damage reduction on an attack. I vote original version
Why would I want a feature given at start of subclass as a capstone? and a 1 target 1D6 splash damage as a capstone. The game is almost over and now I can keep Hex (What is powering ALL my subclass features) _up when getting hit.
it would be somewhat ok with light armor, if he had shield prof. or if getting medium armor prof. still granted you the shield prof. but as it is, we have been presented with a class that needs to take 2 feats ( 1 of them for the shield & 1 for the medium armor ) to be somewhat survivalbe.
i can understand they wanted to nerf the old hexblade, but as it is presented it is the same concept they did with the paladin class, completly destroy the concept behind this subclass of a warlock that could melee and even take a hit.
As for the people saying you get the same AC with light armor as you do with medium is not a valid point imho, as the hexblade has no skirmishing abilities ( i would never use a 5th lvl spell slot for mirror image, mystic step ) they depend on going sword & board
so to have a realistic stat distr. ( chr 17, dex, 16, con 14, dump the rest ) you end up with : light armor : 12 + 3 = AC 15, that might look decent at lvl 1, but lvl 5+ its a death wish medium armor + shield = 15 + 2 ( dex ) + 2 ( shield ) thats 19, we are already talking about a 20% hit chance diff.
the only way you would not use a sword & board would be if you wanted to use a 2h weapon, for which you don't have the stats ( 13+ str also needed )
you can pick up mage armor spell or use invocation to get 16 armor.
and the fact that warlocks might cheaply use eldritch blast while using a shield is a reason its not a good idea to build it into the baseline.
outside of this, a sword and board user can only have d8 damage, and 2 attacks, unless they are a fighter, (who wont get 4 attacks until 20)
i dont think the best sword and board build should be eldritch blast.
and, warlock can actually get 5 attacks if they invest in dual wielding, so that is also an option with some merit.
i don't want to offend you, but i said that in the first sentence i wrote with shield i would be ok with light armor and no shield prof. but as it as right now if you want to get shield prof as a hexblade you have to take the light armor feat ( depends on the DM if he would even allow you to take that feat, since you already are prof. in light armor .... ) and then you would need to pick up athe medium armor feat, thats 2 feats to be able to do your job, that is a big investment which leaves you not much to choose for your other feat choices. And a subclass shouldn't be designed from the get go to have to take a 1+ lvl dip in ftr or paladin to be able to do his / her job
If you only wanted to use eldritch blast, why go for hexblade at all ? there are better warlock choices to do that .....
as for mage armor, that will still be 3 AC behind medium armor + shield if you go 16 dex with mage armor going all out with dual wield or greatsword might look okay at first glance and until you hit 5th level but 15 / 16 AC and beeing in melee after 5th+ level is just a wish to make death saves ( a CR 5 has about +8 to hit which comes up to a 65 - 70 % hit chance, where mediem + shield goes to a ~50% still not a tank but at least survivable for a round or two )
As the hexblade is presented there are only 3 paths if you will want to play one ( and i don't see more then a handful of players wanting to play it in this form ) 1.) play as a ranged eldritch blast glascannon => why use a hexblade for this playstyle when fiend + archfey, goo are way better suited for that playstyle 2.) dip 1+ lvl of ftr or paladin, 3+ lvl of valor bard to get med. armor + shield prof, might start with 1 lvl of ftr for that even 3.) take light armor + med. armor feat, depends on DM if he will allow the player to take light armor at all
And i don't honestly think that DM will want to ruin the fun for there players forcing them to play a subclass that just isn't worth taking
So are you saying hexblade needs medium armor and shield or not?
because you are saying you are fine with light armor and and no shield proficiency, but then go on to say you need to take two feats to do your job.
whether you are satisfied with 16 AC or want more is up to you, you can invest more into dex later levels. but the reality is 17 AC is all that many martials have to do their job.
barbarian has 17 AC and a greatsword/dual wield while using reckless, which is their default offensive pkaystyle, they have effectively like 14 AC.
monk has 17 AC until level 12, and thats if they dont take a second feat
rogue maxes out at 17 AC
ranger has 17 Ac while using bows, dual wielding
fact is, most martial are not using shields. it is not a requirement to do your job.
if the warlock could only get 16 ac and had no active defenses it might be an issue, but that is not the case, they can lower enemy accuracy, they can give themselves temp hp, they can stun enemies, they can create decoys. they heal on kill, they can negate damage.
the reason i bring up eldritch blast is not because i want to eldritch blast with a shield, but rather its a way some people will play the subclass, and want to play the subclass. Also, Yall say other subclasses are better at eldtrich blast spam, i dont see it.
archfey: nothing about archfey that has any particular synergy with using eldritch blast. the closest thing that interacts is faerie fire being automatically on your list. You could use all the evasiveness to kite better, but thats not really giving any specific benefit to eldritch blast playstyle. You can use eldritch blast with no intention to kite.
hexblade on the other hand has specific and repeated synergies based on using attacks.
extra damage with attack rolls.
three effects to choose from when you land an attack roll
guaranteed damage if you miss with an attack roll
expanded crit range with attack rolls
spread damage to other targets when you land an attack roll
archfey is about being evasive
celestial is about support and holy flavor
fiend is mostly flavor, i dont think it has a specific gameplay theme.
Goo, is also attack based, giving advantage and some hex interactions, but less so than hexblade.
so you say after 5 they will struggle.
but i just tested this out with a level 12 melee focused hexblade, vs a horded devil, level 11
warlock, gwm 16 AC 84hp
this would be considered beyond deadly solo. for a group of 4, you might have 2 of these guys and a CR 8 guy, or a bunch of weaker guys.
things of note, warlock base class is strong and versatile.
specific things hexblade added, disadvantage on next save negated their magic resistence, allowing synaptic static to persist.
hex armor was extremely useful with armor of agaythys, reducing damage allowed it to last for 3 hits, or 75 damage. this wouldnt be the case otherwise
i missed two attacks, so that feature added 10 damage.
i beat it in 4 rounds, (going second) ending the fight with 55/84 hp then recovered 10 for a final of 65/84 Hp
that is a very good result for a high difficulty encounter where near same CR monster focused you every round.
synaptic static, armor of agathys. was my pact spells.
the subclass isnt perfect, id give it another pass, but hexblade is not lacking in defense.
Still a lot of words and the first sentence was wrong, so I didn’t read the rest. The rule is old replaces new. If there is an update you use the update. If there is no update you can use the old.
so proud of being ignorant.
DMG DM guidance
"
Rulebooks
As the Dungeon Master, you need this book plus the Player’s Handbook (which contains most of the rules of the game) and the Monster Manual. Your players need access to the Player’s Handbook, too, but they can share as needed."
Let players know beforehand what books (other than the Player’s Handbook) they can reference during a playing session"
Adventures and Sourcebooks
Beyond the three core rulebooks, a plethora of additional content is available from Wizards of the Coast and other publishers. Adventures provide hooks, plots, maps, and encounters you can use in your game. Sourcebooks include things like new character options, new monsters, and inspiration for building your own adventures and campaigns. You can play D&D without any of these additional products, but many DMs (and players) find them to be exciting additions to the game."
the core books overwrite other things, everything outside of the core books is curated and selected by the DM. There is no requirement or even suggestion that you are supposed to eliminate content from future books, or that DMs should favor or ignore content from specific books over others.
The DM is never required or expected choose certain sourcebooks over others according to anything anyone has said or written.
everything after the first sentence is for those who want to actually figure out if they can use old source material with 2024, the answer is yes, the DM chooses what books/content outside of the core books are being used. This has not changed. There is no default expectation in 5e other than core books, everything else added is based on DM determination
For example, Whether you use the new forge of the artificer book, ebberon, or tasha's for your artificer is completely dependent on what the DM determines, they dont reccomend one over the other.
It’s nice that they put that in the DMG for at home play, but if you want the rules they consider best for all you only have to look at AL.
You can use non-optional rules found in the Player’s Handbook, the Basic Rules, and all the books listed below. If a rule has been reprinted in a newer resource, you must always use the latest printing.
Adventurers League is not the best rules, they are just an agreed upon set of rules for a specific mode of play. The official rules are the ones in the phb/mm/dmg, and its the most common way dnd is played.
the adventurers leagues rules are designed to facilitate short adventures and sharing your charachter's progress among many different tables/adventures. It already limits your options and game content beyond what is available, and is not a good indicator of compatibility since they edit whats in AL every year with no real explanation.
again you need to take 2 feats for medium armor + shield and this is a must have a hexblade has nothing to stay in melee and survive.
For your demonstration that sounds good on paper but in my calculations the Warlock is dead by round 4. And the chance that synatic static will hold for 4 rounds is very slim since Stymying Mark. and the horned devil adv. cancel each other out .....
And the chance that the warlock will keep his concentration on hex is very slim, with him having to do 2 conc saves every round in average
My opionen stands and most of the people her agree, there is absolute zero place for the hexblade subclass as it is presented. It might work as a eldritch blast build, but we don't need another subclass for that which isnt even very well suited for that.
it could be fixed pretty easy : - light armor + shield prof would fix the most important issue - like others said give their hex feature to an ability it doesn't need to concentrate on
And i stand firmly any class wanting to melee and not having skirmish abilitys ( rogue, monk ) needs to have a shield, 16 AC has no place at the front
again you need to take 2 feats for medium armor + shield and this is a must have a hexblade has nothing to stay in melee and survive.
And worse than needing two feats: one of those is essentially a lost feat because in order to get shield training, the hexblade has to take the Lightly Armored feat....even though they already have training in light armor.
I'm finding people saying "most martials don't use shields" to be out of their gourds.
again you need to take 2 feats for medium armor + shield and this is a must have a hexblade has nothing to stay in melee and survive.
And worse than needing two feats: one of those is essentially a lost feat because in order to get shield training, the hexblade has to take the Lightly Armored feat....even though they already have training in light armor.
I'm finding people saying "most martials don't use shields" to be out of their gourds.
Ranged builds don’t, TWF don’t, great weapon/polearm users don’t, rogues generally don’t, monks almost always don’t- though I’m sure there’s some edge case/contrarian build, and even some one-handed builds might skip them for aesthetic reasons. They’re not rare by any means, but nor are they necessary equipment.
again you need to take 2 feats for medium armor + shield and this is a must have a hexblade has nothing to stay in melee and survive.
For your demonstration that sounds good on paper but in my calculations the Warlock is dead by round 4. And the chance that synatic static will hold for 4 rounds is very slim since Stymying Mark. and the horned devil adv. cancel each other out .....
And the chance that the warlock will keep his concentration on hex is very slim, with him having to do 2 conc saves every round in average
My opionen stands and most of the people her agree, there is absolute zero place for the hexblade subclass as it is presented. It might work as a eldritch blast build, but we don't need another subclass for that which isnt even very well suited for that.
it could be fixed pretty easy : - light armor + shield prof would fix the most important issue - like others said give their hex feature to an ability it doesn't need to concentrate on
And i stand firmly any class wanting to melee and not having skirmish abilitys ( rogue, monk ) needs to have a shield, 16 AC has no place at the front
i didnt jsimulate it, i actually ran the combat, but if you want to simulate various martials and see their survivability, lets do that.
some things first
i did lose concentration some on hex, but hex is BA action and i can reapply it 5 times per day. as GWM my BA isnt always being used.
the DC of breaking out of static is 17, by making it not done with advantage it lasted 3/4 rounds. without advantage, and a +1 int, its chance of meeting or beating a 17 is 25%
the chance of it lasting per round can be figured out
armor of agathis essentially increases HP by 25.
medium armor + shield is not a must have for martials, most barbarians do not use shields, no great weapon user uses shields, no dual wield build uses shields There is only one subset of martials that use shields, one handed build charachters.
medium armor does not offer more AC than mage armor, or light armor+1 the difference here is not in AC its in where you can put your other stats.
also, i rechecked my warlock and its numbers were off, it actually would have had 99 hp, and 17 AC. there was an issue with the VTT not counting level 11 and 12 properly.
If you arent willing to risk going in melee with hexblades defenses without a shield, you wouldnt be willing to play most martials, because their defenses without a shield are comparable to other martials with a shield.
the only "martial" that i think might have more is paladin, due to its spell lists, and features like lay on hands.
and yes people may say they think the class is weak or poor, but without some actual data and comparisons, we cant actually take it as more than opinion.
A shielded fighter isnt outlasting hexblade. 112 hp, 20 AC, 55% chance to get hit by fork 42.9 damage per round, recovers 17.5 second wind on their turn. lasts 4.24 rounds on average,
A barbarian with a shield, 19 AC (125 hp, 50% chance to get hit, half damage does nothing against hurl flame. -39.75per round on average) lasts 3.98 rounds relentless rage can probably last 1 more round, maybe 2. so 4 to 5 rounds.
monk spamming dodge doesnt, 87 hp, 42.25% chance to get hit by hurl flame (which they cant deflect at 12) they get 13 temp hp per round. Lasts 4.24 rounds
hexblade, AC 17 hp99(+12false life+25 armor of agathys= 136) 52.5 chance to land fork with static. 40.95 dmg per round, reduce damage by 14 per round, 26.95 -5.5= 21.4 lifedrinker, lasts up to 6.35
but lets say synaptic might fail, so lets pick something just to be less random, another armor of agathys cast
17 AC 161hp with two agathys and false life. 70% chance to get hit by fork for 54.6 per round, -14 hex armor 40.6 -5.5life drinker = 4.58 rounds on average
however, the only one of these classes with a good chance of killing the enemy in 4 rounds, and surviving 4-5 rounds+ is warlock. armor of agathys, 2 times will do between 100 and 150 damage, in the case of using armor of agathis twice, probably within the first 3 rounds. Since GWM averages 38.6 damage per round with hex (19.5*3*.60-3.5 lifedrinker) it likely dies in 3 -4 rounds.
the monk can only do 12.6 dpr damage while turtling (it would take 15 rounds to kill)
the fighter can do 20.7 dpr, but lets say they action surge once, so lets say an average of 24.5 a round (more than 8 rounds)
the barbarian can only do 15 dpr, but subclasses can boost that, or boost its survivability, regardless, it still cant come close to the damage, while being defensive, they can probably get it up to 24ish with berseker/zealot from reaction attacks and can probably extend their lives by 1 or 2 rounds form other subs (8-9 rounds)
there are build variations, but hexblade is performing very well in melee compared to melee focused classes.
and monk gains nothing by disengaging, monk does very poor damage if its not in melee every single turn, and using its BA for disengage doesnt help anyone in the party, or increase its survivability. in order to get into melle, and leave melee, you will spend movement going , and coming, this means you are probably with 20 or 40 feet of the monster (if you want to use step of the wind every turn) Not only does almost every monster have ranged options in 2024, but usually the monster will be able to reach you with melee. using dodge is likely more effective, and at least reduces the parties damage taken per round if you are targeted. monk is not an example of a class that uses its mobility to reduce damage taken.
Many casters dont realize what martial survivability actually is. hexblade is very survivable AND gives up very little damage while doing so.
again you need to take 2 feats for medium armor + shield and this is a must have a hexblade has nothing to stay in melee and survive.
And worse than needing two feats: one of those is essentially a lost feat because in order to get shield training, the hexblade has to take the Lightly Armored feat....even though they already have training in light armor.
I'm finding people saying "most martials don't use shields" to be out of their gourds.
Ranged builds don’t, TWF don’t, great weapon/polearm users don’t, rogues generally don’t, monks almost always don’t- though I’m sure there’s some edge case/contrarian build, and even some one-handed builds might skip them for aesthetic reasons. They’re not rare by any means, but nor are they necessary equipment.
Sure. I'm not arguing an archer should necessarily be lugging a shield around. But it feels like, in this thread, it's being argued that very few melee martials bother with a shield, and that is not at all my experience. And I very much doubt that the greater majority of melee-focused martials are going shieldless.
Again, sure, there are melee martials who choose to use either reach weapons or twohanded weapons. But a lot of folks weigh the extra die of damage as not worth the cost of a lower AC.
again you need to take 2 feats for medium armor + shield and this is a must have a hexblade has nothing to stay in melee and survive.
And worse than needing two feats: one of those is essentially a lost feat because in order to get shield training, the hexblade has to take the Lightly Armored feat....even though they already have training in light armor.
I'm finding people saying "most martials don't use shields" to be out of their gourds.
Ranged builds don’t, TWF don’t, great weapon/polearm users don’t, rogues generally don’t, monks almost always don’t- though I’m sure there’s some edge case/contrarian build, and even some one-handed builds might skip them for aesthetic reasons. They’re not rare by any means, but nor are they necessary equipment.
Sure. I'm not arguing an archer should necessarily be lugging a shield around. But it feels like, in this thread, it's being argued that very few melee martials bother with a shield, and that is not at all my experience. And I very much doubt that the greater majority of melee-focused martials are going shieldless.
Again, sure, there are melee martials who choose to use either reach weapons or twohanded weapons. But a lot of folks weigh the extra die of damage as not worth the cost of a lower AC.
Do you have actual numbers proving that sword and board is that much more favored than TWF or great weapon? Or is this just speculation? At the end of the day, the objective fact is that as the game is designed, shields are not considered standard equipment for staying alive in melee.
you can pick up mage armor spell or use invocation to get 16 armor.
(I know this isn't what you were talking about here.)
I think maybe the right solution is to give the subclass the ability to substitute CHA for DEX when determining AC (and phrase it so it works for Mage Armor). This would give AC 18 once they get to CHA 20, and make the subclass a little more SAD. (And discourage feats, like GWM, that don't boost CHA early.)
oh yeah, if you give hexblade a shield, then eldritch blast and other spells basically becomes the best way to make use of a shield.
you can do d8+5 *2-3or you can do d10+5.*2-4
so, if you want this to be a class that isnt spamming eldritch blast, giving it a shield is not helping that at all.
the majority of martials don't use shields.
shields lock you out of many weapons and utility
monk cant use a shield.
rogue doesnt have shield built in.
barbarians design gives up AC for more accuracy damage and versatility
anyone who may want to quickly swap to a 2 handed ranged or melee weapon cant use a shield
anyone who may want to use dual wielding, nick, cant use shields.
anyone who may want to use reach cant use shields.
and shields give away more than a dice of damage, because the feats tied to great weapons and dual wielding and the light property are signifigant.
even at just level 12,
a barbarian with a shield no reckless does 15. if they had a polearm, they would have reach, their choice of cleave push or topple, and with reckless, 41.5 dpr so more than double damage lost by trying to turtle.
fighter with polearm, and gwm swap on action surge, averages about 36dpr, and has whatever weapon mastery, or weapon property, or weapon range they need on deck. vs 24 with shield,
even pld sacrifices a lot, since they have divine favor and blessing adding to on hit damage. But since pld provides a lot of support, its ok if their damage is sub optimal, that is not the case for most martials.
and one thing to keep in mind in 5e, is there is no direct tanking, you can't even be sure you will be the target of monsters, and you cant be sure they wint target saves. so you really arent getting a lot of value for that large reduction in damage and versatility.
there are definitely some martials who use shields, but i doubt its the majority.
that aside, its not really about regular martials with shields
the thing is that hexblades (and many other casters) can get as much defense/mitigation/recovery. as martials without using shields. Shields are mostly difficult for casters to access because it makes them extremely tanky if they specialize. Thats why in UA lightly armored was a lvl 1 (origin possible) feat that gave medium armor and shields and everyone rioted. Because they didnt feel arcane ish casters should get easy access to defense in addition to their magical defenses.
also casters dont pay a dpr or versatility price for using shields.
Hexblade likely got its base AC nerfed because you cant take away its baseline warlock features which will always make playing a hexblade as a ranged caster with a shield superior to playing as a weapon wielding charachter with a shield.
there is no way to solve that unless hexblade disables a lot of its spells and features while equipping a shield.
( i would never use a 5th lvl spell slot for mirror image, mystic step )
Um.. obviously? You use a 5th level spell slot for Synaptic Static which debuffs enemy attack rolls giving the entire party an effective +3.5 bonus to AC. Or you use it for Shadow of Moil or Greater Invisibility which makes enemy attacks against you permanently at disadvantage giving an effective +3-+5 AC. It's very simple design: If a caster wants to keep up in melee they have to spend their spellslots to do so. No free lunches anymore, either you cast spells to do spell-things and are weaker in melee, or you spend spellslots to do melee-stuff and keep up with martials who don't get that choice.
I don't disagree with your approach. It's also the reason why I'm so vehemently against making the Hexblade subclass revolve around Hex to hog up their Concentration. I don't want a Subclass where I'm torn between using my spell slots to stay alive and to actually have a Subclass. SS does have repeated saving throws against WIS, so it is not really that reliable as a defense, but definitely better than casting Mirror Image for a vast majority of cases. However you also cannot rely on backwards compatibility to make the Hexblade function at higher levels, as you have to assume that not everyone is allowing backwards compatibility and only use 2024 and later rules. Also Greater Invisibility is not on the Warlock spell list, not in 2024 nor in 2014 - it is in the Archfey Subclass though. Having the Hexblade subclass provide you with new spells that can fulfill this defensive purpose would be a good thing IMO, and on brand with the memo that you use your magic to amplify your Martial prowess.
Although I do think the Warlock as it stands don't have sufficient means to go into melee and not feel inferior, so I was looking for the Hexblade subclass to assist on their defenses like it did in 2014, and to do it before level 10. And TBH Armor of Hexes only working against your hex'ed target is... not great either. I'm also a strong supporter of multi-classing and is very aware how easy it is to start 1 level Fighter for all the proficiencies and then go over to Warlock. If Warlock got the Armor Training by themselves (through Hexblade) it would reduce the benefit of multiclassing. Additionally if you provide the Warlock some other means of defenses that is not armor, there's a very real risk that combining Armor Training from the Fighter and adding Warlock's other measures, would simply make it a lot stronger than what is healthy. Having said that I also consider the Armor-limits that some classes put into their features is... inelegant and not fun. Basically the more self-contained you make mechanics, the more safe they are and the less fun they are to build with because you can't combine it with most anything. I understand it as a necessary evil to not break the game, but if possible would like to avoid it.
I do think there's a possible route where you make the Hexblade more into a drain-tank: Basically you don't focus as much on straight damage reduction (like AC) but instead increase your HP and recovery during combat. No the Hungering Hex's on-death healing is not dependable, it relies extremely on the DM providing you with basically MMO-adds to recover on. If your party is attacked by a Troll then Hungering Hex does nothing for you. Arcane Vigor uses up your spell slots AND your Hit Dice, and its not very efficient at all. AV has similar healing (2d8 + CHA) as Healing Word at level 2 (4d4 + CHA), but even in the scaling here HW beats it by adding 2d4 per level where AV only adds 1d8. HW also don't chew through your Hit Dice (that could otherwise be used during Short Rests and the Lifedrinker invocation), HW can be used on allies, but does require your Origin Feat/Invocation for Lessons of Old Ones. I just don't think the UA Hexblade is the way to go about it.
pact of the blade otherworldly leap fiendish vigor; magic initiate mage armor. Chr 17 dex 16 Con 14
ranged hex DPR light xbow, 1d8+3+d6. can force 1 one of 3 effects on hit, slow/op attack, take damage if attack anyone else, or disadvantage on next save. dpr 11.
melee hex DPR change as you need, longsword 12 dpr, twf when you have a BA 15-16dpr depending if you use pact weapon or not. + 4.5 if booming blade triggers.
this guy with fiendish vigor has 36max hp, 16 ac. can cast two spells per SR, and recover 1 freebie per day. with blade ward, they are close to the Ac of the dodge action, they surpass it with mirror image, while only giving up 3.5 damage (hex). they can use armor of agathys for defense and refresh it with fiendish vigor, dealing 10 damage when they take hits
First of all, it seems very convenient that you assume the Hexblade uses their Hex to pump DPR and none of the others use any limited resource. Additionally we account for Origin Feat being Magic Initiate whereas none of the others get anything. Skewed comparison.
Second of all you can't use TWF with Booming Blade, because the Light property specifically uses the Attack Action as a hook to enable the BA-attack. And BB's trigger happens basically never in regular combat.
This stat spread also means you have 8 in STR and likely INT with 10 in WIS. So your saves for tier 2 and especially 3+ is... quite a weakness. The backside to any MAD character.
I also calculate the TWF with Hex up is 17 DPR, with 10 DPR on the first round and any round where you have to transfer Hex. Lets be generous and assume 3 rounds bashing the same Hex'ed target; 10 + 17x2 = 14.7 DPR
monk at the same level 24 hp, 16 AC. 3 ki per short rest. refil one per day.
ranged damage = 6.5 melee damage. melee damage without ki when BA available = 13 dmg.
if monk didnt have deflect attacks this would be an obvious blow out.
Yeah, monks don't really do ranged combat all that much. But if you're going to be fair, they would dual-wield daggers and throw them, using their movement to go into short-range and then leave. So it's 2d6 + 3 = 10 DPR.
Monks are one of the only classes that actually get a fair bit of mileage out of Origin feat: Tavern Brawler. On a d6 it adds 0.41 average DPR from the rerolls. So the melee damage without using limited resources could easily be 13.8 DPR.
They could also pick up Magic Initiate Druid for Shillelagh and a Quarterstaff for their main hand to deal d8. That's 14 DPR. Have Cure Wounds or Healing Word in the backhand for a little healing.
Also spending KI for damage here is not at the cost of your Action economy. So whilst a Warlock have spell slots for damage, utility, healing, they do it with a cost of their Action Economy. The Monk spends KI to improve their Actions. With the recovery from Uncanny Metabolism available, there's basically no reason not to spend your KI whenever you can. So add +3.5 + 3 to the DPR (20.5) , and then +0.4 with the Tavern Brawler kit (20.7). Most combat encounters are expected to last 3-4 rounds, so at this point KI is available for bonus strikes most of the time. Might as well reflect that.
Deflect Attack whenever you do get hit with your 16 AC, is reducing damage on average; 5.5 + 3 + 3 = 11.5 damage. On this level that's likely going to reduce that damage to 0 or near zero.
That's a lot more effective health than the Warlock and not trading offense. And if you make fair damage comparisons, the Monk is also pretty comfortably ahead by quite a bit in melee and not staggeringly behind on close range. Granted range damage doesn't scale well at all for Monk, but that's par for the course.
To dabble into subclasses;
Mercy: Doesn't really amp your DPR at this point as KI points are in short supply, but it technically is a guaranteed hit. So spending it on this or to make the 2nd Unarmed Strike with your BA, this is better because it is a rider on an already acquired hit.
Shadow: You get to dance with the ol' Darkness + Devil's Sight combo, you attack with ADV, they attack with DisADV. Your friends hate you.
Elements: You wanted 15 ft. reach? Basically granting Monk semi-ranged combat? Here you go. Hit at 15 ft. range, move 20 ft. away with your 40 ft. movement and reengage next round. Rinse repeat. You can even attempt to push the target away to keep you out of reach or get them off your allies on every single strike. Not really DPR increasing, but does have some defensive qualities.
Open Hand: Most gives some no-save maneuvers like the Hexblade's maneuvers.
Not super exciting for this comparison.
fighter, same level
28 hp, 16-17 AC unless they some how got plate armor already. no active defense abilities, can equip a shield for+2 ac (less than blade ward)
ranged damage 8.5 (d10+3) melee damage with BA 13 (twf) or 9.5 if dueling with shield. 10 if 2d6 weapon.
There's also no accounting for Fighting Styles in the comparison, a big part of being a Fighter. If you go Sword and Board, I would likely advice going Dueling to pump your offense, whilst a Two-Handed Fighter likely wants Defense to pad their AC. TWF picking up its TWF FS.
So that's 19 AC for Sword and Board, with a Longsword doing 10.5 DPR, inflicting DisADV on the target's next attack.
Or 18 AC for a Two-Hander, with a Greatsword doing 10 DPR. If we were to account hit rate of 65% (I believe this is the consensus average hit rate), then graze would add some DPR to the lowered DPR, turning 6.5 DPR into 7.6 DPR.
Or 17 AC for a TWF, with a Scimitar and a Shortsword, doing 13 DPR no BA required and with some ADV.
Ranged damage is indeed not very flashy. You could focus DEX over STR with a TWF build and stick with Medium Armor for only 16 AC at this point, making ranged combat competitive for ranged damage dealers.
Now lets add a subclass like the Battle Master. Riposte grants you access to turn 4 misses against you into Reaction-attacks with +1d8 damage on top. Replenishable on a Short Rest. This is more reliable than Armor of Agathys, and plays into your strength of high AC. Feinting is another very basic Maneuver that just grants ADV and +1d8 damage for a BA.
2x Second Wind for 1d10 + Fighter = 8.5 HP a piece for a BA. Replenishing 1x on Short Rest and all on Long Rest. Fighter don't use BA for much at this point, so it's not really a cost unlike Warlock popping Armor of Agathys or Fiendish Vigor.
So tell me again how low level hexblade is somehow inferior to martials without medium armor at low levels. The hexblade is the clear superior here.
better offense, survivability, movement (50 versus monks 40) can dash as a BA with expeditious if needed (=80 feet of monk dash) melee damage. can misty step tonescape if they wish. All fighter has going for it is mastery utility.
I mean Warlock looks superior if you don't compare them fairly... that's true...
Hexblade is mechanically on par with other martials, superior in t1 and t2.
they dont need medium armor to be viable, they are not offensively or defensively lacking.
You're wrong, the Hexblade is not on par with other martials and definitely not superior in t1 and t2.
The UA hexblade requires a MAD spread of stats. It is a non-tank frontliner and have quite a few weaknesses built into the subclass - namely a non-impressive AC, the MAD spread AND a reliance on a Concentration spell, where their AC doesn't help them avoid hits as much (unlike other gishes like Bladesinger/Valor Bard), their MAD spread likely causes their CON save to remain low (+2) which causes concentration breaks often. Just a small hit with flat DC 10 is 35% chance of dropping Concentration. For ASIs you're forced to prioritize between more AC to keep being in melee or more CHA for damage, spell and skill relevancy. Other melee martials don't have this problem, either because armor covers for them or because AC improvements are overlapping with attack improvements.
Starting tier 2, enemies are likely to have a +5 to hit (+3 prof. +2 stat) at least. Meaning attack rolls hit your 16 AC about half the time. You don't have a Reaction to cushion damage like Monk and Rogue. You don't have the AC of a Fighter or Paladin. You don't have the HP nor damage resistance nor AC of a Barbarian. Spells like Shield, Arcane Vigor only works to a very limited extend due to spell slots (and Hit Dice). You're not on par with martials in melee.
booming blade isnt used when you use twf, it used when you arent, aka using your BA on something else, like a spell or applying hex.
the comparison was elemental monk who isnt gaining baseline damage at level 3, its also mostly supposed to compare someone who cares about defense, and being in melle/ranged hybrid combat.
i didnt compare ki use for damage here, because this was a baseline comparison, hex is its own resources. This was a top line view, i later go into more explicit use. But the point is the monk can use its ki for defense in comparison to warlock using pact slots for defense. The warlock could also use pact slots for offense like the monk could use it for offense. in this anayisis i didnt compare, but i can tell you that the best offensive value of ki at level 3 is one attack, or d6+3. or the reaction deflect attacks, 2MA+dex the save does zero damage if the succeed, so these are pretty close in value. about 4 or 5. if we choose 5 (deflect attacks), its 15 damage per SR.
the offensive value of a pact slots at level 3 is 2 level 2 spells. if we want one warlock that best compares its hellish rebuke, which at level is 3d10 with half damage on success roughly thats 75% damage on average for 12.375 per, or 24.75 dpr per SR. without effecting other sources if dpr. that said i wasnt going to assume the monk was going to use its ki offensively, since this in reply to a post about how the monk could be a skirmisher, and might be using ki for step of the wind or patient defense.
and as i said, if the monk didnt have deflect attacks there would be no comparison. using its ki still leaves it behind the hex by itself. a monk can expect, 1 SR per day and has uncanny metobolism, for 9ki per day, or 45 damage. hex given 1.5 attacks per round and 16 rounds a day, would be 84 damage. it might vary due to losing concentration, but in that comparison ki is being expended to combat hex, so that means the value of pact slots is not included. assuming the same rest structure, the warlock gets 5 pact slots. which, if we are examing dpr is 12.375 per slot. even assuming we are using pact slots defensively to temper deflect attacks, armor of agathys does damage.
which brings up false life and armor of agathys, those can be used pre combat since their durations are large, and in combat, due to thier combo, they still do damage while providing defense.
and this is why i skimmed over them, because their durations value and application of which is a better defense depends on what type of combat and your tactics and role. And the warlock might not even go that route opting for mirror images, which has a different optimal defensive strategy.
to be honest, i only examined this level because the poster wanted to talk about lower level comparisons, most people agree hexblade has no issues at this level. ranger and hexblade will dominate in t1 and t2 discussions due to the nature of hex and HM.
as for being 15=20 feet away being ranged combat, i mean if you consider ranged combat being anything more than 5 feet away as ranged combat sure, but that means polearms are ranged combat. And you are not getting much melee protection at these ranges. if a monster can walk up to you and melee without dashing, you arent much safer than being 5 feet away from it. they can use their melee abilities, and put opportunity attack pressure on you. the main advantage is an offensive one, of being able to choose from more targets, from more positions.
most mages dont consider their 10 or 20 foot cones as 'ranged' options but if we want to consider midrange combat options, warlock still wins. it can also throw daggers for 2d6+2d4+3 compared to monks 2d6+3 at range.
If you really believe a martial class blows hexblade's offense/defense out the water at a specific level range, pick one and we can do a more in depth analysis.
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TLDR
Still a lot of words and the first sentence was wrong, so I didn’t read the rest. The rule is old replaces new. If there is an update you use the update. If there is no update you can use the old.
so proud of being ignorant.
DMG DM guidance
"
Rulebooks
As the Dungeon Master, you need this book plus the Player’s Handbook (which contains most of the rules of the game) and the Monster Manual. Your players need access to the Player’s Handbook, too, but they can share as needed."
Let players know beforehand what books (other than the Player’s Handbook) they can reference during a playing session"
Adventures and Sourcebooks
Beyond the three core rulebooks, a plethora of additional content is available from Wizards of the Coast and other publishers. Adventures provide hooks, plots, maps, and encounters you can use in your game. Sourcebooks include things like new character options, new monsters, and inspiration for building your own adventures and campaigns. You can play D&D without any of these additional products, but many DMs (and players) find them to be exciting additions to the game."
the core books overwrite other things, everything outside of the core books is curated and selected by the DM. There is no requirement or even suggestion that you are supposed to eliminate content from future books, or that DMs should favor or ignore content from specific books over others.
The DM is never required or expected choose certain sourcebooks over others according to anything anyone has said or written.
everything after the first sentence is for those who want to actually figure out if they can use old source material with 2024, the answer is yes, the DM chooses what books/content outside of the core books are being used. This has not changed. There is no default expectation in 5e other than core books, everything else added is based on DM determination
For example, Whether you use the new forge of the artificer book, ebberon, or tasha's for your artificer is completely dependent on what the DM determines, they dont reccomend one over the other.
i don't want to offend you, but i said that in the first sentence i wrote with shield
i would be ok with light armor and no shield prof. but as it as right now if you want to get shield prof as a hexblade you have to take the light armor feat ( depends on the DM if he would even allow you to take that feat, since you already are prof. in light armor .... ) and then you would need to pick up athe medium armor feat, thats 2 feats to be able to do your job, that is a big investment which leaves you not much to choose for your other feat choices.
And a subclass shouldn't be designed from the get go to have to take a 1+ lvl dip in ftr or paladin to be able to do his / her job
If you only wanted to use eldritch blast, why go for hexblade at all ? there are better warlock choices to do that .....
as for mage armor, that will still be 3 AC behind medium armor + shield if you go 16 dex with mage armor
going all out with dual wield or greatsword might look okay at first glance and until you hit 5th level but 15 / 16 AC and beeing in melee after 5th+ level is just a wish to make death saves ( a CR 5 has about +8 to hit which comes up to a 65 - 70 % hit chance, where mediem + shield goes to a ~50% still not a tank but at least survivable for a round or two )
As the hexblade is presented there are only 3 paths if you will want to play one ( and i don't see more then a handful of players wanting to play it in this form )
1.) play as a ranged eldritch blast glascannon => why use a hexblade for this playstyle when fiend + archfey, goo are way better suited for that playstyle
2.) dip 1+ lvl of ftr or paladin, 3+ lvl of valor bard to get med. armor + shield prof, might start with 1 lvl of ftr for that even
3.) take light armor + med. armor feat, depends on DM if he will allow the player to take light armor at all
And i don't honestly think that DM will want to ruin the fun for there players forcing them to play a subclass that just isn't worth taking
The idea is to make hexblade in a way that both the EB and the PotB options are both viable the same as it is in fiend, fey and goo. If the issue is that other subclasses do blast better that isn't a reason to make hexblade focus more on melee that is a reason to make the hexblade options better in general to make it better all around.
A pure blade lock feylock is completely viable without getting extra armor. 16 dex + light armor= 15 AC + Blade ward = 16-19 AC, armor of shadows makes that 17-20 AC doesn't use resources, but does use concentration. Add in the teleports, temp hp and reactions and it is fine.
Hexblade in this UA doesn't have anything that pushes it towards being melee, but it does have tools to make it succeed in melee including draining slash, allowing the hexblade to act as a bit of a skirmisher though risky, hungering hex, which provides actual healing and not just temp hp, armor of hexes this comes in really late but it is flat reduction to damage you take which extends the life and effectiveness of spells like armor of agathys.
Is this strong enough as it is written? no, but the fact that it is weak doesn't mean it now has to be 100% Pact of the Blade in the next iteration it means it needs to be buffed up a significant amount to be viable as either blade or EB version. Because right now fiend lock, fey lock and goo lock aren't just better at the EB version they are better at the PotB as well. They are just better subclasses.
It’s pretty much a consensus at this point: the new Hexblade is underwhelming. Yet some still try to defend it by pointing to abilities that kind of do the job—but only halfway. Just look at the broader D&D community—this issue is being raised everywhere.
We’re not asking for a brand-new subclass. We just want the original Hexblade properly updated. And honestly, what’s needed is simple:
Bring back Hexblade’s Curse, fueled by a limited number of Charisma-based uses.
Hex Warrior should include support for dual wielding, armor proficiency, and access to Weapon Mastery.
Accursed Specter should be replaced with Summon Undead—it was a flavorful and fun mechanic that added a unique feel to the subclass. It's been removed, even though it's frequently mentioned in community feedback and videos.
Hex Armor was perfectly fine—why change it for something worse?
Level 14 Feature – This is a high-level ability; it should feel impactful. Either enhance Hexblade’s Curse or introduce a meaningful new feature that truly fits the subclass.
I agree with CHA MOD Curses per Long Rest and maybe regain 1 use when using Magical Cunning
With Hex warrior allow Pact of the Blade to bond to 2 weapons with limited options for Fighting Style and ONE mastery associated to the Weapon that is your patron. (For Dual Wield) as class feature
If you defeat a target that is hexed or cursed, you get an animated weapon (Matching the patron) instead of Undead or Spector...Patron "Thank you for feeding me. Here is a companion for you."
Keep the 2014 Armor of hexes. 5 times per long rest vs once evert round (Unlimited) .. 21 points of damage reduction vs 100% damage reduction on an attack. I vote original version
Why would I want a feature given at start of subclass as a capstone? and a 1 target 1D6 splash damage as a capstone. The game is almost over and now I can keep Hex (What is powering ALL my subclass features) _up when getting hit.
So are you saying hexblade needs medium armor and shield or not?
because you are saying you are fine with light armor and and no shield proficiency, but then go on to say you need to take two feats to do your job.
whether you are satisfied with 16 AC or want more is up to you, you can invest more into dex later levels. but the reality is 17 AC is all that many martials have to do their job.
barbarian has 17 AC and a greatsword/dual wield while using reckless, which is their default offensive pkaystyle, they have effectively like 14 AC.
monk has 17 AC until level 12, and thats if they dont take a second feat
rogue maxes out at 17 AC
ranger has 17 Ac while using bows, dual wielding
fact is, most martial are not using shields. it is not a requirement to do your job.
if the warlock could only get 16 ac and had no active defenses it might be an issue, but that is not the case, they can lower enemy accuracy, they can give themselves temp hp, they can stun enemies, they can create decoys. they heal on kill, they can negate damage.
the reason i bring up eldritch blast is not because i want to eldritch blast with a shield, but rather its a way some people will play the subclass, and want to play the subclass. Also, Yall say other subclasses are better at eldtrich blast spam, i dont see it.
archfey: nothing about archfey that has any particular synergy with using eldritch blast. the closest thing that interacts is faerie fire being automatically on your list. You could use all the evasiveness to kite better, but thats not really giving any specific benefit to eldritch blast playstyle. You can use eldritch blast with no intention to kite.
hexblade on the other hand has specific and repeated synergies based on using attacks.
extra damage with attack rolls.
three effects to choose from when you land an attack roll
guaranteed damage if you miss with an attack roll
expanded crit range with attack rolls
spread damage to other targets when you land an attack roll
archfey is about being evasive
celestial is about support and holy flavor
fiend is mostly flavor, i dont think it has a specific gameplay theme.
Goo, is also attack based, giving advantage and some hex interactions, but less so than hexblade.
so you say after 5 they will struggle.
but i just tested this out with a level 12 melee focused hexblade, vs a horded devil, level 11
warlock, gwm 16 AC 84hp
this would be considered beyond deadly solo. for a group of 4, you might have 2 of these guys and a CR 8 guy, or a bunch of weaker guys.
things of note, warlock base class is strong and versatile.
specific things hexblade added, disadvantage on next save negated their magic resistence, allowing synaptic static to persist.
hex armor was extremely useful with armor of agaythys, reducing damage allowed it to last for 3 hits, or 75 damage. this wouldnt be the case otherwise
i missed two attacks, so that feature added 10 damage.
i beat it in 4 rounds, (going second) ending the fight with 55/84 hp then recovered 10 for a final of 65/84 Hp
that is a very good result for a high difficulty encounter where near same CR monster focused you every round.
synaptic static, armor of agathys. was my pact spells.
the subclass isnt perfect, id give it another pass, but hexblade is not lacking in defense.
It’s nice that they put that in the DMG for at home play, but if you want the rules they consider best for all you only have to look at AL.
You can use non-optional rules found in the Player’s Handbook, the Basic Rules, and all the books listed below. If a rule has been reprinted in a newer resource, you must always use the latest printing.
Adventurers League is not the best rules, they are just an agreed upon set of rules for a specific mode of play. The official rules are the ones in the phb/mm/dmg, and its the most common way dnd is played.
the adventurers leagues rules are designed to facilitate short adventures and sharing your charachter's progress among many different tables/adventures. It already limits your options and game content beyond what is available, and is not a good indicator of compatibility since they edit whats in AL every year with no real explanation.
again you need to take 2 feats for medium armor + shield and this is a must have
a hexblade has nothing to stay in melee and survive.
For your demonstration that sounds good on paper but in my calculations the Warlock is dead by round 4. And the chance that synatic static will hold for 4 rounds is very slim since Stymying Mark. and the horned devil adv. cancel each other out .....
And the chance that the warlock will keep his concentration on hex is very slim, with him having to do 2 conc saves every round in average
My opionen stands and most of the people her agree, there is absolute zero place for the hexblade subclass as it is presented. It might work as a eldritch blast build, but we don't need another subclass for that which isnt even very well suited for that.
it could be fixed pretty easy :
- light armor + shield prof would fix the most important issue
- like others said give their hex feature to an ability it doesn't need to concentrate on
And i stand firmly any class wanting to melee and not having skirmish abilitys ( rogue, monk ) needs to have a shield, 16 AC has no place at the front
And worse than needing two feats: one of those is essentially a lost feat because in order to get shield training, the hexblade has to take the Lightly Armored feat....even though they already have training in light armor.
I'm finding people saying "most martials don't use shields" to be out of their gourds.
Ranged builds don’t, TWF don’t, great weapon/polearm users don’t, rogues generally don’t, monks almost always don’t- though I’m sure there’s some edge case/contrarian build, and even some one-handed builds might skip them for aesthetic reasons. They’re not rare by any means, but nor are they necessary equipment.
i didnt jsimulate it, i actually ran the combat, but if you want to simulate various martials and see their survivability, lets do that.
some things first
i did lose concentration some on hex, but hex is BA action and i can reapply it 5 times per day. as GWM my BA isnt always being used.
the DC of breaking out of static is 17, by making it not done with advantage it lasted 3/4 rounds. without advantage, and a +1 int, its chance of meeting or beating a 17 is 25%
the chance of it lasting per round can be figured out
armor of agathis essentially increases HP by 25.
medium armor + shield is not a must have for martials, most barbarians do not use shields, no great weapon user uses shields, no dual wield build uses shields There is only one subset of martials that use shields, one handed build charachters.
medium armor does not offer more AC than mage armor, or light armor+1 the difference here is not in AC its in where you can put your other stats.
also, i rechecked my warlock and its numbers were off, it actually would have had 99 hp, and 17 AC. there was an issue with the VTT not counting level 11 and 12 properly.
If you arent willing to risk going in melee with hexblades defenses without a shield, you wouldnt be willing to play most martials, because their defenses without a shield are comparable to other martials with a shield.
the only "martial" that i think might have more is paladin, due to its spell lists, and features like lay on hands.
and yes people may say they think the class is weak or poor, but without some actual data and comparisons, we cant actually take it as more than opinion.
A shielded fighter isnt outlasting hexblade. 112 hp, 20 AC, 55% chance to get hit by fork 42.9 damage per round, recovers 17.5 second wind on their turn. lasts 4.24 rounds on average,
A barbarian with a shield, 19 AC (125 hp, 50% chance to get hit, half damage does nothing against hurl flame. -39.75per round on average) lasts 3.98 rounds relentless rage can probably last 1 more round, maybe 2. so 4 to 5 rounds.
monk spamming dodge doesnt, 87 hp, 42.25% chance to get hit by hurl flame (which they cant deflect at 12) they get 13 temp hp per round. Lasts 4.24 rounds
hexblade, AC 17 hp99(+12false life+25 armor of agathys= 136) 52.5 chance to land fork with static. 40.95 dmg per round, reduce damage by 14 per round, 26.95 -5.5= 21.4 lifedrinker, lasts up to 6.35
but lets say synaptic might fail, so lets pick something just to be less random, another armor of agathys cast
17 AC 161hp with two agathys and false life. 70% chance to get hit by fork for 54.6 per round, -14 hex armor 40.6 -5.5life drinker = 4.58 rounds on average
however, the only one of these classes with a good chance of killing the enemy in 4 rounds, and surviving 4-5 rounds+ is warlock. armor of agathys, 2 times will do between 100 and 150 damage, in the case of using armor of agathis twice, probably within the first 3 rounds. Since GWM averages 38.6 damage per round with hex (19.5*3*.60-3.5 lifedrinker) it likely dies in 3 -4 rounds.
the monk can only do 12.6 dpr damage while turtling (it would take 15 rounds to kill)
the fighter can do 20.7 dpr, but lets say they action surge once, so lets say an average of 24.5 a round (more than 8 rounds)
the barbarian can only do 15 dpr, but subclasses can boost that, or boost its survivability, regardless, it still cant come close to the damage, while being defensive, they can probably get it up to 24ish with berseker/zealot from reaction attacks and can probably extend their lives by 1 or 2 rounds form other subs (8-9 rounds)
there are build variations, but hexblade is performing very well in melee compared to melee focused classes.
and monk gains nothing by disengaging, monk does very poor damage if its not in melee every single turn, and using its BA for disengage doesnt help anyone in the party, or increase its survivability. in order to get into melle, and leave melee, you will spend movement going , and coming, this means you are probably with 20 or 40 feet of the monster (if you want to use step of the wind every turn) Not only does almost every monster have ranged options in 2024, but usually the monster will be able to reach you with melee. using dodge is likely more effective, and at least reduces the parties damage taken per round if you are targeted. monk is not an example of a class that uses its mobility to reduce damage taken.
Many casters dont realize what martial survivability actually is. hexblade is very survivable AND gives up very little damage while doing so.
Sure. I'm not arguing an archer should necessarily be lugging a shield around. But it feels like, in this thread, it's being argued that very few melee martials bother with a shield, and that is not at all my experience. And I very much doubt that the greater majority of melee-focused martials are going shieldless.
Again, sure, there are melee martials who choose to use either reach weapons or twohanded weapons. But a lot of folks weigh the extra die of damage as not worth the cost of a lower AC.
Do you have actual numbers proving that sword and board is that much more favored than TWF or great weapon? Or is this just speculation? At the end of the day, the objective fact is that as the game is designed, shields are not considered standard equipment for staying alive in melee.
(I know this isn't what you were talking about here.)
I think maybe the right solution is to give the subclass the ability to substitute CHA for DEX when determining AC (and phrase it so it works for Mage Armor). This would give AC 18 once they get to CHA 20, and make the subclass a little more SAD. (And discourage feats, like GWM, that don't boost CHA early.)
oh yeah, if you give hexblade a shield, then eldritch blast and other spells basically becomes the best way to make use of a shield.
you can do d8+5 *2-3or you can do d10+5.*2-4
so, if you want this to be a class that isnt spamming eldritch blast, giving it a shield is not helping that at all.
the majority of martials don't use shields.
shields lock you out of many weapons and utility
monk cant use a shield.
rogue doesnt have shield built in.
barbarians design gives up AC for more accuracy damage and versatility
anyone who may want to quickly swap to a 2 handed ranged or melee weapon cant use a shield
anyone who may want to use dual wielding, nick, cant use shields.
anyone who may want to use reach cant use shields.
and shields give away more than a dice of damage, because the feats tied to great weapons and dual wielding and the light property are signifigant.
even at just level 12,
a barbarian with a shield no reckless does 15. if they had a polearm, they would have reach, their choice of cleave push or topple, and with reckless, 41.5 dpr so more than double damage lost by trying to turtle.
fighter with polearm, and gwm swap on action surge, averages about 36dpr, and has whatever weapon mastery, or weapon property, or weapon range they need on deck. vs 24 with shield,
even pld sacrifices a lot, since they have divine favor and blessing adding to on hit damage. But since pld provides a lot of support, its ok if their damage is sub optimal, that is not the case for most martials.
and one thing to keep in mind in 5e, is there is no direct tanking, you can't even be sure you will be the target of monsters, and you cant be sure they wint target saves. so you really arent getting a lot of value for that large reduction in damage and versatility.
there are definitely some martials who use shields, but i doubt its the majority.
that aside, its not really about regular martials with shields
the thing is that hexblades (and many other casters) can get as much defense/mitigation/recovery. as martials without using shields. Shields are mostly difficult for casters to access because it makes them extremely tanky if they specialize. Thats why in UA lightly armored was a lvl 1 (origin possible) feat that gave medium armor and shields and everyone rioted. Because they didnt feel arcane ish casters should get easy access to defense in addition to their magical defenses.
also casters dont pay a dpr or versatility price for using shields.
Hexblade likely got its base AC nerfed because you cant take away its baseline warlock features which will always make playing a hexblade as a ranged caster with a shield superior to playing as a weapon wielding charachter with a shield.
there is no way to solve that unless hexblade disables a lot of its spells and features while equipping a shield.
I don't disagree with your approach. It's also the reason why I'm so vehemently against making the Hexblade subclass revolve around Hex to hog up their Concentration. I don't want a Subclass where I'm torn between using my spell slots to stay alive and to actually have a Subclass. SS does have repeated saving throws against WIS, so it is not really that reliable as a defense, but definitely better than casting Mirror Image for a vast majority of cases.
However you also cannot rely on backwards compatibility to make the Hexblade function at higher levels, as you have to assume that not everyone is allowing backwards compatibility and only use 2024 and later rules. Also Greater Invisibility is not on the Warlock spell list, not in 2024 nor in 2014 - it is in the Archfey Subclass though. Having the Hexblade subclass provide you with new spells that can fulfill this defensive purpose would be a good thing IMO, and on brand with the memo that you use your magic to amplify your Martial prowess.
Although I do think the Warlock as it stands don't have sufficient means to go into melee and not feel inferior, so I was looking for the Hexblade subclass to assist on their defenses like it did in 2014, and to do it before level 10. And TBH Armor of Hexes only working against your hex'ed target is... not great either. I'm also a strong supporter of multi-classing and is very aware how easy it is to start 1 level Fighter for all the proficiencies and then go over to Warlock. If Warlock got the Armor Training by themselves (through Hexblade) it would reduce the benefit of multiclassing. Additionally if you provide the Warlock some other means of defenses that is not armor, there's a very real risk that combining Armor Training from the Fighter and adding Warlock's other measures, would simply make it a lot stronger than what is healthy. Having said that I also consider the Armor-limits that some classes put into their features is... inelegant and not fun. Basically the more self-contained you make mechanics, the more safe they are and the less fun they are to build with because you can't combine it with most anything. I understand it as a necessary evil to not break the game, but if possible would like to avoid it.
I do think there's a possible route where you make the Hexblade more into a drain-tank: Basically you don't focus as much on straight damage reduction (like AC) but instead increase your HP and recovery during combat. No the Hungering Hex's on-death healing is not dependable, it relies extremely on the DM providing you with basically MMO-adds to recover on. If your party is attacked by a Troll then Hungering Hex does nothing for you. Arcane Vigor uses up your spell slots AND your Hit Dice, and its not very efficient at all. AV has similar healing (2d8 + CHA) as Healing Word at level 2 (4d4 + CHA), but even in the scaling here HW beats it by adding 2d4 per level where AV only adds 1d8. HW also don't chew through your Hit Dice (that could otherwise be used during Short Rests and the Lifedrinker invocation), HW can be used on allies, but does require your Origin Feat/Invocation for Lessons of Old Ones.
I just don't think the UA Hexblade is the way to go about it.
First of all, it seems very convenient that you assume the Hexblade uses their Hex to pump DPR and none of the others use any limited resource. Additionally we account for Origin Feat being Magic Initiate whereas none of the others get anything. Skewed comparison.
Second of all you can't use TWF with Booming Blade, because the Light property specifically uses the Attack Action as a hook to enable the BA-attack. And BB's trigger happens basically never in regular combat.
This stat spread also means you have 8 in STR and likely INT with 10 in WIS. So your saves for tier 2 and especially 3+ is... quite a weakness. The backside to any MAD character.
I also calculate the TWF with Hex up is 17 DPR, with 10 DPR on the first round and any round where you have to transfer Hex. Lets be generous and assume 3 rounds bashing the same Hex'ed target; 10 + 17x2 = 14.7 DPR
Yeah, monks don't really do ranged combat all that much. But if you're going to be fair, they would dual-wield daggers and throw them, using their movement to go into short-range and then leave. So it's 2d6 + 3 = 10 DPR.
Monks are one of the only classes that actually get a fair bit of mileage out of Origin feat: Tavern Brawler. On a d6 it adds 0.41 average DPR from the rerolls. So the melee damage without using limited resources could easily be 13.8 DPR.
They could also pick up Magic Initiate Druid for Shillelagh and a Quarterstaff for their main hand to deal d8. That's 14 DPR. Have Cure Wounds or Healing Word in the backhand for a little healing.
Also spending KI for damage here is not at the cost of your Action economy. So whilst a Warlock have spell slots for damage, utility, healing, they do it with a cost of their Action Economy. The Monk spends KI to improve their Actions. With the recovery from Uncanny Metabolism available, there's basically no reason not to spend your KI whenever you can. So add +3.5 + 3 to the DPR (20.5) , and then +0.4 with the Tavern Brawler kit (20.7). Most combat encounters are expected to last 3-4 rounds, so at this point KI is available for bonus strikes most of the time. Might as well reflect that.
Deflect Attack whenever you do get hit with your 16 AC, is reducing damage on average; 5.5 + 3 + 3 = 11.5 damage. On this level that's likely going to reduce that damage to 0 or near zero.
That's a lot more effective health than the Warlock and not trading offense. And if you make fair damage comparisons, the Monk is also pretty comfortably ahead by quite a bit in melee and not staggeringly behind on close range. Granted range damage doesn't scale well at all for Monk, but that's par for the course.
To dabble into subclasses;
Mercy: Doesn't really amp your DPR at this point as KI points are in short supply, but it technically is a guaranteed hit. So spending it on this or to make the 2nd Unarmed Strike with your BA, this is better because it is a rider on an already acquired hit.
Shadow: You get to dance with the ol' Darkness + Devil's Sight combo, you attack with ADV, they attack with DisADV. Your friends hate you.
Elements: You wanted 15 ft. reach? Basically granting Monk semi-ranged combat? Here you go. Hit at 15 ft. range, move 20 ft. away with your 40 ft. movement and reengage next round. Rinse repeat. You can even attempt to push the target away to keep you out of reach or get them off your allies on every single strike. Not really DPR increasing, but does have some defensive qualities.
Open Hand: Most gives some no-save maneuvers like the Hexblade's maneuvers.
Not super exciting for this comparison.
It's not at all unrealistic that a lvl 3 character have acquired 200g for a Splint (17 AC), if nothing else by pooling the party's gains towards putting stronger defenses on the frontliners. I couldn't find a reference in the DMG, but apparently Xanathar's did provide a reference table that is copied here: https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/dungeon-masters-only/79378-character-wealth-gold-by-level?srsltid=AfmBOoqyf9e29gOElq4sA6blrFsR2eP1fkFErku-n4NAiDXYtrG_Kf8z
There's also no accounting for Fighting Styles in the comparison, a big part of being a Fighter. If you go Sword and Board, I would likely advice going Dueling to pump your offense, whilst a Two-Handed Fighter likely wants Defense to pad their AC. TWF picking up its TWF FS.
So that's 19 AC for Sword and Board, with a Longsword doing 10.5 DPR, inflicting DisADV on the target's next attack.
Or 18 AC for a Two-Hander, with a Greatsword doing 10 DPR. If we were to account hit rate of 65% (I believe this is the consensus average hit rate), then graze would add some DPR to the lowered DPR, turning 6.5 DPR into 7.6 DPR.
Or 17 AC for a TWF, with a Scimitar and a Shortsword, doing 13 DPR no BA required and with some ADV.
Ranged damage is indeed not very flashy. You could focus DEX over STR with a TWF build and stick with Medium Armor for only 16 AC at this point, making ranged combat competitive for ranged damage dealers.
Now lets add a subclass like the Battle Master. Riposte grants you access to turn 4 misses against you into Reaction-attacks with +1d8 damage on top. Replenishable on a Short Rest. This is more reliable than Armor of Agathys, and plays into your strength of high AC. Feinting is another very basic Maneuver that just grants ADV and +1d8 damage for a BA.
2x Second Wind for 1d10 + Fighter = 8.5 HP a piece for a BA. Replenishing 1x on Short Rest and all on Long Rest. Fighter don't use BA for much at this point, so it's not really a cost unlike Warlock popping Armor of Agathys or Fiendish Vigor.
I mean Warlock looks superior if you don't compare them fairly... that's true...
You're wrong, the Hexblade is not on par with other martials and definitely not superior in t1 and t2.
The UA hexblade requires a MAD spread of stats. It is a non-tank frontliner and have quite a few weaknesses built into the subclass - namely a non-impressive AC, the MAD spread AND a reliance on a Concentration spell, where their AC doesn't help them avoid hits as much (unlike other gishes like Bladesinger/Valor Bard), their MAD spread likely causes their CON save to remain low (+2) which causes concentration breaks often. Just a small hit with flat DC 10 is 35% chance of dropping Concentration.
For ASIs you're forced to prioritize between more AC to keep being in melee or more CHA for damage, spell and skill relevancy. Other melee martials don't have this problem, either because armor covers for them or because AC improvements are overlapping with attack improvements.
Starting tier 2, enemies are likely to have a +5 to hit (+3 prof. +2 stat) at least. Meaning attack rolls hit your 16 AC about half the time. You don't have a Reaction to cushion damage like Monk and Rogue. You don't have the AC of a Fighter or Paladin. You don't have the HP nor damage resistance nor AC of a Barbarian. Spells like Shield, Arcane Vigor only works to a very limited extend due to spell slots (and Hit Dice). You're not on par with martials in melee.
to iteration:
booming blade isnt used when you use twf, it used when you arent, aka using your BA on something else, like a spell or applying hex.
the comparison was elemental monk who isnt gaining baseline damage at level 3, its also mostly supposed to compare someone who cares about defense, and being in melle/ranged hybrid combat.
i didnt compare ki use for damage here, because this was a baseline comparison, hex is its own resources. This was a top line view, i later go into more explicit use. But the point is the monk can use its ki for defense in comparison to warlock using pact slots for defense. The warlock could also use pact slots for offense like the monk could use it for offense. in this anayisis i didnt compare, but i can tell you that the best offensive value of ki at level 3 is one attack, or d6+3. or the reaction deflect attacks, 2MA+dex the save does zero damage if the succeed, so these are pretty close in value. about 4 or 5. if we choose 5 (deflect attacks), its 15 damage per SR.
the offensive value of a pact slots at level 3 is 2 level 2 spells. if we want one warlock that best compares its hellish rebuke, which at level is 3d10 with half damage on success roughly thats 75% damage on average for 12.375 per, or 24.75 dpr per SR. without effecting other sources if dpr. that said i wasnt going to assume the monk was going to use its ki offensively, since this in reply to a post about how the monk could be a skirmisher, and might be using ki for step of the wind or patient defense.
and as i said, if the monk didnt have deflect attacks there would be no comparison. using its ki still leaves it behind the hex by itself. a monk can expect, 1 SR per day and has uncanny metobolism, for 9ki per day, or 45 damage. hex given 1.5 attacks per round and 16 rounds a day, would be 84 damage. it might vary due to losing concentration, but in that comparison ki is being expended to combat hex, so that means the value of pact slots is not included. assuming the same rest structure, the warlock gets 5 pact slots. which, if we are examing dpr is 12.375 per slot. even assuming we are using pact slots defensively to temper deflect attacks, armor of agathys does damage.
which brings up false life and armor of agathys, those can be used pre combat since their durations are large, and in combat, due to thier combo, they still do damage while providing defense.
and this is why i skimmed over them, because their durations value and application of which is a better defense depends on what type of combat and your tactics and role. And the warlock might not even go that route opting for mirror images, which has a different optimal defensive strategy.
to be honest, i only examined this level because the poster wanted to talk about lower level comparisons, most people agree hexblade has no issues at this level. ranger and hexblade will dominate in t1 and t2 discussions due to the nature of hex and HM.
as for being 15=20 feet away being ranged combat, i mean if you consider ranged combat being anything more than 5 feet away as ranged combat sure, but that means polearms are ranged combat. And you are not getting much melee protection at these ranges. if a monster can walk up to you and melee without dashing, you arent much safer than being 5 feet away from it. they can use their melee abilities, and put opportunity attack pressure on you. the main advantage is an offensive one, of being able to choose from more targets, from more positions.
most mages dont consider their 10 or 20 foot cones as 'ranged' options but if we want to consider midrange combat options, warlock still wins. it can also throw daggers for 2d6+2d4+3 compared to monks 2d6+3 at range.
If you really believe a martial class blows hexblade's offense/defense out the water at a specific level range, pick one and we can do a more in depth analysis.