What is supporty about the core class besides the healing?
The infuse items and spell infusions, as well as the class specific spell all are pretty support oriented abilities yes the artificer can use it on themselves but they can enhance their parties combat abilities much like a bard or a cleric.
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Loex - A Lizardfolk Lvl 4/7/4 Hexblade Profane Blood Hunter/ Battlesmith Artificer/ Cleric of the Forge Arborea - A Warforged Lvl 5 Hexblade Warlock Archive - A Autognome Lvl 3 Old One Warlock ER15 - A Autognome Lvl 7 Binder Warlock
What is supporty about the core class besides the healing?
The infuse items and spell infusions, as well as the class specific spell all are pretty support oriented abilities yes the artificer can use it on themselves but they can enhance their parties combat abilities much like a bard or a cleric.
Lets not forget that BOTH subclasses offer support roles in their way.
On the money point that was a fun read but were you talking about Infuse an Item or Crafting at Cost/2 Time/4?
Because Infuse an item has a limit to the number of Infused items before the oldest infusion disappears. I could see some fun shenanigans with a travelling salesman NPC or a Chaotic PC party that rolls into town selling magic items then leaving and all the magic disappearing.
But I would probably prefer to world build that artificer infusions are noticeable and would be as easily recognizable as fake gold coins in the real world. (Depending on rule of cool for the specific players)
HA. Thanks for pointing this out. :) I misread the article and totally missed that part. Well, looks like they thought of this before I did!
For the uninitiated, this is the original creator of Eberron (and the Artificer) who didn't have a hand in the first UA but did in this one (and in the Wayfinder's Guide). Good insights here.
I like the general build of the class, but i feel like the sub-classes should be introduced at 1st level, the additional tool proficiencies at 3rd level and then subsequent using them as spell focus doesn't go over with me. Rather have the first 3 levels be shuffled around a bit:
1st Magical Tinkering, Artificer Specialist (Tools of the Trade and maybe a specific ribbon ability and 1 cantrip (produce flame for Alchemists for instance).
2nd Spellcasting, Infuse Item, +1 Cantrip
3rd Artificer Specialist Feature (as per doc), Tool expertise.
This wouldn't hurt the balance that much (maybe make 1st level a little weak honestly).
As for bigger things I would like changed:
Arcane Armament I feel could be a specific build. replace this with Disenchant magic or even better Spell-Storing Item but watered down. (some of the other posts here had great ideas on this)
Soul of Artifice could be brought in much earlier but scale with proficiency or something.
I think an interesting ability would something like the following:
Arcane Disruption You're knowledge of the inner workings of magical items allow you to disrupt the magic weaved to create these items. As an action, you can turn one magical item that you can see within 30 feet into a mundane version of itself for 1 minute. If the item is being worn, held or is sentient, the person or sentient item can make an Intelligence save equal to your spell save DC to prevent the Arcane Disruption. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to your intelligence modifier.
I think that's a really cool idea! You should definitely bring it up when the survey for Artificer comes out.
For the uninitiated, this is the original creator of Eberron (and the Artificer) who didn't have a hand in the first UA but did in this one (and in the Wayfinder's Guide). Good insights here.
I'm curious as to why you feel subclasses belong at lvl 1. especially for new players i find giving them a session or 2 to decide how they want to play the character before locking them into such a big decision. might not be a problem in al but the dms i'm used to normally don't let people change much like that. might just be my dms
About the subclass at first level, I think that so much of the flavor of how you do your magic or artifice is based on the tools you use that earlier is better then later. It’s the same thing as to why a cleric, sorcerer or warlock picks a subclass at 1st. In my mind the mmethod and flavor of spell casting of the artificer is based on the subclass you choose, if you were using your tinker tools to create mechanical wonders that freeze, zap and burn your opponents, why would you start using an alchemical satchel or smithing tools after you have been using magic one way for two adventures now. I also loath the idea of characters gaining a lot of proficiencies after first (that’s a personal preference).
Havign said that I’m pretty easy with just houseruling things
I'm curious as to why you feel subclasses belong at lvl 1. especially for new players i find giving them a session or 2 to decide how they want to play the character before locking them into such a big decision. might not be a problem in al but the dms i'm used to normally don't let people change much like that. might just be my dms
As a half-caster, I definitely believe the Archetype belongs at 3rd level. I'm just a bit puzzled as to WHAT the other half is? :)
Yhe other half casters are the Ranger and the Paladin which get Martial weapons which we don't. So far, I just don't get a real feel for what the non-caster half of our class is . . .
We've got Light and medium arods, and shields so that is good. We only get d8's for hit points and only simple weapons and crossbows. I've been playing with artificer builds, but have yet to playtest one as of yet. Very soon though.
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Watch your back, conserve your ammo, and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
I'm curious as to why you feel subclasses belong at lvl 1. especially for new players i find giving them a session or 2 to decide how they want to play the character before locking them into such a big decision. might not be a problem in al but the dms i'm used to normally don't let people change much like that. might just be my dms
As a half-caster, I definitely believe the Archetype belongs at 3rd level. I'm just a bit puzzled as to WHAT the other half is? :)
Yhe other half casters are the Ranger and the Paladin which get Martial weapons which we don't. So far, I just don't get a real feel for what the non-caster half of our class is . . .
We've got Light and medium arods, and shields so that is good. We only get d8's for hit points and only simple weapons and crossbows. I've been playing with artificer builds, but have yet to playtest one as of yet. Very soon though.
I think that's part of the problem I'm having. Right now, the class is relying too much on people to use their imagination to fill in the blanks; which, Dungeons and Dragons, yeah I get that there's a large onus on us players to use our imaginations, but as it stands there's still a big blank spot left to be filled in.
Perhaps it might be helpful if WotC started shifting away from making the Artificer a half-caster and went more into making it a unique caster like the Warlock? Just a thought.
looks like some one is trying to work on a guide to the class(not me). its on enworld (i don't recall rule for links right now but just to be safe i wont be linking it google "So art lies hid by its own artifice" - an artificer guide" it should be the first one). if your interested take a look i am sure feedback would be beneficial to all
Oh yeah, and the obvious comment of "we need WAY more infusions and archetypes". At this point in the 5e's lifespan, releasing a class with such sparse options in comparison to its counterparts pushes new players away from wanting to pick them.
Untouched Archetype ideas:
Gunsmith: Forgo the pet and allow us to create the ultimate weapon over the course of the campaign. Treated like the Ranger - Hunter, every time we get a specialism feature we can choose from 3-4 upgrades for our rifle/pistol as well as a host of other features such as improved reloading, dual wielding, ect.
Mechanist: Leaning fully into the idea of creating a pet, at level 3 we build a mechanical companion that acts during our initiative order as a companion BUT can also be piloted (whether that is jumping on its back or even stepping inside of it like a suit of armor). You can eventually upgrade it for combat in the sky or sea.
Gourmand: Gaining cooking utensils/brewer supplies as your spell focus, you become a master chef/mixologist. You dishes/cocktails buff your allies and yourself with resistances, healing, temp hit points, and even advantage. You can even charm/paralyze/poison your enemies if you get them to try your creations.
Transmutor: Using your own body as a test subject, you give yourself horrifying biological upgrades like tentacles, insect carapaces, even being able to create your own symbionts that you can "gift" to your party at higher levels.
Forgemaster: You specialize in crafting specialized armor and melee weapons for your party going far beyond what infusions can already do. Craft beautiful master work weapons that culminate in the highest of achievements... a sentient weapon.
Please. These please. I mean, I’ve been playing the 2017 Atificer since early 2018, very boringly and I LOVE the update, but THESE get me excited. The Gourmand and the Transmuter (like the Simic) are getting me very excited.
Hjalmar Gunderson, Vuman Alchemist Plague Doctor in a HB Campaign, Post Netherese Invasion Cormyr (lvl20 retired) Godfrey, Autognome Butler in Ghosts of Saltmarsh into Spelljammer Grímr Skeggisson, Goliath Rune Knight in Rime of the Frostmaiden DM of two HB campaigns set in the same world.
As a half-caster, I definitely believe the Archetype belongs at 3rd level. I'm just a bit puzzled as to WHAT the other half is? :)
Yhe other half casters are the Ranger and the Paladin which get Martial weapons which we don't. So far, I just don't get a real feel for what the non-caster half of our class is . . .
We've got Light and medium arods, and shields so that is good. We only get d8's for hit points and only simple weapons and crossbows. I've been playing with artificer builds, but have yet to playtest one as of yet. Very soon though.
(I think that is why the choose to add super flexibility on Cantrips as the other half, but I don’t like how many features are devoted to Cantrips at the expense of the rest of the unique features of 2017 Artificer)
For my opinion, open do different interpretations.
The artificer belongs in a tier with Bard as a Supporting role not a Nova role. There are martial Half Casters but that doesn’t have to be the only design type.
The Artificer should be handing out buffs and items on rests similar to the Bards and buffing on BA in combat similar to the Bards. With high RP and world building potential along with unique mechanical niche.
If they can pull that off satisfyingly I’ll be happier than another full caster or Nova Martial.
I do however think it needs some way of accessing higher level spells sometimes like a level 18 feature which lets you craft an item that replicates one or something. (Spell stealing finally comes into a class here??)
And I would let’s some subclasses that seem more physical lean into martial weapons eg. The artillerist getting bonuses to Xbox/bow weapons +ignore loading in the subclass.
Please. These please. I mean, I’ve been playing the 2017 Atificer since early 2018, very boringly and I LOVE the update, but THESE get me excited. The Gourmand and the Transmuter (like the Simic) are getting me very excited.
If they use up all their subclass ideas they wouldn’t have any content for future realeased books, unearthed arcana or even for homebrewers. (And I am sure they will come out to fill out this subclass format when the class is finalised)
I hope they release with a well thought out 3 subclasses instead of rushing all ideas possible.
For example you could have asked for a paladin oath for all alignments when that was first released (which would have been a bad idea) or look at the wizard which did half arse each of the magic types into subclasses.
I reread the class after Crawford's interview and I like it.
My lens was stuck on an Ebberon Artificer and the first time I read it, I did not enjoy it. The homunculi and the turrets were too close to the ranger's beastmaster when I read it. (This is a non-issue for me now.)
That being said, this is a good iteration. My favorite part is the infusions. This is a powerful feature that allows an entire party to have magic weapons in an instant, but its not perfect. I would alter the replicate magic item section into, replicating a magic item that you already have would allow more freedom to the player. It doesn't require them to have a DMG. The infusions could also be expanded in the next iteration. This is only a sample and I want more.
The worst part for me is lack of character expertise flavor. I'd like to see advantage on nature or arcane checks for the respective subclasses.
Crawford's interview was enlightening and I think the biggest challenge is how inventors exist in all worlds.
My first session with my Kobold Artificer is Monday night, we are starting Out of the Abyss, so I'll keep you posted. Should be interesting since I pretty much won't be able to use any of my class features since most require an artisan tool and in Out of the Abyss you start out imprisoned.
I see two great subclasses held aloft by one nice support basis. One one hand you have the (selfish) Alchemist, who supports but can also get into the mix and float around a combat round. Add in crossbow Expert and/or Sharpshooter to either subclass for the flavor of a kickass crossbow. Then there is the (selfless) Artillerist, who turns the group into tanks OR camps a choke point.
Everything about the class and subclasses screams a new narrative style at the table. Players are challenged with describing how they make a magical effect with contraptions and doodads, while keeping the actual magic secretive.
Most importantly I think we need to remember that D&D is about making your players come out as a superhero. The DM has the discretionary tools to make this happen even if you are a one-armed goblin swinging a stick. We should take this iteration out for test drives before we weigh in too heavily.
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@DnDPaladin
What is supporty about the core class besides the healing?
Thanks!
The infuse items and spell infusions, as well as the class specific spell all are pretty support oriented abilities yes the artificer can use it on themselves but they can enhance their parties combat abilities much like a bard or a cleric.
Loex - A Lizardfolk Lvl 4/7/4 Hexblade Profane Blood Hunter/ Battlesmith Artificer/ Cleric of the Forge
Arborea - A Warforged Lvl 5 Hexblade Warlock
Archive - A Autognome Lvl 3 Old One Warlock
ER15 - A Autognome Lvl 7 Binder Warlock
DM - "Malign Intelligence"
Lets not forget that BOTH subclasses offer support roles in their way.
HA. Thanks for pointing this out. :) I misread the article and totally missed that part. Well, looks like they thought of this before I did!
Shame. That would have been a lot of money.
Worth taking a look at Keith Baker's blog for more on the Artificer: http://keith-baker.com/dm-artificer/
For the uninitiated, this is the original creator of Eberron (and the Artificer) who didn't have a hand in the first UA but did in this one (and in the Wayfinder's Guide). Good insights here.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
I like the general build of the class, but i feel like the sub-classes should be introduced at 1st level, the additional tool proficiencies at 3rd level and then subsequent using them as spell focus doesn't go over with me. Rather have the first 3 levels be shuffled around a bit:
This wouldn't hurt the balance that much (maybe make 1st level a little weak honestly).
As for bigger things I would like changed:
Just my 2 bits.
I think that's a really cool idea! You should definitely bring it up when the survey for Artificer comes out.
Great link, ty!
I'm curious as to why you feel subclasses belong at lvl 1. especially for new players i find giving them a session or 2 to decide how they want to play the character before locking them into such a big decision. might not be a problem in al but the dms i'm used to normally don't let people change much like that. might just be my dms
About the subclass at first level, I think that so much of the flavor of how you do your magic or artifice is based on the tools you use that earlier is better then later. It’s the same thing as to why a cleric, sorcerer or warlock picks a subclass at 1st. In my mind the mmethod and flavor of spell casting of the artificer is based on the subclass you choose, if you were using your tinker tools to create mechanical wonders that freeze, zap and burn your opponents, why would you start using an alchemical satchel or smithing tools after you have been using magic one way for two adventures now. I also loath the idea of characters gaining a lot of proficiencies after first (that’s a personal preference).
Havign said that I’m pretty easy with just houseruling things
As a half-caster, I definitely believe the Archetype belongs at 3rd level. I'm just a bit puzzled as to WHAT the other half is? :)
Yhe other half casters are the Ranger and the Paladin which get Martial weapons which we don't. So far, I just don't get a real feel for what the non-caster half of our class is . . .
We've got Light and medium arods, and shields so that is good. We only get d8's for hit points and only simple weapons and crossbows. I've been playing with artificer builds, but have yet to playtest one as of yet. Very soon though.
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
I think that's part of the problem I'm having. Right now, the class is relying too much on people to use their imagination to fill in the blanks; which, Dungeons and Dragons, yeah I get that there's a large onus on us players to use our imaginations, but as it stands there's still a big blank spot left to be filled in.
Perhaps it might be helpful if WotC started shifting away from making the Artificer a half-caster and went more into making it a unique caster like the Warlock? Just a thought.
looks like some one is trying to work on a guide to the class(not me). its on enworld (i don't recall rule for links right now but just to be safe i wont be linking it google "So art lies hid by its own artifice" - an artificer guide" it should be the first one). if your interested take a look i am sure feedback would be beneficial to all
Please. These please. I mean, I’ve been playing the 2017 Atificer since early 2018, very boringly and I LOVE the update, but THESE get me excited. The Gourmand and the Transmuter (like the Simic) are getting me very excited.
Hjalmar Gunderson, Vuman Alchemist Plague Doctor in a HB Campaign, Post Netherese Invasion Cormyr (lvl20 retired)
Godfrey, Autognome Butler in Ghosts of Saltmarsh into Spelljammer
Grímr Skeggisson, Goliath Rune Knight in Rime of the Frostmaiden
DM of two HB campaigns set in the same world.
(I think that is why the choose to add super flexibility on Cantrips as the other half, but I don’t like how many features are devoted to Cantrips at the expense of the rest of the unique features of 2017 Artificer)
For my opinion, open do different interpretations.
The artificer belongs in a tier with Bard as a Supporting role not a Nova role. There are martial Half Casters but that doesn’t have to be the only design type.
The Artificer should be handing out buffs and items on rests similar to the Bards and buffing on BA in combat similar to the Bards. With high RP and world building potential along with unique mechanical niche.
If they can pull that off satisfyingly I’ll be happier than another full caster or Nova Martial.
I do however think it needs some way of accessing higher level spells sometimes like a level 18 feature which lets you craft an item that replicates one or something. (Spell stealing finally comes into a class here??)
And I would let’s some subclasses that seem more physical lean into martial weapons eg. The artillerist getting bonuses to Xbox/bow weapons +ignore loading in the subclass.
If they use up all their subclass ideas they wouldn’t have any content for future realeased books, unearthed arcana or even for homebrewers. (And I am sure they will come out to fill out this subclass format when the class is finalised)
I hope they release with a well thought out 3 subclasses instead of rushing all ideas possible.
For example you could have asked for a paladin oath for all alignments when that was first released (which would have been a bad idea) or look at the wizard which did half arse each of the magic types into subclasses.
I reread the class after Crawford's interview and I like it.
My lens was stuck on an Ebberon Artificer and the first time I read it, I did not enjoy it. The homunculi and the turrets were too close to the ranger's beastmaster when I read it. (This is a non-issue for me now.)
That being said, this is a good iteration. My favorite part is the infusions. This is a powerful feature that allows an entire party to have magic weapons in an instant, but its not perfect. I would alter the replicate magic item section into, replicating a magic item that you already have would allow more freedom to the player. It doesn't require them to have a DMG. The infusions could also be expanded in the next iteration. This is only a sample and I want more.
The worst part for me is lack of character expertise flavor. I'd like to see advantage on nature or arcane checks for the respective subclasses.
Crawford's interview was enlightening and I think the biggest challenge is how inventors exist in all worlds.
My first session with my Kobold Artificer is Monday night, we are starting Out of the Abyss, so I'll keep you posted. Should be interesting since I pretty much won't be able to use any of my class features since most require an artisan tool and in Out of the Abyss you start out imprisoned.
I see two great subclasses held aloft by one nice support basis. One one hand you have the (selfish) Alchemist, who supports but can also get into the mix and float around a combat round. Add in crossbow Expert and/or Sharpshooter to either subclass for the flavor of a kickass crossbow. Then there is the (selfless) Artillerist, who turns the group into tanks OR camps a choke point.
Everything about the class and subclasses screams a new narrative style at the table. Players are challenged with describing how they make a magical effect with contraptions and doodads, while keeping the actual magic secretive.
Most importantly I think we need to remember that D&D is about making your players come out as a superhero. The DM has the discretionary tools to make this happen even if you are a one-armed goblin swinging a stick. We should take this iteration out for test drives before we weigh in too heavily.