you are repeating yourself, as if i didn't understand a thing before... repeating yourself wont make me change my mind, nor will it make more sense to me as to what you are trying to explain. all i was saying, as mentionned above, is that interprettation is what most people base themselves of. and thats wrong for making a class.
as for wands being separate from the other features, i agree with that part. i also think that wands deserves their own specialisation. but... those saying wands slingers are for eberron... sorry but the core classes since the first editoion were already using that. and again i reiterate a fact here... keith baker didn't want to have wizards in his settings, and thus artificer are made to replace the wizard. or at least make a scientific version of them. so it would be normal for both classes to do the same shit.
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DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games --> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
I don't mind WotC getting rid of Superior Attunement. I believe that benefits of Soul of Artifice more than makes up for it. Also a Tactician doesn't design and build turrets; they plan a strategy to achieve a specific goal.
My friend and I decided to co-DM a new campaign that's just us two. We''re starting with two level 1 Artificers (2019) who specialize in making magical artifacts for the average joe: things like a charm to hang in your larder so food stays fresh longer, or tape enchanted with the Alarm spell. They've decided that they want to be thieves, so they're about to go on a series of heists. More information to come later as we play through this adventure and see how the artificers interact with each other and the world around them. Oh, and the artificers are located in Waterdeep. Which I think is cool.
It seems we are on the same page then @DnDPaladin just communication error :-)
@Marine2874 the reason I use 1 session as my timeline for a core feature is driven from my experience, as discussed before I have only DMed oneshots and barely played past 3 sessions with the same group. So in my experience if the core features of the class as given by level 2 don’t occur often enough you just feel like a commoner.
Also there is a very strong correlation in my experience in classes that have no frequent feature and the amount of complaint about the class. Ki, Rage, Sneak Attack, Action Surge, Smite, ... , Channel Divinity?, Wildshape, Bardic Inspiration, Invocations, Metamagic, ... . Each of above happen at least once per session and when they do it really makes you feel like that class and no other class could do what you just did. Of the above missing I think Rangers Favourite Enemy & Natural Explorer fall into trap of being too DM dependant which is a common complaint. And Wizard’s spellbook, also DM dependant but I would probably let them find a scroll in every second room of a dungeon just to make it 1 spell learned per session.
Lastly I mean every single class has a lot of abilities per level for 1,2,3 and you have removed the only cool one besides Spellcasting and Subclass, it does have to be replaced with something or it is a dead level.
You do seem to think anything on the Artificer that is stronger than anything else on other classes is a big NoNo, even if it comes with restrictions. I believe we have discussed Cantrips, Magic Items and Attunement slots as power creep. I just don’t agree that a new class can be created with only the rules already written it needs to have something new and more. While having restrictions like half casting, lack of weapons, low amounts of Cantrips at a time, limits on known and held magic items. All good restrictions.
You do seem to think anything on the Artificer that is stronger than anything else on other classes is a big NoNo, even if it comes with restrictions. I believe we have discussed Cantrips, Magic Items and Attunement slots as power creep. I just don’t agree that a new class can be created with only the rules already written it needs to have something new and more. While having restrictions like half casting, lack of weapons, low amounts of Cantrips at a time, limits on known and held magic items. All good restrictions.
You do seem to think anything on the Artificer that is stronger than anything else on other classes is a big NoNo, even if it comes with restrictions. I believe we have discussed Cantrips, Magic Items and Attunement slots as power creep. I just don’t agree that a new class can be created with only the rules already written it needs to have something new and more. While having restrictions like half casting, lack of weapons, low amounts of Cantrips at a time, limits on known and held magic items. All good restrictions.
So, there's an idea I've been chewing on, but I'm not sure if it's a good idea or absolutely terrible. What if, instead of just copying existing magic items, the Infusions gave things like generic class/race features as well?
For instance, a sword with extra attack, or boots that give an extra 10 feet of movement, or armor that gives you extra carrying capacity, or weapons that allow the use of a fighting style, or an item that can cast artificer cantrips that you can hand out to party members, each one requiring attunement so they can't all be stacked on just one party member.
I dunno, what do you think? Good idea? Bad idea? Horrifically unbalanced?
So, there's an idea I've been chewing on, but I'm not sure if it's a good idea or absolutely terrible. What if, instead of just copying existing magic items, the Infusions gave things like generic class/race features as well?
For instance, a sword with extra attack, or boots that give an extra 10 feet of movement, or armor that gives you extra carrying capacity, or weapons that allow the use of a fighting style, or an item that can cast artificer cantrips that you can hand out to party members, each one requiring attunement so they can't all be stacked on just one party member.
I dunno, what do you think? Good idea? Bad idea? Horrifically unbalanced?
Not all of the infused items have to be carried/used by a single party member. It mentions in the UA that you don't need to be the one attuned to an infused item that has the attunement requirement. As a matter of fact, any of your party members can carry/ use an infused item.
The fighting style would be a nogo. That is something that only training and experience could offer. In my own opinion. As for the cantrip...... It would probably have to be limited to a single damage die, have a limited number a charges, and only certain cantrips.
So, there's an idea I've been chewing on, but I'm not sure if it's a good idea or absolutely terrible. What if, instead of just copying existing magic items, the Infusions gave things like generic class/race features as well?
For instance, a sword with extra attack, or boots that give an extra 10 feet of movement, or armor that gives you extra carrying capacity, or weapons that allow the use of a fighting style, or an item that can cast artificer cantrips that you can hand out to party members, each one requiring attunement so they can't all be stacked on just one party member.
I dunno, what do you think? Good idea? Bad idea? Horrifically unbalanced?
I don't see any problem with this. They already have several generic item abilities in Infusions: Enhanced Weapon, Enhanced Defense, Returning Weapon are examples. I personally don't see issues with others like, maybe, flaming weapon, skill bonuses, Initiative & Proficiency bonuses, etc. Level requirements for some of these, along with those already existing should be more tied to Rarity. Currently, some of the Infused item artificer level requirements are way off. Odds are that some of the items you can only get as of 12th artificer you will have already found before you ever get that high a level.
I'd say bind the items to the suggested item level for a given Rarity instead. As a user/coder for Hero Lab I've been adding the new Artificer class to the 5E Community Pack, currently only for my own use and the use of those who want to try it out under beta conditions due to hard-coding issues. Because I have completed most of the coding, and am plaing with a few custom Archetypes for my own campaign, I am thinking of making a modified version with various changes to see how they play out in my own campaign setting (both Eberron and Forgotten Realms).
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Watch your back, conserve your ammo, and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
I'd like to see artificers gain the ability to attune magic items with attunement requirements. If not, I hope they at least errat(sp?) certain magic items that require attunement by a Warlock, Wizard or Sorcerer to include Artificer
I like that idea. Maybe just have an artificer ability that lets them attune to magic items that require wizard, sorcerer, or warlock attunement. Phrase it like this:
You may attune to magic items that specify that they must be attuned to by either a wizard, warlock, or sorcerer. In addition, whenever one of these terms specifies spells from the wizard, sorcerer, or warlock spell list, it instead draws from the artificer spell list for you.
I'd like to see artificers gain the ability to attune magic items with attunement requirements. If not, I hope they at least errat(sp?) certain magic items that require attunement by a Warlock, Wizard or Sorcerer to include Artificer
I very much like this idea!!! It makes sense to me that an Artificer can work out how to hack magic/wondrous item.
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Hjalmar Gunderson, Vuman Alchemist Plague Doctor in a HB Campaign, Post Netherese Invasion Cormyr (lvl20 retired) Godfrey, Autognome Butler in Ghosts of Saltmarsh into Spelljammer Grímr Skeggisson, Goliath Rune Knight in Rime of the Frostmaiden DM of two HB campaigns set in the same world.
I think a lot of these should be put into the Level 1 Magical Tinkering:
1. I liked the original Magical Item Analysis, although to make it feel even more unique instead of Ritual time I think it could be instant without expending spellslots, Int mod times per Long Rest.
2. Attuning to items reserved for Warlock, Wizard or Sorcerer (maybe Bard). And it could be interesting if they actually get the full effects without adjusting to Artificer, letting them steal some abilities from other classes. "Masters of Magical Items"
3. Some rules increasing the amount of crafting time an Artificer has access to during Adventure. I previously suggested changing Long Rest rules for Artificer to: Up to 6 hours of worktime with 2 hours of passed out rest, with no exhaustion. In exchange for no ability to take a watch.
4. Some options of what to do with the time, ie. the current minor Magical sensory items, plus any other schematics granted by the subclasses.
I think a lot of these should be put into the Level 1 Magical Tinkering:
1. I liked the original Magical Item Analysis, although to make it feel even more unique instead of Ritual time I think it could be instant without expending spellslots, Int mod times per Long Rest.
2. Attuning to items reserved for Warlock, Wizard or Sorcerer (maybe Bard). And it could be interesting if they actually get the full effects without adjusting to Artificer, letting them steal some abilities from other classes. "Masters of Magical Items"
3. Some rules increasing the amount of crafting time an Artificer has access to during Adventure. I previously suggested changing Long Rest rules for Artificer to: Up to 6 hours of worktime with 2 hours of passed out rest, with no exhaustion. In exchange for no ability to take a watch.
4. Some options of what to do with the time, ie. the current minor Magical sensory items, plus any other schematics granted by the subclasses.
1) +1
2) I've been toying with the idea of using a Replicate Item slot to Attune to a restricted item.
3) I allow my players to use a maximum of 2 hours, as part of a long rest, to be used towards downtime activities (where applicible).
I've been playing with the Schema concept from Eberron. If you have found, or made, a Schema of a magic item, then you can gain 1 of 2 benefits: a) Possessing a Schema, allows you to Replicate that magical item without a level restriction. b) Crafting such an item reduces the time & gold cost of crating an item by 1/2.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Watch your back, conserve your ammo, and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
New imbue items (upgrade to wand like with weapons and infinite ammo for those who like ranged weapons or at least ranged weapon characters in the party)
Slight changes to multiclassing with spell slots (the halfing your level now rounds up)
The Infusions known on page 5 is most likely incorrect as they had the same error on the original document and was corrected shortly after as the pdf was updated like a day later. Please notice the infusions known on the Artificer table, I may be wrong but I believe it is so an Artificer can swap out from day to day as they like to tinker.
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you are repeating yourself, as if i didn't understand a thing before... repeating yourself wont make me change my mind, nor will it make more sense to me as to what you are trying to explain. all i was saying, as mentionned above, is that interprettation is what most people base themselves of. and thats wrong for making a class.
as for wands being separate from the other features, i agree with that part. i also think that wands deserves their own specialisation. but... those saying wands slingers are for eberron... sorry but the core classes since the first editoion were already using that. and again i reiterate a fact here... keith baker didn't want to have wizards in his settings, and thus artificer are made to replace the wizard. or at least make a scientific version of them. so it would be normal for both classes to do the same shit.
DM of two gaming groups.
Likes to create stuff.
Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses
If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games
--> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
I don't mind WotC getting rid of Superior Attunement. I believe that benefits of Soul of Artifice more than makes up for it. Also a Tactician doesn't design and build turrets; they plan a strategy to achieve a specific goal.
My friend and I decided to co-DM a new campaign that's just us two. We''re starting with two level 1 Artificers (2019) who specialize in making magical artifacts for the average joe: things like a charm to hang in your larder so food stays fresh longer, or tape enchanted with the Alarm spell. They've decided that they want to be thieves, so they're about to go on a series of heists. More information to come later as we play through this adventure and see how the artificers interact with each other and the world around them. Oh, and the artificers are located in Waterdeep. Which I think is cool.
It seems we are on the same page then @DnDPaladin just communication error :-)
@Marine2874 the reason I use 1 session as my timeline for a core feature is driven from my experience, as discussed before I have only DMed oneshots and barely played past 3 sessions with the same group. So in my experience if the core features of the class as given by level 2 don’t occur often enough you just feel like a commoner.
Also there is a very strong correlation in my experience in classes that have no frequent feature and the amount of complaint about the class. Ki, Rage, Sneak Attack, Action Surge, Smite, ... , Channel Divinity?, Wildshape, Bardic Inspiration, Invocations, Metamagic, ... . Each of above happen at least once per session and when they do it really makes you feel like that class and no other class could do what you just did. Of the above missing I think Rangers Favourite Enemy & Natural Explorer fall into trap of being too DM dependant which is a common complaint. And Wizard’s spellbook, also DM dependant but I would probably let them find a scroll in every second room of a dungeon just to make it 1 spell learned per session.
Lastly I mean every single class has a lot of abilities per level for 1,2,3 and you have removed the only cool one besides Spellcasting and Subclass, it does have to be replaced with something or it is a dead level.
@Marine2874
You do seem to think anything on the Artificer that is stronger than anything else on other classes is a big NoNo, even if it comes with restrictions. I believe we have discussed Cantrips, Magic Items and Attunement slots as power creep. I just don’t agree that a new class can be created with only the rules already written it needs to have something new and more. While having restrictions like half casting, lack of weapons, low amounts of Cantrips at a time, limits on known and held magic items. All good restrictions.
Check your private message.
Check your private message.
So, there's an idea I've been chewing on, but I'm not sure if it's a good idea or absolutely terrible. What if, instead of just copying existing magic items, the Infusions gave things like generic class/race features as well?
For instance, a sword with extra attack, or boots that give an extra 10 feet of movement, or armor that gives you extra carrying capacity, or weapons that allow the use of a fighting style, or an item that can cast artificer cantrips that you can hand out to party members, each one requiring attunement so they can't all be stacked on just one party member.
I dunno, what do you think? Good idea? Bad idea? Horrifically unbalanced?
Not all of the infused items have to be carried/used by a single party member. It mentions in the UA that you don't need to be the one attuned to an infused item that has the attunement requirement. As a matter of fact, any of your party members can carry/ use an infused item.
The fighting style would be a nogo. That is something that only training and experience could offer. In my own opinion. As for the cantrip...... It would probably have to be limited to a single damage die, have a limited number a charges, and only certain cantrips.
I don't see any problem with this. They already have several generic item abilities in Infusions: Enhanced Weapon, Enhanced Defense, Returning Weapon are examples. I personally don't see issues with others like, maybe, flaming weapon, skill bonuses, Initiative & Proficiency bonuses, etc. Level requirements for some of these, along with those already existing should be more tied to Rarity. Currently, some of the Infused item artificer level requirements are way off. Odds are that some of the items you can only get as of 12th artificer you will have already found before you ever get that high a level.
I'd say bind the items to the suggested item level for a given Rarity instead. As a user/coder for Hero Lab I've been adding the new Artificer class to the 5E Community Pack, currently only for my own use and the use of those who want to try it out under beta conditions due to hard-coding issues. Because I have completed most of the coding, and am plaing with a few custom Archetypes for my own campaign, I am thinking of making a modified version with various changes to see how they play out in my own campaign setting (both Eberron and Forgotten Realms).
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
sounds fun!
I'd like to see artificers gain the ability to attune magic items with attunement requirements. If not, I hope they at least errat(sp?) certain magic items that require attunement by a Warlock, Wizard or Sorcerer to include Artificer
I like that idea. Maybe just have an artificer ability that lets them attune to magic items that require wizard, sorcerer, or warlock attunement. Phrase it like this:
You may attune to magic items that specify that they must be attuned to by either a wizard, warlock, or sorcerer. In addition, whenever one of these terms specifies spells from the wizard, sorcerer, or warlock spell list, it instead draws from the artificer spell list for you.
DM for 3 campaigns
Lizardfolk Battle Smith Artificer
Gnome War Wizard
Human Tempest Cleric
I very much like this idea!!! It makes sense to me that an Artificer can work out how to hack magic/wondrous item.
Hjalmar Gunderson, Vuman Alchemist Plague Doctor in a HB Campaign, Post Netherese Invasion Cormyr (lvl20 retired)
Godfrey, Autognome Butler in Ghosts of Saltmarsh into Spelljammer
Grímr Skeggisson, Goliath Rune Knight in Rime of the Frostmaiden
DM of two HB campaigns set in the same world.
I think a lot of these should be put into the Level 1 Magical Tinkering:
1. I liked the original Magical Item Analysis, although to make it feel even more unique instead of Ritual time I think it could be instant without expending spellslots, Int mod times per Long Rest.
2. Attuning to items reserved for Warlock, Wizard or Sorcerer (maybe Bard). And it could be interesting if they actually get the full effects without adjusting to Artificer, letting them steal some abilities from other classes. "Masters of Magical Items"
3. Some rules increasing the amount of crafting time an Artificer has access to during Adventure. I previously suggested changing Long Rest rules for Artificer to: Up to 6 hours of worktime with 2 hours of passed out rest, with no exhaustion. In exchange for no ability to take a watch.
4. Some options of what to do with the time, ie. the current minor Magical sensory items, plus any other schematics granted by the subclasses.
1) +1
2) I've been toying with the idea of using a Replicate Item slot to Attune to a restricted item.
3) I allow my players to use a maximum of 2 hours, as part of a long rest, to be used towards downtime activities (where applicible).
I've been playing with the Schema concept from Eberron. If you have found, or made, a Schema of a magic item, then you can gain 1 of 2 benefits:
a) Possessing a Schema, allows you to Replicate that magical item without a level restriction.
b) Crafting such an item reduces the time & gold cost of crating an item by 1/2.
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
Artificer got an update
https://media.wizards.com/2019/dnd/downloads/UA-Artificer2-2019.pdf
2 new subclasses
Xanathar spells added to spell list
New imbue items (upgrade to wand like with weapons and infinite ammo for those who like ranged weapons or at least ranged weapon characters in the party)
Slight changes to multiclassing with spell slots (the halfing your level now rounds up)
No changes to abilities, or what they do
Loex - A Lizardfolk Lvl 4/6/4 Hexblade Profane Blood Hunter/ Battlesmith Artificer/ Cleric of the Forge
Arborea - A Warforged Lvl 1 Hexblade Warlock
DM - "Malign Intelligence"
One thing to note Jeremy mentioned further alterations to the artificer will not occur until after an upcoming survey
Loex - A Lizardfolk Lvl 4/6/4 Hexblade Profane Blood Hunter/ Battlesmith Artificer/ Cleric of the Forge
Arborea - A Warforged Lvl 1 Hexblade Warlock
DM - "Malign Intelligence"
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The Infusions known on page 5 is most likely incorrect as they had the same error on the original document and was corrected shortly after as the pdf was updated like a day later. Please notice the infusions known on the Artificer table, I may be wrong but I believe it is so an Artificer can swap out from day to day as they like to tinker.