There should even be Casters that use Psionics in addition to Spells and viceversa, but the two abilities should not use the same exact mechanics and lists.
Iam a full psion class would be a caster with slight mechanical differences, who, lorewise does not cast spells, but it would probably be handled like the artificer.
A full Psion class should not be anything like the Artificer. A full Psion should not cast spells. I started playing a Psionicist back in 2e. I don’t really care whatever else WotC feels they need to change for game balance, the one thing that drives me absolutely bonkers is the lazy game design of “just make them spells.” The one thing they absolutely should not be is just another “caster.” “Caster Equivalent” absolutely, but not “Casters.” Psychic powers=/=spells. I will accept that Psionics is “Magic” I refuse to accept that psychics need “Spells.” Shouting “Abracadabra!” and making a star pattern in the air with lightning struck willow stick and “casting” Witch Bolt. That is “Spell Casting.” That is not Carrie or Firestarter or Beyond: Two Souls, orStranger Things, orVibes, or anything else even remotely Psychic.
I am aware that that is probably the direction 5e is going. I am aware that the foul abomination of a Wizard Subclass is most likely going to be the closest thing we get to a full Psion. But I don’t have to like it.
Regards,
Sposta
PS- That Wizard Subclass is fine as a “Psionic Wizard Subclass,” but it should not be “The Psion.”
Of course it is not a psion, i agree with you wholeheartedly on that front. Also eleven, canonically, her dnd class is a mage.
Because back in 1983-85 (the period for Stranger Things seasons 1-3) the “Classes” consisted of: Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, Mage, Elf, Dwarf, and Halfling.
The first mention of Psionics was in Eldritch Wizardry (1976), but it wasn’t until October 1983 “Spells can be psionic, too: How and why magic resembles mental powers". Dragon (#78): 70–75 that the first unofficial Psionic class came out. The first official Psionicist class wasn’t until AD&D 2nd Edition in 1992 with the arrival of The Complete Psionics Handbook.
I think the next UA will have a bard college, College of Psyche perhaps? This might relate to singing/playing an instrument to distract people, possibly similar to the Mind Sliver cantrip? Then a paladin oath, possibly Oath of Poignance, protecting others with mind power, similar to Oath of Redemption? The last subclass will possibly be a druid, Circle of the Spirit, can shift into thought form, possibly mind controlling beasts?
I would love a barbarian, Path of the Pathos, possibly? Creating "auras" of thought from their rage. A cleric Thought Domain could be interesting, we already have the monk, Way of the Astral Self, a Ranger would be interesting, I'm not sure what it would be called, or what it would do. We already have a sorcerer and warlock and wizard that could work.
I would really like a new class, a Psion, or Mystic, maybe Spirit-Walker? Dream Shifter?
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I haven't really thought much about Psions or Mystics but i just came about this tweet and thought it was a neat way to differentiate Psionics without making up a whole new, clunky system for it:
That tweet is predicated on using the Mystic Class, which already has the clunkiest system I have ever seen for Psionics. 2e Psionicist was more straight forward than the Mystic.
Psionics are INT, not CON. And the mystic system of psionics was actually pretty reasonable and balanced. If they limited them to subclasses
In OD&D, there were 6 Disciplines (those would basically translate into the subclasses), and each one Contained many different powers, and every power used a different Ability Score. In 3.0 and 3.5 I think each of the 6 Disciplines was tied to one of the 6 Abilities Scores. Using Con is not unheard of.
As for the Mystic, IMO having to switch around focus was a pain. How many players forget Hex or Hunter’s Mark on their first attack? The disciple were all cattywompus too, they didn’t fit together properly. If they had: made the six 3rd edition Disciplines into the 6 Subclasses; had what they called Disciplines as “Powers,” broken them up better into smaller note-sized chunks; cut the number from 10 down to 6-8; but just added a pinch of power to each as a balance; made you pick at least half from within your Discipline; just gave the Focus Powers to you like Eldritch Invocations; cut the number of Psi point and the costs down to reasonable numbers.... Then it might have been easier to play, easier to balance, and easier to accept. As it stood it wasn’t “broken,” it was just a pain in the ass.
I think they might spread discipines between other classes, save a couple for the actual psion. And Psion will be INT based. mark my words. The Psionic subclasses are all INT based.
I think they might spread discipines between other classes, save a couple for the actual psion. And Psion will be INT based. mark my words. The Psionic subclasses are all INT based.
I agree, INT just makes sense. WIS I'd put as the second best option, CON third.
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I think they might spread discipines between other classes, save a couple for the actual psion. And Psion will be INT based. mark my words. The Psionic subclasses are all INT based.
I know the 5e Psion (if there actually is one, which I hope for, but still doubt) will be Int based and I personally Agree to that change. I also agree to Psionics being Magic for game balance purposes. Something like:
“Psionicists have no need for such clumsy trappings as Spells. For to be a Psionicist is to manipulate The Weave directly with the power of the mind. Since a Psion needs no spells to force The Weave into submission, Psionicists do not damage The Weave through the use of their powers. Since there are no spells, there is nothing for the gods to limit....”
Not so hard to accept that explanation, is it?
Then basically the “Powers” would act more like a set of Features you spend some arbitrary resource to use than the would “Spells.” That would make everything SOOOO much simpler for everyone. Basically they would functionally work in a way that felt “spell like” but balance like Class Features with # of uses/LR. Much like the Psionic Subclasses we’re getting.... 🤔🤫 Only difference is they would have a Wizards Hit Dice and Proficiencies, Int and Con Saves, and the ability to choose 1/2 their own Class Features and all of their own Subclass Features, and “spend Psi Points to activate the powers” instead of “spend slots to cast spells.” As long as the few powers were really versatile like “Psychokinesis Discipline gives you access to the powers: Telekinesis, Psychlevitation, Force Manipulation, and Object Reading (just to give it a little diversity) among 1 or 2 other choices. If Telekinesis was like Mage Hand, Catapult, Levitate, Telekinesis, and Bigby’s Hand all combined and scaled from level 1-9 into “Psionic Mastery Ranks 1-5” just to make it different (and easier to track/balance). People are stuck on the whole “Psionic Powers are just like Spells, why change it?” kick. It shouldn’t have to be that complicated.
That is exactly what I am talking about! The Disciplines that do those! Yes! We agree on something! WooooOOO! (also jeremy crawford has said that they are still open to a psion class, they are just currently working on how that would function)
That is exactly what I am talking about! The Disciplines that do those! Yes! We agree on something! WooooOOO! (also jeremy crawford has said that they are still open to a psion class, they are just currently working on how that would function)
Exactly, it should function similar to spells, not the same, it should be simple. Mind powers are easy to do, so it should be easy to play. Spells are complex to complete, so their rules should be more complex. You should be able to choose most of your abilities so you don't just have to be a telekinetic, you can also have telepathy and far sight. I so hope a Psion class comes out soon without using spells and spell slots. I really want something different to make psionics better.
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There should even be Casters that use Psionics in addition to Spells and viceversa, but the two abilities should not use the same exact mechanics and lists.
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Iam a full psion class would be a caster with slight mechanical differences, who, lorewise does not cast spells, but it would probably be handled like the artificer.
Buns,
A full Psion class should not be anything like the Artificer. A full Psion should not cast spells. I started playing a Psionicist back in 2e. I don’t really care whatever else WotC feels they need to change for game balance, the one thing that drives me absolutely bonkers is the lazy game design of “just make them spells.” The one thing they absolutely should not be is just another “caster.” “Caster Equivalent” absolutely, but not “Casters.” Psychic powers=/=spells. I will accept that Psionics is “Magic” I refuse to accept that psychics need “Spells.”
Shouting “Abracadabra!” and making a star pattern in the air with lightning struck willow stick and “casting” Witch Bolt. That is “Spell Casting.” That is not Carrie or Firestarter or Beyond: Two Souls, orStranger Things, orVibes, or anything else even remotely Psychic.
I am aware that that is probably the direction 5e is going. I am aware that the foul abomination of a Wizard Subclass is most likely going to be the closest thing we get to a full Psion. But I don’t have to like it.
Regards,
Sposta
PS- That Wizard Subclass is fine as a “Psionic Wizard Subclass,” but it should not be “The Psion.”
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Of course it is not a psion, i agree with you wholeheartedly on that front. Also eleven, canonically, her dnd class is a mage.
Because back in 1983-85 (the period for Stranger Things seasons 1-3) the “Classes” consisted of: Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, Mage, Elf, Dwarf, and Halfling.
The first mention of Psionics was in Eldritch Wizardry (1976), but it wasn’t until October 1983 “Spells can be psionic, too: How and why magic resembles mental powers". Dragon (#78): 70–75 that the first unofficial Psionic class came out. The first official Psionicist class wasn’t until AD&D 2nd Edition in 1992 with the arrival of The Complete Psionics Handbook.
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A few things I've noticed (that may make some people feel better):
All previous instances of psionic spellcasting in 5e has done so without the verbal or somatic components.
The UA psionic spells are for bard, sorcerer, warlock, and wizard. So there may not be a psionic cleric, druid, paladin, or ranger.
I noticed that. But a “Psionic Wizard” is still not a Psion.
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I think the next UA will have a bard college, College of Psyche perhaps? This might relate to singing/playing an instrument to distract people, possibly similar to the Mind Sliver cantrip? Then a paladin oath, possibly Oath of Poignance, protecting others with mind power, similar to Oath of Redemption? The last subclass will possibly be a druid, Circle of the Spirit, can shift into thought form, possibly mind controlling beasts?
I would love a barbarian, Path of the Pathos, possibly? Creating "auras" of thought from their rage. A cleric Thought Domain could be interesting, we already have the monk, Way of the Astral Self, a Ranger would be interesting, I'm not sure what it would be called, or what it would do. We already have a sorcerer and warlock and wizard that could work.
I would really like a new class, a Psion, or Mystic, maybe Spirit-Walker? Dream Shifter?
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I haven't really thought much about Psions or Mystics but i just came about this tweet and thought it was a neat way to differentiate Psionics without making up a whole new, clunky system for it:
https://twitter.com/POCGamer/status/1204894768083324928?s=20
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That tweet is predicated on using the Mystic Class, which already has the clunkiest system I have ever seen for Psionics. 2e Psionicist was more straight forward than the Mystic.
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I actually just dug up my old 1991 copy of The Complete Psionics Handbook to try and make a viable Psionicist Class for one of my players.
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Psionics are INT, not CON. And the mystic system of psionics was actually pretty reasonable and balanced. If they limited them to subclasses
It was a little much for one class though.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
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In OD&D, there were 6 Disciplines (those would basically translate into the subclasses), and each one Contained many different powers, and every power used a different Ability Score. In 3.0 and 3.5 I think each of the 6 Disciplines was tied to one of the 6 Abilities Scores. Using Con is not unheard of.
As for the Mystic, IMO having to switch around focus was a pain. How many players forget Hex or Hunter’s Mark on their first attack? The disciple were all cattywompus too, they didn’t fit together properly. If they had: made the six 3rd edition Disciplines into the 6 Subclasses; had what they called Disciplines as “Powers,” broken them up better into smaller note-sized chunks; cut the number from 10 down to 6-8; but just added a pinch of power to each as a balance; made you pick at least half from within your Discipline; just gave the Focus Powers to you like Eldritch Invocations; cut the number of Psi point and the costs down to reasonable numbers.... Then it might have been easier to play, easier to balance, and easier to accept. As it stood it wasn’t “broken,” it was just a pain in the ass.
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I think they might spread discipines between other classes, save a couple for the actual psion. And Psion will be INT based. mark my words. The Psionic subclasses are all INT based.
I agree, INT just makes sense. WIS I'd put as the second best option, CON third.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
This is how I feel about the UA mystic. It was a system as complicated as the entirety of spellcasting, but was only used for a single class.
I know the 5e Psion (if there actually is one, which I hope for, but still doubt) will be Int based and I personally Agree to that change. I also agree to Psionics being Magic for game balance purposes. Something like:
“Psionicists have no need for such clumsy trappings as Spells. For to be a Psionicist is to manipulate The Weave directly with the power of the mind. Since a Psion needs no spells to force The Weave into submission, Psionicists do not damage The Weave through the use of their powers. Since there are no spells, there is nothing for the gods to limit....”
Not so hard to accept that explanation, is it?
Then basically the “Powers” would act more like a set of Features you spend some arbitrary resource to use than the would “Spells.” That would make everything SOOOO much simpler for everyone. Basically they would functionally work in a way that felt “spell like” but balance like Class Features with # of uses/LR. Much like the Psionic Subclasses we’re getting.... 🤔🤫 Only difference is they would have a Wizards Hit Dice and Proficiencies, Int and Con Saves, and the ability to choose 1/2 their own Class Features and all of their own Subclass Features, and “spend Psi Points to activate the powers” instead of “spend slots to cast spells.” As long as the few powers were really versatile like “Psychokinesis Discipline gives you access to the powers: Telekinesis, Psychlevitation, Force Manipulation, and Object Reading (just to give it a little diversity) among 1 or 2 other choices. If Telekinesis was like Mage Hand, Catapult, Levitate, Telekinesis, and Bigby’s Hand all combined and scaled from level 1-9 into “Psionic Mastery Ranks 1-5” just to make it different (and easier to track/balance). People are stuck on the whole “Psionic Powers are just like Spells, why change it?” kick. It shouldn’t have to be that complicated.
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That is exactly what I am talking about! The Disciplines that do those! Yes! We agree on something! WooooOOO! (also jeremy crawford has said that they are still open to a psion class, they are just currently working on how that would function)
Exactly, it should function similar to spells, not the same, it should be simple. Mind powers are easy to do, so it should be easy to play. Spells are complex to complete, so their rules should be more complex. You should be able to choose most of your abilities so you don't just have to be a telekinetic, you can also have telepathy and far sight. I so hope a Psion class comes out soon without using spells and spell slots. I really want something different to make psionics better.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms