I suggest a new thread; this one technically refers to a document that doesn't exist anymore (at least initially), so any new discussion should probably start anew.
Also, any new people coming and seeing the number of posts for this thread might assume we're talking about the new PDF anyway.
In this case, I'm not a fan of the proposed version of the final ability.
Why exactly?
I think personally, I love something a little blastier but otherwise, it feels... I guess underwhelming? The heal is nice, but at that level, basically just a top up so you don't get knocked down again by a random goblin, the repair feels niche and so does the spell removal. Nice if you don't already have one, maybe not so great if someone else was already packing a decent dispel magic. Again tho, I love the use of sorcery points to use the ability again, this kinda stuff really should become baseline. 6th Edition when, I suppose.
My final word of wisdom on the subject of Love/Unity Cleric is that anything can be taken to the wrong level. There is a middle spot that is fine to play as in any theme, but taken to either extreme is bad. Nothing is stopping any random player from knocking out commoners and having their way with them, but Love Clerics were especially good at it. I don't think it encourages, but it certainly helps with that type of behavior. I, for one, am happier with the final version than the first, though I do think that Unity really shouldn't be a domain.
I don't want to keep arguing about this, but I will stand by what I said, every bit of it.
Have a good day, all of you.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
In this case, I'm not a fan of the proposed version of the final ability.
Why exactly?
I think personally, I love something a little blastier but otherwise, it feels... I guess underwhelming? The heal is nice, but at that level, basically just a top up so you don't get knocked down again by a random goblin, the repair feels niche and so does the spell removal. Nice if you don't already have one, maybe not so great if someone else was already packing a decent dispel magic. Again tho, I love the use of sorcery points to use the ability again, this kinda stuff really should become baseline. 6th Edition when, I suppose.
At that level, a "random goblin" is the least of your problems. It's not quite Mass Heal, but it's still decent, especially since you can distribute it to those who need it. Also the repair is niche, but as it is written, it can have some incredible out-of-combat uses. I don't think this can be compared to dispel magic either because this just ends the spells outright, whereas Dispel Magic may require a spellcasting ability check to do the same thing and it consumes spell slots. Also this isn't a showy or blasty subclass; this is a subclass around a robot boi who just wants things to be orderly. That said, Trance of Order is a pretty epic feature.
I mean it is, because number of attacks is often more telling than quality of attacks and it's not like you can really heal someone out of range of something that much bigger than a Goblin. What's a Dragon's average DPR again? It's still decent I just don't think it's worth the 18th level ability it's sitting in. But Sorcerer has long had that problem.
Dispel Magic is pretty comparable tbh, it affects 6th or lower spells? So does a Dispel Magic cast at 7th level, right? It's nice, but also p niche. I think the fact it's AoE is it's best feature, but how often will that come up?
I am aware of the nature of the subclass, but even as a support that final ability feels lackluster.
Yeah, the Trance is interesting. That kind of "bastion of order" could make for cool moments on a hectic and chaotic battlefield. The problem with such an ability is how much I wish we could use it earlier.
Yeah I mean, Arcana checks do exist so knowing it's a spell is pretty easy, why do you need to know which spell it is specifically? For sure we don't know it on auto, but still.
I think that, while the number of times you both need to cast one of those out of combat bomb spells and also need to dispel a high level magic effect or more is a non zero amount, it's still overall, very, very niche. What this ability is bringing to the table compared to another high level caster feels very minimal. A whole lotta small (relative to the power level at 18th level) things add up to a big nothing.
I think I'd prefer a multi use ability which had the effects listed as choices on a long rest. Heal/Dispel/Fix is a good trio, I just rarely think you want all 3 at once.
I suppose, but that stands true for your subclass trick as well? Hate to pop your ability only to find out they'd cast a 7th level version of something. Maybe it needs a scaleability feature as well? More SS or SP to increase the heal and the dispel?
Yeah I agree the fix and then leave thing feels a lot like flavour text. Unsure if creation is exactly where they want to go, but maybe like having a spirit hang out with each creature of your choice for a while? providing a minor benefit, like disadvantage cancelling or something like that for a couple rounds.
I do like alot of the clockwork sorcerer. However, it's strange that a feature that gives a trance-like state of mind doesn't provide any mental protection like constructs tend to have.
If they where able to construct anything, would that include golem? However the wording brings to mind spirit guardians more than anything. With construct spirits.
This sorcerer is great. It reflects mechanus pretty well. I really do not understand the level 18 ability, however. Well, I guess I understand it but... it feels weird? It's not bad or anything, just a little strange. I certainly hope this one gets printed.
The bard I like in concept, but think it needs a mechanical rehaul before it comes out. As it currently stands, I have no idea what kind of role in the party this bard is supposed to play. Is it supposed to use summons? Support? Utility? I just don't get what to do with the mechanics presented other than using them, but they feel disconnected in effect.
My feelings on the cleric are complicated, but personally i think it should be reworked somewhat for flavor before it gets printed. I am not that big a fan of the flavor currently given (I liked the flavor of the love cleric, with a few minor exceptions). Idk... I don't really know how to feel about it.
The "Collector's Call" feature of the Noble Genie seems a little weird mechanically:
"In exchange for extending your patron’s influence over the multiverse, you can call on more of their power. As an action, you can implore your patron for aid by making a Charisma (Persuasion) check against your warlock spell save DC."
Since you're having to beat your own spell save DC, succeeding in the using the feature gets harder as you rise in level. I guess it's a wash assuming you're proficient in Persuasion, but it still seems a little weird to me.
The "Collector's Call" feature of the Noble Genie seems a little weird mechanically:
"In exchange for extending your patron’s influence over the multiverse, you can call on more of their power. As an action, you can implore your patron for aid by making a Charisma (Persuasion) check against your warlock spell save DC."
Since you're having to beat your own spell save DC, succeeding in the using the feature gets harder as you rise in level. I guess it's a wash assuming you're proficient in Persuasion, but it still seems a little weird to me.
This is technically the wrong thread for this UA, but since the comment is here...
If you find some way to get Expertise in Persuasion, you've arrived. The Prodigy Feat, single level in Rogue, or three levels in Bard come to mind.
The bard I like in concept, but think it needs a mechanical rehaul before it comes out. As it currently stands, I have no idea what kind of role in the party this bard is supposed to play. Is it supposed to use summons? Support? Utility? I just don't get what to do with the mechanics presented other than using them, but they feel disconnected in effect.
Agreed. Love the first ability, but the Dancing Item feels odd - a worse Spiritual Weapon spell. And the third level ability is, well, just there. Doesn't really do anything, imho, especially once you're at level 14. I don't think conjuring mundane objects really help much at this point, compared to the Conjurer and Forge who get them far lower levels.
The bard I like in concept, but think it needs a mechanical rehaul before it comes out. As it currently stands, I have no idea what kind of role in the party this bard is supposed to play. Is it supposed to use summons? Support? Utility? I just don't get what to do with the mechanics presented other than using them, but they feel disconnected in effect.
Agreed. Love the first ability, but the Dancing Item feels odd - a worse Spiritual Weapon spell. And the third level ability is, well, just there. Doesn't really do anything, imho, especially once you're at level 14. I don't think conjuring mundane objects really help much at this point, compared to the Conjurer and Forge who get them far lower levels.
The bard I like in concept, but think it needs a mechanical rehaul before it comes out. As it currently stands, I have no idea what kind of role in the party this bard is supposed to play. Is it supposed to use summons? Support? Utility? I just don't get what to do with the mechanics presented other than using them, but they feel disconnected in effect.
Agreed. Love the first ability, but the Dancing Item feels odd - a worse Spiritual Weapon spell. And the third level ability is, well, just there. Doesn't really do anything, imho, especially once you're at level 14. I don't think conjuring mundane objects really help much at this point, compared to the Conjurer and Forge who get them far lower levels.
Tho to be fair, Spiritual Weapon can't tank.
The ability also isn't a spell.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
I suggest a new thread; this one technically refers to a document that doesn't exist anymore (at least initially), so any new discussion should probably start anew.
Also, any new people coming and seeing the number of posts for this thread might assume we're talking about the new PDF anyway.
Gnome Armorist - Artificer Subclass Homebrew
I think personally, I love something a little blastier but otherwise, it feels... I guess underwhelming? The heal is nice, but at that level, basically just a top up so you don't get knocked down again by a random goblin, the repair feels niche and so does the spell removal. Nice if you don't already have one, maybe not so great if someone else was already packing a decent dispel magic. Again tho, I love the use of sorcery points to use the ability again, this kinda stuff really should become baseline. 6th Edition when, I suppose.
My final word of wisdom on the subject of Love/Unity Cleric is that anything can be taken to the wrong level. There is a middle spot that is fine to play as in any theme, but taken to either extreme is bad. Nothing is stopping any random player from knocking out commoners and having their way with them, but Love Clerics were especially good at it. I don't think it encourages, but it certainly helps with that type of behavior. I, for one, am happier with the final version than the first, though I do think that Unity really shouldn't be a domain.
I don't want to keep arguing about this, but I will stand by what I said, every bit of it.
Have a good day, all of you.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I mean it is, because number of attacks is often more telling than quality of attacks and it's not like you can really heal someone out of range of something that much bigger than a Goblin. What's a Dragon's average DPR again? It's still decent I just don't think it's worth the 18th level ability it's sitting in. But Sorcerer has long had that problem.
Dispel Magic is pretty comparable tbh, it affects 6th or lower spells? So does a Dispel Magic cast at 7th level, right? It's nice, but also p niche. I think the fact it's AoE is it's best feature, but how often will that come up?
I am aware of the nature of the subclass, but even as a support that final ability feels lackluster.
Yeah, the Trance is interesting. That kind of "bastion of order" could make for cool moments on a hectic and chaotic battlefield. The problem with such an ability is how much I wish we could use it earlier.
Please take all personal discussion/debate to Private Messages. The public forum is not the place to host mud-slinging.
Thank you.
Yeah I mean, Arcana checks do exist so knowing it's a spell is pretty easy, why do you need to know which spell it is specifically? For sure we don't know it on auto, but still.
I think that, while the number of times you both need to cast one of those out of combat bomb spells and also need to dispel a high level magic effect or more is a non zero amount, it's still overall, very, very niche. What this ability is bringing to the table compared to another high level caster feels very minimal. A whole lotta small (relative to the power level at 18th level) things add up to a big nothing.
I think I'd prefer a multi use ability which had the effects listed as choices on a long rest. Heal/Dispel/Fix is a good trio, I just rarely think you want all 3 at once.
I suppose, but that stands true for your subclass trick as well? Hate to pop your ability only to find out they'd cast a 7th level version of something. Maybe it needs a scaleability feature as well? More SS or SP to increase the heal and the dispel?
Yeah I agree the fix and then leave thing feels a lot like flavour text. Unsure if creation is exactly where they want to go, but maybe like having a spirit hang out with each creature of your choice for a while? providing a minor benefit, like disadvantage cancelling or something like that for a couple rounds.
I do like alot of the clockwork sorcerer. However, it's strange that a feature that gives a trance-like state of mind doesn't provide any mental protection like constructs tend to have.
If they where able to construct anything, would that include golem? However the wording brings to mind spirit guardians more than anything. With construct spirits.
I think allowing them to be immune to any shape changing abilities would be good, but maybe too powerful.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
This sorcerer is great. It reflects mechanus pretty well. I really do not understand the level 18 ability, however. Well, I guess I understand it but... it feels weird? It's not bad or anything, just a little strange. I certainly hope this one gets printed.
The bard I like in concept, but think it needs a mechanical rehaul before it comes out. As it currently stands, I have no idea what kind of role in the party this bard is supposed to play. Is it supposed to use summons? Support? Utility? I just don't get what to do with the mechanics presented other than using them, but they feel disconnected in effect.
My feelings on the cleric are complicated, but personally i think it should be reworked somewhat for flavor before it gets printed. I am not that big a fan of the flavor currently given (I liked the flavor of the love cleric, with a few minor exceptions). Idk... I don't really know how to feel about it.
The "Collector's Call" feature of the Noble Genie seems a little weird mechanically:
"In exchange for extending your patron’s influence over the multiverse, you can call on more of their power. As an action, you can implore your patron for aid by making a Charisma (Persuasion) check against your warlock spell save DC."
Since you're having to beat your own spell save DC, succeeding in the using the feature gets harder as you rise in level. I guess it's a wash assuming you're proficient in Persuasion, but it still seems a little weird to me.
This is technically the wrong thread for this UA, but since the comment is here...
If you find some way to get Expertise in Persuasion, you've arrived. The Prodigy Feat, single level in Rogue, or three levels in Bard come to mind.
Partway through the quest for absolute truth.
Agreed. Love the first ability, but the Dancing Item feels odd - a worse Spiritual Weapon spell. And the third level ability is, well, just there. Doesn't really do anything, imho, especially once you're at level 14. I don't think conjuring mundane objects really help much at this point, compared to the Conjurer and Forge who get them far lower levels.
Tho to be fair, Spiritual Weapon can't tank.
The ability also isn't a spell.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Less relevant to the Spiritual Weapon comparison as SW doesn't require concentration anyways iirc
Spiritual Weapon can be counterspelled, this ability can't.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms