Love cleric gets Potent Spellcasting because all cleric domains get either Potent Spellcasting or Divine Strike at 8th level. No exceptions. Loveboat Priest is clearly not a striker, so...yeah.
Hm.
The bard is awkward, not gonna lie. This 'Song of Creation' mumbo is a thin excuse for what amounts to a School of Conjuration bard. It's functional but it doesn't seem terribly exciting.
The cleric is...a thing. Heh, feels like it would've been more interesting for its mini-marriage ability to get "lasts until you use this ability again" at higher levels, allow the cleric to forge a permanent bond at the cost of their ability, but ehh. It does the usual UA thing of giving you one ability the entirety of the subclass is then geared around, which is sometimes okay and sometimes weird. In this case it seems at least reasonably on point, but man. I can't look at this thing and not think of all those mothers in the world nagging their kid to go and get married and give them grandkids already.
Love Cleric: "Now, I met this really nice boy in Emon the other day, works as a Templar of Bahamut, volunteers with the local puppy orphanage! I managed to convince him to swing by and say hi, maybe go on an adventure with us!" Rogue: "Oh my GAWD, will you knock this shit off?! I'm not looking for a husband!" Love Cleric: "Don't get snippy with me, missy! I know you're not looking for a husband; that's why I'm trying to do it for you, Lady knows with the way you dress and all the time you spend in ancient tombs of unspeakable evil, a husband's not gonna find you without some divine assistance! Now shut up and go on a magic date with the nice boy!" . .. ...now I actually kind of want one of these things in my party sometime. Just for the laughs.
ANYWAYS.
'Clockwork Soul' is a really damn weird theme, not sure if the thematics are jiving with me, but at least now we've got a perfect Sorcerous Origin for all those folks saying "man, how do you even make a warforged sorcerer?!" The abilities are interesting - you can effectively nullify advantage and disadvantage on any roll within sixty feet of you, which I will add allows this sorcerer to nullify Magic Resistance on high-level critters making saves against their spells or someone else's. Straight roll on Hold Monster for you, Pit Fiend. **** off and get held. Bulwark is decent enough for catching spikes, though man. This thing is going to be starved beyond comprehension for sorcery points given how damn SP-hungry all its features are.
Trance is Super Saiyan Reliable Talent in a can, which is amazing. The duration sucks, but pop this mother before a big, dicey fight and you're (literally) golden. No bad rolls at all, which could be really critical in a save-heavy battle. The Cavalcade thing is visually hilarious and potentially helpful, but pretty nichey. Decent way of nailing mid-level Dispell Magics without actually needing Dispel Magic, I suppose.
Better than Part 1, no godawful flops like Noble Genie, but man...is anyone else starting to get burnt out on this unceasing floodtide torrent of UA subclasses? Just...just print the book already, Wizards. Whatever you're gearing up for, just stop teasing it already.
Note of Potential: It really wants to remind you that you can use your Bardic Inspirations for Combat capabilities, The damage is going to fade off in power fairly quickly since it does not add your charisma modifier, the Note of Protection is Temp HP, but can be timed by the user, and the note of inspiration is just a nicer inspiration. The Note of Protection is really the winner here because that D12 AE by the time you can really make use of it is not going to be that great an idea.
Animating Performance: Oh boy! an attack Pet, which can be a valid target for those Bardic Inspirations that cause 1d12 extra damage. No sarcasm here this is a really good playstyle defining combo. In my original review I suggested moving the ability from level 14 to 6, someone must have agreed.
Performance of Creation: This is almost the Illusion Wizards ability that lets them create Illusions into REAL things. While the intended use is to create usuable tools and items I'm more inclined to use it to alter the world around me, such as replacing an open hallway with a 10ft Brick Wall and letting someone looney tunes into it. I'm less happy about the item making glimmering intangible notes and giving off sound though. Limits the usefulness.
All in all, I see this one as an Illusionist focused Bard and as with all such Illusions, your success depends on what your DM will let you get away with. So I would heavily recommend feeling out how they feel about illusions before going this route.
Everything about this subclass really flows and fits together nicely into a cohesive whole and sits somewhere inbetween the Bard and the Cleric in playstyle.
The spell list feels heavily support Bard Inspired with a lot of Control Spells that the Cleric might not normally enjoy, and as the old MMO saying goes "Damage not done is Damage you dont have to waste time healing".
Emboldening Bond is a very healthy concentration less Bless for 2 creatures at a time. This is going to stay useful at level 1 as it is at level 20, so I like the scalability.
Impulsive Infatuation is by far my favorite Channel Divinity ever. It directly scales with your allies power and if you have a Rogue with a Ranged weapon then both the player and the PC are going to LOVE you as they will be able to sneak attack on a reaction.
Protective Bond and Enduring Unity both work together to put a wall of powerful tanky characters directly between you and the thing that would rather you be dead.
Mechanically, I love it. Thematically, things get awkward. The elephant in the room is that you are changing the way other characters consider you or someone else. You are making them have strong emotional attachments to others or yourself. If this sounds a bit shady, it's because it is. Sure it says "Willing Creature" and that saves it from being SUPER awkward, but it's still of a questionable nature. This is doubly true if the PC tends to be more manipulative in nature, so I'd avoid that particular minefield if I were to play this one.
My advice, only play this if your group is doing a Session 0 to plan out their party dynamic and EVERYONE is super ok with it. Because it's gonna get real cringey if the other players don't want to buy into the shifting emotional attachments, jealousy, or strange temporary polyamory shenanigans that come with the direct manipulation of Love.
Edit to replace with the updated Document.
Unity Domain.
Spell list: a bit uninspiring, I'm a fan when domain lists pull from non-cleric spells or they include more niche options like 'Comprehend Languages' so that when it comes up you have a moment of "Oh I have that!". My forge Cleric has that moment with Identify and it's a good feeling.
Emboldening Bond is a limited target Concentration less Bless, there is literally no way that goes wrong.
Channel Divinity: Shared Burden. Wow. That is a really strong CD. The ability to take that uber crit and distribute the damage is bound to come up clutch, especially on a character with access to mass cure wounds and Beacon of Hope. The Unity theme is really on full display here as you can practically feel the other players supporting the one in danger. Great addition.
Protective Bond: This one is a bit of a problem for me. Resistances don't stack and there are a LOT of things that can grant resistance. Perhaps phrasing this as saying 'takes half damage after damage is calculated' so its not a waste when it's a raging barbarian or Cavalier Fighter?
Enduring Unity: The name is a little...weird, but the effect is strong definitely a good use at the high levels when the chances of a melee characters dropping is fairly high.
I have no idea why the Cleric gets Potent Spellcasting. It’s a great ability, but what does it have to do with love??
It certainly makes more sense than hitting them with the Lovehammer while running around in heavy plate.....oh hell now the image is in my mind of a giant heart shaped warhammer.
But between the spell list that heavily favors control type spells and the lack of abilities that require melee contact to function it makes sense that this would be sitting more 'mid-field' and not 'line of scrimmage' (yay calendar appropriate sports-ball references!).
Plus, I feel like this Cleric sits in a bit of the same area as the Life Cleric in some ways, and that one is already a melee focused cleric, so having this as the flip side to that is a nice place for the subclass to sit.
@Guytza Heart shaped hammer? Look up Nora Valkyrie and Magnhilde.
I think the love cleric gets a LITTLE less cringe if you start thinking of other forms of love. got a pair of siblings on your team: philidelphia: sibling love. Maybe there is an older protector on the team: Philoprogenitiveness (Love of a parent for child), Couple of bros: EPIC BROMANCE. Ladies doin' it for themselves: Sisterhood of the traveling buffs.
On the flip side, with that session 0 big disclaimers and checks: don't forget that the Love Aphrodite was a goddess of was seen as a form of madness. Imagining worshiping THAT.
Trance is Super Saiyan Reliable Talent in a can, which is amazing. The duration sucks, but pop this mother before a big, dicey fight and you're (literally) golden. No bad rolls at all, which could be really critical in a save-heavy battle. The Cavalcade thing is visually hilarious and potentially helpful, but pretty nichey. Decent way of nailing mid-level Dispell Magics without actually needing Dispel Magic, I suppose.
You mentioned the duration sucking, it's a full minute AND you can recharge your once-per-day use using 5 SP. So where's the downside? Am I missing something?
C’mon, at least with Divine Strike it could be like a “Cupid’s Bow” kind of situation. Divine Strike says “weapon attack” not “melee” not “weapon-attack” technically you could trigger Divine Strike with a boop on the shnoop.
I get it, and IMHO, I’d rather have Potent Spellcasting, but...
“I shove a lightning bolt up your ass! Ps- You’re in love.”
The downside is that outside of battle it's basically ONE check you get to pop your insurance on, outside unusual circumstances. Which is fine, given that it's ridicu-amazing in fights and rogues need some room for Reliable Talent to breathe, but still.
This bard is an old timey animation bard. Consider: Creates literal musical notes that do things, and float in midair
Can create needed objects from nowhere, this is a concept known as hammerspace
Objects moving around and becoming lively
I immediately thought of Steamboat Willie and then my mind went to replacing performance checks with animal handling while using live animals as musical instruments.
I'm not so keen on the flavor of Love Domain. I feel like as something that should be born of mutual respect, the "love" this domain tries to control is a bit counter to that idea. Not that all the features are bad, but the spell table and impulsive infatuation feel like straight mind control/mind alteration and that's just in bad taste for a love domain.
@Guytza Heart shaped hammer? Look up Nora Valkyrie and Magnhilde.
I think the love cleric gets a LITTLE less cringe if you start thinking of other forms of love. got a pair of siblings on your team: philidelphia: sibling love. Maybe there is an older protector on the team: Philoprogenitiveness (Love of a parent for child), Couple of bros: EPIC BROMANCE. Ladies doin' it for themselves: Sisterhood of the traveling buffs.
On the flip side, with that session 0 big disclaimers and checks: don't forget that the Love Aphrodite was a goddess of was seen as a form of madness. Imagining worshiping THAT.
Oh I agree, there are a lot more ways to do this that are not cringey than there are ways to do it as cringey. Even a bond of mutual respect is good and the abilities themselves are rather vague. But I felt that the potential misuse of the theme was potentially problematic and bringing that right out in the open was a good way to address it.
I think the reason i picked it out so quick is because I'm currently playing a Glamour Bard, and let me tell you that the first time I used the Enthralling Performance on my own team members was downright awkward. Now mind you, they are awesome and played along with the sudden 'you idolize the Bard' in a fantastic way, but you do have to be very careful with abilities that actively manipulate your player characters since it is in some way taking away their autonomy in some fashion and some players will not be ok with that.
Good parts of love domain: The concept of tying other, willing creatures with love and respect for the other Bad parts of love domain: The abilities revolving around charming or seducing people
Edit: Charming or seducing people MAGICALLY, explicitly using magic to influence their minds and take away choice from them
Regarding the Love Domain, I'd like to point out that the introduction emphasizes that there are different kinds of love, not just sexual attraction. So, the first level feature could be considered platonic love. Friendship, in other words.
For the Bard, does the 14th level feature require you to still use an action to maintain the object you create? Because then, you just have a Spiritual Weapon that requires both an action and bonus action to use.
Otherwise, I've got little to say. Most of these subclasses don't seem terribly interesting to me, and I'd rather they had improved the Aberrant Mind Sorcerer than make a whole new subclass (Aberrant Mind is too powerful at the moment). This is why I'm looking forward to more variant class features. I just don't feel that anything other than the Love Domain fills any kind of void in the game.
Regarding the Love Domain, I'd like to point out that the introduction emphasizes that there are different kinds of love, not just sexual attraction. So, the first level feature could be considered platonic love. Friendship, in other words.
It's not that those things aren't true about it, its just the potential for abuse.
Hey everyone! Starting a new thread for convenience and so as not to bog down other threads.
https://media.wizards.com/2020/dnd/downloads/UA2020-Subclasses02.pdf
Credit goes to Relux_the_Relux for finding the document first. :)
What are your thoughts?
Partway through the quest for absolute truth.
Think I'll just transplant my first impressions from the other thread. BECAUSE LAZY REI.
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College of Creation: Edited for the new version
Note of Potential: It really wants to remind you that you can use your Bardic Inspirations for Combat capabilities, The damage is going to fade off in power fairly quickly since it does not add your charisma modifier, the Note of Protection is Temp HP, but can be timed by the user, and the note of inspiration is just a nicer inspiration. The Note of Protection is really the winner here because that D12 AE by the time you can really make use of it is not going to be that great an idea.
Animating Performance: Oh boy! an attack Pet, which can be a valid target for those Bardic Inspirations that cause 1d12 extra damage. No sarcasm here this is a really good playstyle defining combo. In my original review I suggested moving the ability from level 14 to 6, someone must have agreed.
Performance of Creation: This is almost the Illusion Wizards ability that lets them create Illusions into REAL things. While the intended use is to create usuable tools and items I'm more inclined to use it to alter the world around me, such as replacing an open hallway with a 10ft Brick Wall and letting someone looney tunes into it. I'm less happy about the item making glimmering intangible notes and giving off sound though. Limits the usefulness.
All in all, I see this one as an Illusionist focused Bard and as with all such Illusions, your success depends on what your DM will let you get away with. So I would heavily recommend feeling out how they feel about illusions before going this route.
This bard is an old timey animation bard. Consider:
Creates literal musical notes that do things, and float in midair
Can create needed objects from nowhere, this is a concept known as hammerspace
Objects moving around and becoming lively
Love Domain
Everything about this subclass really flows and fits together nicely into a cohesive whole and sits somewhere inbetween the Bard and the Cleric in playstyle.
The spell list feels heavily support Bard Inspired with a lot of Control Spells that the Cleric might not normally enjoy, and as the old MMO saying goes "Damage not done is Damage you dont have to waste time healing".
Emboldening Bond is a very healthy concentration less Bless for 2 creatures at a time. This is going to stay useful at level 1 as it is at level 20, so I like the scalability.
Impulsive Infatuation is by far my favorite Channel Divinity ever. It directly scales with your allies power and if you have a Rogue with a Ranged weapon then both the player and the PC are going to LOVE you as they will be able to sneak attack on a reaction.
Protective Bond and Enduring Unity both work together to put a wall of powerful tanky characters directly between you and the thing that would rather you be dead.
Mechanically, I love it. Thematically, things get awkward. The elephant in the room is that you are changing the way other characters consider you or someone else. You are making them have strong emotional attachments to others or yourself. If this sounds a bit shady, it's because it is. Sure it says "Willing Creature" and that saves it from being SUPER awkward, but it's still of a questionable nature. This is doubly true if the PC tends to be more manipulative in nature, so I'd avoid that particular minefield if I were to play this one.
My advice, only play this if your group is doing a Session 0 to plan out their party dynamic and EVERYONE is super ok with it. Because it's gonna get real cringey if the other players don't want to buy into the shifting emotional attachments, jealousy, or strange temporary polyamory shenanigans that come with the direct manipulation of Love.
Edit to replace with the updated Document.
Unity Domain.
Spell list: a bit uninspiring, I'm a fan when domain lists pull from non-cleric spells or they include more niche options like 'Comprehend Languages' so that when it comes up you have a moment of "Oh I have that!". My forge Cleric has that moment with Identify and it's a good feeling.
Emboldening Bond is a limited target Concentration less Bless, there is literally no way that goes wrong.
Channel Divinity: Shared Burden. Wow. That is a really strong CD. The ability to take that uber crit and distribute the damage is bound to come up clutch, especially on a character with access to mass cure wounds and Beacon of Hope. The Unity theme is really on full display here as you can practically feel the other players supporting the one in danger. Great addition.
Protective Bond: This one is a bit of a problem for me. Resistances don't stack and there are a LOT of things that can grant resistance. Perhaps phrasing this as saying 'takes half damage after damage is calculated' so its not a waste when it's a raging barbarian or Cavalier Fighter?
Enduring Unity: The name is a little...weird, but the effect is strong definitely a good use at the high levels when the chances of a melee characters dropping is fairly high.
The Bard looks fun, and Note of Destruction = The Brown Note!!
I have no idea why the Cleric gets Potent Spellcasting. It’s a great ability, but what does it have to do with love??
I love the Sorcerer. I have no idea how balanced it will be, but it’s effing cool.
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Love Cleric getting Charm Person... worries me
It certainly makes more sense than hitting them with the Lovehammer while running around in heavy plate.....oh hell now the image is in my mind of a giant heart shaped warhammer.
But between the spell list that heavily favors control type spells and the lack of abilities that require melee contact to function it makes sense that this would be sitting more 'mid-field' and not 'line of scrimmage' (yay calendar appropriate sports-ball references!).
Plus, I feel like this Cleric sits in a bit of the same area as the Life Cleric in some ways, and that one is already a melee focused cleric, so having this as the flip side to that is a nice place for the subclass to sit.
@Guytza Heart shaped hammer? Look up Nora Valkyrie and Magnhilde.
I think the love cleric gets a LITTLE less cringe if you start thinking of other forms of love. got a pair of siblings on your team: philidelphia: sibling love. Maybe there is an older protector on the team: Philoprogenitiveness (Love of a parent for child), Couple of bros: EPIC BROMANCE. Ladies doin' it for themselves: Sisterhood of the traveling buffs.
On the flip side, with that session 0 big disclaimers and checks: don't forget that the Love Aphrodite was a goddess of was seen as a form of madness. Imagining worshiping THAT.
You mentioned the duration sucking, it's a full minute AND you can recharge your once-per-day use using 5 SP. So where's the downside? Am I missing something?
C’mon, at least with Divine Strike it could be like a “Cupid’s Bow” kind of situation. Divine Strike says “weapon attack” not “melee” not “weapon-attack” technically you could trigger Divine Strike with a boop on the shnoop.
I get it, and IMHO, I’d rather have Potent Spellcasting, but...
“I shove a lightning bolt up your ass!
Ps- You’re in love.”
🧐
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The downside is that outside of battle it's basically ONE check you get to pop your insurance on, outside unusual circumstances. Which is fine, given that it's ridicu-amazing in fights and rogues need some room for Reliable Talent to breathe, but still.
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I immediately thought of Steamboat Willie and then my mind went to replacing performance checks with animal handling while using live animals as musical instruments.
I'm not so keen on the flavor of Love Domain. I feel like as something that should be born of mutual respect, the "love" this domain tries to control is a bit counter to that idea. Not that all the features are bad, but the spell table and impulsive infatuation feel like straight mind control/mind alteration and that's just in bad taste for a love domain.
Weird when I downloaded the link it was part 1 still
Oh I agree, there are a lot more ways to do this that are not cringey than there are ways to do it as cringey. Even a bond of mutual respect is good and the abilities themselves are rather vague. But I felt that the potential misuse of the theme was potentially problematic and bringing that right out in the open was a good way to address it.
I think the reason i picked it out so quick is because I'm currently playing a Glamour Bard, and let me tell you that the first time I used the Enthralling Performance on my own team members was downright awkward. Now mind you, they are awesome and played along with the sudden 'you idolize the Bard' in a fantastic way, but you do have to be very careful with abilities that actively manipulate your player characters since it is in some way taking away their autonomy in some fashion and some players will not be ok with that.
Good parts of love domain: The concept of tying other, willing creatures with love and respect for the other
Bad parts of love domain: The abilities revolving around charming or seducing people
Edit: Charming or seducing people MAGICALLY, explicitly using magic to influence their minds and take away choice from them
Regarding the Love Domain, I'd like to point out that the introduction emphasizes that there are different kinds of love, not just sexual attraction. So, the first level feature could be considered platonic love. Friendship, in other words.
For the Bard, does the 14th level feature require you to still use an action to maintain the object you create? Because then, you just have a Spiritual Weapon that requires both an action and bonus action to use.
Otherwise, I've got little to say. Most of these subclasses don't seem terribly interesting to me, and I'd rather they had improved the Aberrant Mind Sorcerer than make a whole new subclass (Aberrant Mind is too powerful at the moment). This is why I'm looking forward to more variant class features. I just don't feel that anything other than the Love Domain fills any kind of void in the game.
It's not that those things aren't true about it, its just the potential for abuse.
What is their channel divinity then?