How reasonable is it to start a combat, then stop... and maybe later start again?
Let me explain a bit further. I selected bugbear for my race and rogue for my class. Now at 3rd level I chose Assassin as my archetype or subclass.
What I plan to do, whether inside or outdoors, is scout ahead of the party stealthily and try to get a surprise round to use my Assassinate feature. At 3rd level a crit would be 10d6 damage. If it doesn't finish an enemy then I retreat from the fight back to my allies and report on my scouting mission. My party will move up and we will encounter the enemy again where I might get off another Assassinate.
How likely do you think it is that a DM or party will go along with this tactic?
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Disengaging from combat is always an option and usually given the right circumstances, that can lead to coming out of initiative. Then if your attack your target again, you could possibly get the drop on them.
However two things to keep in mind; firstly they're likely to be on high alert, so may be much harder to surprise. Secondly, give them enough time and they could take a short rest, letting them regain hit points. It's a valid strategy that I could see a DM reasonably allowing, but not without its risks
Is your party going to be happy when your character comes back and says "Oh hi! There was a bunch of bad guys, but I killed them all. Here's their stuff."
Who wants to be in a game where one character takes up most of the DM's time?
It's up to the DM to determine how combat starts/ends. Maybe the DM will, once your combat round starts, begin tracking rounds for the whole party and have the players use tactical movement to get caught up to you. Maybe the DM would run one battle and then stop it and start another one. It's up to the DM.
What I plan to do, whether inside or outdoors, is scout ahead of the party stealthily and try to get a surprise round to use my Assassinate feature.
Hope your party doesn't have a wizard or some other class that can cast Find Familiar, because if they do, odds are they will want the Familiar to scout instead of you. It's less risky, and the Familiar can assume boring animal shapes that will not arouse the suspicion of the enemy like an armor-clad cloak-wearing assassin would. Additionally, whether you get a surprise round is 100% up to the DM.
At 3rd level a crit would be 10d6 damage. If it doesn't finish an enemy then I retreat from the fight back to my allies and report on my scouting mission.
How do you know you will be able to retreat? If 10D6 doesn't finish them off, they're pretty powerful, especially if you are 3rd level. They might just stomp you.
My party will move up and we will encounter the enemy again where I might get off another Assassinate.
It sounds like you are trying to control how the rest of the group plays. This won't work. I would not want to play a game in which I was expected to sit around watching while someone else was doing 10D6 damage vs. 3rd level enemies and wiping whole encounters. The DM will also not welcome it.
How likely do you think it is that a DM or party will go along with this tactic?
Not likely at all.
Why? Because it will make the game boring.
As a DM, I would have to stop it -- so that you did not ruin it for everyone else. I'd have to put you into situations in which sneaking was not possible the majority of the time, which would ruin YOUR fun. Don't put yourself into an either/or position, in which either you can have fun or the other players can have fun but not both. That's bad all around.
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The OP kind of highlights the problem with the assassin subclass. They don’t work very well as part of a team. I understand your desire to pull of your first strike gimmick, it’s what your subclass is built around, but it doesn’t work unless you have a whole stealthy party who can sneak up there with you. That’s a long way to say, maybe consider one of the other subclass options. The rest work much better as a party member, instead of solo.
The OP kind of highlights the problem with the assassin subclass. They don’t work very well as part of a team. I understand your desire to pull of your first strike gimmick, it’s what your subclass is built around, but it doesn’t work unless you have a whole stealthy party who can sneak up there with you. That’s a long way to say, maybe consider one of the other subclass options. The rest work much better as a party member, instead of solo.
I don’t agree. I play it this way - the Assassin can scout ahead and when battle starts the PCs have to be double the dim light distance of their torches when the fight starts (about 80 ft with standard torches).
This way the party is always involved, archers get more play, and the risk of the Assassin getting caught is still there.
I agree though, I wouldn’t just have an assassin play encounters solo and sneak away. If he insisted, he’d likely find himself in a brightly lit room with the doors locked and no escape eventually - and hopefully a lesson learned about relying on your allies.
It's technically a valid tactic, but as BioWizard said, it's rude to the other party and the GM. I have a player I'm honestly considering banning from playing stealth classes because they regularly try to run off on their own to do stuff like this and it creates extra headaches for me and extra boredom for the rest of the party because they're always hogging the spotlight.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
It's technically a valid tactic, but as BioWizard said, it's rude to the other party and the GM. I have a player I'm honestly considering banning from playing stealth classes because they regularly try to run off on their own to do stuff like this and it creates extra headaches for me and extra boredom for the rest of the party because they're always hogging the spotlight.
Also this, from an external POV. It might be worth having a Session 0 again.
How likely do you think it is that a DM or party will go along with this tactic?
Extremely unlikely. At least in the way you are imagining it. Its an incredibly boring time for everyone at the table but you. It also relies on the DM playing the monsters incredibly unrealistically. This doesn't really fall under Rule of Cool, so I don't see many DMs playing along.
Mechanically, if you can escape and enemies don't give chase, initiative would drop and you'd be able to reengage an enemy at a later time - but I am going to highlydoubt the enemies will be surprised the second time around. Creatures don't have skyrim AI, where they forget you exist after a few moments. Your actions have consequences, and when you retreat to go speak with your allies, they are going to act as well.
If anything, this tactic will ruin your chance of surprising anyone else in the dungeon - at least in the immediate vicinity. The survivors know of your presence. They know what you look like. They know which direction you came from. They've gone and informed their friends in the next room. Given time, they will set up an ambush, or lay a trap, or call in reinforcements. Heck, when your party does finally swing through here a second time, its likely that YOU will be the ones who are surprised.
The fun and party synergy aspects of the tactic aside - if the players and the enemy are within a reasonable distance, as soon as you declared the attack, everyone rolls initiative and, provided the enemy are actively looking for you, which they would be, the initiative order remains in place. The other player can decide what they're doing, and the enemy will have their actions. If they hear something happen around the corner, they will investigate it.
So the combat doesn't stop, but it does have some rounds where perhaps nobody does any fighting as you try to sneak off and the enemy tries to find you.
Bear in mind that if you don't kill them outright, their first thing will probably be to hollar for help whilst turning to attack you. You're not going to be able to move up, attack, disengage and move away and still be safe - at minimum they get an opportunity attack as you run away again, and then they will just move towards you and attack. If they do go down, the DM might request a stealth roll from you to see if other hear and see you before you sneak off.
As soon as they know you're creeping away down that corridor, they're coming for you.
Once upon a time, I created a character who did pretty much the same thing. For the first three or four times (maybe two or three times?), it was really cool. The group engaged in it. After that, the group became noticeably more bored of it (to include myself).
I wasn't even the least upset when the DM finally pounded the character into paste. After that, I made a cleric that stuck with the party. So much better when the party plays as a cohesive team. At least, in my view.
Your group may feel completely different. But whatever you do: let them know what you're thinking before you start using this tactic. And expect luke warm to cool reception.
If anything, this tactic will ruin your chance of surprising anyone else in the dungeon - at least in the immediate vicinity. The survivors know of your presence. They know what you look like. They know which direction you came from. They've gone and informed their friends in the next room. Given time, they will set up an ambush, or lay a trap, or call in reinforcements. Heck, when your party does finally swing through here a second time, its likely that YOU will be the ones who are surprised.
This is exactly how I would respond to such a tactic as the DM. Survivors by definition tend to have the desire and skills to remain alive and will continue to do so when you bravely run away for backup. They'll call in their own backup, or retreat to a defensible position, or just hunt you down. Also, as mentioned many times, you're actively trying to do something that makes your character the main star of every encounter that you do this, and even the only active participant if it goes the way you want. So if you really want to play this way you should find a DM that'll run a solo, one on one game for you because other players will not want to play with you if you insist on doing this. Also, if it even works once, the DM will probably quickly adapt to the obvious weaknesses of your "lone wolf" strategy and your character will get smacked around if not straight up squashed because if the DM does indulge you repeatedly then they will be running a one on one solo game because the rest of the group will leave to actually play a game rather than just watch you.
A universal rule to D&D is if anything about your character, mechanically or roleplaying oriented, would ever be described by anyone with the term "lone wolf" then it is a terrible idea and you should absolutely not do it. D&D is a group game, not a solo event. Unless you are the only PC, trying to play it as a solo event is pretty much the only way you can actually play D&D wrong.
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How reasonable is it to start a combat, then stop... and maybe later start again?
Let me explain a bit further. I selected bugbear for my race and rogue for my class. Now at 3rd level I chose Assassin as my archetype or subclass.
What I plan to do, whether inside or outdoors, is scout ahead of the party stealthily and try to get a surprise round to use my Assassinate feature. At 3rd level a crit would be 10d6 damage. If it doesn't finish an enemy then I retreat from the fight back to my allies and report on my scouting mission. My party will move up and we will encounter the enemy again where I might get off another Assassinate.
How likely do you think it is that a DM or party will go along with this tactic?
Disengaging from combat is always an option and usually given the right circumstances, that can lead to coming out of initiative. Then if your attack your target again, you could possibly get the drop on them.
However two things to keep in mind; firstly they're likely to be on high alert, so may be much harder to surprise. Secondly, give them enough time and they could take a short rest, letting them regain hit points. It's a valid strategy that I could see a DM reasonably allowing, but not without its risks
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Is your party going to be happy when your character comes back and says "Oh hi! There was a bunch of bad guys, but I killed them all. Here's their stuff."
Who wants to be in a game where one character takes up most of the DM's time?
Have fun in your games.
<Insert clever signature here>
It's up to the DM to determine how combat starts/ends. Maybe the DM will, once your combat round starts, begin tracking rounds for the whole party and have the players use tactical movement to get caught up to you. Maybe the DM would run one battle and then stop it and start another one. It's up to the DM.
Hope your party doesn't have a wizard or some other class that can cast Find Familiar, because if they do, odds are they will want the Familiar to scout instead of you. It's less risky, and the Familiar can assume boring animal shapes that will not arouse the suspicion of the enemy like an armor-clad cloak-wearing assassin would. Additionally, whether you get a surprise round is 100% up to the DM.
How do you know you will be able to retreat? If 10D6 doesn't finish them off, they're pretty powerful, especially if you are 3rd level. They might just stomp you.
It sounds like you are trying to control how the rest of the group plays. This won't work. I would not want to play a game in which I was expected to sit around watching while someone else was doing 10D6 damage vs. 3rd level enemies and wiping whole encounters. The DM will also not welcome it.
Not likely at all.
Why? Because it will make the game boring.
As a DM, I would have to stop it -- so that you did not ruin it for everyone else. I'd have to put you into situations in which sneaking was not possible the majority of the time, which would ruin YOUR fun. Don't put yourself into an either/or position, in which either you can have fun or the other players can have fun but not both. That's bad all around.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
The OP kind of highlights the problem with the assassin subclass. They don’t work very well as part of a team.
I understand your desire to pull of your first strike gimmick, it’s what your subclass is built around, but it doesn’t work unless you have a whole stealthy party who can sneak up there with you.
That’s a long way to say, maybe consider one of the other subclass options. The rest work much better as a party member, instead of solo.
I don’t agree. I play it this way - the Assassin can scout ahead and when battle starts the PCs have to be double the dim light distance of their torches when the fight starts (about 80 ft with standard torches).
This way the party is always involved, archers get more play, and the risk of the Assassin getting caught is still there.
I agree though, I wouldn’t just have an assassin play encounters solo and sneak away. If he insisted, he’d likely find himself in a brightly lit room with the doors locked and no escape eventually - and hopefully a lesson learned about relying on your allies.
It's technically a valid tactic, but as BioWizard said, it's rude to the other party and the GM. I have a player I'm honestly considering banning from playing stealth classes because they regularly try to run off on their own to do stuff like this and it creates extra headaches for me and extra boredom for the rest of the party because they're always hogging the spotlight.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Also this, from an external POV. It might be worth having a Session 0 again.
Extremely unlikely. At least in the way you are imagining it. Its an incredibly boring time for everyone at the table but you. It also relies on the DM playing the monsters incredibly unrealistically. This doesn't really fall under Rule of Cool, so I don't see many DMs playing along.
Mechanically, if you can escape and enemies don't give chase, initiative would drop and you'd be able to reengage an enemy at a later time - but I am going to highly doubt the enemies will be surprised the second time around. Creatures don't have skyrim AI, where they forget you exist after a few moments. Your actions have consequences, and when you retreat to go speak with your allies, they are going to act as well.
If anything, this tactic will ruin your chance of surprising anyone else in the dungeon - at least in the immediate vicinity. The survivors know of your presence. They know what you look like. They know which direction you came from. They've gone and informed their friends in the next room. Given time, they will set up an ambush, or lay a trap, or call in reinforcements. Heck, when your party does finally swing through here a second time, its likely that YOU will be the ones who are surprised.
The fun and party synergy aspects of the tactic aside - if the players and the enemy are within a reasonable distance, as soon as you declared the attack, everyone rolls initiative and, provided the enemy are actively looking for you, which they would be, the initiative order remains in place. The other player can decide what they're doing, and the enemy will have their actions. If they hear something happen around the corner, they will investigate it.
So the combat doesn't stop, but it does have some rounds where perhaps nobody does any fighting as you try to sneak off and the enemy tries to find you.
Bear in mind that if you don't kill them outright, their first thing will probably be to hollar for help whilst turning to attack you. You're not going to be able to move up, attack, disengage and move away and still be safe - at minimum they get an opportunity attack as you run away again, and then they will just move towards you and attack. If they do go down, the DM might request a stealth roll from you to see if other hear and see you before you sneak off.
As soon as they know you're creeping away down that corridor, they're coming for you.
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Once upon a time, I created a character who did pretty much the same thing. For the first three or four times (maybe two or three times?), it was really cool. The group engaged in it. After that, the group became noticeably more bored of it (to include myself).
I wasn't even the least upset when the DM finally pounded the character into paste. After that, I made a cleric that stuck with the party. So much better when the party plays as a cohesive team. At least, in my view.
Your group may feel completely different. But whatever you do: let them know what you're thinking before you start using this tactic. And expect luke warm to cool reception.
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This is exactly how I would respond to such a tactic as the DM. Survivors by definition tend to have the desire and skills to remain alive and will continue to do so when you bravely run away for backup. They'll call in their own backup, or retreat to a defensible position, or just hunt you down. Also, as mentioned many times, you're actively trying to do something that makes your character the main star of every encounter that you do this, and even the only active participant if it goes the way you want. So if you really want to play this way you should find a DM that'll run a solo, one on one game for you because other players will not want to play with you if you insist on doing this. Also, if it even works once, the DM will probably quickly adapt to the obvious weaknesses of your "lone wolf" strategy and your character will get smacked around if not straight up squashed because if the DM does indulge you repeatedly then they will be running a one on one solo game because the rest of the group will leave to actually play a game rather than just watch you.
A universal rule to D&D is if anything about your character, mechanically or roleplaying oriented, would ever be described by anyone with the term "lone wolf" then it is a terrible idea and you should absolutely not do it. D&D is a group game, not a solo event. Unless you are the only PC, trying to play it as a solo event is pretty much the only way you can actually play D&D wrong.