I recently started playing and somehow have ended up in 2 different games. In one of them, we never do any shopping. On the other, we spend (waste) over an hour at the beginning of each session shopping. I almost never need to buy anything. I get a bit frustrated because it doesn't move the story any, it's just continuous bordom from me. So I guess my question is, is this normal. Do lots of campaigns have lots of shopping, or is that just this particular one?
I recently started playing and somehow have ended up in 2 different games. In one of them, we never do any shopping. On the other, we spend (waste) over an hour at the beginning of each session shopping. I almost never need to buy anything. I get a bit frustrated because it doesn't move the story any, it's just continuous bordom from me. So I guess my question is, is this normal. Do lots of campaigns have lots of shopping, or is that just this particular one?
Depends entirely on what the party wants and how the DM has constrained the story/setting. Unless you're in a context where shopping is unavailable, the decision to shop or not should be player-driven.
Shopping is pretty common, though it's usually a sporadic thing in many campaigns rather than something that happens every session.
If you are not enjoying it and it's a consistent thing, I recommend you bring it up to your group and ask if they can either limit the length of the shopping episodes, summarize what they get, or do it out of session. They might not realize you're bored, and may be happy to adjust things so everyone is having fun.
I would recommend talking to your DM about the problem (one should always go to the DM before going to the general group).
You also have the option of doing your own thing instead of going shopping with the group. Track down leads for the real campaign, go do something class-specific like go talk to priests and help out at a temple or do stealthy rogue things. Anywhere with shops is going to have other things you can do that advance your own character or your parties’ quest. Not quite as good as the rest of the party conforming to how you want to play, but working with your DM to have meaningful side adventures that benefit everyone could be a good compromise position.
I generally gloss over shopping in the games I run, “you can buy any standard, non-magical equipment in the players handbook at book price or sell at half book price” and I’m done on shopping. I only go into more detail if they want something unusual like say plate armour in a tiny fishing village in the middle of nowhere.
I don’t think anyone can say if it’s common or not, but I can say, personally, I’d also find it annoying. When you say shopping, do you mean role playing with people chatting with shopkeepers, or flipping through books and saying out of character, I buy some rope and a candle.
If it’s the former, that may just be it’s an rp-heavy campaign, The latter is, imo, an issue with poor time management, since that kind of thing can be done between sessions.
As others said, bring it up with the group. It could be something they have all agreed that is fun for them, and then you’ll need to decide if that campaign is for you. It could be they don’t realize they are doing it, or that others also don’t like but are unwilling to speak up about.
I would recommend talking to your DM about the problem (one should always go to the DM before going to the general group).
Honestly, that's kind of exactly the opposite advice I would give. I really believe players should try to resolve issues amongst themselves first. DM's are just players at the table with a different role in the game, not some kind of parent or authority figure.
For the OP, I wonder if the shopping is some kind of role playing experience that the other players enjoy? I suggest discussing the issue with them and seeing if there's a way they can pivot a bit more to the plot and still get what they are looking for from the shopping trips. Good luck!
It’s not really all that common that every session begins in a situation that makes shopping possible. Usually most sessions pick up where the last left off which is usually somewhere in the middle of an adventuring day.
Discuss (don’t complain about) the situation with the DM and ask if you can bring it up with the group. If the DM specifically runs their game this way that might not be the right table for you. If the DM is just appeasing the other players because they want to shop, the DM might also be bored and simply address the group for you, or encourage you to bring it to the group’s attention. Find out if this is how the DM runs their table or if it’s a group thing or what. And remember discuss the situation, don’t complain about it. (You don’t want to hurt people’s feelings.)
Shopping is quite rare in my campaign - so when the players finally do get to a well equipped city that does indeed have everything - they gets quite excited about it. During journeys or small villages, I tend to limit the stock held by small traders.
But it entirely depends on the campaign, some handwave literally every purchase of anything, and others run it in detail with RP in every shop. I prefer a balance, where more expensive items require a bit of effort (e.g. the hamlet blacksmith doesn't have shelf upon shelf of armour and blades just lying around waiting for adventurers), but role playing every item would become painful :)
I would recommend talking to your DM about the problem (one should always go to the DM before going to the general group).
Honestly, that's kind of exactly the opposite advice I would give. I really believe players should try to resolve issues amongst themselves first. DM's are just players at the table with a different role in the game, not some kind of parent or authority figure.
For the OP, I wonder if the shopping is some kind of role playing experience that the other players enjoy? I suggest discussing the issue with them and seeing if there's a way they can pivot a bit more to the plot and still get what they are looking for from the shopping trips. Good luck!
A DM is, for better or worse, the authority figure in a campaign - they are the only individual with the ability to manipulate in-game events to curtail problematic behavior, and the only one who can say “hey, I’m going to decree that all shopping is done between sessions.” The DM also needs to be the first to know of potential problems, since it could change how they run their game.
Problems like this, where everyone else wants do to one thing, and a single player disagrees, can only really be solved by the DM - otherwise you run into a situation where majority rule controls and nothing changes (except perhaps adding some drama between players). That’s not to say that there are not groups where you can solve your problems at a player level, but the majority of problems can be more easily and readily solved by the DM.
As a DM in an ongoing campaign, I typically handle shopping inbetween sessions with players, UNLESS there is going to be a significant encounter while shopping. That said, I have had groups of players go on shopping trips to find much needed or rare items and ran random urban encounters the entire time.
Random encounters included interesting/peculiar people, aggressive sales, street urchins, con artists, and gangs among others.
I recently started playing and somehow have ended up in 2 different games. In one of them, we never do any shopping. On the other, we spend (waste) over an hour at the beginning of each session shopping. I almost never need to buy anything. I get a bit frustrated because it doesn't move the story any, it's just continuous bordom from me. So I guess my question is, is this normal. Do lots of campaigns have lots of shopping, or is that just this particular one?
RP'ing a shopping trip is a total waste of valuable gaming time. And as you have seen, it is a sign of a narcissistic player that bogs down a game while they shop for arrows while players like you sit twiddling their thumbs. I have players that want special items, because they have cash they can't possibly spend. I am talking about stuff that has no impact on actual gameplay. No problem, 30 seconds of handwaving, if you are in a city large enough to support specialty shops. Now we move on.
All the delightful interactions with Gilmore in Critical Role would disagree with you. Shopping sprees can be fun, if everyone is having fun with it; likewise they can be a miserable slog. Not every table is the same, and something that might be a problem at OP’s table might be a highlight of another table.
I recently started playing and somehow have ended up in 2 different games. In one of them, we never do any shopping. On the other, we spend (waste) over an hour at the beginning of each session shopping. I almost never need to buy anything. I get a bit frustrated because it doesn't move the story any, it's just continuous bordom from me. So I guess my question is, is this normal. Do lots of campaigns have lots of shopping, or is that just this particular one?
RP'ing a shopping trip is a total waste of valuable gaming time. And as you have seen, it is a sign of a narcissistic player that bogs down a game while they shop for arrows while players like you sit twiddling their thumbs. I have players that want special items, because they have cash they can't possibly spend. I am talking about stuff that has no impact on actual gameplay. No problem, 30 seconds of handwaving, if you are in a city large enough to support specialty shops. Now we move on.
All the delightful interactions with Gilmore in Critical Role would disagree with you. Shopping sprees can be fun, if everyone is having fun with it; likewise they can be a miserable slog. Not every table is the same, and something that might be a problem at OP’s table might be a highlight of another table.
So great. If you have a table of acolytes of CR, have at it. Assuming you have a DM and paid actors as accomplished as they are. Otherwise, you will indeed have at least one person, probably more, bored to tears. Not every player of D&D loves CR.
I never said everyone loves it, or did anything other than show it as an example - I figured it would be more useful to submit an illustration from a commonly known campaign, rather than submit anecdotes from my own experiences.
My point stands; different campaigns and different players see these kinds of experiences differently. That’s why it is important to talk to your DM and try to find something that works for everyone.
I would recommend talking to your DM about the problem (one should always go to the DM before going to the general group).
Honestly, that's kind of exactly the opposite advice I would give. I really believe players should try to resolve issues amongst themselves first. DM's are just players at the table with a different role in the game, not some kind of parent or authority figure.
For the OP, I wonder if the shopping is some kind of role playing experience that the other players enjoy? I suggest discussing the issue with them and seeing if there's a way they can pivot a bit more to the plot and still get what they are looking for from the shopping trips. Good luck!
A DM is, for better or worse, the authority figure in a campaign - they are the only individual with the ability to manipulate in-game events to curtail problematic behavior, and the only one who can say “hey, I’m going to decree that all shopping is done between sessions.” The DM also needs to be the first to know of potential problems, since it could change how they run their game.
Problems like this, where everyone else wants do to one thing, and a single player disagrees, can only really be solved by the DM - otherwise you run into a situation where majority rule controls and nothing changes (except perhaps adding some drama between players). That’s not to say that there are not groups where you can solve your problems at a player level, but the majority of problems can be more easily and readily solved by the DM.
So, just to be clear, I find your opinion to be an interesting philosophical difference, not something I'm shaking my fist at. I'm in no way telling you or your players how to play the game. That said...
I think the DM has the appearance of an authority figure but not the power of one. We use phrases like, "At my table..." and "my table, my rules". Couple this with the fact that often, the DM is the one most invested in the game and often knows the rules the best, and it's easy to see why many people think the DM is in charge.
But I would argue that the DM's role is to adjudicate the rules, run the monsters, help enforce boundaries (along with everyone else), and describe what the players see, hear, and smell. Nowhere in the rules does it say the DM needs to be the sole authority to deal with problem players or act as some kind of gatekeeper between players.
To me, everyone sitting at the table is there for common cause: to have fun. Everyone has to agree to the rules of the table. Everyone has a say in how the game is played. And everyone has the option to walk if the game isn't being played in a way the can deal with. If there's a problem player, then everyone at the table needs to deal with it (preferable by talking it out). If I, as the DM, or anyone else at the table thinks someone needs to go, then we'll put it to a vote. If I don't agree with the vote, then I can either suck it up, or walk. Everybody has that option. The DM often has more leverage, that's the nature of the role, but I don't think that's a reason to believe the DM is more than another player or has some kind of authority at the table.
I like to say that the group at the table has a social contract. We're all there to have fun and help everyone else have fun. As someone sitting at the table, I think it's ok to say that's the kind of table I join. If we don't agree on that social requirement (and some others), then we're all free to go our own way. Thinking of it as "my rule" isn't helpful or accurate because ALL players need to agree to the social contract.
I think breaking the social contract is at the heart of a lot of issues we see, like, "My DM nerfed my PC because he thinks it's OP!" If the DM didn't specify that he can do this at session zero, then he's broken the social contract and the players should be able to discuss the issue and agree on what should be done. The players should be able to say, "Hey DM, we don't believe agree the PC should be nerfed, so it won't." If everyone at the table agrees there is a social contract and that everyone is an equal partner, then the DM should acquiesce. But if everyone believes the DM is in charge, then it makes resolving these issues that much harder.
Anyway, I think I've veered off topic enough! Enjoy your game!
Personally, it would never occur to me to roleplay shopping. I've done it once - it was part of a quest and gave a clue to help resolve a subquest. Generic "I want such and such an item" is done between sessions normally. They can chat about that kind of thing in their own time to make a decision. Then they bring the request to the table in the next session, and we figure out if they need to go anywhere special for it, how much it would cost, how many they could get. The RP goes as far as "I go to Barthen's Provisions in Phandalin and buy..." unless I'm going to use it as a hook to provoke further actions.
Obviously, it depends on the table - if a group enjoys RP'ing it, all power to them. If you don't enjoy it (don't blame you), then all you can do is mention it to the group. Unfortunately, if they all enjoy it, the biggest concesssion you can hope for is probably reducing the frequency.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
In our campaigns, shopping opportunities are available at intervals, due to spending a fair amount of time abroad and away from towns and such. Our DM's (3 of our group are running campaigns for the rest, we are busy lol) handle it a few different ways, as some enjoy RPing their shopkeepers while others prefer the vendors to mostly be "NPC001_Armorer" I usually blend them, with one or 2 interesting shops and keepers, with the rest being generic, boring folks, where prices are in PHB mostly, make a list of what you're selling, total it up and half it for what they will pay for your overburden. Allows rations, ropes, climbing kits and such easier to have dealt with and we can trust one another to properly update our sheets and funds honestly.
Personally, I enjoy shopping sometimes, BUT quickly get bored with it. SO far as "doing something else" well, I'm kind of stuck, since the person I need to contact is wearing his Amusing Gnome Potion Merchant mask at the moment. Usually there's another member who has finished shopping early which works well, as we talk quietly to the side, while we wait for the rest of the party at the city gates or some such. Once the Paladin in our campaign and my Bard started performing on the edge of the market while our other 2 finished shopping. DM gave us Performance checks when they came back, we did ok and ended up getting 30-odd gold for our efforts.
I'd suggest maybe a full table talk, to maybe find a better solution to the daily shopping trips, to see where everyone stands. Each table will be different and if the others all want to do it, you'll need to find a way to amuse yourself while they do. Since this is all you've mentioned, I assume the rest of the game time is enjoyable, so from this, I think maybe a little boredom at the start of the session isn't TOO bad a price. Still worth asking, to see if maybe it could be hurried a little more.
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Talk to your Players.Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
There is minimal role-playing with the shopping. It's like some of the people need things that are not special. Like someone bought rope the other day. Maybe I am just a cranky old dude, but I would just rather spend time playing the actual game part of the game than shopping. Usually, I just go on mute and eat my dinner while this is going on.
Shopping is definitely a part of the game, even if only for rope. That said, it sounds like your DM is being obssesive about it, rather than moving through it quickly.
One of the things I dislike about my game is the DM does not have a standard list, and insists on rolling a percent chance for every magical request. As a wizard, I am likely to want almost any spell, so when I go shopping for scrolls, it is an endless list of do you have X, Do you have Y, do you have Z, rather than just "What do you have available?"
Mention your issue to the DM. Be clear that you are not against any role playing, but you think the amount of time spent doing it is excessive and would like the PLAY time spent doing it be cut short.
Suggest that some it be done out of game. I.e. via email before hand.
I recently started playing and somehow have ended up in 2 different games. In one of them, we never do any shopping. On the other, we spend (waste) over an hour at the beginning of each session shopping. I almost never need to buy anything. I get a bit frustrated because it doesn't move the story any, it's just continuous bordom from me. So I guess my question is, is this normal. Do lots of campaigns have lots of shopping, or is that just this particular one?
Depends entirely on what the party wants and how the DM has constrained the story/setting. Unless you're in a context where shopping is unavailable, the decision to shop or not should be player-driven.
Shopping is pretty common, though it's usually a sporadic thing in many campaigns rather than something that happens every session.
If you are not enjoying it and it's a consistent thing, I recommend you bring it up to your group and ask if they can either limit the length of the shopping episodes, summarize what they get, or do it out of session. They might not realize you're bored, and may be happy to adjust things so everyone is having fun.
I would recommend talking to your DM about the problem (one should always go to the DM before going to the general group).
You also have the option of doing your own thing instead of going shopping with the group. Track down leads for the real campaign, go do something class-specific like go talk to priests and help out at a temple or do stealthy rogue things. Anywhere with shops is going to have other things you can do that advance your own character or your parties’ quest. Not quite as good as the rest of the party conforming to how you want to play, but working with your DM to have meaningful side adventures that benefit everyone could be a good compromise position.
I generally gloss over shopping in the games I run, “you can buy any standard, non-magical equipment in the players handbook at book price or sell at half book price” and I’m done on shopping. I only go into more detail if they want something unusual like say plate armour in a tiny fishing village in the middle of nowhere.
I don’t think anyone can say if it’s common or not, but I can say, personally, I’d also find it annoying.
When you say shopping, do you mean role playing with people chatting with shopkeepers, or flipping through books and saying out of character, I buy some rope and a candle.
If it’s the former, that may just be it’s an rp-heavy campaign, The latter is, imo, an issue with poor time management, since that kind of thing can be done between sessions.
As others said, bring it up with the group. It could be something they have all agreed that is fun for them, and then you’ll need to decide if that campaign is for you. It could be they don’t realize they are doing it, or that others also don’t like but are unwilling to speak up about.
Honestly, that's kind of exactly the opposite advice I would give. I really believe players should try to resolve issues amongst themselves first. DM's are just players at the table with a different role in the game, not some kind of parent or authority figure.
For the OP, I wonder if the shopping is some kind of role playing experience that the other players enjoy? I suggest discussing the issue with them and seeing if there's a way they can pivot a bit more to the plot and still get what they are looking for from the shopping trips. Good luck!
It’s not really all that common that every session begins in a situation that makes shopping possible. Usually most sessions pick up where the last left off which is usually somewhere in the middle of an adventuring day.
Discuss (don’t complain about) the situation with the DM and ask if you can bring it up with the group. If the DM specifically runs their game this way that might not be the right table for you. If the DM is just appeasing the other players because they want to shop, the DM might also be bored and simply address the group for you, or encourage you to bring it to the group’s attention. Find out if this is how the DM runs their table or if it’s a group thing or what. And remember discuss the situation, don’t complain about it. (You don’t want to hurt people’s feelings.)
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Shopping is quite rare in my campaign - so when the players finally do get to a well equipped city that does indeed have everything - they gets quite excited about it. During journeys or small villages, I tend to limit the stock held by small traders.
But it entirely depends on the campaign, some handwave literally every purchase of anything, and others run it in detail with RP in every shop. I prefer a balance, where more expensive items require a bit of effort (e.g. the hamlet blacksmith doesn't have shelf upon shelf of armour and blades just lying around waiting for adventurers), but role playing every item would become painful :)
Is it shopping with role playing or just list of items and prices ?
A DM is, for better or worse, the authority figure in a campaign - they are the only individual with the ability to manipulate in-game events to curtail problematic behavior, and the only one who can say “hey, I’m going to decree that all shopping is done between sessions.” The DM also needs to be the first to know of potential problems, since it could change how they run their game.
Problems like this, where everyone else wants do to one thing, and a single player disagrees, can only really be solved by the DM - otherwise you run into a situation where majority rule controls and nothing changes (except perhaps adding some drama between players). That’s not to say that there are not groups where you can solve your problems at a player level, but the majority of problems can be more easily and readily solved by the DM.
As a DM in an ongoing campaign, I typically handle shopping inbetween sessions with players, UNLESS there is going to be a significant encounter while shopping. That said, I have had groups of players go on shopping trips to find much needed or rare items and ran random urban encounters the entire time.
Random encounters included interesting/peculiar people, aggressive sales, street urchins, con artists, and gangs among others.
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All the delightful interactions with Gilmore in Critical Role would disagree with you. Shopping sprees can be fun, if everyone is having fun with it; likewise they can be a miserable slog. Not every table is the same, and something that might be a problem at OP’s table might be a highlight of another table.
I never said everyone loves it, or did anything other than show it as an example - I figured it would be more useful to submit an illustration from a commonly known campaign, rather than submit anecdotes from my own experiences.
My point stands; different campaigns and different players see these kinds of experiences differently. That’s why it is important to talk to your DM and try to find something that works for everyone.
So, just to be clear, I find your opinion to be an interesting philosophical difference, not something I'm shaking my fist at. I'm in no way telling you or your players how to play the game. That said...
I think the DM has the appearance of an authority figure but not the power of one. We use phrases like, "At my table..." and "my table, my rules". Couple this with the fact that often, the DM is the one most invested in the game and often knows the rules the best, and it's easy to see why many people think the DM is in charge.
But I would argue that the DM's role is to adjudicate the rules, run the monsters, help enforce boundaries (along with everyone else), and describe what the players see, hear, and smell. Nowhere in the rules does it say the DM needs to be the sole authority to deal with problem players or act as some kind of gatekeeper between players.
To me, everyone sitting at the table is there for common cause: to have fun. Everyone has to agree to the rules of the table. Everyone has a say in how the game is played. And everyone has the option to walk if the game isn't being played in a way the can deal with. If there's a problem player, then everyone at the table needs to deal with it (preferable by talking it out). If I, as the DM, or anyone else at the table thinks someone needs to go, then we'll put it to a vote. If I don't agree with the vote, then I can either suck it up, or walk. Everybody has that option. The DM often has more leverage, that's the nature of the role, but I don't think that's a reason to believe the DM is more than another player or has some kind of authority at the table.
I like to say that the group at the table has a social contract. We're all there to have fun and help everyone else have fun. As someone sitting at the table, I think it's ok to say that's the kind of table I join. If we don't agree on that social requirement (and some others), then we're all free to go our own way. Thinking of it as "my rule" isn't helpful or accurate because ALL players need to agree to the social contract.
I think breaking the social contract is at the heart of a lot of issues we see, like, "My DM nerfed my PC because he thinks it's OP!" If the DM didn't specify that he can do this at session zero, then he's broken the social contract and the players should be able to discuss the issue and agree on what should be done. The players should be able to say, "Hey DM, we don't believe agree the PC should be nerfed, so it won't." If everyone at the table agrees there is a social contract and that everyone is an equal partner, then the DM should acquiesce. But if everyone believes the DM is in charge, then it makes resolving these issues that much harder.
Anyway, I think I've veered off topic enough! Enjoy your game!
Personally, it would never occur to me to roleplay shopping. I've done it once - it was part of a quest and gave a clue to help resolve a subquest. Generic "I want such and such an item" is done between sessions normally. They can chat about that kind of thing in their own time to make a decision. Then they bring the request to the table in the next session, and we figure out if they need to go anywhere special for it, how much it would cost, how many they could get. The RP goes as far as "I go to Barthen's Provisions in Phandalin and buy..." unless I'm going to use it as a hook to provoke further actions.
Obviously, it depends on the table - if a group enjoys RP'ing it, all power to them. If you don't enjoy it (don't blame you), then all you can do is mention it to the group. Unfortunately, if they all enjoy it, the biggest concesssion you can hope for is probably reducing the frequency.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
your situation of shopping every episode at the start is in fact very unusual.
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In our campaigns, shopping opportunities are available at intervals, due to spending a fair amount of time abroad and away from towns and such. Our DM's (3 of our group are running campaigns for the rest, we are busy lol) handle it a few different ways, as some enjoy RPing their shopkeepers while others prefer the vendors to mostly be "NPC001_Armorer" I usually blend them, with one or 2 interesting shops and keepers, with the rest being generic, boring folks, where prices are in PHB mostly, make a list of what you're selling, total it up and half it for what they will pay for your overburden. Allows rations, ropes, climbing kits and such easier to have dealt with and we can trust one another to properly update our sheets and funds honestly.
Personally, I enjoy shopping sometimes, BUT quickly get bored with it. SO far as "doing something else" well, I'm kind of stuck, since the person I need to contact is wearing his Amusing Gnome Potion Merchant mask at the moment. Usually there's another member who has finished shopping early which works well, as we talk quietly to the side, while we wait for the rest of the party at the city gates or some such. Once the Paladin in our campaign and my Bard started performing on the edge of the market while our other 2 finished shopping. DM gave us Performance checks when they came back, we did ok and ended up getting 30-odd gold for our efforts.
I'd suggest maybe a full table talk, to maybe find a better solution to the daily shopping trips, to see where everyone stands. Each table will be different and if the others all want to do it, you'll need to find a way to amuse yourself while they do. Since this is all you've mentioned, I assume the rest of the game time is enjoyable, so from this, I think maybe a little boredom at the start of the session isn't TOO bad a price. Still worth asking, to see if maybe it could be hurried a little more.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
There is minimal role-playing with the shopping. It's like some of the people need things that are not special. Like someone bought rope the other day. Maybe I am just a cranky old dude, but I would just rather spend time playing the actual game part of the game than shopping. Usually, I just go on mute and eat my dinner while this is going on.
Shopping is definitely a part of the game, even if only for rope. That said, it sounds like your DM is being obssesive about it, rather than moving through it quickly.
One of the things I dislike about my game is the DM does not have a standard list, and insists on rolling a percent chance for every magical request. As a wizard, I am likely to want almost any spell, so when I go shopping for scrolls, it is an endless list of do you have X, Do you have Y, do you have Z, rather than just "What do you have available?"
Mention your issue to the DM. Be clear that you are not against any role playing, but you think the amount of time spent doing it is excessive and would like the PLAY time spent doing it be cut short.
Suggest that some it be done out of game. I.e. via email before hand.