That is, I guess I am moved by the lore of D&D itself and see the history of the millions of players over the decades as something worth remembering.
I know there are grand, long-term strategies to focusing on the current settings. Most people around 25 years ago remember the role of too many settings played in TSR's hiccups and trip-ups. So, not a huge long term commitment to producing new content but an update and messaging of old content to fit into the 5e and beyond.
Just an idea: one volume that has setting information for Blackmoor, Greyhawk, Mystara, Kara-Tur, Dark Sun, Al-Quadim, Maztika, Rokugan, and Mahasarpa, for example. 30-40 pages each. Would give everyone an interesting variety of worlds and approaches to world-building that might be key in building their own homebrew. Or people can get some of the converted modules that were produced back in the day.
I don't know, just an idea, but I think I just hate to see these worlds, where so many adventurers lived and battled for years, just kind of evaporate into the mists of forgotten realms (heh, see what I did there?)
As someone who finds many of the old settings for DnD really interesting and who loves seeing world lore I'd personally find this fascinating. I miss the days when we were getting lots of alternate worlds to play in with a fair amount of lore on the settings themselves along with related products to support them. With that said, I am not sure how popular or useful this might be. Many DMs want to create their own worlds and I don't know how many of them would pick this up. Those who want a full setting to play in seem likely to wish the book had focused on the 1 or 2 worlds they find really resonate with them to provide more meat.
If you're interested in one of the settings you mention there is a wealth of not terribly expensive information available on DM's Guild. The full campaign setting for Dark Sun is < $10, Kara-Tur is $3.74 during a sale they are having right now. Of course anything related to rules, player options, monsters, etc... is going to be outdated, but you're not going to get those crunchy bits with 30-40 pages devoted to a setting anyway.
I personally think a more successful product might be marketed as a world building guidebook homebrewers would be interested in that also contains copious examples that ultimately build a single world. Something like a 50/50 split between world building advice and the accompanying details supporting it that provide the lore to run one of the classics (or even something totally new that we haven't seen before, though I realize that is not what you're after OP). Maybe it would be possible to support multiple world lore "outlines" in a product like this, accomplishing what Beothul is after while also marketing to home brewers who'd like tips on the subject.
yeah, I hear you. I mostly wanted to see these old places, that used to be popular and well-used, get a kind of rebirth or spit polish for the next decade. All nostalgia really. Not much of a homebrewer myself, but I thought the resource would keep the spirits alive in those settings, give their old fans something new to play with, and provide some ideas for anyone trying to get a different perspective some aspect of their own world. It would keep some of the intense and creative work at TSR in the 80's and 90's alive.
[edit: it would also give WoTC a way to gauge temperature of player interest in these worlds. If any really are fan favorites, it might guide them to give a bit more attention to those places with new adventures and additional source information.]
I could see it work better as a coffee table book than as an actual reference guide for play. It could be a fun read, but I don’t think it could give enough depth to any one setting to let someone use it.
I could see it work better as a coffee table book than as an actual reference guide for play. It could be a fun read, but I don’t think it could give enough depth to any one setting to let someone use it.
Agreed. Just in Mystara alone you could fill a whole (very large) book.
Ok, so my thought was there would be enough content in each setting to give someone a head start in using it for their games. But admittedly, I don't know what's been published in the past. Most of the published content is decades old. If a single (normal sized? approx 250 -280 pages) volume were do-able, I hope there's enough in each for users to create new stories. Maybe 2 volumes, but that starts to get to be a whole different level of time and investment commitment.
The focus might be best on what's actually different in each setting, not just another medieval fantasy setting that has a well-known name and some history in the business.
Goal is not to reproduce everything ever published, but to provide enough to keep the world alive. The alternative is none of these get any love and wither to nothing in time. Practicality probably wins the day and there's not enough interest to justify producing a book (or books, if there's so much important content for one or more settings). But if a coffee table book would do the job, so be it!
Maybe would be better idea to put all these settings and previously produced content under the OGL and let others take the lead in producing new content. That's a whole other can of worms to discuss.
The idea of a yearly update to the lore and events of the 3-5 main published worlds is reasonable. Trying to cover entire histories is not. Each world has its own wiki (I’m fairly sure - FR definitely has) so getting the earlier stuff free is mostly just a matter of spending the time. But getting regular world updates that link into any books, adventures, movies, etc that have come out would be something I would pay for. I’m mostly interested in the FR but if I get other worlds too I can use that and don’t mind (excessively) the expense.
Ok, so my thought was there would be enough content in each setting to give someone a head start in using it for their games. But admittedly, I don't know what's been published in the past. Most of the published content is decades old. If a single (normal sized? approx 250 -280 pages) volume were do-able, I hope there's enough in each for users to create new stories. Maybe 2 volumes, but that starts to get to be a whole different level of time and investment commitment.
Each setting used to get its own boxed set, just to start. Then there were supplemental publications like adventures and gazetteers that would add onto the lore. And some of them were supported for decades. You could probably do 280 pages on each setting.
While I like the idea of maintaining those older settings, 30-40 pages isn't enough to really do much of anything, and keep in mind the amount of art needed/expected in D&D books, and the page count means even fewer words devoted to each setting. And no matter what they choose to include, there will be a group of fans mad that their pet detail was left out.
Beyond that, I don't know that there's much demand for it. The vast majority of current D&D players never interacted with those worlds, and so they don't miss them. It would be a nostalgia product for older gamers (myself included). The most popular setting right now, according to survey results I've read about, is homebrew -- there's not lots of folks clamoring for a 5e Maztica update.
And, I think Wizards has really taken to heart many of the lessons from TSR. One of them being, if you print and support lots of settings, you fragment the player base. So instead of D&D players, you had Council of Wyrms players, Dark Sun Players, FR players, etc. and people who played in one setting weren't buying books for any of the others. The business model wasn't sustainable. Even in this idea, why would I buy a 280-page book to use 30 of them?
That's why I said coffee table book. Treat it less like a game product, and more like a history of D&D shown by the different settings, and that might be interesting to people.
I don’t really know if they have taken those lessons to heart. How many settings have been added in the last 2 years? The reality is that what I, as an FR user, really needs as an update is not pictures but about 1-2 pages covering what has happened in Faerun in the last year. The wiki generally covers a year in less than a page and if I could get a full two pages with a bit of detail about each major region so I can keep my world updated. For all the various settings a yearly gazetteer could probably run 35-50 pages and cost no more than $25. I have enjoyed world jumping over the years so I I don’t have a real problem with getting something that covers most or all but I do get that most folks do have such a problem.
The idea of a yearly update to the lore and events of the 3-5 main published worlds is reasonable. Trying to cover entire histories is not. Each world has its own wiki (I’m fairly sure - FR definitely has) so getting the earlier stuff free is mostly just a matter of spending the time. But getting regular world updates that link into any books, adventures, movies, etc that have come out would be something I would pay for. I’m mostly interested in the FR but if I get other worlds too I can use that and don’t mind (excessively) the expense.
deep down, I think this might be one of the reasons this comes to me as strongly as it does. For some reason, I think about all the games played, hours spent among friends over the decades in basements everywhere; that there are so many stories told in these times and of course the efforts of TSR/WoTC to build engaging worlds to live in. The history of each of these is a big part of this image for me: what did people do given the events of the world and the people (NPCs) that were there to interact with. An ongoing summary of major events, places, and people in the realms would be a good outline for these updated setting documents.
While I like the idea of maintaining those older settings, 30-40 pages isn't enough to really do much of anything,. . . . And no matter what they choose to include, there will be a group of fans mad that their pet detail was left out.
It would be a nostalgia product for older gamers (myself included).
And, I think Wizards has really taken to heart many of the lessons from TSR. One of them being, if you print and support lots of settings, you fragment the player base.
That's why I said coffee table book. Treat it less like a game product, and more like a history of D&D shown by the different settings, and that might be interesting to people.
No doubt business case issues are necessarily paramount for any publisher, and fragmenting and annoying your fan base is hard earned lesson that companies re-learn on a routine basis. Definitely a nostalgia based idea, and unfortunately, human nature is to regard many older properties/franchises, etc and passe, so we often have a preference for something new over something that might seem rehashed or resurrected, even if its has great new ideas and writing in it. As with real estate, we figure its easier to tear down and build new rather than fix up old but formerly grand constructions.
From a gamer point of view (so, not talking about nostalgia, etc, just the utility aspect), I can't say I'd be really excited about a book that charges me for 280 pages when only 35, maybe 70 pages might be of use to me? I think the best way to sell this would be as a guide for Spelljammer (and Planescape? Is that how it works? I have no idea). As someone who owns Spelljammer, an issue I have is that I just don't have setting guides to help with setting up adventures to other worlds. You could sell this book as a guide to that, enough information to help set up an adventure in a Spelljammer campaign.
I'm not sure if that fits within your vision, but I think that, realistically, you'd have to be looking at a coffee table book, or a world-hopping guide.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Right, the business side of the idea would have to be served and if people don't see the value in the whole book they wouldn't buy and so not a good idea in the first place.
Yeah, I'm no Planescape expert either, but I did comment somewhere 6 or 9 months ago that if they were going to develop that PS to its fullest Plane-ness, that would include portals to the other settings TSR/ WoTC had built. One person commented this isn't really the thing about Planescape but I guess I don't see how it must be excluded as well.
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That is, I guess I am moved by the lore of D&D itself and see the history of the millions of players over the decades as something worth remembering.
I know there are grand, long-term strategies to focusing on the current settings. Most people around 25 years ago remember the role of too many settings played in TSR's hiccups and trip-ups. So, not a huge long term commitment to producing new content but an update and messaging of old content to fit into the 5e and beyond.
Just an idea: one volume that has setting information for Blackmoor, Greyhawk, Mystara, Kara-Tur, Dark Sun, Al-Quadim, Maztika, Rokugan, and Mahasarpa, for example. 30-40 pages each. Would give everyone an interesting variety of worlds and approaches to world-building that might be key in building their own homebrew. Or people can get some of the converted modules that were produced back in the day.
I don't know, just an idea, but I think I just hate to see these worlds, where so many adventurers lived and battled for years, just kind of evaporate into the mists of forgotten realms (heh, see what I did there?)
what do you think?
As someone who finds many of the old settings for DnD really interesting and who loves seeing world lore I'd personally find this fascinating. I miss the days when we were getting lots of alternate worlds to play in with a fair amount of lore on the settings themselves along with related products to support them. With that said, I am not sure how popular or useful this might be. Many DMs want to create their own worlds and I don't know how many of them would pick this up. Those who want a full setting to play in seem likely to wish the book had focused on the 1 or 2 worlds they find really resonate with them to provide more meat.
If you're interested in one of the settings you mention there is a wealth of not terribly expensive information available on DM's Guild. The full campaign setting for Dark Sun is < $10, Kara-Tur is $3.74 during a sale they are having right now. Of course anything related to rules, player options, monsters, etc... is going to be outdated, but you're not going to get those crunchy bits with 30-40 pages devoted to a setting anyway.
I personally think a more successful product might be marketed as a world building guidebook homebrewers would be interested in that also contains copious examples that ultimately build a single world. Something like a 50/50 split between world building advice and the accompanying details supporting it that provide the lore to run one of the classics (or even something totally new that we haven't seen before, though I realize that is not what you're after OP). Maybe it would be possible to support multiple world lore "outlines" in a product like this, accomplishing what Beothul is after while also marketing to home brewers who'd like tips on the subject.
I have only ever used settings as a reference or an idea.
Though I could see the attraction.
yeah, I hear you. I mostly wanted to see these old places, that used to be popular and well-used, get a kind of rebirth or spit polish for the next decade. All nostalgia really. Not much of a homebrewer myself, but I thought the resource would keep the spirits alive in those settings, give their old fans something new to play with, and provide some ideas for anyone trying to get a different perspective some aspect of their own world. It would keep some of the intense and creative work at TSR in the 80's and 90's alive.
[edit: it would also give WoTC a way to gauge temperature of player interest in these worlds. If any really are fan favorites, it might guide them to give a bit more attention to those places with new adventures and additional source information.]
I could see it work better as a coffee table book than as an actual reference guide for play. It could be a fun read, but I don’t think it could give enough depth to any one setting to let someone use it.
Agreed. Just in Mystara alone you could fill a whole (very large) book.
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And the Forgotten realms already fills several volumes.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Ok, so my thought was there would be enough content in each setting to give someone a head start in using it for their games. But admittedly, I don't know what's been published in the past. Most of the published content is decades old. If a single (normal sized? approx 250 -280 pages) volume were do-able, I hope there's enough in each for users to create new stories. Maybe 2 volumes, but that starts to get to be a whole different level of time and investment commitment.
The focus might be best on what's actually different in each setting, not just another medieval fantasy setting that has a well-known name and some history in the business.
Goal is not to reproduce everything ever published, but to provide enough to keep the world alive. The alternative is none of these get any love and wither to nothing in time. Practicality probably wins the day and there's not enough interest to justify producing a book (or books, if there's so much important content for one or more settings). But if a coffee table book would do the job, so be it!
Maybe would be better idea to put all these settings and previously produced content under the OGL and let others take the lead in producing new content. That's a whole other can of worms to discuss.
The idea of a yearly update to the lore and events of the 3-5 main published worlds is reasonable. Trying to cover entire histories is not. Each world has its own wiki (I’m fairly sure - FR definitely has) so getting the earlier stuff free is mostly just a matter of spending the time. But getting regular world updates that link into any books, adventures, movies, etc that have come out would be something I would pay for. I’m mostly interested in the FR but if I get other worlds too I can use that and don’t mind (excessively) the expense.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Each setting used to get its own boxed set, just to start. Then there were supplemental publications like adventures and gazetteers that would add onto the lore. And some of them were supported for decades. You could probably do 280 pages on each setting.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
While I like the idea of maintaining those older settings, 30-40 pages isn't enough to really do much of anything, and keep in mind the amount of art needed/expected in D&D books, and the page count means even fewer words devoted to each setting. And no matter what they choose to include, there will be a group of fans mad that their pet detail was left out.
Beyond that, I don't know that there's much demand for it. The vast majority of current D&D players never interacted with those worlds, and so they don't miss them. It would be a nostalgia product for older gamers (myself included). The most popular setting right now, according to survey results I've read about, is homebrew -- there's not lots of folks clamoring for a 5e Maztica update.
And, I think Wizards has really taken to heart many of the lessons from TSR. One of them being, if you print and support lots of settings, you fragment the player base. So instead of D&D players, you had Council of Wyrms players, Dark Sun Players, FR players, etc. and people who played in one setting weren't buying books for any of the others. The business model wasn't sustainable. Even in this idea, why would I buy a 280-page book to use 30 of them?
That's why I said coffee table book. Treat it less like a game product, and more like a history of D&D shown by the different settings, and that might be interesting to people.
I don’t really know if they have taken those lessons to heart. How many settings have been added in the last 2 years? The reality is that what I, as an FR user, really needs as an update is not pictures but about 1-2 pages covering what has happened in Faerun in the last year. The wiki generally covers a year in less than a page and if I could get a full two pages with a bit of detail about each major region so I can keep my world updated. For all the various settings a yearly gazetteer could probably run 35-50 pages and cost no more than $25. I have enjoyed world jumping over the years so I I don’t have a real problem with getting something that covers most or all but I do get that most folks do have such a problem.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
deep down, I think this might be one of the reasons this comes to me as strongly as it does. For some reason, I think about all the games played, hours spent among friends over the decades in basements everywhere; that there are so many stories told in these times and of course the efforts of TSR/WoTC to build engaging worlds to live in. The history of each of these is a big part of this image for me: what did people do given the events of the world and the people (NPCs) that were there to interact with. An ongoing summary of major events, places, and people in the realms would be a good outline for these updated setting documents.
No doubt business case issues are necessarily paramount for any publisher, and fragmenting and annoying your fan base is hard earned lesson that companies re-learn on a routine basis. Definitely a nostalgia based idea, and unfortunately, human nature is to regard many older properties/franchises, etc and passe, so we often have a preference for something new over something that might seem rehashed or resurrected, even if its has great new ideas and writing in it. As with real estate, we figure its easier to tear down and build new rather than fix up old but formerly grand constructions.
From a gamer point of view (so, not talking about nostalgia, etc, just the utility aspect), I can't say I'd be really excited about a book that charges me for 280 pages when only 35, maybe 70 pages might be of use to me? I think the best way to sell this would be as a guide for Spelljammer (and Planescape? Is that how it works? I have no idea). As someone who owns Spelljammer, an issue I have is that I just don't have setting guides to help with setting up adventures to other worlds. You could sell this book as a guide to that, enough information to help set up an adventure in a Spelljammer campaign.
I'm not sure if that fits within your vision, but I think that, realistically, you'd have to be looking at a coffee table book, or a world-hopping guide.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Right, the business side of the idea would have to be served and if people don't see the value in the whole book they wouldn't buy and so not a good idea in the first place.
Yeah, I'm no Planescape expert either, but I did comment somewhere 6 or 9 months ago that if they were going to develop that PS to its fullest Plane-ness, that would include portals to the other settings TSR/ WoTC had built. One person commented this isn't really the thing about Planescape but I guess I don't see how it must be excluded as well.