Can you let us know how we can bring our current 5e classes into the 2024 DND world if the Subclass wasn't chosen for the new Player's Handbook? Also, will this type of conversion be active on the DNDBeyond Character Creator?
I word on what’s happening with this site yet but they’ve said before that the new PHB will have details on updating older subclasses to fit with the new classes. To be honest it’s probable only going to be the ones that used to get features at first and second levels that’ll need adapting, the rest should slot in easily
The Shepard Druid will be broken - not in an overpowered way, but in a "Subclass features no longer function, and those that do are lesser than before" way. Treantmonk has a video about trying to update it for the new rules, but that will require DM approval, and a homebrew on Beyond in order to work.
Other subclasses might need a little bit of tweaking in order to feel relevant. Any 2014 Rogue subclass will be missing the additional Cunning Strike option that seems standard for 2024 subclasses, for example.
I dont see too much of a problem with the shepperd druid.
But even then, most subclasses just need to use the 2024 core class, and the features will mostly be given as is in the levels they get them, starting at 3rd. The edge cases talked with a DM so you agree on things that dont work as intended.
I dont see too much of a problem with the shepperd druid.
But even then, most subclasses just need to use the 2024 core class, and the features will mostly be given as is in the levels they get them, starting at 3rd. The edge cases talked with a DM so you agree on things that dont work as intended.
Well, the 6th level Mighty Summoner feature no longer functions. Bonus HP per die, when applied to something without hit dice equals zero - and Magic Weapon damage will no longer be a thing, so both features gained at 6th level are either mathematically defunct or irrelevant.
The 14th level Faithful Summons feature now uses a spell which doesn't work in that fashion anymore, and the other features are likely calibrated towards the fact that summoning multiple creatures was a possibility - and that is no longer the case.
In my opinion we need to read the PHB first to get the best idea on how to update.
I can't argue with that.
There are a few things that we do know, however. Many cleric subclasses have had subclass features baked into the base class, and as such will be missing subclass features at certain levels. Most Sorcerer and Warlock subclasses are getting one notable change - subclass spells are no longer merely being added to the list of spells that can be chosen, but will be automatically known at the appropriate levels, although some exceptions do exist, such as the new Wild Magic Sorcerer. Druids all seem to have a subclass specific option for Wild Shape, Rogues all seem to have a subclass specific option for Cunning Strike, Paladins for Aura of Protection, Clerics for Channel Divinity, and so on. Subclasses that don't have an obvious option to put in there would need to be addressed - but as you say, it's best to read the new book, and maybe (OK, probably) play with the new rules before trying to modify them in order to get things right - or let the player who wants to use an older option know that since it's trying to adjust into a modified system, that things may very well change between sessions as the DM may need to calibrate for game balance (this works both ways - being underpowered isn't much fun either). And it might be best to try things out under the new system even for classes that have obvious fixes (say, Shadow Sorcerers and Fathomless/Genie Warlocks simply adding the new spells to their lists) in case some of the other bits have shifted in ways not anticipated.
I dont see too much of a problem with the shepperd druid.
But even then, most subclasses just need to use the 2024 core class, and the features will mostly be given as is in the levels they get them, starting at 3rd. The edge cases talked with a DM so you agree on things that dont work as intended.
Well, the 6th level Mighty Summoner feature no longer functions. Bonus HP per die, when applied to something without hit dice equals zero - and Magic Weapon damage will no longer be a thing, so both features gained at 6th level are either mathematically defunct or irrelevant.
The 14th level Faithful Summons feature now uses a spell which doesn't work in that fashion anymore, and the other features are likely calibrated towards the fact that summoning multiple creatures was a possibility - and that is no longer the case.
I don’t think that “magic weapon” damage will be obsolete. Yes, class features that made your attacks count as “magical” have largely been replaced by being able to choose other damage types (usually force or radiant, so actually a really easy fix for similar features in older subclasses), but there are examples of monster stat blocks from recent source books that still have resistance to B/P/S damage from nonmagical attacks (e.g. the various Colossi and Scions in Bigby Presents). These remain relevant in the 2024 rules (“backwards compatibility”). We haven’t yet seen any stat blocks from the new Monster Manual, nor any examples of magic weapons from the new DMG.
I dont see too much of a problem with the shepperd druid.
But even then, most subclasses just need to use the 2024 core class, and the features will mostly be given as is in the levels they get them, starting at 3rd. The edge cases talked with a DM so you agree on things that dont work as intended.
Well, the 6th level Mighty Summoner feature no longer functions. Bonus HP per die, when applied to something without hit dice equals zero - and Magic Weapon damage will no longer be a thing, so both features gained at 6th level are either mathematically defunct or irrelevant.
The 14th level Faithful Summons feature now uses a spell which doesn't work in that fashion anymore, and the other features are likely calibrated towards the fact that summoning multiple creatures was a possibility - and that is no longer the case.
My take:
- Change Bonus HP per die, as per level, i don't think is too much of a stretch. - Magic weapon dmg -> every other class/subclass in the UA used force dmg or other in similar features. - 14th... true, still can function as the spell does exists somehow, it just works differently. Or use the Summon Animal version upcasted (or anything in between, even summoning more creatures).
My point is that the subclass may be broken, but the "changes" you need to make a quick adaptation are not that far to get to keep the subclass as close to what it was. But that is a "broken" one, most don't even need tinkering to apply, unless you want to (extra cunning actions or channel divinity or wild shape uses, those arent necessary as the main class has uses for those). Extra spells for subclasses that didnd had them in sorc/warlock, wizards new savant feature is better, etc... are easy to see and probable has a guideline in the PHB.
Obviously, it would be better when in a couple of years we get a complement book with most of the missing subclasses (and new ones!).
Can you let us know how we can bring our current 5e classes into the 2024 DND world if the Subclass wasn't chosen for the new Player's Handbook? Also, will this type of conversion be active on the DNDBeyond Character Creator?
Thank you.
Hm... the Dnd Beyond team should answer this, but the Homebrew tools are easy to use to create subclasses, so adapting the old subclasses to the new chassis should be almost as simple as copy/pasting (there are options for special actions/features but its part of the toolset). I have used them before for things that aren't part of the website, for our campaings.
Well, shoot. According to Mike Shae at Sly Flourish, the only instructions in the Players Handbook for converting old material is on Backgrounds and Species. No spells, and no Subclasses. His review here: https://youtu.be/7hfpwpQDQlw?feature=shared
Well, shoot. According to Mike Shae at Sly Flourish, the only instructions in the Players Handbook for converting old material is on Backgrounds and Species. No spells, and no Subclasses. His review here: https://youtu.be/7hfpwpQDQlw?feature=shared
Super not cool WOTC.
Maybe Mike is misinformed because we have a whole thread of guidance by Sillvva, with chapter citations for pretty much any conversion questions here.
Yeah, I read Sillvva's post. It doesn't really address issues where they have amped up the subclasses' abilities that are included in the 2024 PHB, but don't offer ways to amp up the other old subclasses' abilities. I mean, yeah, I guess you can still play old subclasses, but you're at an extreme disadvantage.
Subclasses: (Chapter 3)
All classes at level 3 have “A subclass is a specialization that grants you features at certain [CLASS] levels. For the rest of your career, you gain each of your subclass’s features that are of your [CLASS] level or lower.”
Cleric Blessed Strikes: “You gain one of the following options of your choice (if you get either option from a Cleric subclass in an older book, use only the option you choose for this feature).”
This is all we get on Subclasses.
Also, there are questions on how we can utilize the character creator on dndbeyond and if it will make the necessary changes if we choose older subclasses, or if we have to homebrew them...
Nevermind. I think we are discussing two different things.
I am resigned that I will have to homebrew updated changes to subclasses that aren't lucky enough to be in the 2024 player's guide so that my players don't feel overpowered by the others in the group.
From the start, it was stated that this version was "compatible" with all 5e Material. I guess technically it is, but it leaves the 2014 material in the dust.
My best bet is to hope that they release 2024 versions of the Twilight Cleric and other missing subclasses so players of these subclasses can feel the love.
I mean, the power gap exists but it's hardly so substantial that you can't have a full 2014 character in a 2024 party, unless the entire campaign is designed to account for the group aggressively powergaming. I wouldn't be concerned over running a wholly 2014 character in a 2024 campaign. This isn't an MMO raid where you're no good to the group if you're not maintaining the mandated DPS threshold.
Yeah, I read Sillvva's post. It doesn't really address issues where they have amped up the subclasses' abilities that are included in the 2024 PHB, but don't offer ways to amp up the other old subclasses' abilities. I mean, yeah, I guess you can still play old subclasses, but you're at an extreme disadvantage.
Subclasses: (Chapter 3)
All classes at level 3 have “A subclass is a specialization that grants you features at certain [CLASS] levels. For the rest of your career, you gain each of your subclass’s features that are of your [CLASS] level or lower.”
Cleric Blessed Strikes: “You gain one of the following options of your choice (if you get either option from a Cleric subclass in an older book, use only the option you choose for this feature).”
This is all we get on Subclasses.
Also, there are questions on how we can utilize the character creator on dndbeyond and if it will make the necessary changes if we choose older subclasses, or if we have to homebrew them...
The level of disadvantage is going to be based on the exact subclass and willingness of the DM to make/allow changes. Cleric subclasses, depending on exactly which ones, will be anywhere from mildly inconvenienced (Twilight Cleric) to having half the subclass features effectively removed because the base class now does most if them (Forge Cleric). Some other classes (Rogue) will certainly feel left behind by the changes, as each new subclass gives an option for a class feature that didn't exist when the old ones were written. Sorcerer subclasses look like an easy fix - move the lvl one features to lvl three, change the bonus spell list into spells known rather than spell that can be learned, and most should be good to go - this also should hold for Warlocks, although the Hexblade loses out due to core features being rolled into the base class - although you could treat this as them effectively having Pact of the Blade for free, so replace with a bonus invocation or a background feat. The Shepard Druid is hosed - the changes to the summoning spells render a lot of their subclass features non-functional or sharply reduced in ability. Other Druids probably will be OK, maybe lower on the power level ranking than before, but they are still primary spellcasters. Wizards will of course, be just fine, they are still wizards.
Nevermind. I think we are discussing two different things.
I am resigned that I will have to homebrew updated changes to subclasses that aren't lucky enough to be in the 2024 player's guide so that my players don't feel overpowered by the others in the group.
From the start, it was stated that this version was "compatible" with all 5e Material. I guess technically it is, but it leaves the 2014 material in the dust.
My best bet is to hope that they release 2024 versions of the Twilight Cleric and other missing subclasses so players of these subclasses can feel the love.
Considering over the years power creep in subclasses has been a thing (not in all cases but in many) I don’t think there will be wildly different power levels playing most pre-2024 subclasses that are not in the new PHB. Especially with the core class boosts most have received.
And homebrew tools are a thing if you feel a subclass needs a boost.
Can you let us know how we can bring our current 5e classes into the 2024 DND world if the Subclass wasn't chosen for the new Player's Handbook? Also, will this type of conversion be active on the DNDBeyond Character Creator?
Thank you.
I would imagine two scenarios: 1) they have some software that allows you to upload your character to the 2024 format nice and neatly. 2) you have manually enter your character's information.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Can you let us know how we can bring our current 5e classes into the 2024 DND world if the Subclass wasn't chosen for the new Player's Handbook?
Also, will this type of conversion be active on the DNDBeyond Character Creator?
Thank you.
I word on what’s happening with this site yet but they’ve said before that the new PHB will have details on updating older subclasses to fit with the new classes. To be honest it’s probable only going to be the ones that used to get features at first and second levels that’ll need adapting, the rest should slot in easily
The Shepard Druid will be broken - not in an overpowered way, but in a "Subclass features no longer function, and those that do are lesser than before" way. Treantmonk has a video about trying to update it for the new rules, but that will require DM approval, and a homebrew on Beyond in order to work.
Other subclasses might need a little bit of tweaking in order to feel relevant. Any 2014 Rogue subclass will be missing the additional Cunning Strike option that seems standard for 2024 subclasses, for example.
In my opinion we need to read the PHB first to get the best idea on how to update.
I dont see too much of a problem with the shepperd druid.
But even then, most subclasses just need to use the 2024 core class, and the features will mostly be given as is in the levels they get them, starting at 3rd. The edge cases talked with a DM so you agree on things that dont work as intended.
Well, the 6th level Mighty Summoner feature no longer functions. Bonus HP per die, when applied to something without hit dice equals zero - and Magic Weapon damage will no longer be a thing, so both features gained at 6th level are either mathematically defunct or irrelevant.
The 14th level Faithful Summons feature now uses a spell which doesn't work in that fashion anymore, and the other features are likely calibrated towards the fact that summoning multiple creatures was a possibility - and that is no longer the case.
Also now every subclass in druid has a unique take on wild shape
I can't argue with that.
There are a few things that we do know, however. Many cleric subclasses have had subclass features baked into the base class, and as such will be missing subclass features at certain levels. Most Sorcerer and Warlock subclasses are getting one notable change - subclass spells are no longer merely being added to the list of spells that can be chosen, but will be automatically known at the appropriate levels, although some exceptions do exist, such as the new Wild Magic Sorcerer. Druids all seem to have a subclass specific option for Wild Shape, Rogues all seem to have a subclass specific option for Cunning Strike, Paladins for Aura of Protection, Clerics for Channel Divinity, and so on. Subclasses that don't have an obvious option to put in there would need to be addressed - but as you say, it's best to read the new book, and maybe (OK, probably) play with the new rules before trying to modify them in order to get things right - or let the player who wants to use an older option know that since it's trying to adjust into a modified system, that things may very well change between sessions as the DM may need to calibrate for game balance (this works both ways - being underpowered isn't much fun either). And it might be best to try things out under the new system even for classes that have obvious fixes (say, Shadow Sorcerers and Fathomless/Genie Warlocks simply adding the new spells to their lists) in case some of the other bits have shifted in ways not anticipated.
I don’t think that “magic weapon” damage will be obsolete. Yes, class features that made your attacks count as “magical” have largely been replaced by being able to choose other damage types (usually force or radiant, so actually a really easy fix for similar features in older subclasses), but there are examples of monster stat blocks from recent source books that still have resistance to B/P/S damage from nonmagical attacks (e.g. the various Colossi and Scions in Bigby Presents). These remain relevant in the 2024 rules (“backwards compatibility”). We haven’t yet seen any stat blocks from the new Monster Manual, nor any examples of magic weapons from the new DMG.
My take:
- Change Bonus HP per die, as per level, i don't think is too much of a stretch.
- Magic weapon dmg -> every other class/subclass in the UA used force dmg or other in similar features.
- 14th... true, still can function as the spell does exists somehow, it just works differently. Or use the Summon Animal version upcasted (or anything in between, even summoning more creatures).
My point is that the subclass may be broken, but the "changes" you need to make a quick adaptation are not that far to get to keep the subclass as close to what it was. But that is a "broken" one, most don't even need tinkering to apply, unless you want to (extra cunning actions or channel divinity or wild shape uses, those arent necessary as the main class has uses for those). Extra spells for subclasses that didnd had them in sorc/warlock, wizards new savant feature is better, etc... are easy to see and probable has a guideline in the PHB.
Obviously, it would be better when in a couple of years we get a complement book with most of the missing subclasses (and new ones!).
Hm... the Dnd Beyond team should answer this, but the Homebrew tools are easy to use to create subclasses, so adapting the old subclasses to the new chassis should be almost as simple as copy/pasting (there are options for special actions/features but its part of the toolset). I have used them before for things that aren't part of the website, for our campaings.
Well, shoot. According to Mike Shae at Sly Flourish, the only instructions in the Players Handbook for converting old material is on Backgrounds and Species. No spells, and no Subclasses. His review here: https://youtu.be/7hfpwpQDQlw?feature=shared
Super not cool WOTC.
Maybe Mike is misinformed because we have a whole thread of guidance by Sillvva, with chapter citations for pretty much any conversion questions here.
DM mostly, Player occasionally | Session 0 form | He/Him/They/Them
EXTENDED SIGNATURE!
Doctor/Published Scholar/Science and Healthcare Advocate/Critter/Trekkie/Gandalf with a Glock
Try DDB free: Free Rules (2024), premade PCs, adventures, one shots, encounters, SC, homebrew, more
Answers: physical books, purchases, and subbing.
Check out my life-changing
Yeah, I read Sillvva's post. It doesn't really address issues where they have amped up the subclasses' abilities that are included in the 2024 PHB, but don't offer ways to amp up the other old subclasses' abilities. I mean, yeah, I guess you can still play old subclasses, but you're at an extreme disadvantage.
This is all we get on Subclasses.
Also, there are questions on how we can utilize the character creator on dndbeyond and if it will make the necessary changes if we choose older subclasses, or if we have to homebrew them...
Nevermind. I think we are discussing two different things.
I am resigned that I will have to homebrew updated changes to subclasses that aren't lucky enough to be in the 2024 player's guide so that my players don't feel overpowered by the others in the group.
From the start, it was stated that this version was "compatible" with all 5e Material. I guess technically it is, but it leaves the 2014 material in the dust.
My best bet is to hope that they release 2024 versions of the Twilight Cleric and other missing subclasses so players of these subclasses can feel the love.
I mean, the power gap exists but it's hardly so substantial that you can't have a full 2014 character in a 2024 party, unless the entire campaign is designed to account for the group aggressively powergaming. I wouldn't be concerned over running a wholly 2014 character in a 2024 campaign. This isn't an MMO raid where you're no good to the group if you're not maintaining the mandated DPS threshold.
The level of disadvantage is going to be based on the exact subclass and willingness of the DM to make/allow changes. Cleric subclasses, depending on exactly which ones, will be anywhere from mildly inconvenienced (Twilight Cleric) to having half the subclass features effectively removed because the base class now does most if them (Forge Cleric). Some other classes (Rogue) will certainly feel left behind by the changes, as each new subclass gives an option for a class feature that didn't exist when the old ones were written. Sorcerer subclasses look like an easy fix - move the lvl one features to lvl three, change the bonus spell list into spells known rather than spell that can be learned, and most should be good to go - this also should hold for Warlocks, although the Hexblade loses out due to core features being rolled into the base class - although you could treat this as them effectively having Pact of the Blade for free, so replace with a bonus invocation or a background feat. The Shepard Druid is hosed - the changes to the summoning spells render a lot of their subclass features non-functional or sharply reduced in ability. Other Druids probably will be OK, maybe lower on the power level ranking than before, but they are still primary spellcasters. Wizards will of course, be just fine, they are still wizards.
Considering over the years power creep in subclasses has been a thing (not in all cases but in many) I don’t think there will be wildly different power levels playing most pre-2024 subclasses that are not in the new PHB. Especially with the core class boosts most have received.
And homebrew tools are a thing if you feel a subclass needs a boost.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
I would imagine two scenarios: 1) they have some software that allows you to upload your character to the 2024 format nice and neatly. 2) you have manually enter your character's information.