Can the spell False Life be recast as soon as the temporary hp granted by it are used up, or does the Caster have to wait until after the spell's hour duration has passed to gain any benefit from it again?
Temp hitpoints do not stack. You can cast it unlimited times in a row, but only the highest works. This mainly happens with the warlock ability to cast it for free.
Temp hitpoints do not stack. You can cast it unlimited times in a row, but only the highest works. This mainly happens with the warlock ability to cast it for free.
They mean when you lose the temp hp from taking damage.
Right, can't stack, but the poster is asking if it can be cast again on someone as someone's pool of temp hp is depleted, or do they have to wait till the end of the spell's stated duration (one hour).
I'd say judgment call. If you say yea, as Mog_Dracov pointed out, you have the Warlock as permabuffer. If you want to be more hardcore and lethal in your game, saying the buff just doesn't stick until the duration passes I think would be a fair interpretation of the rules, but make sure the players know that's how you'll rule so they'll handle their temp HP accordingly.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Temp hitpoints do not stack. You can cast it unlimited times in a row, but only the highest works. This mainly happens with the warlock ability to cast it for free.
They mean when you lose the temp hp from taking damage.
That is irrelevant. If a PC has more than one instance of Temp HP applied to them at the same time, only the highest version will count.
If a PC casts False Life on themselves and gains 5 THP, and then the very next turn casts it again and gains 7 THP, then that PC will have 7 THP. It does not matter if they lost any of the original 5 THP or not, the 7 is higher, so that’s the one that counts.
If a PC casts False Life on themselves and gains 7 THP, and then the very next turn casts it again and only gain 5 THP, then as long as they had not lost any of the original 7, that PC will have 7 THP.
If a PC casts False Life on themselves and gains 7 THP, and then take 1 point of damage reducing the number of THP to 6, and then the very next turn casts it again and only gain 5 THP, then they will still have 6 THP since it is still the higher value.
Does a spell with a fixed duration remain in effect after the benefits of that spell have expired?
Using the False Life example, once the temporary hp are used up, if that ends the spell, then Combining Magical Effects doesn't apply to future castings of the spell, BUT if the spell remains in effect for the full hour even after the THP are all used up, Combining Magical Effects does apply.
Does a spell with a fixed duration remain in effect after the benefits of that spell have expired?
Using the False Life example, once the temporary hp are used up, if that ends the spell, then Combining Magical Effects doesn't apply to future castings of the spell, BUT if the spell remains in effect for the full hour even after the THP are all used up, Combining Magical Effects does apply.
What you’re failing to realize is that the general “Combining Magical Effects” rules are not the ones that matter in this particular case. The specific rules governing THP are what matters. Those rules govern THP no matter how many different effects are going on:
Some spells and special abilities confer temporary hit points to a creature. Temporary hit points aren't actual hit points; they are a buffer against damage, a pool of hit points that protect you from injury.
When you have temporary hit points and take damage, the temporary hit points are lost first, and any leftover damage carries over to your normal hit points. For example, if you have 5 temporary hit points and take 7 damage, you lose the temporary hit points and then take 2 damage.
Because temporary hit points are separate from your actual hit points, they can exceed your hit point maximum. A character can, therefore, be at full hit points and receive temporary hit points.
Healing can't restore temporary hit points, and they can't be added together. If you have temporary hit points and receive more of them, you decide whether to keep the ones you have or to gain the new ones. For example, if a spell grants you 12 temporary hit points when you already have 10, you can have 12 or 10, not 22.
If you have 0 hit points, receiving temporary hit points doesn't restore you to consciousness or stabilize you. They can still absorb damage directed at you while you're in that state, but only true healing can save you. Unless a feature that grants you temporary hit points has a duration, they last until they're depleted or you finish a long rest.
I think I picked a bad example. This is not a question about the temporary hp.
It's a question of whether Combining magical effects applies.
Other examples
Shillelagh and Produce Flame specify that the spell ends, (and can therefore be recast with no conflict) under certain conditions. Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound with a duration of 8 hours, specifies the conditions under which the hound effect ends, not when the spell ends, meaning IF Combining Magical Effects applies, the same spell cast in the same place before the original Castings duration has been fulfilled would prevent the hound from being resummoned.
The same question could apply to Mage Armor. If a spell or effect causes the base AC to change, does the character need to spend an action to end the original casting of the spell before they can recast it with effect?
I think I picked a bad example. This is not a question about the temporary hp.
It's a question of whether Combining magical effects applies.
Other examples
Shillelagh and Produce Flame specify that the spell ends, (and can therefore be recast with no conflict) under certain conditions. Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound with a duration of 8 hours, specifies the conditions under which the hound effect ends, not when the spell ends, meaning IF Combining Magical Effects applies, the same spell cast in the same place before the original Castings duration has been fulfilled would prevent the hound from being resummoned.
The same question could apply to Mage Armor. If a spell or effect causes the base AC to change, does the character need to spend an action to end the original casting of the spell before they can recast it with effect?
You can’t normally dismiss a spell that you cast unless (a) its description says you can or (b) it requires concentration and you decide to end your concentration on it. Otherwise, a spell’s magic is unleashed on the environment, and if you want to end it, you need to cast dispel magic on it. But at the same time, just like Temporary HP, the more powerful effect takes place. So if a new spell is cast that changes your AC to a higher AC than mage Armor would, then this new effect would overwrite Mage Armor. The same could be considered for False Life, since your Temporary HP has been used up, casting any false Life spell again is automatically more powerful(more temp HP) than the one currently on you, and therefore overwrites it.
So you're saying the spell remains in effect even if the effects of the spell are no longer in effect?
So you're saying the spell remains in effect even if the effects of the spell are no longer in effect?
Yes, because outside Dispel Magic or somesuch, the spell is still there even though the temp HP are used up. If you rolled an 8, the only way to get more would be to cast it at a higher level. Then the higher level spell would take effect.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
I think I picked a bad example. This is not a question about the temporary hp.
It's a question of whether Combining magical effects applies.
Other examples
Shillelagh and Produce Flame specify that the spell ends, (and can therefore be recast with no conflict) under certain conditions. Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound with a duration of 8 hours, specifies the conditions under which the hound effect ends, not when the spell ends, meaning IF Combining Magical Effects applies, the same spell cast in the same place before the original Castings duration has been fulfilled would prevent the hound from being resummoned.
The same question could apply to Mage Armor. If a spell or effect causes the base AC to change, does the character need to spend an action to end the original casting of the spell before they can recast it with effect?
You can’t normally dismiss a spell that you cast unless (a) its description says you can or (b) it requires concentration and you decide to end your concentration on it. Otherwise, a spell’s magic is unleashed on the environment, and if you want to end it, you need to cast dispel magic on it. But at the same time, just like Temporary HP, the more powerful effect takes place. So if a new spell is cast that changes your AC to a higher AC than mage Armor would, then this new effect would overwrite Mage Armor. The same could be considered for False Life, since your Temporary HP has been used up, casting any false Life spell again is automatically more powerful(more temp HP) than the one currently on you, and therefore overwrites it.
So you're saying the spell remains in effect even if the effects of the spell are no longer in effect?
No, if everything the spell does has ended, the spell is not there.
I think I picked a bad example. This is not a question about the temporary hp.
It's a question of whether Combining magical effects applies.
Other examples
Shillelagh and Produce Flame specify that the spell ends, (and can therefore be recast with no conflict) under certain conditions. Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound with a duration of 8 hours, specifies the conditions under which the hound effect ends, not when the spell ends, meaning IF Combining Magical Effects applies, the same spell cast in the same place before the original Castings duration has been fulfilled would prevent the hound from being resummoned.
The same question could apply to Mage Armor. If a spell or effect causes the base AC to change, does the character need to spend an action to end the original casting of the spell before they can recast it with effect?
You can’t normally dismiss a spell that you cast unless (a) its description says you can or (b) it requires concentration and you decide to end your concentration on it. Otherwise, a spell’s magic is unleashed on the environment, and if you want to end it, you need to cast dispel magic on it. But at the same time, just like Temporary HP, the more powerful effect takes place. So if a new spell is cast that changes your AC to a higher AC than mage Armor would, then this new effect would overwrite Mage Armor. The same could be considered for False Life, since your Temporary HP has been used up, casting any false Life spell again is automatically more powerful(more temp HP) than the one currently on you, and therefore overwrites it.
So you're saying the spell remains in effect even if the effects of the spell are no longer in effect?
No, if everything the spell does has ended, the spell is not there.
So you're saying the spell remains in effect even if the effects of the spell are no longer in effect?
Yes, because outside Dispel Magic or somesuch, the spell is still there even though the temp HP are used up. If you rolled an 8, the only way to get more would be to cast it at a higher level. Then the higher level spell would take effect.
Even if the spell were technically still in effect, your conclusion is incorrect. If you rolled an 8, the only way to get more would be to cast it again at any level and roll literally anything, because it doesn’t matter what you originally rolled, the potency of the effect is 0 now.
Is it safe then to say it's the DM's call as to whether a spell with fixed duration remains in effect once once the effects created by the spell have expired since there's no official ruling one way oy the other?
Is it safe then to say it's the DM's call as to whether a spell with fixed duration remains in effect once once the effects created by the spell have expired since there's no official ruling one way oy the other?
Sure, if you ignore the common sense that a spell can’t be “in effect” if there is no effect. But what isn’t the DM’s call (except insofar as everything is) is that it doesn’t actually matter except in extremely niche circumstances like whether or not Detect Magic will ping.
A still-in-effect spell that isn’t doing anything will always be overridden by a new casting of the spell that is doing something because of how combining game effects works by RAW. The more potent effect always takes precedence.
But when two or more game features have the same name, only the effects of one of them—the most potent one—apply while the durations of the effects overlap
You apply False Life (or similar spell) to yourself. For the duration of 1 hour you have say 6 temp hp; what this means is that:
You have 6 temp hp
Those 6 temporary hit points go away, regardless of how many are left, after 1 hour
If you lose all 6 temp hp, you are still under the spells effect for the duration.
If you were to recast False Life on yourself, you would apply the most potent of the two instances. Say you had 2/6 temp hp remaining and rolled a total of 8 for your second casting, that is decidedly more potent than the 2, so that effect would replace the first one.
You could have lost all your temp hp, still be under the initial duration, and get False Life cast on you again, getting the second casting as that by definition has to be more potent.
So yep, if a spell has a duration that puts a clock on a limited resource, such as the case with False Life, you can have the spell recast on you within that duration, replacing the old effect with the new, more potent one (including resetting the duration)
Can the spell False Life be recast as soon as the temporary hp granted by it are used up, or does the Caster have to wait until after the spell's hour duration has passed to gain any benefit from it again?
It does not say the caster must wait for x time, so I would say that they can re-cast it right away.
Temp hitpoints do not stack. You can cast it unlimited times in a row, but only the highest works. This mainly happens with the warlock ability to cast it for free.
They mean when you lose the temp hp from taking damage.
Right, can't stack, but the poster is asking if it can be cast again on someone as someone's pool of temp hp is depleted, or do they have to wait till the end of the spell's stated duration (one hour).
I'd say judgment call. If you say yea, as Mog_Dracov pointed out, you have the Warlock as permabuffer. If you want to be more hardcore and lethal in your game, saying the buff just doesn't stick until the duration passes I think would be a fair interpretation of the rules, but make sure the players know that's how you'll rule so they'll handle their temp HP accordingly.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
That is irrelevant. If a PC has more than one instance of Temp HP applied to them at the same time, only the highest version will count.
If a PC casts False Life on themselves and gains 5 THP, and then the very next turn casts it again and gains 7 THP, then that PC will have 7 THP. It does not matter if they lost any of the original 5 THP or not, the 7 is higher, so that’s the one that counts.
If a PC casts False Life on themselves and gains 7 THP, and then the very next turn casts it again and only gain 5 THP, then as long as they had not lost any of the original 7, that PC will have 7 THP.
If a PC casts False Life on themselves and gains 7 THP, and then take 1 point of damage reducing the number of THP to 6, and then the very next turn casts it again and only gain 5 THP, then they will still have 6 THP since it is still the higher value.
I hope that helps.
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The question comes down to:
Does a spell with a fixed duration remain in effect after the benefits of that spell have expired?
Using the False Life example, once the temporary hp are used up, if that ends the spell, then Combining Magical Effects doesn't apply to future castings of the spell, BUT if the spell remains in effect for the full hour even after the THP are all used up, Combining Magical Effects does apply.
Nothing to say you can't cast that same spell again, its only the effects that don't combine.
What you’re failing to realize is that the general “Combining Magical Effects” rules are not the ones that matter in this particular case. The specific rules governing THP are what matters. Those rules govern THP no matter how many different effects are going on:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/combat#DamageandHealing
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I think I picked a bad example. This is not a question about the temporary hp.
It's a question of whether Combining magical effects applies.
Other examples
Shillelagh and Produce Flame specify that the spell ends, (and can therefore be recast with no conflict) under certain conditions. Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound with a duration of 8 hours, specifies the conditions under which the hound effect ends, not when the spell ends, meaning IF Combining Magical Effects applies, the same spell cast in the same place before the original Castings duration has been fulfilled would prevent the hound from being resummoned.
The same question could apply to Mage Armor. If a spell or effect causes the base AC to change, does the character need to spend an action to end the original casting of the spell before they can recast it with effect?
So you're saying the spell remains in effect even if the effects of the spell are no longer in effect?
Yes, because outside Dispel Magic or somesuch, the spell is still there even though the temp HP are used up. If you rolled an 8, the only way to get more would be to cast it at a higher level. Then the higher level spell would take effect.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
No, if everything the spell does has ended, the spell is not there.
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2014/12/05/armor-of-agathys-false-life/
Direct quote from the link:
Agreed, the article only addresses Armor of Agathys.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
There is no effect, there is nothing there, dispel does nothing, nothing is nothing.
Sometimes common sense overrides what the spell doesn't say.
Even if the spell were technically still in effect, your conclusion is incorrect. If you rolled an 8, the only way to get more would be to cast it again at any level and roll literally anything, because it doesn’t matter what you originally rolled, the potency of the effect is 0 now.
I'm not seeing consensus.
Is it safe then to say it's the DM's call as to whether a spell with fixed duration remains in effect once once the effects created by the spell have expired since there's no official ruling one way oy the other?
Sure, if you ignore the common sense that a spell can’t be “in effect” if there is no effect. But what isn’t the DM’s call (except insofar as everything is) is that it doesn’t actually matter except in extremely niche circumstances like whether or not Detect Magic will ping.
A still-in-effect spell that isn’t doing anything will always be overridden by a new casting of the spell that is doing something because of how combining game effects works by RAW. The more potent effect always takes precedence.
From the Dungeon Master's Guide on combining game effects:
You apply False Life (or similar spell) to yourself. For the duration of 1 hour you have say 6 temp hp; what this means is that:
If you were to recast False Life on yourself, you would apply the most potent of the two instances. Say you had 2/6 temp hp remaining and rolled a total of 8 for your second casting, that is decidedly more potent than the 2, so that effect would replace the first one.
You could have lost all your temp hp, still be under the initial duration, and get False Life cast on you again, getting the second casting as that by definition has to be more potent.
So yep, if a spell has a duration that puts a clock on a limited resource, such as the case with False Life, you can have the spell recast on you within that duration, replacing the old effect with the new, more potent one (including resetting the duration)
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