I've always found that healing magic being under Evocation school of magic doesn't seem to fit. Evocation is usually about emitting energy but manipulating life force seems more Necromancy. Or perhaps you're just altering the flesh to knit wounds together, so Transmutation (although, restoring HP is really more than just wounds IMO). Abjuration I can sorta see an argument for but I feel like that is more for preventing harm than undoing it.
Do you think Evocation fits, or should it be something else? What are your thoughts?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Necromancy is my vote as that is what it was way back in ad&d and it fits with the whole manipulating life forces schtick, but it was conjuration for some reason in 3e so who knows what the rationale behind it now being evocation based atually is, maybe it is just doing the rounds and it'll be Illusion based in a future edition.
It can fit into all of them except Illusion imo. And as iconic as I consider the schools of magic to be, this is one of their myriad flaws as a magical indexing system.
My vote is for transmutation. You're transmuting something from hurt to not hurt. Plus, transmutation spells are frequently support, so healing fits under the mechanical banner pretty well (which I can't really say for necromancy or evocation). I understand the logic behind evocation, though: you're evoking raw energy from the positive energy plane the same way fireball evokes raw energy from the elemental plane of fire.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
I've always thought of Necromancy being the best fit. Necromancy in my mind has always been a flavor of life magic. Healing, should be part of that.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
There's no good answer, because it's an arguable fit for several schools, and then you end up wanting to limit the schools of magic a class/subclass has access to, and you either can't give them the healing you want them to have without giving them stuff they shouldn't, or you can't stop them from getting healing when they shouldn't. (At some point in the playtest for the new revision, they moved it to a new school from where it is now so (IIRC) bards could still have access to it. Where it'll end up in the final version is anyone's guess.)
The schools of magic and class lists and all that are badly in need of being trashed and rebuilt, but that isn't likely to happen this round.
From the Player's Handbook under Wizard - Necromancy:
The School of Necromancy explores the cosmic forces of life, death, and undeath. As you focus your studies in this tradition, you learn to manipulate the energy that animates all living things.
I too have also felt that healing magic belongs under Necromancy. But I wouldn't be mad if WotC never changed it. Just puzzled.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
#Open D&D
Have the Physical Books? Confused as to why you're not allowed to redeem them for free on D&D Beyond? Questions answered here at the Hardcover Books, D&D Beyond and You FAQ
Looking to add mouse-over triggered tooltips to such things like magic items, monsters or combat actions? Then dash over to the How to Add Tooltips thread.
My vote is for transmutation. You're transmuting something from hurt to not hurt. Plus, transmutation spells are frequently support, so healing fits under the mechanical banner pretty well (which I can't really say for necromancy or evocation). I understand the logic behind evocation, though: you're evoking raw energy from the positive energy plane the same way fireball evokes raw energy from the elemental plane of fire.
Personally, I would group the necromancy and healing spells under the same school—but I would not call if necromancy. The etymology does not work out well, since the “death” root is somewhat antithetical to the purpose of healing—healing magic is not portrayed as using death magic as the basis for the repairs, but using life energy to heal individuals. You could, however, lump both under a title of Vitamancy (taking the Latin for life, as opposed to the Latin for death)—that covers how we traditionally view healing, but also covers the reanimation, “unlife” aspect of necromancy.
However, since no such school exists, I think transmutation is probably the next best option. The etymology of necromancy does not work too well, and I have seen too many fragile players who throw a hissy fit over anything necromancy because their limited imagination necessitates “necromancy = evil” in their mind.
As a slight tangent, as this can also be applied to Alignments, you could do away with schools of magic and try adopting the Magic the Gathering colour system of Black, Blue, Green, Red, White and Uncoloured. Each "colour" has words associated with it, with healing typically falling under Green and White colours, and means you can still use spells or abilities such as Detect Magic and give one or more colours of magic instead of a school of magic. In this method a Cure Wounds spell might be "white", to represent its pure healing, while a Vampiric Touch spell might be "Black and White", to represent its harming and healing qualitiies.
There are a few articles online about the colour pie chart and the words associated with them but this method offers some freedom with spells but also requires a little bit more work part of DM's and players.
So I think there's an aspect here of how the schools of magic relate differently to wizards/arcane casters vs divine/natural casters. Evocation to a wizard involves using elemental power to produce (usually damaging) effects. Evocation for other casters seems to have a different flavor; not only are healing spells evocation, but spells like Guiding Bolt, Sacred Flame, the various smites, Spiritual Weapon, etc. There seems to be an idea that evocation for a divine caster is using that divine/radiant/natural energy rather than the four elements, and that energy can be used to harm or heal.
I don't mind healing being distinct from spells that have to do explicitly with being alive or dead, so I don't think it has to be necromancy, though I understand that argument. Transmutation makes some sense, that idea of changing the state of something. Ultimately I don't personally mind healing being evocation, though I wonder if that sort of "divine" category could be its own school entirely.
On a side note since I was looking at evocation spells, why is Sending evocation but Message transmutation?
On a side note since I was looking at evocation spells, why is Sending evocation but Message transmutation?
Nobody knows. Neither of them make any sense: divination is very obviously the correct school for those types of spells, since they're all about transmitting information.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
I've always thought of Necromancy being the best fit. Necromancy in my mind has always been a flavor of life magic. Healing, should be part of that.
Necromancy is of or having to do with death.
Which can include preventing it, reducing its influence and protecting against it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
I just checked my old 2e PHB, and at least back then, Cure Light Wounds was Necromancy. I'll respectfully have to disagree that Necromancy is of or having to do with death as far as the history of the game is concerned.
Cure Light Wounds (Necromancy) Reversible Sphere: Healing Range: Touch Components: V, S Duration: Permanent Casting Time: 5 Area of Effect: Creature touched Saving Throw: None When casting this spell and laying his hand upon a creature, the priest causes 1d8 points of wound or other injury damage to the creature’s body to be healed. This healing cannot affect creatures without corporeal bodies, nor can it cure wounds of creatures not living or of extraplanar origin. The reverse of the spell, cause light wounds, operates in the same manner, inflicting 1d8 points of damage. If a creature is avoid-
ing this touch, an attack roll is needed to determine if the priest’s hand strikes the opponent and causes such a wound. Curing is permanent only insofar as the creature does not sustain further damage; caused wounds will heal—or can be cured—just as any normal injury.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Yeah, dude, you know what I mean. "death magic" isn't limited to "dealing" death. It can also refer to abating death, reversing it's effects partially (healing) or fully (resurrection).
In D&D terms necromancy is described as magic that can "manipulate the energies of life and death" (quote from the PHB).
Everyone can have their opinions on which category is best for healing but please don't correct others with a limited view of understanding the term especially when that limitation doesn't actually match the D&D term.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Conjuration is the correct placement because of Aristotelian physics. Damage to the physical form of a creature is harmful because it is a corruption of the ideal form of that creature. In order to restore damage, the magic must cause the creature to return to the more idealized version of itself. Healing magic works because it conjures the idealized form and imposes it on the marred copy, restoring order (and hp in the process).
Just for the hell of it......An idea for an illusion based healing spell.
Spell Name: Placebo.
Spell Level: 2nd.
School: Illusion.
Componenets: V, S, M (a pea sized piece of stone or gravel which the target must swallow).
Duration: Instant.
Spell Description: You weave illusion magic into the mind of a humanoid and make them believe they have been healed of some of their injuries. The target must make an Intelligence Saving throw and heals 2d6 points of damage on a failed save and heals no damage on a successful save. If the target is friendly towards the caster they can choose to fail this saving throw. This spell can restore hit points but cannot restore lost limbs, organs of other missing body parts.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
* Need a character idea? Search for "Rob76's Unused" in the Story and Lore section.
I've always found that healing magic being under Evocation school of magic doesn't seem to fit. Evocation is usually about emitting energy but manipulating life force seems more Necromancy. Or perhaps you're just altering the flesh to knit wounds together, so Transmutation (although, restoring HP is really more than just wounds IMO). Abjuration I can sorta see an argument for but I feel like that is more for preventing harm than undoing it.
Do you think Evocation fits, or should it be something else? What are your thoughts?
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Necromancy is my vote as that is what it was way back in ad&d and it fits with the whole manipulating life forces schtick, but it was conjuration for some reason in 3e so who knows what the rationale behind it now being evocation based atually is, maybe it is just doing the rounds and it'll be Illusion based in a future edition.
It can fit into all of them except Illusion imo. And as iconic as I consider the schools of magic to be, this is one of their myriad flaws as a magical indexing system.
My vote is for transmutation. You're transmuting something from hurt to not hurt. Plus, transmutation spells are frequently support, so healing fits under the mechanical banner pretty well (which I can't really say for necromancy or evocation). I understand the logic behind evocation, though: you're evoking raw energy from the positive energy plane the same way fireball evokes raw energy from the elemental plane of fire.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
I've always thought of Necromancy being the best fit. Necromancy in my mind has always been a flavor of life magic. Healing, should be part of that.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
There's no good answer, because it's an arguable fit for several schools, and then you end up wanting to limit the schools of magic a class/subclass has access to, and you either can't give them the healing you want them to have without giving them stuff they shouldn't, or you can't stop them from getting healing when they shouldn't. (At some point in the playtest for the new revision, they moved it to a new school from where it is now so (IIRC) bards could still have access to it. Where it'll end up in the final version is anyone's guess.)
The schools of magic and class lists and all that are badly in need of being trashed and rebuilt, but that isn't likely to happen this round.
From the Player's Handbook under Wizard - Necromancy:
The School of Necromancy explores the cosmic forces of life, death, and undeath. As you focus your studies in this tradition, you learn to manipulate the energy that animates all living things.
I too have also felt that healing magic belongs under Necromancy. But I wouldn't be mad if WotC never changed it. Just puzzled.
#Open D&D
Have the Physical Books? Confused as to why you're not allowed to redeem them for free on D&D Beyond? Questions answered here at the Hardcover Books, D&D Beyond and You FAQ
Looking to add mouse-over triggered tooltips to such things like magic items, monsters or combat actions? Then dash over to the How to Add Tooltips thread.
You bought my vote, necromancy has problems.
Personally, I would group the necromancy and healing spells under the same school—but I would not call if necromancy. The etymology does not work out well, since the “death” root is somewhat antithetical to the purpose of healing—healing magic is not portrayed as using death magic as the basis for the repairs, but using life energy to heal individuals. You could, however, lump both under a title of Vitamancy (taking the Latin for life, as opposed to the Latin for death)—that covers how we traditionally view healing, but also covers the reanimation, “unlife” aspect of necromancy.
However, since no such school exists, I think transmutation is probably the next best option. The etymology of necromancy does not work too well, and I have seen too many fragile players who throw a hissy fit over anything necromancy because their limited imagination necessitates “necromancy = evil” in their mind.
As a slight tangent, as this can also be applied to Alignments, you could do away with schools of magic and try adopting the Magic the Gathering colour system of Black, Blue, Green, Red, White and Uncoloured. Each "colour" has words associated with it, with healing typically falling under Green and White colours, and means you can still use spells or abilities such as Detect Magic and give one or more colours of magic instead of a school of magic. In this method a Cure Wounds spell might be "white", to represent its pure healing, while a Vampiric Touch spell might be "Black and White", to represent its harming and healing qualitiies.
There are a few articles online about the colour pie chart and the words associated with them but this method offers some freedom with spells but also requires a little bit more work part of DM's and players.
So I think there's an aspect here of how the schools of magic relate differently to wizards/arcane casters vs divine/natural casters. Evocation to a wizard involves using elemental power to produce (usually damaging) effects. Evocation for other casters seems to have a different flavor; not only are healing spells evocation, but spells like Guiding Bolt, Sacred Flame, the various smites, Spiritual Weapon, etc. There seems to be an idea that evocation for a divine caster is using that divine/radiant/natural energy rather than the four elements, and that energy can be used to harm or heal.
I don't mind healing being distinct from spells that have to do explicitly with being alive or dead, so I don't think it has to be necromancy, though I understand that argument. Transmutation makes some sense, that idea of changing the state of something. Ultimately I don't personally mind healing being evocation, though I wonder if that sort of "divine" category could be its own school entirely.
On a side note since I was looking at evocation spells, why is Sending evocation but Message transmutation?
Nobody knows. Neither of them make any sense: divination is very obviously the correct school for those types of spells, since they're all about transmitting information.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
IIRC Message is about throwing your voice, so you're altering either the sound itself or your vocals.
But you could also justify it as Illusion or Divination. Like I said, spell schools are a bit squishy.
Necromancy is of or having to do with death.
Which can include preventing it, reducing its influence and protecting against it.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
I just checked my old 2e PHB, and at least back then, Cure Light Wounds was Necromancy. I'll respectfully have to disagree that Necromancy is of or having to do with death as far as the history of the game is concerned.
Cure Light Wounds
(Necromancy)
Reversible
Sphere: Healing
Range: Touch Components: V, S
Duration: Permanent Casting Time: 5
Area of Effect: Creature touched Saving Throw: None
When casting this spell and laying his hand upon a creature, the
priest causes 1d8 points of wound or other injury damage to the
creature’s body to be healed. This healing cannot affect creatures
without corporeal bodies, nor can it cure wounds of creatures not
living or of extraplanar origin.
The reverse of the spell, cause light wounds, operates in the
same manner, inflicting 1d8 points of damage. If a creature is avoid-
ing this touch, an attack roll is needed to determine if the priest’s
hand strikes the opponent and causes such a wound.
Curing is permanent only insofar as the creature does not sustain
further damage; caused wounds will heal—or can be cured—just as
any normal injury.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Protection spells are of Abjuration.
Yeah, dude, you know what I mean. "death magic" isn't limited to "dealing" death. It can also refer to abating death, reversing it's effects partially (healing) or fully (resurrection).
In D&D terms necromancy is described as magic that can "manipulate the energies of life and death" (quote from the PHB).
Everyone can have their opinions on which category is best for healing but please don't correct others with a limited view of understanding the term especially when that limitation doesn't actually match the D&D term.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Conjuration is the correct placement because of Aristotelian physics. Damage to the physical form of a creature is harmful because it is a corruption of the ideal form of that creature. In order to restore damage, the magic must cause the creature to return to the more idealized version of itself. Healing magic works because it conjures the idealized form and imposes it on the marred copy, restoring order (and hp in the process).
Just for the hell of it......An idea for an illusion based healing spell.
Spell Name: Placebo.
Spell Level: 2nd.
School: Illusion.
Componenets: V, S, M (a pea sized piece of stone or gravel which the target must swallow).
Duration: Instant.
Spell Description: You weave illusion magic into the mind of a humanoid and make them believe they have been healed of some of their injuries. The target must make an Intelligence Saving throw and heals 2d6 points of damage on a failed save and heals no damage on a successful save. If the target is friendly towards the caster they can choose to fail this saving throw. This spell can restore hit points but cannot restore lost limbs, organs of other missing body parts.