I run several groups each week and one of the most common challenges is the amount of dead air that exists when players get to their turn and have to make a choice or take an action. You can literally count the minutes tick by. I think a lot has to do with the mindset that " If it inst my turn I don't have to pay attention"
I have thought about putting timers on PC actions and even tried to cycle through everyone and circle back to the indecisive players....
Mine have a 6 second rule. Hit 6 seconds when it is your turn to do something and you did not say exactly what you were going to do and your character does nothing at all.
Gets them motivated to be ready.
I used to have everyone say what their character was going to do in the next round and then have them roll for individual initiative. Made for some interesting actions...
I run several groups each week and one of the most common challenges is the amount of dead air that exists when players get to their turn and have to make a choice or take an action. You can literally count the minutes tick by. I think a lot has to do with the mindset that " If it inst my turn I don't have to pay attention"
I have thought about putting timers on PC actions and even tried to cycle through everyone and circle back to the indecisive players....
any ideas
this can matter for casters as their plans to fireball the BBEG kinda got screwed up when the paladin or fighter got right in its face. just talk to your players and remind them before combat starts that they need to be a little faster on their turns
Try communication and transparency. If you are using phrases like 'I think', you don't know what is the cause and that means you are likely to make a big mistake driven by frustration that costs you players and costs your players fun.
I make my players be on the ready with a primary plan and a couple alternates in case things suddenly change (which pretty much happens constantly). There is lots of time to plan, look at spells, check rules, consider option, etc... while all the others doing their turn. Too much delay and they get skipped until next turn.
One thought I had was get players to decide what they are doing BEFORE they roll initiative ( The OG Marvel Super Hero RPG used this system and made players make a ability roll to change their actions if their original course of action was no longer viable)
The idea was to get players to be more assertive without knowing all the variables at play. An argument can be made about players spending more time the more information they have ie. micro managing exact locations and details versus going with the flow)
I run several groups each week and one of the most common challenges is the amount of dead air that exists when players get to their turn and have to make a choice or take an action. You can literally count the minutes tick by. I think a lot has to do with the mindset that " If it inst my turn I don't have to pay attention"
I have thought about putting timers on PC actions and even tried to cycle through everyone and circle back to the indecisive players....
any ideas
Give a player 10 seconds, then say "PC X does nothing..who is next in initiative?" Players will adapt quickly.
Analysis paralysis is a real thing and retailer spend a tremendous amount of time considering how many different items to offer of similar products. Most of the problem is with D&D itself, and specifically 2024 (and 5.0). To many choices, to many strategy changes, and to many actions per turn. I suggested WotC remove the bonus action from the new edition, but instead it appears they have offered up even more ways to use it. I suggested fewer spells, and having them scale so casters already know how the spells work, they just need to decide what level to cast.
Solutions:
1. Let the combats drag on and on. If everyone is having fun, no need to break things.
2. Make combat easier (halve HP), or more deadly (double monster damage). Either means fewer rounds.
3. Homebrew monsters that cause saving throws instead of making attack roles. This keeps the players engaged throughout the combat round because they are rolling dice.
4. Privately ask the problem player if he would be interested in playing a different character. Offer up powerful magic items or homebrew feats, so they can play a very simple character that keeps up with the crazy multiclass power gamer builds but does the same thing every round with only rare exceptions. If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
5. Split the party. No seriously, split the party in half. Have them play on different days or times. Instead of running 6 players for 6 hours, run three players for 3 hours, then the other three for the other three hours.
In the online group I play in we're a small group where it's not uncommon for it to be one DM and two players, though we'll often have at least one of the players running two characters. (We swap who's DMing so their character gets off-screened or botted during their time DMing.) We generally go rather quickly IMO. But part of that is also having default actions we do most of the time. (Warlock casting Eldritch Blast for example.) We also try to make sure we have a clear initiative of who's going when.
So a lot of solutions in this thread, but at the end, you run the game.
I do think timers are important because respecting time is important, but 6-10 seconds is bullshit. People telling you to just skip turns are just asking you to create trouble at your table, which is advice that you shouldn't follow. It might work in some groups but just because an action is 6 seconds doesn't mean a real person can parse what they want to do in six seconds. Same token, giving players literal minutes is also insane. A table of four would maybe get through four rounds of combat in a hour. Absolutely not.
First, lead by example. When it's your turn you gotta move. Explain your actions and get to rolling. Second, call outs. "It's X turn, Y you're up next". Third, if the pace of play speeds up? Reward them. Make an enemy get frazzled with how coordinated your group is being and not act in a given round. Rewards and not penalties are a great way to foster the DM/Table relationship. Punishments for the PLAYER not acting creates interpersonal issues. Why even dive into that?
There are other things too, depending. If a player is taking literal minutes, why? Are they a spellcaster who doesn't know their spells, if so help them with their bread and butter spells you see them using on a regular. If its someone who isn't paying attention even after you've made considerable effort? Gotta talk to them and figure it out. Are you throwing insanely complex combats at them? If so, you gotta give them time to think it out.
It's hard to give a definitely correct answer because, honestly, these problems are down to problems at the table...and it could be a lot of different issues at the table. You may not like to hear it, but the real problem could be you.
So, have a mini-session 0. Be honest and open about the situation. "Hey, so I've noticed that combat is taking a long time, last session it took half the time we had, and I'd love to do some roleplay and other stuff. What do you think we could do to help speed up our turns?" Then listen and engage with what they're saying. Here are some thoughts on what might be causing it and some solutions:
They don't understand how the game works. You could run a tutorial and then have a few simpler combats and one way to do that is to have low level characters. If you're already at medium to high level ones in your campaign, then do a few level 1 one-shots. You could even frame it as the party visiting gladiator games, and the players taking control of the gladiators (or something like that).
They're not engaging and getting distracted. You need to make combat more fun, interesting and important. That's a joint effort, because you have to get the players describing what they're doing rather than Pokémon style "I use Extra Attack! Critical Hit!", because combat is roughly 50% DM and 50% party. What monsters do is also important - Goblins are ok and fine for bread and butter fights, but you also want more interesting ones like a Roper or a Remorhaz that does more than just hit them. That's when combat gets fun and engaging.
They're not preparing. Tell them to always have a plan in mind. Once they've had their turn, they should be plotting what they're going to do next, then updating it as the situation evolves. You can help encourage that by commentating on the lineup, "Alex, you're up, Bob you're going to be next, so have your plan ready! Alex, what do you do?"
They're not preparing part II, don't be too harsh, but have time limits. If they're stalling or taking too long...they lose their turn. I wouldn't be too harsh - if they had a plan but the guy before them screwed it up, then give them time. However, if they evidently just didn't bother to prepare and were too busy talking about Marvel...then they get maybe twenty seconds (not including time taken to declare their actions, so it gets paused while they tell you what they're doing) and if they don't do it...they're character is surprised and skipped. It'll be stressful for them at first, but they'll soon learn how to prepare and break analysis paralysis.
There are a lot of causes and each one has solutions. I don't want to list them all because the solutions could only work for those problems (which you may not have) and could be harmful if used for other problems. Have an open discussion about the issue and try to nail down the problem, and find a solution ideally, the solution will come from them though - people engage with their own solutions much more than other people's.
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You can press them. Taking a cue from Bazromark above, Matt Mercer often says, with urgency, [character], things are happening, what are you going to do? when he hears his players dithering.
But also, mechanically, what tools are you using? In the Roll20 campaigns I play in, we have an initiative tracker, and I can see exactly how far it is to my turn, and importantly also, who goes before me. I'm looking at the map too.
Tools can be a factor and if they are working from small devices where it's hard to see their map and their character sheet at the same time, connection troubles, or other awkwardness, this also can be a solvable source of the issue.
If you have minutes of actual dead air, not just dithering, that's a bad sign. Are they on camera? Can you see that they're actually there? I mean if I hear NOTHING from the player, I'd assume they have stepped away or lost connection, and I'd skip/defer their turn, maybe just give them the Dodge action.
I'd also talk to the players either individually or as a group and feel them out. Some people have trouble holding attention and some people are just not choosing to be present. I'd add that as each player makes a habit of dead air and waiting, it probably creates more people stepping away for a snack or getting diverted by their phone etc.
If the player is there and they are merely hemming and hawing, try pressing them during the combat and then if that doesn't just solve, try to diagnose if it's indecision or if it's a lack of understanding of the options and mechanics, etc. You might consider if the types of combat you are running might be overly complicated, like maybe some simpler ones may help players get more comfortable with the mechanics and options for their characters.
For myself, I don't mind indecision when it's clear that the player has been paying attention and is just trying to work out what to do. (Above the table nudges can be helpful, maybe, in spelling out some options, especially for an inexperienced player.) I DO mind when what I'm hearing is that the player has no idea what the state of the combat is and when there isn't a temporary reason for that (they had to step away specifically, everything just changed on the turn ahead of them, etc), ie when it feels like they simply aren't present for the game.
It's still fun for me if combat is slow, just less fun if I feel that the other players aren't respectful of the time we have together or engaged with the game.
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I run several groups each week and one of the most common challenges is the amount of dead air that exists when players get to their turn and have to make a choice or take an action. You can literally count the minutes tick by. I think a lot has to do with the mindset that " If it inst my turn I don't have to pay attention"
I have thought about putting timers on PC actions and even tried to cycle through everyone and circle back to the indecisive players....
any ideas
Mine have a 6 second rule. Hit 6 seconds when it is your turn to do something and you did not say exactly what you were going to do and your character does nothing at all.
Gets them motivated to be ready.
I used to have everyone say what their character was going to do in the next round and then have them roll for individual initiative. Made for some interesting actions...
this can matter for casters as their plans to fireball the BBEG kinda got screwed up when the paladin or fighter got right in its face. just talk to your players and remind them before combat starts that they need to be a little faster on their turns
Try communication and transparency. If you are using phrases like 'I think', you don't know what is the cause and that means you are likely to make a big mistake driven by frustration that costs you players and costs your players fun.
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I make my players be on the ready with a primary plan and a couple alternates in case things suddenly change (which pretty much happens constantly). There is lots of time to plan, look at spells, check rules, consider option, etc... while all the others doing their turn. Too much delay and they get skipped until next turn.
Are these groups you are playing with Friends or are they paid DM GIg?
One thought I had was get players to decide what they are doing BEFORE they roll initiative ( The OG Marvel Super Hero RPG used this system and made players make a ability roll to change their actions if their original course of action was no longer viable)
The idea was to get players to be more assertive without knowing all the variables at play. An argument can be made about players spending more time the more information they have ie. micro managing exact locations and details versus going with the flow)
Give a player 10 seconds, then say "PC X does nothing..who is next in initiative?" Players will adapt quickly.
Analysis paralysis is a real thing and retailer spend a tremendous amount of time considering how many different items to offer of similar products. Most of the problem is with D&D itself, and specifically 2024 (and 5.0). To many choices, to many strategy changes, and to many actions per turn. I suggested WotC remove the bonus action from the new edition, but instead it appears they have offered up even more ways to use it. I suggested fewer spells, and having them scale so casters already know how the spells work, they just need to decide what level to cast.
Solutions:
1. Let the combats drag on and on. If everyone is having fun, no need to break things.
2. Make combat easier (halve HP), or more deadly (double monster damage). Either means fewer rounds.
3. Homebrew monsters that cause saving throws instead of making attack roles. This keeps the players engaged throughout the combat round because they are rolling dice.
4. Privately ask the problem player if he would be interested in playing a different character. Offer up powerful magic items or homebrew feats, so they can play a very simple character that keeps up with the crazy multiclass power gamer builds but does the same thing every round with only rare exceptions. If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
5. Split the party. No seriously, split the party in half. Have them play on different days or times. Instead of running 6 players for 6 hours, run three players for 3 hours, then the other three for the other three hours.
How do combats look in your campaign?
In the online group I play in we're a small group where it's not uncommon for it to be one DM and two players, though we'll often have at least one of the players running two characters. (We swap who's DMing so their character gets off-screened or botted during their time DMing.) We generally go rather quickly IMO. But part of that is also having default actions we do most of the time. (Warlock casting Eldritch Blast for example.) We also try to make sure we have a clear initiative of who's going when.
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So a lot of solutions in this thread, but at the end, you run the game.
I do think timers are important because respecting time is important, but 6-10 seconds is bullshit. People telling you to just skip turns are just asking you to create trouble at your table, which is advice that you shouldn't follow. It might work in some groups but just because an action is 6 seconds doesn't mean a real person can parse what they want to do in six seconds. Same token, giving players literal minutes is also insane. A table of four would maybe get through four rounds of combat in a hour. Absolutely not.
First, lead by example. When it's your turn you gotta move. Explain your actions and get to rolling. Second, call outs. "It's X turn, Y you're up next". Third, if the pace of play speeds up? Reward them. Make an enemy get frazzled with how coordinated your group is being and not act in a given round. Rewards and not penalties are a great way to foster the DM/Table relationship. Punishments for the PLAYER not acting creates interpersonal issues. Why even dive into that?
There are other things too, depending. If a player is taking literal minutes, why? Are they a spellcaster who doesn't know their spells, if so help them with their bread and butter spells you see them using on a regular. If its someone who isn't paying attention even after you've made considerable effort? Gotta talk to them and figure it out. Are you throwing insanely complex combats at them? If so, you gotta give them time to think it out.
All good ideas. Thanks community.
It's hard to give a definitely correct answer because, honestly, these problems are down to problems at the table...and it could be a lot of different issues at the table. You may not like to hear it, but the real problem could be you.
So, have a mini-session 0. Be honest and open about the situation. "Hey, so I've noticed that combat is taking a long time, last session it took half the time we had, and I'd love to do some roleplay and other stuff. What do you think we could do to help speed up our turns?" Then listen and engage with what they're saying. Here are some thoughts on what might be causing it and some solutions:
There are a lot of causes and each one has solutions. I don't want to list them all because the solutions could only work for those problems (which you may not have) and could be harmful if used for other problems. Have an open discussion about the issue and try to nail down the problem, and find a solution ideally, the solution will come from them though - people engage with their own solutions much more than other people's.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Maybe the Mathew Mercer way to do it. :)
I've noticed that often in combat, he says stuff like.
Player A it is your turn, and Player B you are next, what do you want to do.
Then Player A does their stuff, and player B is aware that they are next, and can start planning.
And then, That was player A's turn, Player B you are on, Player C, your are next.
You can press them. Taking a cue from Bazromark above, Matt Mercer often says, with urgency, [character], things are happening, what are you going to do? when he hears his players dithering.
But also, mechanically, what tools are you using? In the Roll20 campaigns I play in, we have an initiative tracker, and I can see exactly how far it is to my turn, and importantly also, who goes before me. I'm looking at the map too.
Tools can be a factor and if they are working from small devices where it's hard to see their map and their character sheet at the same time, connection troubles, or other awkwardness, this also can be a solvable source of the issue.
If you have minutes of actual dead air, not just dithering, that's a bad sign. Are they on camera? Can you see that they're actually there? I mean if I hear NOTHING from the player, I'd assume they have stepped away or lost connection, and I'd skip/defer their turn, maybe just give them the Dodge action.
I'd also talk to the players either individually or as a group and feel them out. Some people have trouble holding attention and some people are just not choosing to be present. I'd add that as each player makes a habit of dead air and waiting, it probably creates more people stepping away for a snack or getting diverted by their phone etc.
If the player is there and they are merely hemming and hawing, try pressing them during the combat and then if that doesn't just solve, try to diagnose if it's indecision or if it's a lack of understanding of the options and mechanics, etc. You might consider if the types of combat you are running might be overly complicated, like maybe some simpler ones may help players get more comfortable with the mechanics and options for their characters.
For myself, I don't mind indecision when it's clear that the player has been paying attention and is just trying to work out what to do. (Above the table nudges can be helpful, maybe, in spelling out some options, especially for an inexperienced player.) I DO mind when what I'm hearing is that the player has no idea what the state of the combat is and when there isn't a temporary reason for that (they had to step away specifically, everything just changed on the turn ahead of them, etc), ie when it feels like they simply aren't present for the game.
It's still fun for me if combat is slow, just less fun if I feel that the other players aren't respectful of the time we have together or engaged with the game.