Prerequisite: Requires a Dexterity score of 13 or higher
Thanks to extensive practice with thrown weapons, you gain the following benefits:
You gain proficiency in weapons with the Thrown property.
Being within 5 feet of a hostile creature doesn’t impose disadvantage on your ranged weapon attack rolls.
When making a Ranged Attack with a light weapon with the Thrown property, drawing it is part of the attack (You still need to have a free hand to do so).
When you use the Attack action to attack with a light weapon, you can use a bonus action to make a Ranged Attack by throwing a light weapon with the Thrown property. You don't add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus attack, unless that modifier is negative.
When a hostile creature's movement provokes an opportunity attack from you, you can use your reaction to make one ranged weapon weapon attack against the provoking creature if the weapon you attack with has the Thrown property.
You have access to a new Martial Ranged Weapon: Throwing Knives. 1/2 lb, 2 sp each. 1d4 piercing. Light, Thrown (20/60)
I was trying to create a balanced "Thrown Expert" alternative to Crossbow Expert. The other homebrew feats I saw didn't quite encapsulate what I thought I wanted, nor did I feel they were balanced.
Known Benefits:
Gives proficiency with some powerful weapons that have the Thrown property (especially Trident and Net)
Allows the player to further benefit from features that improve Ranged Skills, like Sharpshooter, Archery, and Volley, when throwing weapons.
Removes disadvantage when making a ranged weapon attack 5ft from target
Allows player to keep hands free during combat, because they can always "draw and throw" and also throw a weapon as a reaction
Creates a new ranged weapon, that is basically a Dart, but replaces Finesse with Light.
Gives player a version of Two Weapon Fighting with ranged weapons. Which can be used in several combinations ... Like attacking with a Scimitar, then using a Bonus Action to throw a Handaxe. Or, attacking with a Dagger, and then throwing that same dagger.
Codifies drawing and throwing a Light Thrown Weapon as not consuming their one "free interaction", leaving a player free to draw or stow another weapon, or other interaction. Requiring it to be Light prohibits things like carrying a barrel of Yklwas and throwing half a dozen in one turn.
Known Drawbacks:
Unlike Crossbow Expert, only gives the 5 ft attack benefit to ranged weapon attacks, not ranged attacks (which includes spells).
"Ranged TWF" really only benefits a small set of thrown weapons (Daggers, Handaxes, Light Hammers and Throwing Knives)... but the same could be said about Crossbow Expert.
Player could basically use Handaxes exclusively, which would be the most damage effective weapon to throw ... but it's still a Melee weapon, uses STR, potentially throws 5gp away with every attack, and wouldn't be getting the +2 benefit from Archery or the -5/+10 on Sharpshooter.
While Crossbow Expert lets a player basically become a Hand Crossbow gunslinger with a 1d6 weapon, this steps back and focuses more on up-close ranged fighting and 1d4 weapons like Daggers, Darts and Throwing Knives. Focusing on Handaxes would have some drawbacks as mentioned above.
Goals: Create a feat in the vein of Crossbow Expert where players can utilize thrown weapons, which deal less damage but are more versatile than crossbows, while still working alongside feats like Crossbow Expert, Sharpshooter, and Dual Wielder.
Concerns: My biggest concern is that there was a very real mechanical reason that the designers didn't want Darts to be Light, nor be able to Two-Weapon-Fight with ranged weapons. There may be some ways I'm seeing that this can be exploited -- not just by a player using Archery and Sharpshooter (which is already a thing with CBE) -- but something else I'm not accounting for.
Any thoughts? Does anyone see some glaring problems here?
You can dual wield thrown weapons,as they are melee first. Also, dex helps no-one unless it's daggers. Throwing knives are redundant, as you have to have proficiency with martial weapons to have them, and are exactly the same as daggers. Although I like the concept, its easier to play test than ask, as you can solve your problems with people you know. I like the idea, but it needs some refining.
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'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
You can dual wield thrown weapons,as they are melee first. Also, dex helps no-one unless it's daggers. Throwing knives are redundant, as you have to have proficiency with martial weapons to have them, and are exactly the same as daggers. Although I like the concept, its easier to play test than ask, as you can solve your problems with people you know. I like the idea, but it needs some refining.
Hey, I appreciate the reply! So, yes, you can use daggers for TWF and throw them, but you're still making a ranged attack with a melee weapon. This feat effectively expands TWF to include Ranged Weapons, as long as they're Light and Thrown (so basically, just adds Throwing Knives) --- It's a variation on the feature of Firearm Specialist, but for Thrown weapons. This allows players to add Ranged Weapon bonuses to the TWF attack roll. This Feat would be for characters to specialize in Ranged Weapons with the Thrown property.
I don't think Throwing Knives are redundant. The Feat gives you proficiency with all weapons that have the Thrown property, which includes Throwing Knives. They aren't the same as daggers, as they are Ranged weapons (Daggers are Melee) and aren't Finesse, so they can't be used with STR bonuses. They are basically halfway between a Dart and a Dagger.
I fully agree that playtesting is the best feedback! I'll be trying it out with a DM in the next few weeks.
But THROWN weapons are classed as MELEE weapons, not ranged.
Not entirely, most of them: Dagger, Handaxe, Light Hammer, Javelin, Spear, Trident, and Yklwa are all melee weapons with the thrown property? Only dagger has finesse if I recall, so it is the only one that can be used with either Str or Dex, the others must all use Str. However, the Dart (and Boomerang and Net) is specifically a ranged weapon, and only because it has the finesse property, it uses either Dex and Str.
What the OP is doing, is basically taking a Dart, and dropping finesse, and adding light.
Ok, thanks sposta, as that helped me understand it more. I think it is op in some situations, and in others isn't. Maybe add a level perquisite, like 5th it higher? By then it is an option, but won't be the only one worth choosing, as most martial classes get extra attack, and Spellcasters get 3rd level spells.
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'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
Prerequisite: Requires a Dexterity score of 13 or higher
Thanks to extensive practice with thrown weapons, you gain the following benefits:
You gain proficiency in weapons with the Thrown property.
Being within 5 feet of a hostile creature doesn’t impose disadvantage on your ranged weapon attack rolls.
When making a Ranged Attack with a light weapon with the Thrown property, drawing it is part of the attack (You still need to have a free hand to do so).
When you use the Attack action to attack with a light weapon, you can use a bonus action to make a Ranged Attack by throwing a light weapon with the Thrown property. You don't add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus attack, unless that modifier is negative.
When a hostile creature's movement provokes an opportunity attack from you, you can use your reaction to make one ranged weapon weapon attack against the provoking creature if the weapon you attack with has the Thrown property.
You have access to a new Martial Ranged Weapon: Throwing Knives. 1/2 lb, 2 sp each. 1d4 piercing. Light, Thrown (20/60)
I was trying to create a balanced "Thrown Expert" alternative to Crossbow Expert. The other homebrew feats I saw didn't quite encapsulate what I thought I wanted, nor did I feel they were balanced.
Known Benefits:
Gives proficiency with some powerful weapons that have the Thrown property (especially Trident and Net)
Allows the player to further benefit from features that improve Ranged Skills, like Sharpshooter, Archery, and Volley, when throwing weapons.
Removes disadvantage when making a ranged weapon attack 5ft from target
Allows player to keep hands free during combat, because they can always "draw and throw" and also throw a weapon as a reaction
Creates a new ranged weapon, that is basically a Dart, but replaces Finesse with Light.
Gives player a version of Two Weapon Fighting with ranged weapons. Which can be used in several combinations ... Like attacking with a Scimitar, then using a Bonus Action to throw a Handaxe. Or, attacking with a Dagger, and then throwing that same dagger.
Codifies drawing and throwing a Light Thrown Weapon as not consuming their one "free interaction", leaving a player free to draw or stow another weapon, or other interaction. Requiring it to be Light prohibits things like carrying a barrel of Yklwas and throwing half a dozen in one turn.
Known Drawbacks:
Unlike Crossbow Expert, only gives the 5 ft attack benefit to ranged weapon attacks, not ranged attacks (which includes spells).
"Ranged TWF" really only benefits a small set of thrown weapons (Daggers, Handaxes, Light Hammers and Throwing Knives)... but the same could be said about Crossbow Expert.
Player could basically use Handaxes exclusively, which would be the most damage effective weapon to throw ... but it's still a Melee weapon, uses STR, potentially throws 5gp away with every attack, and wouldn't be getting the +2 benefit from Archery or the -5/+10 on Sharpshooter.
While Crossbow Expert lets a player basically become a Hand Crossbow gunslinger with a 1d6 weapon, this steps back and focuses more on up-close ranged fighting and 1d4 weapons like Daggers, Darts and Throwing Knives. Focusing on Handaxes would have some drawbacks as mentioned above.
Goals: Create a feat in the vein of Crossbow Expert where players can utilize thrown weapons, which deal less damage but are more versatile than crossbows, while still working alongside feats like Crossbow Expert, Sharpshooter, and Dual Wielder.
Concerns: My biggest concern is that there was a very real mechanical reason that the designers didn't want Darts to be Light, nor be able to Two-Weapon-Fight with ranged weapons. There may be some ways I'm seeing that this can be exploited -- not just by a player using Archery and Sharpshooter (which is already a thing with CBE) -- but something else I'm not accounting for.
Any thoughts? Does anyone see some glaring problems here?
When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you're holding in the other hand. You don't add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus attack, unless that modifier is negative.
If either weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon, instead of making a melee attack with it.
So I think this is all you really need:
Thrown Weapon Expert
Prerequisite: Requires a Dexterity score of 13 or higher
Thanks to extensive practice with thrown weapons, you gain the following benefits:
You gain proficiency in all simple and martial weapons with the Thrown property. That prevents improvised weapons from being inadvertently included.
When making a Ranged Attack with a weapon that has the Thrown property, you can draw that weapon as part of the attack (You still need to have a free hand to do so).
Being within 5 feet of a hostile creature doesn’t impose disadvantage on your ranged attacks you make with thrown weapons. Makes it more theme specific and also prevents inadvertently including actual Ranged Weapons like bows, etc.
When a hostile creature's movement provokes an opportunity attack from you, you can use your reaction to make one ranged weapon weapon attack against the provoking creature if the weapon you attack with has the Thrown property.
Weapons with the thrown property also count as both ranged and melee weapons for you. Let’s this feat interact with Sharpshooter, but requires the Character to have both feats to use the -5 Attack/+10 Damage feature. And also allows interaction with Dual Wielder.
When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you're holding in the other hand. You don't add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus attack, unless that modifier is negative.
If either weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon, instead of making a melee attack with it.
So I think this is all you really need:
Thrown Weapon Expert
Prerequisite: Requires a Dexterity score of 13 or higher
Thanks to extensive practice with thrown weapons, you gain the following benefits:
You gain proficiency in all simple and martial weapons with the Thrown property. That prevents improvised weapons from being inadvertently included.
When making a Ranged Attack with a weapon that has the Thrown property, you can draw that weapon as part of the attack (You still need to have a free hand to do so).
Being within 5 feet of a hostile creature doesn’t impose disadvantage on your ranged attacks you make with thrown weapons. Makes it more theme specific and also prevents inadvertently including actual Ranged Weapons like bows, etc.
When a hostile creature's movement provokes an opportunity attack from you, you can use your reaction to make one ranged weapon weapon attack against the provoking creature if the weapon you attack with has the Thrown property.
Weapons with the thrown property also count as both ranged and melee weapons for you. Let’s this feat interact with Sharpshooter, but requires the Character to have both feats to use the -5 Attack/+10 Damage feature. And also allows interaction with Dual Wielder.
I hope that was helpful.
Hey thanks, some of this stuff looks more succinct. Here are some interesting updates and thoughts:
You gain proficiency in weapons with the Thrown property.
Improvised Weapons don't have the Thrown property, so I don't think they would be included in either your case or mine. But, this version will include natural thrown weapons and eliminates doubt about whether nets are included. Maybe that's a bad thing?
When making a Ranged Attack by throwing a light weapon with the Thrown property, you can draw it with a free hand as part of the attack.
Simplified
Being within 5 feet of a hostile creature doesn’t impose disadvantage on your ranged attacks you make with thrown weapons.
This was actually intended to include any kind of ranged weapon. In the same way that Crossbow Expert includes ranged spell attacks. Unless you feel it makes the feat OP, I wanted to include that caveat for a more broad use of the feat. (edit: Looking at this again, this could be read to include thrown Improvised Weapons, which maybe isn't a bad thing, since TB doesn't give you this feature when throwing IW's, only gives you proficiency when doing so.)
When a hostile creature's movement provokes an opportunity attack from you, you can use your reaction to make one ranged weapon weapon attack against the provoking creature by throwing a light weapon with the Thrownproperty.
I specified this as making an OA with a light weapon, so that people couldn't make OA's with a Trident or Yklwa, especially when their reach is increased.
When you use the Attack action to attack with a one-handed weapon, you can use a bonus action to make a Ranged Attack by throwing a light weapon with the Thrownproperty.
In your version, making all weapons with Thrown "count as both melee or ranged" sounds SUPER dangerous. That means Nets can be melee weapons? Yklwa's can be ranged and be used for TWF? Which is before even considering how you make rulings on many other things if a weapon counts simultaneously as a Ranged Weapon and a Melee Weapon. (edit: My mistake, yklwa is not Light, wouldn't be used in TWF)
But THROWN weapons are classed as MELEE weapons, not ranged.
As IamSposta said, Weapons with the Thrown property are mostly Melee Weapons, but Nets, Darts and Boomerangs (now I have to see how Boomerangs are affected by this feat!) are Ranged Weapons.
Also there is an interesting distinction to be made between "a thrown weapon" and "a weapon with the Thrown property". Because, anything can be thrown. I could throw my bow at someone, and technically would be making a ranged attack with a thrown weapon. I believe it would be a ranged attack with an improvised weapon, though.
When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you're holding in the other hand. You don't add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus attack, unless that modifier is negative.
If either weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon, instead of making a melee attack with it.
So I think this is all you really need:
Thrown Weapon Expert
Prerequisite: Requires a Dexterity score of 13 or higher
Thanks to extensive practice with thrown weapons, you gain the following benefits:
You gain proficiency in all simple and martial weapons with the Thrown property. That prevents improvised weapons from being inadvertently included.
When making a Ranged Attack with a weapon that has the Thrown property, you can draw that weapon as part of the attack (You still need to have a free hand to do so).
Being within 5 feet of a hostile creature doesn’t impose disadvantage on your ranged attacks you make with thrown weapons. Makes it more theme specific and also prevents inadvertently including actual Ranged Weapons like bows, etc.
When a hostile creature's movement provokes an opportunity attack from you, you can use your reaction to make one ranged weapon weapon attack against the provoking creature if the weapon you attack with has the Thrown property.
Weapons with the thrown property also count as both ranged and melee weapons for you. Let’s this feat interact with Sharpshooter, but requires the Character to have both feats to use the -5 Attack/+10 Damage feature. And also allows interaction with Dual Wielder.
I hope that was helpful.
Hey thanks, some of this stuff looks more succinct. Here are some interesting updates and thoughts:
You gain proficiency in weapons with the Thrown property.
Improvised Weapons don't have the Thrown property, so I don't think they would be included in either your case or mine. But, this version will include natural thrown weapons and eliminates doubt about whether nets are included. Maybe that's a bad thing?
Net is a “martial ranged weapon,” why wouldn’t it have been included? And you can throw anything, even a greataxe, and it becomes a improvised weapon with 1d4 bludgeoning and thrown (20/60).
When making a Ranged Attack by throwing a light weapon with a thrown weapon with the Thrown property, you can draw it with a free hand as part of the attack.
Simplified
I say let them quickdraw Jevelins and nets, it’s “Thrown Weapon Specialist” not “Light and Thrown at the same time or you get nothing Weapon Specialist.”
Being within 5 feet of a hostile creature doesn’t impose disadvantage on your ranged attacks you make with thrown weapons.
This was actually intended to include any kind of ranged weapon. In the same way that Crossbow Expert includes ranged spell attacks. Unless you feel it makes the feat OP, I wanted to include that caveat for a more broad use of the feat. (edit: Looking at this again, this could be read to include thrown Improvised Weapons, which maybe isn't a bad thing, since TB doesn't give you this feature when throwing IW's, only gives you proficiency when doing so.)
Okay, if you intended it that way then no problemo. I was figuring that the restriction would balance letting them quickdraw tridents and yklwa.
When a hostile creature's movement provokes an opportunity attack from you, you can use your reaction to make one ranged weapon weapon attack against the provoking creature by throwing a light weapon with the Thrownproperty.
I specified this as making an OA with a light weapon, so that people couldn't make OA's with a Trident or Yklwa, especially when their reach is increased.
Trident and Yklwa are not reach weapons, so I want to make sure I am not misunderstanding you. Also, remember that not all attacks you can make as a reaction count as “Attacks of Opportunity,” and since the enemy would have to be within 5-10 feet of the PC, any range increase shouldn’t matter.
The only potential edge case (that I can think of) is a Bugbear’s Long Limbed feature, and that only works on their turn, so that wouldn’t really come up unless the other creature provokes an opportunity attack on the Bugbear PC’s turn, which is not the most common occurrence.
When you use the Attack action to attack with a one-handed weapon, you can use a bonus action to make a Ranged Attack by throwing a light weapon with the Thrownproperty.
In your version, making all weapons with Thrown "count as both melee or ranged" sounds SUPER dangerous. That means Nets can be melee weapons? Yklwa's can be ranged and be used for TWF? Which is before even considering how you make rulings on many other things if a weapon counts simultaneously as a Ranged Weapon and a Melee Weapon. (edit: My mistake, yklwa is not Light, wouldn't be used in TWF)
So a Yklwa counts as ranged. So what? So they can add sharpshooter to it. 🤷♂️ Not a big deal in my mind, but I could be wrong. The reason I worded it that way was so Sharpshooter could work with Daggers and other Melee Thrown weapons, and so you could use Two-Weapon Fighting with Ranged Thrown weapon’s like Darts, Nets, and Boomerangs. I mean, really. The Roman Gladiators specifically paired Trident and Net. There were specialists in that combo called a Retiarii.
Remember, just because something like Crossbow Expert or Sharpshooter says “ranged weapon attack” that does not mean it requires a “ranged weapon.” If you throw a a Dagger, Light Hammer, Handaxe, Spear, Trident, Javelin, or Yklwa; even though they are “melee weapon’s” you have still just made a “ranged weapon attack.” That’s why they have diff phrases for different things, some say “ranged/melee weapon attack” and other things say “attack with a ranged/melee weapon.”
You gain proficiency in weapons with the Thrown property.
Improvised Weapons don't have the Thrown property, so I don't think they would be included in either your case or mine. But, this version will include natural thrown weapons and eliminates doubt about whether nets are included. Maybe that's a bad thing?
Net is a “martial ranged weapon,” why wouldn’t it have been included? And you can throw anything, even a greataxe, and it becomes a improvised weapon with 1d4 bludgeoning and thrown (20/60).
Mentioned the Net only because it can be confused as a "Special Weapon", but you are correct, it is a Martial Weapon and is covered in either case. I don't see anything that says an Improvised Weapon gets the Thrown property. Only this "An improvised thrown weapon has a normal range of 20 feet and a long range of 60 feet." which, by my reading, just means that you are throwing an improvised weapon, not that it gains the Thrown property. I suppose the difference is in one version it opens the doors to anything present and future that has the Thrown property (Like potentially natural weapons or telekinesis?), and the other version limits it specifically to the Simple and Martial weapons list.
When making a Ranged Attack by throwing a light weapon with a thrown weapon with the Thrown property, you can draw it with a free hand as part of the attack.
Simplified
I say let them quickdraw Jevelins and nets, it’s “Thrown Weapon Specialist” not “Light and Thrown at the same time or you get nothing Weapon Specialist.”
I can get on board with this.
Being within 5 feet of a hostile creature doesn’t impose disadvantage on your ranged attacks you make with thrown weapons.
This was actually intended to include any kind of ranged weapon. In the same way that Crossbow Expert includes ranged spell attacks. Unless you feel it makes the feat OP, I wanted to include that caveat for a more broad use of the feat. (edit: Looking at this again, this could be read to include thrown Improvised Weapons, which maybe isn't a bad thing, since TB doesn't give you this feature when throwing IW's, only gives you proficiency when doing so.)
Okay, if you intended it that way then no problemo. I was figuring that the restriction would balance letting them quickdraw tridents and yklwa.
I had changed it to "thrown weapons" or "weapons with the Thrown property" but I think I'll change it back. i like the broad appeal of letting it be any ranged weapon attack, but not as broad as CBE's "ranged attack."
When a hostile creature's movement provokes an opportunity attack from you, you can use your reaction to make one ranged weapon attack against the provoking creature by throwing a light weapon with the Thrownproperty.
I specified this as making an OA with a light weapon, so that people couldn't make OA's with a Trident or Yklwa, especially when their reach is increased.
Trident and Yklwa are not reach weapons, so I want to make sure I am not misunderstanding you. Also, remember that not all attacks you can make as a reaction count as “Attacks of Opportunity,” and since the enemy would have to be within 5-10 feet of the PC, any range increase shouldn’t matter.
Yeah, my intent about Trident and Yklwa was trying to avoid exploit cases here where players can make OA's with high-powered weapons, not that they were reach weapons. Wrote that poorly, sorry. I think the intent to try to restrict which weapon can be used is a little overzealous. Why not throw a Trident as an OA?
The only potential edge case (that I can think of) is a Bugbear’s Long Limbed feature, and that only works on their turn, so that wouldn’t really come up unless the other creature provokes an opportunity attack on the Bugbear PC’s turn, which is not the most common occurrence.
You're right, I haven't found any rules that might extend a player's reach with a thrown weapon for a reaction. Even Enlarge or Polymorph likely wouldn't affect this feature. And then what's the real implication? You somehow get 15' reach with a thrown weapon, so you get to throw a Yklwa (1d8) on an OA. That doesn't seem that bad, when I think about it. Unless maybe you pile on a bunch of other Ranged Attack bonuses, Sharpshooter, Archery, maybe Superiority Dice, etc. I'm not sure I see any real problems with that vs taking an OA with GWM.
When you use the Attack action to attack with a one-handed weapon, you can use a bonus action to make a Ranged Attack by throwing a light weapon with the Thrownproperty.
In your version, making all weapons with Thrown "count as both melee or ranged" sounds SUPER dangerous. That means Nets can be melee weapons? Yklwa's can be ranged and be used for TWF? Which is before even considering how you make rulings on many other things if a weapon counts simultaneously as a Ranged Weapon and a Melee Weapon. (edit: My mistake, yklwa is not Light, wouldn't be used in TWF)
So a Yklwa counts as ranged. So what? So they can add sharpshooter to it. 🤷♂️ Not a big deal in my mind, but I could be wrong. The reason I worded it that way was so Sharpshooter could work with Daggers and other Melee Thrown weapons, and so you could use Two-Weapon Fighting with Ranged Thrown weapon’s like Darts, Nets, and Boomerangs. I mean, really. The Roman Gladiators specifically paired Trident and Net. There were specialists in that combo called a Retiarii.
I don't think the spirit of the change is a problem. I just think mechanically, it causes all kinds of edge cases where a weapon is both Ranged and Melee at the same time. Might be opening a can of worms. However, putting the rule back on TWF and basically making it work for you isn't a bad idea, especially when you can remove the need for an additional homebrew weapon. I'll think on this.
You gain proficiency in weapons with the Thrown property.
I'm now thinking this isn't necessary at all. Neither CBE or GWM give proficiency in their weapons. They assume you already know how to use them. If you don't already have access to a Net or Trident, then I suppose you just don't.
You gain proficiency in weapons with the Thrown property.
I'm now thinking this isn't necessary at all. Neither CBE or GWM give proficiency in their weapons. They assume you already know how to use them. If you don't already have access to a Net or Trident, then I suppose you just don't.
When you use the Attack action to attack with a one-handed weapon, you can use a bonus action to make a Ranged Attack by throwing a light weapon with the Thrownproperty.
In your version, making all weapons with Thrown "count as both melee or ranged" sounds SUPER dangerous. That means Nets can be melee weapons? Yklwa's can be ranged and be used for TWF? Which is before even considering how you make rulings on many other things if a weapon counts simultaneously as a Ranged Weapon and a Melee Weapon. (edit: My mistake, yklwa is not Light, wouldn't be used in TWF)
So a Yklwa counts as ranged. So what? So they can add sharpshooter to it. 🤷♂️ Not a big deal in my mind, but I could be wrong. The reason I worded it that way was so Sharpshooter could work with Daggers and other Melee Thrown weapons, and so you could use Two-Weapon Fighting with Ranged Thrown weapon’s like Darts, Nets, and Boomerangs. I mean, really. The Roman Gladiators specifically paired Trident and Net. There were specialists in that combo called a Retiarii.
I don't think the spirit of the change is a problem. I just think mechanically, it causes all kinds of edge cases where a weapon is both Ranged and Melee at the same time. Might be opening a can of worms. However, putting the rule back on TWF and basically making it work for you isn't a bad idea, especially when you can remove the need for an additional homebrew weapon. I'll think on this.
There might be a better way to word it that accomplishes a similar result?
Yeah, my intent about Trident and Yklwa was trying to avoid exploit cases here where players can make OA's with high-powered weapons, not that they were reach weapons. Wrote that poorly, sorry. I think the intent to try to restrict which weapon can be used is a little overzealous. Why not throw a Trident as an OA?
Right. I mean to “provoke an attack of opportunity” they must move out of your melee threat range anyway, right? So they could just stab them with the trident already. The only real benefit of throwing it instead is to take advantage of your quickdraw feature anyway.
Yeah, my intent about Trident and Yklwa was trying to avoid exploit cases here where players can make OA's with high-powered weapons, not that they were reach weapons. Wrote that poorly, sorry. I think the intent to try to restrict which weapon can be used is a little overzealous. Why not throw a Trident as an OA?
Right. I mean to “provoke an attack of opportunity” they must move out of your melee threat range anyway, right? So they could just stab them with the trident already. The only real benefit of throwing it instead is to take advantage of your quickdraw feature anyway.
It will also take advantage of Sharpshooter and Archery, but on the other hand a player could risk throwing away an expensive weapon.
I was trying to create a balanced "Thrown Expert" alternative to Crossbow Expert. The other homebrew feats I saw didn't quite encapsulate what I thought I wanted, nor did I feel they were balanced.
Known Drawbacks:
Goals:
Create a feat in the vein of Crossbow Expert where players can utilize thrown weapons, which deal less damage but are more versatile than crossbows, while still working alongside feats like Crossbow Expert, Sharpshooter, and Dual Wielder.
Concerns:
My biggest concern is that there was a very real mechanical reason that the designers didn't want Darts to be Light, nor be able to Two-Weapon-Fight with ranged weapons. There may be some ways I'm seeing that this can be exploited -- not just by a player using Archery and Sharpshooter (which is already a thing with CBE) -- but something else I'm not accounting for.
Any thoughts? Does anyone see some glaring problems here?
You can dual wield thrown weapons,as they are melee first. Also, dex helps no-one unless it's daggers. Throwing knives are redundant, as you have to have proficiency with martial weapons to have them, and are exactly the same as daggers. Although I like the concept, its easier to play test than ask, as you can solve your problems with people you know. I like the idea, but it needs some refining.
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Hey, I appreciate the reply! So, yes, you can use daggers for TWF and throw them, but you're still making a ranged attack with a melee weapon. This feat effectively expands TWF to include Ranged Weapons, as long as they're Light and Thrown (so basically, just adds Throwing Knives) --- It's a variation on the feature of Firearm Specialist, but for Thrown weapons. This allows players to add Ranged Weapon bonuses to the TWF attack roll. This Feat would be for characters to specialize in Ranged Weapons with the Thrown property.
I don't think Throwing Knives are redundant. The Feat gives you proficiency with all weapons that have the Thrown property, which includes Throwing Knives. They aren't the same as daggers, as they are Ranged weapons (Daggers are Melee) and aren't Finesse, so they can't be used with STR bonuses. They are basically halfway between a Dart and a Dagger.
I fully agree that playtesting is the best feedback! I'll be trying it out with a DM in the next few weeks.
But THROWN weapons are classed as MELEE weapons, not ranged.
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Not entirely, most of them: Dagger, Handaxe, Light Hammer, Javelin, Spear, Trident, and Yklwa are all melee weapons with the thrown property? Only dagger has finesse if I recall, so it is the only one that can be used with either Str or Dex, the others must all use Str. However, the Dart (and Boomerang and Net) is specifically a ranged weapon, and only because it has the finesse property, it uses either Dex and Str.
What the OP is doing, is basically taking a Dart, and dropping finesse, and adding light.
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Ok, thanks sposta, as that helped me understand it more. I think it is op in some situations, and in others isn't. Maybe add a level perquisite, like 5th it higher? By then it is an option, but won't be the only one worth choosing, as most martial classes get extra attack, and Spellcasters get 3rd level spells.
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Hokay, here goes....
A good chunk of your feat is unnecessary and redundant and here’s why: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/combat#TwoWeaponFighting
So I think this is all you really need:
I hope that was helpful.
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That makes sense, and is good. I think you've hit the nail on the head.
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I updated it, refresh your page. And look again.
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Yep, I still like it. Looks good. All it needs now is some play testing.
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Hey thanks, some of this stuff looks more succinct. Here are some interesting updates and thoughts:
and be used for TWF? Which is before even considering how you make rulings on many other things if a weapon counts simultaneously as a Ranged Weapon and a Melee Weapon. (edit: My mistake, yklwa is not Light, wouldn't be used in TWF)As IamSposta said, Weapons with the Thrown property are mostly Melee Weapons, but Nets, Darts and Boomerangs (now I have to see how Boomerangs are affected by this feat!) are Ranged Weapons.
Also there is an interesting distinction to be made between "a thrown weapon" and "a weapon with the Thrown property". Because, anything can be thrown. I could throw my bow at someone, and technically would be making a ranged attack with a thrown weapon. I believe it would be a ranged attack with an improvised weapon, though.
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Mentioned the Net only because it can be confused as a "Special Weapon", but you are correct, it is a Martial Weapon and is covered in either case. I don't see anything that says an Improvised Weapon gets the Thrown property. Only this "An improvised thrown weapon has a normal range of 20 feet and a long range of 60 feet." which, by my reading, just means that you are throwing an improvised weapon, not that it gains the Thrown property. I suppose the difference is in one version it opens the doors to anything present and future that has the Thrown property (Like potentially natural weapons or telekinesis?), and the other version limits it specifically to the Simple and Martial weapons list.
I can get on board with this.
I had changed it to "thrown weapons" or "weapons with the Thrown property" but I think I'll change it back. i like the broad appeal of letting it be any ranged weapon attack, but not as broad as CBE's "ranged attack."
Yeah, my intent about Trident and Yklwa was trying to avoid exploit cases here where players can make OA's with high-powered weapons, not that they were reach weapons. Wrote that poorly, sorry. I think the intent to try to restrict which weapon can be used is a little overzealous. Why not throw a Trident as an OA?
You're right, I haven't found any rules that might extend a player's reach with a thrown weapon for a reaction. Even Enlarge or Polymorph likely wouldn't affect this feature. And then what's the real implication? You somehow get 15' reach with a thrown weapon, so you get to throw a Yklwa (1d8) on an OA. That doesn't seem that bad, when I think about it. Unless maybe you pile on a bunch of other Ranged Attack bonuses, Sharpshooter, Archery, maybe Superiority Dice, etc. I'm not sure I see any real problems with that vs taking an OA with GWM.
I don't think the spirit of the change is a problem. I just think mechanically, it causes all kinds of edge cases where a weapon is both Ranged and Melee at the same time. Might be opening a can of worms. However, putting the rule back on TWF and basically making it work for you isn't a bad idea, especially when you can remove the need for an additional homebrew weapon. I'll think on this.
I'm now thinking this isn't necessary at all. Neither CBE or GWM give proficiency in their weapons. They assume you already know how to use them. If you don't already have access to a Net or Trident, then I suppose you just don't.
Might be right.
There might be a better way to word it that accomplishes a similar result?
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Right. I mean to “provoke an attack of opportunity” they must move out of your melee threat range anyway, right? So they could just stab them with the trident already. The only real benefit of throwing it instead is to take advantage of your quickdraw feature anyway.
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It will also take advantage of Sharpshooter and Archery, but on the other hand a player could risk throwing away an expensive weapon.
I hadn’t thought of that.
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