Hello all! I'm just getting into DnD after having wanted to for many years. I'm still learning about the game and about character creation, so I don't really know all the rules, but anyways...

I have a question. Probably a dumb question. I want to make a paladin that follows the Oath of Vengeance, but i want to twist him in a way that I'm not sure I'm allowed to...

I want to make it so that he is so caught up in his own desire for vengeance that he's not actually good... he abandons the righteous path and follows a more chaotic deity, believing that the gods had abandoned him when his family and clan were slaughtered. He is so caught up in his lust for revenge that he would leave innocents to die or even sacrifice them himself if it meant he got one step closer to getting his revenge.

Like a Fallen Paladin or a Dark Paladin. I don't suppose that is something that can be done?

What you’re describing doesn’t have to be fallen, per se. There are no alignment restrictions, so bring chaotic isn’t an issue. All that really matters is that you uphold your oaths. What you’re describing is actually a fairly common take on a vengeance pally. Just work it out with your DM.

A big thing thing to keep in mind is that in D&D, you’re part of a team. The angry, edgy guy often doesn’t play well with others and can quickly become annoying to the other players. So, just be aware of that and try to avoid that trap.

Yeah, definitely don't want to annoy other players lol

I imagine him as a cold and ruthless sort of man, killing whoever gets in his way and helping those who can help him reach his own goals. "Help them to help myself", or to garner favors. Not exactly a pleasant companion, but not rude just for the sake of it. He can work well with others to further his goals.

Does that make sense?

Honestly this is really my first character (technically...been planning it out for awhile, just now trying to put him on paper), so I don't really know yet what works and what doesn't. Don't even have a group yet since I just moved a couple weeks ago

Well. First thing you should start with a group. Some DMs may ban some classes, subclasses, races, etc. And a session 0 may also bring to light other things. You really need to fit the character into the campaign world, and can’t necessarily assume it will work in every campaign.

So this is really the sort of conversation you need to have with your table, and take it from there.

“Seek revenge and you should dig two graves, one for yourself” There is much less twisting required for your Visio than you might think.

One of the fun things about Oath of Vengeance is you can basically still be any alignment you want. The only thing that matters is defeating your sworn enemy. The oath tenet that binds your behaviour a little strangely is Restitution:

Restitution. If my foes wreak ruin on the world, it is because I failed to stop them. I must help those harmed by their misdeeds.

But all this means is that you need to make amends to people who are harmed because you haven't stopped your sworn enemy. Everyone else? Grist for the mill if it comes to it.

The other tenets are all about the ruthless pursuit of your enemy, so you can be basically pick any alignment you like. To give a few examples:

• Lawful Good: Your sworn enemy is the greatest threat you know of, so stopping it is your top (and overriding) priority. This may mean you don't help others when you can, but the wrongs they suffer pale in comparison to what your sworn enemy might do if left unchecked.
• Neutral: Your vengeance isn't strictly personal; your sworn enemy upsets the balance/natural order and that cannot be allowed to continue.
• Chaotic Evil: All that matters is vengeance against your sworn enemy; you do not care how many innocents you have to kill, maim or torture to achieve that goal, you'll do whatever it takes, unlike those other weaklings who might let something as petty as morality get in their way.

You don't even have to play a character to the extremes, they can be a softer version of these; having difficulty with ignoring the lesser evils, or hiding their need for vengeance when prudent (as going too far might cause an obstruction to your progress if your party turns against you, guards are alerted etc.). Even chaotic evil doesn't want to be caught by the guards doing something they shouldn't (at least, not unless their sworn enemy is in the dungeon and getting taken there is the quickest way in 😈).

As other say, definitely discuss with your DM and group; a character that's too single minded may not be a good fit. You could also consider making the sworn enemy a group rather than a single specific target, in which case you can play your vengeance more opportunistically. For example, if your character was wronged by a particular group of mages, then you might be compelled to go after any reports of rogue mages you encounter in case it's a member of that group. Another way to make the vengeance less urgent is to have a specific enemy with no trail, i.e- you don't currently have any leads to follow and are mostly just looking for clues and searching for possible contacts at the start of the campaign, as this leaves your DM free to give you a lead later on that you must follow.

I like that~.

I tweaked him a bit so he's more like a crusading paladin than a narrow minded zealot. He will do anything to get his revenge, but he's not so single minded as to only take the path of least resistance. He's willing to play the long game. He will help another if it ultimately helps himself, he will play his cards close and wait for that perfect moment to go all in, etc. He is smart enough to follow along, as long as he knows the path will eventually end in him getting what he wants.

and iuts funny you bring up the Sworn enemy, cuz I was trying to narrow down who or what group that is. I was originally thinking anyone connected to the Divine Gods or the Good Gods (Any agents of the Light), but then I realized that would include some players' characters as well, as Paladins working for good would fit that bill, so I figured that couldn't work. I then just figured that generalizing all Celestial type enemies as the sworn enemy would work. But I dont know for sure. What are your thoughts on this?

As for a DM, well...I haven't found a group yet, tbh. I only recently moved to my current residence, so I havent had the chance to look yet. ^^

Also Id like to thank all of you for your input. I appreciate the feedback and advice. Im pretty new to DnD so anything to help me along is greatly appreciated ^^

An oath against a god is a bit much, since you’ll never be able to succeed, unless the DM pretty makes that the centerpiece of the campaign. And someone who was screwed over by the gods screams “chosen one” story, which doesn’t work in D&D, the whole party is the star, not just one character.
The oath should come from your character’s past: who did something horrible to them, and what was it they did. That’s all you really need. And it’s a perfect example of something to work out with your DM. If you leave it more open, you and your DM can slot in something that was already planned to be a bad guy in the campaign. That makes it easier on the DM, which makes it more fun for you, since your character’s story will be more tightly knit into the overall story. Like how inigo Montoya had his own reason for storming the same castle as Wesley. They had different targets in the same place, so it was natural for them to work together, but hey each got their own character arc.

I mean an oath against a god could work, as the DM doesn't actually have to provide you with the opportunity to succeed (the end of the campaign/epilogue could even be your character starting a final fight that they cannot win); during the campaign proper I'd expect it to manifest as the paladin going after servants of the god, trying to learn potential weaknesses and so-on (e.g- was the god always a god, could there be something from their past that can draw them into a trap, rival gods you could ally with to help you etc.). In that way it could work for a character where you want to play vengeance, but it doesn't need to be achieved during the campaign unless it somehow fits with what the DM wants to do.

Swearing vengeance against all celestials I'm a little more unsure of; I mean, an enraged character could absolutely swear vengeance against an entire category of beings even if a smaller group were the ones actually responsible for whatever happened to them, but there's a risk of having the opposite problem (the vengeance is too broad). What if the DM would like to have a celestial help the party out at some point in the campaign, are you going to try and kill it? There is some wiggle room with the oaths in that while you should always strive towards them, as long as you don't actively go against them you should still be okay, for example stopping a lesser threat may not be encouraged by your oath, but if you think it'll help you to fulfil it long term then it's fine. Likewise not killing one celestial might present you an opportunity to learn more about them, make a contact you can exploit later etc. (i.e- help you to get vengeance against more of them another time).

Personally I'd go more along the lines of "servants of Lathander" or something similar, as it can include some celestials if you encounter them, but also includes mortal followers and such, and provides more of a focus for why you want vengeance (what did Lathander or his servants do specifically that has caused you to swear vengeance)? This will make it easier for your DM to work something into the campaign, and your goal could still be to hurt a god, while attacking it directly is left open ended. It could be interesting if a party member is a follower of Lathander, because you could be using them to get to others, though how you get vengeance against fellow servants without alerting them would be a challenge, unless your goal is to turn them against each other. If it's an early D&D game for you I'd probably go for servants of a god with no connection to your group as it'll keep things simpler for all involved, and discuss with your DM how frequently you want it to be an important element (do you want them to sprinkle opportunities in front of you here and there, or do you want to occasionally push for opportunities by seeking out shrines/temples and such)?

Also I have nothing against Lathander, it's just one of the few gods I can remember the name (and spelling) of; the forgotten realms wiki is good if you want to find more options, though fair warning there are a lot of options to choose from. If you have a particular idea in mind for what a god (or their followers) might have done to cause you to swear vengeance then I may be able to help narrow down some possibilities or a place to start, as there are pages for gods organised by domain, alignment etc.

Alright, good point. I wouldn't say he thinks he's a chosen one or anything like that. He just happens to be the only survivor of his clan that he knows of. But yeah, i see the point.

Maybe a group of marauders following a specific deity destroy his clan?

Either way I'll put more thought into it