I'm playing a Custom Lineage (Elf) Gloomstalker on my first campaign (Rime of the Frostmaiden). I'm now "officially" a Gloomstalker, having just reached level 3 and already taken advantage of the Dread Ambusher feature... just WOW... but not of Umbral sight yet. I have the sharpshooter feat and plan on getting elven accuracy at level 4 (my DM allows it even if I'm not officially an elf... but I lose the other features of the race as well). I'm planning on getting to level 5 for the extra attack but after that, I'm not sure where to take my GS to... I know it keeps getting good stuff, but I'm wondering if a dip in another class could be more beneficial to my party (a mystic, a fighter/battle master and a moon druid). I'm considering these options and I'd like to know what you think of them :
- Twlight cleric : to get healing spells, cleric cantrips, dark vision (super-extended) and the ability to share that darkvision with my allies.
- War domain cleric : to get healing spells, cleric cantrips, the ability to attack again as a bonus action (after I've cast HM) 3 times and if I go further, a one time per short rest +10 on an attack roll to guarantee a sharpshooter hit when the dice are low
- Forge cleric : to get healing spells, cleric cantrips and a +1 magic weapon/armor
- Fighter : to get an extra fighting style (close-quarter shooter for a +1 ranged and ignoring disadvantage at short range) and if I go further... action surge and even further... subclass coolness
- Rogue : to get proficiency in skills I'm not proficient in now (ex. history, religion, arcana, ...), and mainly sneak attack
- Monk : not considered for now but...
Of course, everthing depends on the needs the campaign brings forth and the choices of my allies regarding their character progression in order to keep the party consistent. Still, I'm wondering if I'm missing something, if my options seem viable considering I do not plan to go "full damage"... I plan on being useful and having a good time.
I'm playing a Custom Lineage (Elf) Gloomstalker on my first campaign (Rime of the Frostmaiden).
This doesn't exist. Custom lineages aren't elves and elves aren't custom lineages.
I'm now "officially" a Gloomstalker, having just reached level 3 and already taken advantage of the Dread Ambusher feature... just WOW... but not of Umbral sight yet. I have the sharpshooter feat and plan on getting elven accuracy at level 4 (my DM allows it even if I'm not officially an elf... but I lose the other features of the race as well).
That's extremely powerful!
I'm planning on getting to level 5 for the extra attack but after that, I'm not sure where to take my GS to... I know it keeps getting good stuff, but I'm wondering if a dip in another class could be more beneficial to my party (a mystic, a fighter/battle master and a moon druid). I'm considering these options and I'd like to know what you think of them :
I have no idea what a mystic is, but I've heard it's a UA class that's more powerful than anything else in the game, so I'm assuming it doesn't need any help doing anything. Is your battle master more melee or ranged?
- Twlight cleric : to get healing spells, cleric cantrips, dark vision (super-extended) and the ability to share that darkvision with my allies.
You already have extended darkvision at 90 feet, so this has somewhat limited utility. If you wanted to go in this direction, a 1-dip in Peace Cleric will do wonders to keep your party members alive and your enemies dead.
- War domain cleric : to get healing spells, cleric cantrips, the ability to attack again as a bonus action (after I've cast HM) 3 times and if I go further, a one time per short rest +10 on an attack roll to guarantee a sharpshooter hit when the dice are low
No, this is very bad. Putting aside the fact that you probably have much more Dex than Wis, even with Wis mod +5 the War domain provides a very weak benefit of 5 bonus action attacks per day.
- Forge cleric : to get healing spells, cleric cantrips and a +1 magic weapon/armor
This isn't as bad as War, but it's not huge.
- Fighter : to get an extra fighting style (close-quarter shooter for a +1 ranged and ignoring disadvantage at short range) and if I go further... action surge and even further... subclass coolness
CQS is more UA content, right? I have no idea how it works, but a Gloom Stalker/Battle Master is the core of one of the most popular, most damaging builds in the game, in terms of burst/nova damage. If you're going to do this, don't take Gloom Stalker 5 unless you're after L2 Ranger spells - that can be what you're after, but since the EA abilities overlap without any stacking, you "waste" some growth doing this - or if you know you want to stop at Battle Master 4 at the latest, for the same reasons the other way.
- Rogue : to get proficiency in skills I'm not proficient in now (ex. history, religion, arcana, ...), and mainly sneak attack
Yes, also popular. Rogue has poor synergy if you lean too hard into it because its scaling with Extra Attack is weird, but the build I mentioned earlier is Battle Master 11/Gloom Stalker 3/ Assassin 3, with the remaining 3 levels assigned based on ASI and spellcasting needs. Assassin is a poorly designed Rogue subclass precisely because its synergy is maximized with something like Gloom Stalker or Battle Master rather than Rogue.
Of course, everthing depends on the needs the campaign brings forth and the choices of my allies regarding their character progression in order to keep the party consistent. Still, I'm wondering if I'm missing something, if my options seem viable considering I do not plan to go "full damage"... I plan on being useful and having a good time.
Fighter is for hardcore damage, make no mistake, and Rogue supports that while also giving you some skill utility. If you want more utility, Peace Cleric is unparalleled for a 1-dip.
Thanks for your input! I wasn't sure about the peace cleric, simply because, as a gloomstalker, I'm not sure about hanging 30' from my teamates in daylight, where I'm open to blows. The class seems awesome, but I'm not sure a ranger gloomstalker can stay near his allies.
War/Forge clerics : thanks for your comments... I'll probably drop these options then
Our fighter is a human battle master wielding a greataxe (great weapon master).
Close Quarters shooter negates the disadvantage you get for attacking "ranged" when at 5 ft, and it adds a +1 to all ranged attacks... interesting!
I was planning on going gloomstalker 5 but your comment got me thinking... I realized that extra attacks (5th level features) don't stack so going fighter 5 wouldn't give me a third attack... but a Gloomstalker 4 would give me elven accuracy... should I get it now or wait 4 additional levels of fighter?
For your information, I won't go up to Fighter 11/Ranger 3/... This campaign shoud go up to level 11-12... I don't know how to split my levels/ASI(feats)... still pondering over it!
I just finished running through Rime with a Gloom Stalker/Arcana Cleric spear and shield Ranger.
I went 1 level of Arcana Cleric at level 4 and then didn't add to it until level 10. I used it for: 1. Chill Touch as a wisdom based cantrip instead of using archery and complicating my hands. I could always put the spear away and just blast with chill touch. 2. Bless. Bless is better than Hunter's Mark when you can't get into melee in round 1. With a Gloom usually you can, but sometimes you start too far away, or you can't see them. When this happens cast bless on you and your two favorite party members and then just hit all the time. The saving throw boost will eventually help as well. Some might say the cleric should cast it, but very quickly the cleric stops because they have better things to do. A Ranger for a very long time has just Hunter's Mark competing for your concentration, and because you boost two allies, Bless is better. If you happen to go sharpshooter or GWF this is even more important. 3. Healing. Healing word was clutch a couple of times in the game. Absolutely worth it. And was necessary to keep party alive before 5th level. 4. Prepared casting. The ability to swap in and swap out cleric spells daily made living with spells known on the Ranger tolerable.
Negatives: Waiting an extra level for extra attack. It was bad. Super bad. Horrible experience. Knowing you should have extra attack and not having it for 1 level was the worst level I had.
Overall: The level of cleric was immediately important. It simplified my character's hands for managing different weapons/encounters. Moreover he extra healing saved party members repeatedly for the next few levels. The one level waiting for extra attack was bad though, but characters would have died if I hadn't made the move.
Personally I find that Gloomstalker 5/ Scout (rogue) x is powerful combo. you get expertise in stealth and nature plus sneak attack. While you can only get sneak attack 1/ turn, with dread ambusher you have four chances to get that sneak attack damage in. Add in sharpshooter and elven accuracy, and you have a very powerful (DPR) character.
I might consider a druid MC with a ranger for some utility (wild shape uses) and way more spells and slots. A wildfire druid gets a ton of utility out of their wildfire spirit, plus you get 2 full spellcaster levels with 4-7 more known spells from a similar list.
Since you have taken the custom lineage you are not an elf, and since you are not an elf you are ineligible for the Elven Accuracy feat. That’s the cost of taking a custom lineage.
You are a new player. If I were your DM I would strongly advise against any Multiclassing at all, especially as you are already playing a spellcaster. Multiclassing is already a little funky without Spellcasting getting involved. When Spellcasters multiclass it gets even funkier. Save the Multiclassing for your next PC after you’ve gotten the hang of things. As a straight Gloomstalker you are pretty much guaranteed to “be useful and have a good time.” If you multiclass without properly realizing how that will affect your character’s progression then you might very well accidentally end up less useful and frustrated. (Kinda like how you didn’t realize that using a custom lineage meant you could no longer take Elven Accuracy, only potentially worse.)
Avoid the Mystic like it’s trying to give you herpes. It was a gimongous nightmare for non multiclassed characters run by players with experience. (Not to mention it has been long dead and buried and will never see the light of day again, at least not in this edition).
Thanks for the advice! In fact, I was fully aware custom lineage made me ineligle for the elven accuracy feat following RAW but my DM accepted nonetheless... it may turn out to be overpowered to be honest, thus the idea of not going for max damage since I'll already be pretty strong.
Indeed, for my first character, I may simply go GS all the way... that was the original plan.
For the mystic... you made my day! Never fear, I never considered this character for multiclass, it's just that one member of our party is a Bugbear mystic... cool up to now but I fear it will reach its zenith very soon and have a hard time following... but the guy playing it is so cool... voicing that Bugbear so "eloquently" lol
Personally I find that Gloomstalker 5/ Scout (rogue) x is powerful combo. you get expertise in stealth and nature plus sneak attack. While you can only get sneak attack 1/ turn, with dread ambusher you have four chances to get that sneak attack damage in. Add in sharpshooter and elven accuracy, and you have a very powerful (DPR) character.
Considering the rogue multiclass but my fear is what I'll get out of this is pure damage and a few skill... not sure, still pondering. Thanks!
So, I'd recommend fighter because action surge has incredible synergy with dread ambusher (6 attacks at lvl 5!)
Also, in RoTFM, you're in darkness about 22/24 hours of the day. This means that you'll more than likely get to use your invisibility feature a lot. This also means Skulker is a great choice in this campaign.
So, I'd recommend fighter because action surge has incredible synergy with dread ambusher (6 attacks at lvl 5!)
Also, in RoTFM, you're in darkness about 22/24 hours of the day. This means that you'll more than likely get to use your invisibility feature a lot. This also means Skulker is a great choice in this campaign.
6 attacks at level 5? How do you get to this so fast?
Base 1 + GS/DreadAmbusher 1 + Action surge 1 + Extra attack 1 (being a level 5 fighter)... where do the other 2 come from?... keeping in mind I use a longbow and not a hand crossbow...
Also, with your second comment, I realize my DM doesn't consider the 22/24 darkness... he plays it like there was daylight from 7 to 6. I chose a gloomstalker specifically because I knew we were playing in an arctic environment and I don't know how to tell him without sounding like someone who wants to take too much place...
So, I'd recommend fighter because action surge has incredible synergy with dread ambusher (6 attacks at lvl 5!)
Also, in RoTFM, you're in darkness about 22/24 hours of the day. This means that you'll more than likely get to use your invisibility feature a lot. This also means Skulker is a great choice in this campaign.
6 attacks at level 5? How do you get to this so fast?
Base 1 + GS/DreadAmbusher 1 + Action surge 1 + Extra attack 1 (being a level 5 fighter)... where do the other 2 come from?... keeping in mind I use a longbow and not a hand crossbow...
Also, with your second comment, I realize my DM doesn't consider the 22/24 darkness... he plays it like there was daylight from 7 to 6. I chose a gloomstalker specifically because I knew we were playing in an arctic environment and I don't know how to tell him without sounding like someone who wants to take too much place...
Thanks!
Oh my bad, I just read the extra attack feature... it means that when I take the "attack" action, I get an additional attack... so it means :
Isn't the Gloom Stalker subclass of the Ranger good enough?
I could be wrong but wizards, sorcerers, druids, and clerics are good at what they do for a reason... mystical stuff is why we bring them along in a campaign. Barbarians, fighters, and paladins are good at what they do (kicking butt)...let them do what they do best. And rangers as well as rogues have a certain set of skills and strengths... and they play a specific roll in helping the whole group achieve the overall goal.
Multiclassing is cool. Subclasses are cool too. But it's not necessary to do both.
Ah, it sorta depends. I mean all of the XgtE rangers are quite frontloaded to make up for the perceived lack of power of the PHB class. Shadowy Dodge (12) isn't a required class feature, and Stalker's Flurry (15) is less useful the more you hit. These are features that you can live without, and even the 7th level feature, Iron Mind, is one that doesn't directly help you be better at martial ability or casting. The ranger base class doesn't add all that much unless you're playing with Tasha's, then there are some cool things up to about level 10.
Really, after level 3, a gloomstalker has most of what make s them a gloomstalker and by 5 they have most of what makes them a decent ranger. Even with Tasha's, after about level 10, you're not getting all that much by taking more levels in ranger. In games where you will end somewhere from 11-14, you probably have a couple of levels to do something else if you want.
Ah, it sorta depends. I mean all of the XgtE rangers are quite frontloaded to make up for the perceived lack of power of the PHB class. Shadowy Dodge (12) isn't a required class feature, and Stalker's Flurry (15) is less useful the more you hit. These are features that you can live without, and even the 7th level feature, Iron Mind, is one that doesn't directly help you be better at martial ability or casting. The ranger base class doesn't add all that much unless you're playing with Tasha's, then there are some cool things up to about level 10.
Really, after level 3, a gloomstalker has most of what make s them a gloomstalker and by 5 they have most of what makes them a decent ranger. Even with Tasha's, after about level 10, you're not getting all that much by taking more levels in ranger. In games where you will end somewhere from 11-14, you probably have a couple of levels to do something else if you want.
I see what you mean, but I wouldn't be so quick to say a gloom stalker's later benefits aren't that good, and especially more so in a typical 1-11 campaign.
Like, iron mind is fantastic. For example, res:wis is recommended a lot to a fighter for its defensive properties, because they get more feats and so that their martial ability can continue unhindered due to fear/charm effects. A gloom stalker just gets it, and it's highly likely that they'll have high WIS, making it all the more potent as a defensive tool.
There's further reason to keep going down the mono-ranger path, because after iron mind, you're going to unlock your next ASI. After that, you unlock 3rd lvl spells. Conjure animals, fear, revivify, plant growth, water breathing, all are great spells with a lot of utility. At 10th you get nature's veil, so now you've got an easy method for generating advantage.
then, finally, Stalker's flurry is a very powerful ability, especially when paired with SS/GWM. In terms of DPR averages it's about as good as a fighter's 11th lvl extra attack and this is perfectly suitable and rewarding for a mini-capstone of sorts.
If you dip into fighter for action surge, and you're in a common 1-11 campaign, you won't see stalker's flurry nor nature's veil. Depending on when you dip, you may have to wait until the last level of a campaign to unlock those 3rd lvl spells. However, you get powerful burst damage since lvl 7 the earliest, and you've carried with you all that time. However, sometimes it's not very that advantageous to action surge at the first round of combat. It's trading consistency for burst, and neither option is right or wrong.
Multiclassing is a very powerful option on gloom stalker, but it's also equally powerful to NOT multiclass. It all depends on what you're looking to do with your character.
If you are ONLY looking at hiding and shooting a bow than multiclassing is the path you'll likely take. But ranger magic, level 11 damage bump, and the level 6, 7, 8, and 10 abilities (PHB or Tasha's) are what make you a ranger and not just a "sneaky arrow person".
Yes. Thanks for the reply from upthread. Bless and Hunter's Mark both use concentration. The point I was making was the Bless was better for damage than Hunter's Mark, and if you have a level of cleric it is a better choice in fights where you can either prep a round ahead or can't get into optimal position in the first round.
For a single character, the math on bless works out generally as a wash (bless is better with higher AC's and HM is better against lower AC), but when you add in the damage of the other two characters you bless it greatly exceeds HM. If you throw in a Great Weapon Master or Sharpshooter, then Bless is almost always better even on just a single character.
One standard objection is that bless is the cleric's job. I have noticed that once the cleric gets access to spirit guardians and higher level spells (Tier 2 and beyond), the cleric generally doesn't cast bless very often. Meanwhile the Ranger is usually concentrating on Hunter's Mark (eventually some of the Summon spells). The way bless morphs combat rolls and saves for the better can be transformative in a fight and well worth the Ranger preparing. I have played a 1 level dip into cleric before and I went with bless in about 1/4 to 1/3 of the combats and it was well worth it.
I'm currently a lvl5/3 Gloomstalker/Scout and I'm loving it. It's a group full of newer players so I've leaned heavy into the utility side than with damage but even with my 2 utility feats (Eldritch Adept-Devils Sight and Observant) and nothing to add to my combat capabilities.....I still deal good damage reliably. Not to mention I handle any skill situation that isn't Charisma based. I plan to run full Rogue levels from here.
An EA-Sharpshooter Gloom-Rogue would be insanely good in and out of combat. Assassin is an obvious choice but I just love Scouts so much, lol.
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Hi there,
I'm playing a Custom Lineage (Elf) Gloomstalker on my first campaign (Rime of the Frostmaiden). I'm now "officially" a Gloomstalker, having just reached level 3 and already taken advantage of the Dread Ambusher feature... just WOW... but not of Umbral sight yet. I have the sharpshooter feat and plan on getting elven accuracy at level 4 (my DM allows it even if I'm not officially an elf... but I lose the other features of the race as well). I'm planning on getting to level 5 for the extra attack but after that, I'm not sure where to take my GS to... I know it keeps getting good stuff, but I'm wondering if a dip in another class could be more beneficial to my party (a mystic, a fighter/battle master and a moon druid). I'm considering these options and I'd like to know what you think of them :
- Twlight cleric : to get healing spells, cleric cantrips, dark vision (super-extended) and the ability to share that darkvision with my allies.
- War domain cleric : to get healing spells, cleric cantrips, the ability to attack again as a bonus action (after I've cast HM) 3 times and if I go further, a one time per short rest +10 on an attack roll to guarantee a sharpshooter hit when the dice are low
- Forge cleric : to get healing spells, cleric cantrips and a +1 magic weapon/armor
- Fighter : to get an extra fighting style (close-quarter shooter for a +1 ranged and ignoring disadvantage at short range) and if I go further... action surge and even further... subclass coolness
- Rogue : to get proficiency in skills I'm not proficient in now (ex. history, religion, arcana, ...), and mainly sneak attack
- Monk : not considered for now but...
Of course, everthing depends on the needs the campaign brings forth and the choices of my allies regarding their character progression in order to keep the party consistent. Still, I'm wondering if I'm missing something, if my options seem viable considering I do not plan to go "full damage"... I plan on being useful and having a good time.
Thanks for your comments!
Christian
This doesn't exist. Custom lineages aren't elves and elves aren't custom lineages.
That's extremely powerful!
I have no idea what a mystic is, but I've heard it's a UA class that's more powerful than anything else in the game, so I'm assuming it doesn't need any help doing anything. Is your battle master more melee or ranged?
You already have extended darkvision at 90 feet, so this has somewhat limited utility. If you wanted to go in this direction, a 1-dip in Peace Cleric will do wonders to keep your party members alive and your enemies dead.
No, this is very bad. Putting aside the fact that you probably have much more Dex than Wis, even with Wis mod +5 the War domain provides a very weak benefit of 5 bonus action attacks per day.
This isn't as bad as War, but it's not huge.
CQS is more UA content, right? I have no idea how it works, but a Gloom Stalker/Battle Master is the core of one of the most popular, most damaging builds in the game, in terms of burst/nova damage. If you're going to do this, don't take Gloom Stalker 5 unless you're after L2 Ranger spells - that can be what you're after, but since the EA abilities overlap without any stacking, you "waste" some growth doing this - or if you know you want to stop at Battle Master 4 at the latest, for the same reasons the other way.
Yes, also popular. Rogue has poor synergy if you lean too hard into it because its scaling with Extra Attack is weird, but the build I mentioned earlier is Battle Master 11/Gloom Stalker 3/ Assassin 3, with the remaining 3 levels assigned based on ASI and spellcasting needs. Assassin is a poorly designed Rogue subclass precisely because its synergy is maximized with something like Gloom Stalker or Battle Master rather than Rogue.
Fighter is for hardcore damage, make no mistake, and Rogue supports that while also giving you some skill utility. If you want more utility, Peace Cleric is unparalleled for a 1-dip.
Thanks for your input! I wasn't sure about the peace cleric, simply because, as a gloomstalker, I'm not sure about hanging 30' from my teamates in daylight, where I'm open to blows. The class seems awesome, but I'm not sure a ranger gloomstalker can stay near his allies.
War/Forge clerics : thanks for your comments... I'll probably drop these options then
Our fighter is a human battle master wielding a greataxe (great weapon master).
Close Quarters shooter negates the disadvantage you get for attacking "ranged" when at 5 ft, and it adds a +1 to all ranged attacks... interesting!
I was planning on going gloomstalker 5 but your comment got me thinking... I realized that extra attacks (5th level features) don't stack so going fighter 5 wouldn't give me a third attack... but a Gloomstalker 4 would give me elven accuracy... should I get it now or wait 4 additional levels of fighter?
For your information, I won't go up to Fighter 11/Ranger 3/... This campaign shoud go up to level 11-12... I don't know how to split my levels/ASI(feats)... still pondering over it!
Thanks a lot!
I just finished running through Rime with a Gloom Stalker/Arcana Cleric spear and shield Ranger.
I went 1 level of Arcana Cleric at level 4 and then didn't add to it until level 10. I used it for:
1. Chill Touch as a wisdom based cantrip instead of using archery and complicating my hands. I could always put the spear away and just blast with chill touch.
2. Bless. Bless is better than Hunter's Mark when you can't get into melee in round 1. With a Gloom usually you can, but sometimes you start too far away, or you can't see them. When this happens cast bless on you and your two favorite party members and then just hit all the time. The saving throw boost will eventually help as well. Some might say the cleric should cast it, but very quickly the cleric stops because they have better things to do. A Ranger for a very long time has just Hunter's Mark competing for your concentration, and because you boost two allies, Bless is better. If you happen to go sharpshooter or GWF this is even more important.
3. Healing. Healing word was clutch a couple of times in the game. Absolutely worth it. And was necessary to keep party alive before 5th level.
4. Prepared casting. The ability to swap in and swap out cleric spells daily made living with spells known on the Ranger tolerable.
Negatives:
Waiting an extra level for extra attack. It was bad. Super bad. Horrible experience. Knowing you should have extra attack and not having it for 1 level was the worst level I had.
Overall:
The level of cleric was immediately important. It simplified my character's hands for managing different weapons/encounters. Moreover he extra healing saved party members repeatedly for the next few levels. The one level waiting for extra attack was bad though, but characters would have died if I hadn't made the move.
Personally I find that Gloomstalker 5/ Scout (rogue) x is powerful combo. you get expertise in stealth and nature plus sneak attack. While you can only get sneak attack 1/ turn, with dread ambusher you have four chances to get that sneak attack damage in. Add in sharpshooter and elven accuracy, and you have a very powerful (DPR) character.
I might consider a druid MC with a ranger for some utility (wild shape uses) and way more spells and slots. A wildfire druid gets a ton of utility out of their wildfire spirit, plus you get 2 full spellcaster levels with 4-7 more known spells from a similar list.
Three things:
As a straight Gloomstalker you are pretty much guaranteed to “be useful and have a good time.” If you multiclass without properly realizing how that will affect your character’s progression then you might very well accidentally end up less useful and frustrated. (Kinda like how you didn’t realize that using a custom lineage meant you could no longer take Elven Accuracy, only potentially worse.)
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Thanks for the advice! In fact, I was fully aware custom lineage made me ineligle for the elven accuracy feat following RAW but my DM accepted nonetheless... it may turn out to be overpowered to be honest, thus the idea of not going for max damage since I'll already be pretty strong.
Indeed, for my first character, I may simply go GS all the way... that was the original plan.
For the mystic... you made my day! Never fear, I never considered this character for multiclass, it's just that one member of our party is a Bugbear mystic... cool up to now but I fear it will reach its zenith very soon and have a hard time following... but the guy playing it is so cool... voicing that Bugbear so "eloquently" lol
Considering the rogue multiclass but my fear is what I'll get out of this is pure damage and a few skill... not sure, still pondering. Thanks!
So, I'd recommend fighter because action surge has incredible synergy with dread ambusher (6 attacks at lvl 5!)
Also, in RoTFM, you're in darkness about 22/24 hours of the day. This means that you'll more than likely get to use your invisibility feature a lot. This also means Skulker is a great choice in this campaign.
6 attacks at level 5? How do you get to this so fast?
Base 1 + GS/DreadAmbusher 1 + Action surge 1 + Extra attack 1 (being a level 5 fighter)... where do the other 2 come from?... keeping in mind I use a longbow and not a hand crossbow...
Also, with your second comment, I realize my DM doesn't consider the 22/24 darkness... he plays it like there was daylight from 7 to 6. I chose a gloomstalker specifically because I knew we were playing in an arctic environment and I don't know how to tell him without sounding like someone who wants to take too much place...
Thanks!
Oh my bad, I just read the extra attack feature... it means that when I take the "attack" action, I get an additional attack... so it means :
1 (base attack action) + 1 (extra attack feature) + 1 (dread ambusher feature) then Action surge so + 1 (action surge attack action) + 1 (extra attack feature) + 1 (dread ambusher feature)
GOSH! Didn't even realized it stacked this was when I chose my character!!!
Isn't the Gloom Stalker subclass of the Ranger good enough?
I could be wrong but wizards, sorcerers, druids, and clerics are good at what they do for a reason... mystical stuff is why we bring them along in a campaign. Barbarians, fighters, and paladins are good at what they do (kicking butt)...let them do what they do best. And rangers as well as rogues have a certain set of skills and strengths... and they play a specific roll in helping the whole group achieve the overall goal.
Multiclassing is cool. Subclasses are cool too. But it's not necessary to do both.
Ah, it sorta depends. I mean all of the XgtE rangers are quite frontloaded to make up for the perceived lack of power of the PHB class. Shadowy Dodge (12) isn't a required class feature, and Stalker's Flurry (15) is less useful the more you hit. These are features that you can live without, and even the 7th level feature, Iron Mind, is one that doesn't directly help you be better at martial ability or casting. The ranger base class doesn't add all that much unless you're playing with Tasha's, then there are some cool things up to about level 10.
Really, after level 3, a gloomstalker has most of what make s them a gloomstalker and by 5 they have most of what makes them a decent ranger. Even with Tasha's, after about level 10, you're not getting all that much by taking more levels in ranger. In games where you will end somewhere from 11-14, you probably have a couple of levels to do something else if you want.
I see what you mean, but I wouldn't be so quick to say a gloom stalker's later benefits aren't that good, and especially more so in a typical 1-11 campaign.
Like, iron mind is fantastic. For example, res:wis is recommended a lot to a fighter for its defensive properties, because they get more feats and so that their martial ability can continue unhindered due to fear/charm effects. A gloom stalker just gets it, and it's highly likely that they'll have high WIS, making it all the more potent as a defensive tool.
There's further reason to keep going down the mono-ranger path, because after iron mind, you're going to unlock your next ASI. After that, you unlock 3rd lvl spells. Conjure animals, fear, revivify, plant growth, water breathing, all are great spells with a lot of utility. At 10th you get nature's veil, so now you've got an easy method for generating advantage.
then, finally, Stalker's flurry is a very powerful ability, especially when paired with SS/GWM. In terms of DPR averages it's about as good as a fighter's 11th lvl extra attack and this is perfectly suitable and rewarding for a mini-capstone of sorts.
If you dip into fighter for action surge, and you're in a common 1-11 campaign, you won't see stalker's flurry nor nature's veil. Depending on when you dip, you may have to wait until the last level of a campaign to unlock those 3rd lvl spells. However, you get powerful burst damage since lvl 7 the earliest, and you've carried with you all that time. However, sometimes it's not very that advantageous to action surge at the first round of combat. It's trading consistency for burst, and neither option is right or wrong.
Multiclassing is a very powerful option on gloom stalker, but it's also equally powerful to NOT multiclass. It all depends on what you're looking to do with your character.
Yes to this!
If you are ONLY looking at hiding and shooting a bow than multiclassing is the path you'll likely take. But ranger magic, level 11 damage bump, and the level 6, 7, 8, and 10 abilities (PHB or Tasha's) are what make you a ranger and not just a "sneaky arrow person".
Bless and Hunters mark are competing for concentration.
Yes. Thanks for the reply from upthread. Bless and Hunter's Mark both use concentration. The point I was making was the Bless was better for damage than Hunter's Mark, and if you have a level of cleric it is a better choice in fights where you can either prep a round ahead or can't get into optimal position in the first round.
For a single character, the math on bless works out generally as a wash (bless is better with higher AC's and HM is better against lower AC), but when you add in the damage of the other two characters you bless it greatly exceeds HM. If you throw in a Great Weapon Master or Sharpshooter, then Bless is almost always better even on just a single character.
One standard objection is that bless is the cleric's job. I have noticed that once the cleric gets access to spirit guardians and higher level spells (Tier 2 and beyond), the cleric generally doesn't cast bless very often. Meanwhile the Ranger is usually concentrating on Hunter's Mark (eventually some of the Summon spells). The way bless morphs combat rolls and saves for the better can be transformative in a fight and well worth the Ranger preparing. I have played a 1 level dip into cleric before and I went with bless in about 1/4 to 1/3 of the combats and it was well worth it.
@elfdopE.
Good point about Bless being better for a team!
I'm currently a lvl5/3 Gloomstalker/Scout and I'm loving it. It's a group full of newer players so I've leaned heavy into the utility side than with damage but even with my 2 utility feats (Eldritch Adept-Devils Sight and Observant) and nothing to add to my combat capabilities.....I still deal good damage reliably. Not to mention I handle any skill situation that isn't Charisma based. I plan to run full Rogue levels from here.
An EA-Sharpshooter Gloom-Rogue would be insanely good in and out of combat. Assassin is an obvious choice but I just love Scouts so much, lol.