Provided my character has 2 actions on their turn (haste/action surge/etc...) can i cast a cantrip (like Eldritch blast) twice on my turn? I'm basically trying to figure out if the spell economy is around action/bonus action or if there are a set number of spells i can cast per turn, no matter what BS I cobble together?
Short answer, yes. Longer answer, yes, if the effect granting the extra action allows spellcasting (Action Surge would, Haste would not). You can Also quicken one to a bonus action if you are a sorcerer or have metamagics through a feat.
except for the bonus action spellcasting rule (which limits you to single action cantrips on turns you cast a bonus action spell on), you can cast as many spells as you have actions, so it is possible to cast two action spells (leveled or cantrip) and a reaction on one turn with something like action surge.
The spellcasting economy only applies if bonus actions are involved.
You can cast 2 fireballs with action surge. If you cast a bonus action spell like misty step, the only other spell you can cast is a cantrip with an action like eldritch blast. Though you could potentially quicken eldritch blast as a bonus action, cast it normally as an action, then action surge to cast it again.
My personal interpretation of the RAI (Read as Intended), you can only cast a single leveled spell (1st level or higher) on your turn.
Cantrips however, have no limit (So long as you have actions available to cast with).
This technically means you can cast an infinite number of cantrips, assuming you have an infinite number of actions.
Small note: Haste does not work for spell casting. It only allows you to use the Attack (One weapon attack), Dash, Disengage, Hide, or Use an Object actions. It works with Action Surge and Quickened Spells however.
thank you. I'm debating homebrewing haste to allow for bonus spells casts, but only at cantrip level... Make the spell a little better, but avoid support wizard making their caster friend be able to unload their entire spell list during the duration.
My personal interpretation of the RAI (Read as Intended), you can only cast a single leveled spell (1st level or higher) on your turn.
Cantrips however, have no limit (So long as you have actions available to cast with).
This technically means you can cast an infinite number of cantrips, assuming you have an infinite number of actions.
Just for clarification, both RAW and RAI clearly allows for multiple leveled spells during one turn. Being able to counterspell a counterspell is one of the examples used in the SAC.
Now if you want to change that rule for your games you are of course free to do so.
It is possible, in extreme cases, to cast 8 spells in a single round, including multiplpe leveled spells and multiple cantrips. (not counting Time Stop, which can do 6-12 depending on the d4)
The build is silly:
1 levels of Druid (Bonus action cantrips)
17 levels of Rogue (Thief) (extra full turn - including bonus action, AND resets reactions, granting you 3 in one round.)
2 levels Fighter (Action surge for an extra action)
As long as no bonus action spell is used, you shall be fine. Using a bonus action limits you to cantrip with a casting time of 1 action on the same turn.
I don't know where the extra reactions are coming from or what they mean by druid letting you bonus action cantrip, but the 17th level thief lets you take an extra turn in the first round of combat so you would get two actions out of that, plus use of your action surge giving you another. Your reaction reset on each of your turns so you would get an additional reaction that you could use if you were able to. I don't quite understand where the extra reaction comes from, perhaps a misunderstanding of how racial abilities work?
That would give you 3 actions, 2 bonus actions, and 2 reactions.
Assuming that you could consistently cast a cantrip as a bonus action then you could cast 7 spells in the first round of combat.
Since the Thief ability doesn't change what you can do in your turn, just gives you another turn (in the same way that waiting for your next slot in initiative does), I think it's probably introducing more confusion here than it's worth to the question of "can you cast 2 cantrips in one turn?".
As usual, paraphrasing these rules introduces more confusion than there is to be found in the very-short-and-straightforward section in Chapter 10 that describes the rule. But if that doesn't do it for you, there's also no less than two other threads on this same subject only a couple of lines down in this same forum, I'd recommend that anyone who is still confused reference them. But since this thread already exists, here's another attempt at explanation.
You can cast spells with whatever action the spell describes in its casting time, or with a different type of action if you have another feature (like Quickened Spell metamagic or Warcaster) that changes that casting time. A player can ordinarily take an action on their turn to cast a spell with a casting time of one action. Action Surge is a well-known ability that provides a second action, which can also be used to cast a spell with a casting time of one action. If something triggers your ability to cast a spell as a reaction, you can do that too on that same turn, even if you have or will also cast spells as actions. But bonus action spells are the fly in the ointment, if you cast a spell as a Bonus Action, the only other spell(s) that can be cast are CANTRIPS with a casting time of ONE ACTION. (debatable whether that is one cantrip with one action, or if it would allow two cantrips with two actions with Action Surge).
So, you can cast two Cantrips with two Actions (Action Surge). Or, two Cantrips, one with an Action and one with a Bonus Action (Quickened Spell). Or, three Cantrips, one with an Action, one with a second action (Action Surge), and a third with a Bonus Action (Quickened Spell). Or, four Cantrips, if you can somehow get someone to trigger a Reaction cantrip with Warcaster on your turn.
I'm not aware of any way to cast more than three or four cantrips in one turn. If you have a way of taking a second turn, good for you, but that doesn't change the limit of actions and spells per turn.
Even supposing this rule applies backwards (i.e. your GM is interpreting the fact that casting Healing Word prevents you from then casting Dissonant Whispers to also mean that casting Dissonant Whispers then prevents you from casting Healing Word, which isn't in the RAW above but is in the SAC - I provide that rule directly below), the rule is based on the casting time of the spell, not the casting time you use to cast it.
So if you walk up to someone and they use a Readied Action to run away, provoking an OA, you can use War Caster to cast Toll the Dead- a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action - as a reaction, but you haven't changed its casting time, so you've satisfied the rule above, and you can freely cast Healing Word, and these two spells can happen in any order. Contrast the wording on War Caster with the wording on the Quickened Spell metamagic, which actually does change the casting time of the spell in question.
What's debatable is whether or not the RAW above does work backwards or not - can you use your action to cast Dissonant Whispers to attempt to force an OA for Toll the Dead, then cast Healing Word? The SAC claims it works backwards, but this forum is rife with people that deny it is a rules source:
Does the rule on casting a bonus action spell apply when you take a bonus action granted by a spell?
The rule on casting a spell as a bonus action applies only on the turn you cast the spell. For example, spiritual weapon can be cast as a bonus action, and it lasts for 1 minute. On the turn you cast it, you can’t cast another spell before or after it, unless that spell is a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action. Until spiritual weapon ends, it gives you the option of controlling its spectral weapon as a bonus action. That bonus action does not involve casting a spell, despite the fact that it’s granted by a spell, so you can control the weapon and cast whatever spell you like on the same turn.
Provided my character has 2 actions on their turn (haste/action surge/etc...) can i cast a cantrip (like Eldritch blast) twice on my turn? I'm basically trying to figure out if the spell economy is around action/bonus action or if there are a set number of spells i can cast per turn, no matter what BS I cobble together?
Short answer, yes. Longer answer, yes, if the effect granting the extra action allows spellcasting (Action Surge would, Haste would not). You can Also quicken one to a bonus action if you are a sorcerer or have metamagics through a feat.
except for the bonus action spellcasting rule (which limits you to single action cantrips on turns you cast a bonus action spell on), you can cast as many spells as you have actions, so it is possible to cast two action spells (leveled or cantrip) and a reaction on one turn with something like action surge.
My personal interpretation of the RAI (Read as Intended), you can only cast a single leveled spell (1st level or higher) on your turn.
Cantrips however, have no limit (So long as you have actions available to cast with).
This technically means you can cast an infinite number of cantrips, assuming you have an infinite number of actions.
Small note: Haste does not work for spell casting. It only allows you to use the Attack (One weapon attack), Dash, Disengage, Hide, or Use an Object actions. It works with Action Surge and Quickened Spells however.
thank you. I'm debating homebrewing haste to allow for bonus spells casts, but only at cantrip level... Make the spell a little better, but avoid support wizard making their caster friend be able to unload their entire spell list during the duration.
Note: Haste doesn't let you cast 2 spells.
Altrazin Aghanes - Wizard/Fighter
Varpulis Windhowl - Fighter
Skolson Demjon - Cleric/Fighter
Just for clarification, both RAW and RAI clearly allows for multiple leveled spells during one turn. Being able to counterspell a counterspell is one of the examples used in the SAC.
Now if you want to change that rule for your games you are of course free to do so.
It is possible, in extreme cases, to cast 8 spells in a single round, including multiplpe leveled spells and multiple cantrips. (not counting Time Stop, which can do 6-12 depending on the d4)
The build is silly:
1 levels of Druid (Bonus action cantrips)
17 levels of Rogue (Thief) (extra full turn - including bonus action, AND resets reactions, granting you 3 in one round.)
2 levels Fighter (Action surge for an extra action)
PHB Tiefling race (Hellish Rebuke, reaction spell)
It uses reactions, Bonus Actions, as well as multiple regular actions, so to get the stupid 8 spells a round you need an enemy attacking you.
In addition it is sub-optimal. Among other things you are burning almost all your spell slots to do very very little.
Total of 2 bonus actions, 3 actions, and 3 reactions in a single round.
What?
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
As long as no bonus action spell is used, you shall be fine. Using a bonus action limits you to cantrip with a casting time of 1 action on the same turn.
I don't know where the extra reactions are coming from or what they mean by druid letting you bonus action cantrip, but the 17th level thief lets you take an extra turn in the first round of combat so you would get two actions out of that, plus use of your action surge giving you another. Your reaction reset on each of your turns so you would get an additional reaction that you could use if you were able to. I don't quite understand where the extra reaction comes from, perhaps a misunderstanding of how racial abilities work?
That would give you 3 actions, 2 bonus actions, and 2 reactions.
Assuming that you could consistently cast a cantrip as a bonus action then you could cast 7 spells in the first round of combat.
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Since the Thief ability doesn't change what you can do in your turn, just gives you another turn (in the same way that waiting for your next slot in initiative does), I think it's probably introducing more confusion here than it's worth to the question of "can you cast 2 cantrips in one turn?".
As usual, paraphrasing these rules introduces more confusion than there is to be found in the very-short-and-straightforward section in Chapter 10 that describes the rule. But if that doesn't do it for you, there's also no less than two other threads on this same subject only a couple of lines down in this same forum, I'd recommend that anyone who is still confused reference them. But since this thread already exists, here's another attempt at explanation.
You can cast spells with whatever action the spell describes in its casting time, or with a different type of action if you have another feature (like Quickened Spell metamagic or Warcaster) that changes that casting time. A player can ordinarily take an action on their turn to cast a spell with a casting time of one action. Action Surge is a well-known ability that provides a second action, which can also be used to cast a spell with a casting time of one action. If something triggers your ability to cast a spell as a reaction, you can do that too on that same turn, even if you have or will also cast spells as actions. But bonus action spells are the fly in the ointment, if you cast a spell as a Bonus Action, the only other spell(s) that can be cast are CANTRIPS with a casting time of ONE ACTION. (debatable whether that is one cantrip with one action, or if it would allow two cantrips with two actions with Action Surge).
So, you can cast two Cantrips with two Actions (Action Surge). Or, two Cantrips, one with an Action and one with a Bonus Action (Quickened Spell). Or, three Cantrips, one with an Action, one with a second action (Action Surge), and a third with a Bonus Action (Quickened Spell). Or, four Cantrips, if you can somehow get someone to trigger a Reaction cantrip with Warcaster on your turn.
I'm not aware of any way to cast more than three or four cantrips in one turn. If you have a way of taking a second turn, good for you, but that doesn't change the limit of actions and spells per turn.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
That is debatable since casting a spell with your bonus action prevents you from casting spells with your reaction until your turn ends.
You won't be able to use this one though as it is a leveled spell. And you can't mix leveled spells and bonus action casting.
No it doesn't.
Rule in question: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/spellcasting#CastingTime
Even supposing this rule applies backwards (i.e. your GM is interpreting the fact that casting Healing Word prevents you from then casting Dissonant Whispers to also mean that casting Dissonant Whispers then prevents you from casting Healing Word, which isn't in the RAW above but is in the SAC - I provide that rule directly below), the rule is based on the casting time of the spell, not the casting time you use to cast it.
So if you walk up to someone and they use a Readied Action to run away, provoking an OA, you can use War Caster to cast Toll the Dead- a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action - as a reaction, but you haven't changed its casting time, so you've satisfied the rule above, and you can freely cast Healing Word, and these two spells can happen in any order. Contrast the wording on War Caster with the wording on the Quickened Spell metamagic, which actually does change the casting time of the spell in question.
What's debatable is whether or not the RAW above does work backwards or not - can you use your action to cast Dissonant Whispers to attempt to force an OA for Toll the Dead, then cast Healing Word? The SAC claims it works backwards, but this forum is rife with people that deny it is a rules source:
Does the rule on casting a bonus action spell apply when you take a bonus action granted by a spell?
The rule on casting a spell as a bonus action applies only on the turn you cast the spell. For example, spiritual weapon can be cast as a bonus action, and it lasts for 1 minute. On the turn you cast it, you can’t cast another spell before or after it, unless that spell is a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action. Until spiritual weapon ends, it gives you the option of controlling its spectral weapon as a bonus action. That bonus action does not involve casting a spell, despite the fact that it’s granted by a spell, so you can control the weapon and cast whatever spell you like on the same turn.
See? Totally right, this is why attempts to paraphrase/reeexplain always fail :p
Three cantrips, that’s the cap, or two if you can really only cast “a cantrip” with a casting time of one action rather than cantripS.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.