Looks like Tasha's has breathed some life into the ranger! My question is can the companion be commanded as a bonus action to take the attack action? (And then on top of that does it mean you could command it to attack in the place of your attack and then commanded to attack again as a bonus action?)
My reason for asking is the wording states "unless you take a bonus action on your turn to command it to take another action. That action can be one in its stat block or some other action." The attack action is on the stat block and also falls under the "any other action" category in my mind.
My question is can the companion be commanded as a bonus action to take the attack action?
Yes.
(And then on top of that does it mean you could command it to attack in the place of your attack and then commanded to attack again as a bonus action?)
No. Like all creatures it only gets one action per turn unless some other rule says otherwise. Giving up an attack just gives you a bit more flexibility if you need your bonus action for something else (like casting a spell) and you're fine with taking the Attack action and commanding your companion to attack.
As a DM, I would be fine with a Ranger burning both an attack and a Bonus Action to allow the beast to attack twice in their stead. Even if it's not technically RAW.
The Primal Companion's damage is going to be comparable to the Ranger's at lower levels, but will lose value as magic items, buff spells, and resistances come into play. Being able to make the companion a primary resource, rather than a secondary one goes a long way toward satisfying the flavor of a Beast Master.
The Primal Companion's damage is going to be comparable to the Ranger's at lower levels, but will lose value as magic items, buff spells, and resistances come into play.
Not necessarily. Beast of the Land starts at 1d8 + 4 damage (which is equivalent to a longbow with 18 DEX) and the damage keeps going up with your proficiency bonus. The Charge trait also gives them an extra 1d6 and prone effect when engaging a new enemy, and the DC scales too.
By 7th level their damage is automatically magical so resistances stop being an issue, and Tasha's Cauldron added magic weapon to the Ranger spell list in case you really need to do something about damage resistances 2 levels early. At any rate, you can still try to knock enemies prone whether they resist their damage or not, or simply use the Help action.
By 11th level they're getting two 1d8 + 6 attacks instead of one, so you're looking at 4 attacks total without being limited to 1d6 light weapons and without having to invest in the Dual Wielder feat. Not a bad deal.
The Primal Companion's damage is going to be comparable to the Ranger's at lower levels, but will lose value as magic items, buff spells, and resistances come into play.
Not necessarily. Beast of the Land starts at 1d8 + 4 damage (which is equivalent to a longbow with 18 DEX) and the damage keeps going up with your proficiency bonus. The Charge trait also gives them an extra 1d6 and prone effect when engaging a new enemy, and the DC scales too.
By 7th level their damage is automatically magical so resistances stop being an issue, and Tasha's Cauldron added magic weapon to the Ranger spell list in case you really need to do something about damage resistances 2 levels early. At any rate, you can still try to knock enemies prone whether they resist their damage or not, or simply use the Help action.
By 11th level they're getting two 1d8 + 6 attacks instead of one, so you're looking at 4 attacks total without being limited to 1d6 light weapons and without having to invest in the Dual Wielder feat. Not a bad deal.
1) True, I was thinking that the Archery Fighting style granted +2 to damage like the Dueling style, which would put the longbow attack 9 levels ahead of the Beast of the Land.
2) The Charge trait only works after covering 20ft, so once the beast closes the distance, it is very unlikely to be able to use it twice in one round. The second attack is very likely to get neither the bonus damage, nor the prone chance.
3) Flying enemies, escarpments, crevasses, and fortifications will make the Beast of the Land struggle, and Beast of the Air will deal less damage and lacks the charge feature. So at those higher levels, having magical attacks may not be enough to compensate for the lack of reach.
4) True, getting multiattack at 11th level is pretty good. However, as long as the Beast master can only use multiattack once per turn, they would end up getting 4 attacks total either way.
1d8+2+4 is equivalent to a Longbow with 18 DEX and Bracers of Archery, so the damage difference for substituting one beast attack becomes a wash for very cheap. However, with Hunter's Mark, the Ranger would be able to get +1d6 damage via Extra Attack by skipping the extra Beast attack.
Between the Standard Beast Master and a Beast Master who can sacrifice one attack for one extra beast attack, it's pretty irrelevant. Having more options is always mechanically superior, but the change in balance is very small compared to the flavor benefits.
How exactly do you add this feature to your character sheet? I don't see it listed in the Optional Feature Manager, nor do I see Beast of the Land/Sea/Sky in the character sheet Extras, Manage Extras section.
Looks like Tasha's has breathed some life into the ranger! My question is can the companion be commanded as a bonus action to take the attack action? (And then on top of that does it mean you could command it to attack in the place of your attack and then commanded to attack again as a bonus action?)
My reason for asking is the wording states "unless you take a bonus action on your turn to command it to take another action. That action can be one in its stat block or some other action." The attack action is on the stat block and also falls under the "any other action" category in my mind.
I could of course be being completely stupid.
Thanks in advance!
I'm probably going to take some heat for saying this, as I have in another threat, but the answer is "no."
The ranger can use their Bonus Action to command their companion to take an action in their stat block or some other action. This tells us two things.
Each companion has an action, and these actions are attacks, but making those actions is not the same as making the Attack action.
They can take other actions besides those in their respective stat blocks, but they are not named.
If the intent was for the companion to be able to Attack using the ranger's Bonus Action, the sentence would say so. And the vagueness of the sentence should not be interpreted to mean any action. The 7th-level feature Exceptional Training specifically grants the ranger the ability to command their companion, with their Bonus Action, to take the Dash, Disengage, or Help action. There's no language to suggest this no longer applies. When in doubt, it's the DM's call. Personally
Then there's also the very next sentence to consider.
You can also sacrifice one of your attacks when you take the Attack action to command the beast to take the Attack action.
This also tells us two things.
This is the only explicit method of the companion taking the Attack action.
The use of the word "also" means this is distinct from the Bonus Action command and can, in fact, be used alongside it.
So, to sum up, the companion cannot take the Attack action at the ranger's Bonus Action command.
But they can use it alongside their normal Action. And this gets better with Bestial Fury at 11th-level. If you're a ranger with TWF, then you and the companion can each attempt two attacks. Any other ranger can still get in 4 attacks, total, but three come from the companion. And an archer with swift quiver can make up to 5 total attacks per turn, but this was always the case.
If the intent was for the companion to be able to Attack using the ranger's Bonus Action, the sentence would say so. And the vagueness of the sentence should not be interpreted to mean any action. The 7th-level feature Exceptional Training specifically grants the ranger the ability to command their companion, with their Bonus Action, to take the Dash, Disengage, or Help action. There's no language to suggest this no longer applies. When in doubt, it's the DM's call. Personally
Not necessarily. By not being specific, the feature left it open to the general rules for actions I combat (see link above). The intent of the primal companion feature was to make beast masters not suck by restricting basic actions to higher levels and bring it up to par with with newer pet classes at 3rd level. This does make half of the level 7th feature redundant with the new 3rd level feature.
Then there's also the very next sentence to consider.
You can also sacrifice one of your attacks when you take the Attack action to command the beast to take the Attack action.
This also tells us two things.
This is the only explicit method of the companion taking the Attack action.
The use of the word "also" means this is distinct from the Bonus Action command and can, in fact, be used alongside it.
This is the only specific mention, yes. It is also the only time action type is limited.
The word "also" means that this is another way to order an attack (as you could also command it to attack with a bonus action). It is not mentioned to able to take multiple actions per turn, so this does not supersede that rule.
So, to sum up, the companion cannot take the Attack action at the ranger's Bonus Action command.
But they can use it alongside their normal Action. And this gets better with Bestial Fury at 11th-level. If you're a ranger with TWF, then you and the companion can each attempt two attacks. Any other ranger can still get in 4 attacks, total, but three come from the companion. And an archer with swift quiver can make up to 5 total attacks per turn, but this was always the case.
The comment about Bestial Fury goes against your conclusion. It requires the companion to take the attack action, which according to you can only be done by giving up 1 of your own attacks. So either you or your companion can make 2 attacks, but not both. The only way to make 4 attacks according to your ruling is to make 1 yourself, give the beast 2 with your other attack and 1 with BA (1 you, 3 beast), but again, as this requires a creature to take 2 actions in 1 turn without a feature that allows that, it is not possible this way.
The companion's actions are only limited by the number of commands the ranger can give them. It was possible before, with just the PHB, for the ranger to use both Exceptional Training and order them to attack in one turn. There's no reason to think they cannot now.
The companion's actions are only limited by the number of commands the ranger can give them. It was possible before, with just the PHB, for the ranger to use both Exceptional Training and order them to attack in one turn. There's no reason to think they cannot now.
No that also would not have been allowed for the same reasons as now. Creatures only get 1 action unless something says otherwise.
The companion's actions are only limited by the number of commands the ranger can give them. It was possible before, with just the PHB, for the ranger to use both Exceptional Training and order them to attack in one turn. There's no reason to think they cannot now.
No that also would not have been allowed for the same reasons as now. Creatures only get 1 action unless something says otherwise.
The issue isn't what you think the companion is limited to. The ranger has no such restriction on the number of commands it can give its companion. Are you saying the ranger cannot issue multiple commands? Or are you saying that even if the ranger does the companion cannot follow through on them all?
The companion's actions are only limited by the number of commands the ranger can give them. It was possible before, with just the PHB, for the ranger to use both Exceptional Training and order them to attack in one turn. There's no reason to think they cannot now.
No that also would not have been allowed for the same reasons as now. Creatures only get 1 action unless something says otherwise.
The issue isn't what you think the companion is limited to. The ranger has no such restriction on the number of commands it can give its companion. Are you saying the ranger cannot issue multiple commands? Or are you saying that even if the ranger does the companion cannot follow through on them all?
The companion would not have been able to follow them all. It only has 1 action it can use.
The companion's actions are only limited by the number of commands the ranger can give them. It was possible before, with just the PHB, for the ranger to use both Exceptional Training and order them to attack in one turn. There's no reason to think they cannot now.
No that also would not have been allowed for the same reasons as now. Creatures only get 1 action unless something says otherwise.
The issue isn't what you think the companion is limited to. The ranger has no such restriction on the number of commands it can give its companion. Are you saying the ranger cannot issue multiple commands? Or are you saying that even if the ranger does the companion cannot follow through on them all?
The companion would not have been able to follow them all. It only has 1 action it can use.
So you're saying that even though the ranger can expressly give it multiple commands, it cannot follow through on all of them? The ranger can waste their turn?
So you're saying that even though the ranger can expressly give it multiple commands, it cannot follow through on all of them? The ranger can waste their turn?
Yes? (Sort of). I mean, the ranger can still make 1 attack and the companion will still follow one of the commands, so at worst you wasted a bonus action. It is useful having multiple ways to issue a command for flexibility with your own action economy.
It isn't like there aren't multiple other ways to waste part of your turn. Just don't do it if you don't want to.
We have a beastmaster ranger in our campaign, and she was struggling with the specifics of the primal companion, particularly having it roll through the Beyond 20 plugin. I just ended up building her a homebrew creature and added it to her character sheet. I will change its stats as she levels.
This is worded to imply it can take two actions as the exception to the general rule if the player sacrifices an attack and uses their bonus action to command
because of the usage of “also”. Otherwise, it would say so “or”.
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Hello All,
Looks like Tasha's has breathed some life into the ranger! My question is can the companion be commanded as a bonus action to take the attack action? (And then on top of that does it mean you could command it to attack in the place of your attack and then commanded to attack again as a bonus action?)
My reason for asking is the wording states "unless you take a bonus action on your turn to command it to take another action. That action can be one in its stat block or some other action." The attack action is on the stat block and also falls under the "any other action" category in my mind.
I could of course be being completely stupid.
Thanks in advance!
Yes.
No. Like all creatures it only gets one action per turn unless some other rule says otherwise. Giving up an attack just gives you a bit more flexibility if you need your bonus action for something else (like casting a spell) and you're fine with taking the Attack action and commanding your companion to attack.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Fantastic, thank you for your speedy reply!
As a DM, I would be fine with a Ranger burning both an attack and a Bonus Action to allow the beast to attack twice in their stead. Even if it's not technically RAW.
The Primal Companion's damage is going to be comparable to the Ranger's at lower levels, but will lose value as magic items, buff spells, and resistances come into play. Being able to make the companion a primary resource, rather than a secondary one goes a long way toward satisfying the flavor of a Beast Master.
Not necessarily. Beast of the Land starts at 1d8 + 4 damage (which is equivalent to a longbow with 18 DEX) and the damage keeps going up with your proficiency bonus. The Charge trait also gives them an extra 1d6 and prone effect when engaging a new enemy, and the DC scales too.
By 7th level their damage is automatically magical so resistances stop being an issue, and Tasha's Cauldron added magic weapon to the Ranger spell list in case you really need to do something about damage resistances 2 levels early. At any rate, you can still try to knock enemies prone whether they resist their damage or not, or simply use the Help action.
By 11th level they're getting two 1d8 + 6 attacks instead of one, so you're looking at 4 attacks total without being limited to 1d6 light weapons and without having to invest in the Dual Wielder feat. Not a bad deal.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
1) True, I was thinking that the Archery Fighting style granted +2 to damage like the Dueling style, which would put the longbow attack 9 levels ahead of the Beast of the Land.
2) The Charge trait only works after covering 20ft, so once the beast closes the distance, it is very unlikely to be able to use it twice in one round. The second attack is very likely to get neither the bonus damage, nor the prone chance.
3) Flying enemies, escarpments, crevasses, and fortifications will make the Beast of the Land struggle, and Beast of the Air will deal less damage and lacks the charge feature. So at those higher levels, having magical attacks may not be enough to compensate for the lack of reach.
4) True, getting multiattack at 11th level is pretty good. However, as long as the Beast master can only use multiattack once per turn, they would end up getting 4 attacks total either way.
1d8+2+4 is equivalent to a Longbow with 18 DEX and Bracers of Archery, so the damage difference for substituting one beast attack becomes a wash for very cheap.
However, with Hunter's Mark, the Ranger would be able to get +1d6 damage via Extra Attack by skipping the extra Beast attack.
Between the Standard Beast Master and a Beast Master who can sacrifice one attack for one extra beast attack, it's pretty irrelevant. Having more options is always mechanically superior, but the change in balance is very small compared to the flavor benefits.
How exactly do you add this feature to your character sheet? I don't see it listed in the Optional Feature Manager, nor do I see Beast of the Land/Sea/Sky in the character sheet Extras, Manage Extras section.
I think it is a known bug at the minute. Hopefully it will get fixed soon.
Is it possible to set the max hps of one of the creatures for primal companion?
Yes.
I'm probably going to take some heat for saying this, as I have in another threat, but the answer is "no."
The ranger can use their Bonus Action to command their companion to take an action in their stat block or some other action. This tells us two things.
If the intent was for the companion to be able to Attack using the ranger's Bonus Action, the sentence would say so. And the vagueness of the sentence should not be interpreted to mean any action. The 7th-level feature Exceptional Training specifically grants the ranger the ability to command their companion, with their Bonus Action, to take the Dash, Disengage, or Help action. There's no language to suggest this no longer applies. When in doubt, it's the DM's call. Personally
Then there's also the very next sentence to consider.
This also tells us two things.
So, to sum up, the companion cannot take the Attack action at the ranger's Bonus Action command.
But they can use it alongside their normal Action. And this gets better with Bestial Fury at 11th-level. If you're a ranger with TWF, then you and the companion can each attempt two attacks. Any other ranger can still get in 4 attacks, total, but three come from the companion. And an archer with swift quiver can make up to 5 total attacks per turn, but this was always the case.
Not necessarily. By not being specific, the feature left it open to the general rules for actions I combat (see link above). The intent of the primal companion feature was to make beast masters not suck by restricting basic actions to higher levels and bring it up to par with with newer pet classes at 3rd level. This does make half of the level 7th feature redundant with the new 3rd level feature.
The comment about Bestial Fury goes against your conclusion. It requires the companion to take the attack action, which according to you can only be done by giving up 1 of your own attacks. So either you or your companion can make 2 attacks, but not both. The only way to make 4 attacks according to your ruling is to make 1 yourself, give the beast 2 with your other attack and 1 with BA (1 you, 3 beast), but again, as this requires a creature to take 2 actions in 1 turn without a feature that allows that, it is not possible this way.
The companion's actions are only limited by the number of commands the ranger can give them. It was possible before, with just the PHB, for the ranger to use both Exceptional Training and order them to attack in one turn. There's no reason to think they cannot now.
No that also would not have been allowed for the same reasons as now. Creatures only get 1 action unless something says otherwise.
The issue isn't what you think the companion is limited to. The ranger has no such restriction on the number of commands it can give its companion. Are you saying the ranger cannot issue multiple commands? Or are you saying that even if the ranger does the companion cannot follow through on them all?
The companion would not have been able to follow them all. It only has 1 action it can use.
So you're saying that even though the ranger can expressly give it multiple commands, it cannot follow through on all of them? The ranger can waste their turn?
Yes? (Sort of). I mean, the ranger can still make 1 attack and the companion will still follow one of the commands, so at worst you wasted a bonus action. It is useful having multiple ways to issue a command for flexibility with your own action economy.
It isn't like there aren't multiple other ways to waste part of your turn. Just don't do it if you don't want to.
We have a beastmaster ranger in our campaign, and she was struggling with the specifics of the primal companion, particularly having it roll through the Beyond 20 plugin. I just ended up building her a homebrew creature and added it to her character sheet. I will change its stats as she levels.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
This is worded to imply it can take two actions as the exception to the general rule if the player sacrifices an attack and uses their bonus action to command
because of the usage of “also”. Otherwise, it would say so “or”.