I have a question about the Drunken Master's tipsy sway. Let's say he's being flanked by two opponents who both have sneak attack. The first one attacked and was definitely going to use sneak attack, but the attack misses, does the redirected attack also gain the benefit of the sneak attack?
Hmm, tricky to call; Sneak Attack’s specific language is as follows:
“Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll. The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon.
You don’t need advantage on the attack roll if another enemy of the target is within 5 feet of it, that enemy isn’t incapacitated, and you don’t have disadvantage on the attack roll.”
So, the condition to allow the extra damage is met by virtue of the Drunken Master being next to the target. The “you can” part right at the start could suggest this is a discretionary feature, like Divine Smite, though. Honestly, I think this is one that boils down to a DM call on whether or not the bonus damage goes through, from an in-game perspective I could see a case either way. Personally, I’d allow it on Rule of Cool.
RAW, the “can” part of it and the fact that it is triggered on a hit and not declared before the attack means it doesn’t have to happen. But it’s really up the DM.
Is this some weird PVP stuff? Pretty sure most of not all creatures that emulate sneak attack or bonus damage just have it automatically added to their blocks without the actual limitations of sneak attack.
Btw if you have a DM that’s automatically applying your player characters “you can” features like sneak attack other creatures or Allie’s consistently then you should probably have a conversation about that. Yes the DM is the arbiter of rules but if those rulings are consistently made at the expense of player agency then why are you there?
we had a situation similar to this pop up in one of my earliest games in 5e. My party opened a door and initiative was rolled when the creatures on the other side were surprised. Rogue had advantage on the first ranged attack and as such they had to choose between applying sneak attack or not and also who to target, but knew that something felt off. They ended up allying sneak attack and rolled almost max damage on a startled but peaceful potential ally in the middle of a town being ransacked killing them instantly.
Is this some weird PVP stuff? Pretty sure most of not all creatures that emulate sneak attack or bonus damage just have it automatically added to their blocks without the actual limitations of sneak attack.
Btw if you have a DM that’s automatically applying your player characters “you can” features like sneak attack other creatures or Allie’s consistently then you should probably have a conversation about that. Yes the DM is the arbiter of rules but if those rulings are consistently made at the expense of player agency then why are you there?
we had a situation similar to this pop up in one of my earliest games in 5e. My party opened a door and initiative was rolled when the creatures on the other side were surprised. Rogue had advantage on the first ranged attack and as such they had to choose between applying sneak attack or not and also who to target, but knew that something felt off. They ended up allying sneak attack and rolled almost max damage on a startled but peaceful potential ally in the middle of a town being ransacked killing them instantly.
Could just be NPC's with class levels. Plus there's NPC's like Assassin that have a Sneak Attack feature that's basically the same as the class feature.
Is this some weird PVP stuff? Pretty sure most of not all creatures that emulate sneak attack or bonus damage just have it automatically added to their blocks without the actual limitations of sneak attack.
Btw if you have a DM that’s automatically applying your player characters “you can” features like sneak attack other creatures or Allie’s consistently then you should probably have a conversation about that. Yes the DM is the arbiter of rules but if those rulings are consistently made at the expense of player agency then why are you there?
we had a situation similar to this pop up in one of my earliest games in 5e. My party opened a door and initiative was rolled when the creatures on the other side were surprised. Rogue had advantage on the first ranged attack and as such they had to choose between applying sneak attack or not and also who to target, but knew that something felt off. They ended up allying sneak attack and rolled almost max damage on a startled but peaceful potential ally in the middle of a town being ransacked killing them instantly.
Could just be NPC's with class levels. Plus there's NPC's like Assassin that have a Sneak Attack feature that's basically the same as the class feature.
And the master thief. The newer versions of these monsters just do more damage, but the legacy versions actually use Sneak Attack.
Is this some weird PVP stuff? Pretty sure most of not all creatures that emulate sneak attack or bonus damage just have it automatically added to their blocks without the actual limitations of sneak attack.
Btw if you have a DM that’s automatically applying your player characters “you can” features like sneak attack other creatures or Allie’s consistently then you should probably have a conversation about that. Yes the DM is the arbiter of rules but if those rulings are consistently made at the expense of player agency then why are you there?
we had a situation similar to this pop up in one of my earliest games in 5e. My party opened a door and initiative was rolled when the creatures on the other side were surprised. Rogue had advantage on the first ranged attack and as such they had to choose between applying sneak attack or not and also who to target, but knew that something felt off. They ended up allying sneak attack and rolled almost max damage on a startled but peaceful potential ally in the middle of a town being ransacked killing them instantly.
Could just be NPC's with class levels. Plus there's NPC's like Assassin that have a Sneak Attack feature that's basically the same as the class feature.
And the master thief. The newer versions of these monsters just do more damage, but the legacy versions actually use Sneak Attack.
Once again reaffirming my opinion that they have gone way overboard watering down NPC features
Is this some weird PVP stuff? Pretty sure most of not all creatures that emulate sneak attack or bonus damage just have it automatically added to their blocks without the actual limitations of sneak attack.
Btw if you have a DM that’s automatically applying your player characters “you can” features like sneak attack other creatures or Allie’s consistently then you should probably have a conversation about that. Yes the DM is the arbiter of rules but if those rulings are consistently made at the expense of player agency then why are you there?
we had a situation similar to this pop up in one of my earliest games in 5e. My party opened a door and initiative was rolled when the creatures on the other side were surprised. Rogue had advantage on the first ranged attack and as such they had to choose between applying sneak attack or not and also who to target, but knew that something felt off. They ended up allying sneak attack and rolled almost max damage on a startled but peaceful potential ally in the middle of a town being ransacked killing them instantly.
Could just be NPC's with class levels. Plus there's NPC's like Assassin that have a Sneak Attack feature that's basically the same as the class feature.
And the master thief. The newer versions of these monsters just do more damage, but the legacy versions actually use Sneak Attack.
Once again reaffirming my opinion that they have gone way overboard watering down NPC features
Is this some weird PVP stuff? Pretty sure most of not all creatures that emulate sneak attack or bonus damage just have it automatically added to their blocks without the actual limitations of sneak attack.
Btw if you have a DM that’s automatically applying your player characters “you can” features like sneak attack other creatures or Allie’s consistently then you should probably have a conversation about that. Yes the DM is the arbiter of rules but if those rulings are consistently made at the expense of player agency then why are you there?
we had a situation similar to this pop up in one of my earliest games in 5e. My party opened a door and initiative was rolled when the creatures on the other side were surprised. Rogue had advantage on the first ranged attack and as such they had to choose between applying sneak attack or not and also who to target, but knew that something felt off. They ended up allying sneak attack and rolled almost max damage on a startled but peaceful potential ally in the middle of a town being ransacked killing them instantly.
Could just be NPC's with class levels. Plus there's NPC's like Assassin that have a Sneak Attack feature that's basically the same as the class feature.
And the master thief. The newer versions of these monsters just do more damage, but the legacy versions actually use Sneak Attack.
Once again reaffirming my opinion that they have gone way overboard watering down NPC features
How is it “watering down”? It’s different, but it’s not any conceptually simpler. The presentation is, which is the point. But the meat is all still there.
Is this some weird PVP stuff? Pretty sure most of not all creatures that emulate sneak attack or bonus damage just have it automatically added to their blocks without the actual limitations of sneak attack.
Btw if you have a DM that’s automatically applying your player characters “you can” features like sneak attack other creatures or Allie’s consistently then you should probably have a conversation about that. Yes the DM is the arbiter of rules but if those rulings are consistently made at the expense of player agency then why are you there?
we had a situation similar to this pop up in one of my earliest games in 5e. My party opened a door and initiative was rolled when the creatures on the other side were surprised. Rogue had advantage on the first ranged attack and as such they had to choose between applying sneak attack or not and also who to target, but knew that something felt off. They ended up allying sneak attack and rolled almost max damage on a startled but peaceful potential ally in the middle of a town being ransacked killing them instantly.
Could just be NPC's with class levels. Plus there's NPC's like Assassin that have a Sneak Attack feature that's basically the same as the class feature.
And the master thief. The newer versions of these monsters just do more damage, but the legacy versions actually use Sneak Attack.
Once again reaffirming my opinion that they have gone way overboard watering down NPC features
How is it “watering down”? It’s different, but it’s not any conceptually simpler. The presentation is, which is the point. But the meat is all still there.
Rather than large single target burst damage, it's spread out across three attacks, which significantly weakens the effect. And it's now based on poison damage, which even among PC's is a relatively common resistance. Trust me, you're gonna sit up and take notice a lot more when the DM announces you took a good 14 points of sneak attack damage rather than 3 points of poison damage. But apparently the designers have decided DM's can't be expected to keep track of anything much more advanced than a straight attack roll these days mumble grumble back in my day uphill both ways and we liked it that way
Edit PS: Plus the prior way allowed for the party to be able to attempt to counter it with positioning, which adds a welcome element of tactical positioning to a game that's somewhat infamous for fairly static combat positions.
Is this some weird PVP stuff? Pretty sure most of not all creatures that emulate sneak attack or bonus damage just have it automatically added to their blocks without the actual limitations of sneak attack.
Btw if you have a DM that’s automatically applying your player characters “you can” features like sneak attack other creatures or Allie’s consistently then you should probably have a conversation about that. Yes the DM is the arbiter of rules but if those rulings are consistently made at the expense of player agency then why are you there?
we had a situation similar to this pop up in one of my earliest games in 5e. My party opened a door and initiative was rolled when the creatures on the other side were surprised. Rogue had advantage on the first ranged attack and as such they had to choose between applying sneak attack or not and also who to target, but knew that something felt off. They ended up allying sneak attack and rolled almost max damage on a startled but peaceful potential ally in the middle of a town being ransacked killing them instantly.
Could just be NPC's with class levels. Plus there's NPC's like Assassin that have a Sneak Attack feature that's basically the same as the class feature.
And the master thief. The newer versions of these monsters just do more damage, but the legacy versions actually use Sneak Attack.
Once again reaffirming my opinion that they have gone way overboard watering down NPC features
How is it “watering down”? It’s different, but it’s not any conceptually simpler. The presentation is, which is the point. But the meat is all still there.
Because now it’s just regular attacks with damage. Before it was a cool ability, now it’s just samesame.
Is this some weird PVP stuff? Pretty sure most of not all creatures that emulate sneak attack or bonus damage just have it automatically added to their blocks without the actual limitations of sneak attack.
Btw if you have a DM that’s automatically applying your player characters “you can” features like sneak attack other creatures or Allie’s consistently then you should probably have a conversation about that. Yes the DM is the arbiter of rules but if those rulings are consistently made at the expense of player agency then why are you there?
we had a situation similar to this pop up in one of my earliest games in 5e. My party opened a door and initiative was rolled when the creatures on the other side were surprised. Rogue had advantage on the first ranged attack and as such they had to choose between applying sneak attack or not and also who to target, but knew that something felt off. They ended up allying sneak attack and rolled almost max damage on a startled but peaceful potential ally in the middle of a town being ransacked killing them instantly.
Could just be NPC's with class levels. Plus there's NPC's like Assassin that have a Sneak Attack feature that's basically the same as the class feature.
And the master thief. The newer versions of these monsters just do more damage, but the legacy versions actually use Sneak Attack.
Once again reaffirming my opinion that they have gone way overboard watering down NPC features
How is it “watering down”? It’s different, but it’s not any conceptually simpler. The presentation is, which is the point. But the meat is all still there.
Because now it’s just regular attacks with damage. Before it was a cool ability, now it’s just samesame.
I don’t really buy that. The observable effect is identical. The only person who knows it’s a rider on the attack rather than a separate feature is the DM, and they can conceptualize it however they want.
Is this some weird PVP stuff? Pretty sure most of not all creatures that emulate sneak attack or bonus damage just have it automatically added to their blocks without the actual limitations of sneak attack.
Btw if you have a DM that’s automatically applying your player characters “you can” features like sneak attack other creatures or Allie’s consistently then you should probably have a conversation about that. Yes the DM is the arbiter of rules but if those rulings are consistently made at the expense of player agency then why are you there?
we had a situation similar to this pop up in one of my earliest games in 5e. My party opened a door and initiative was rolled when the creatures on the other side were surprised. Rogue had advantage on the first ranged attack and as such they had to choose between applying sneak attack or not and also who to target, but knew that something felt off. They ended up allying sneak attack and rolled almost max damage on a startled but peaceful potential ally in the middle of a town being ransacked killing them instantly.
Could just be NPC's with class levels. Plus there's NPC's like Assassin that have a Sneak Attack feature that's basically the same as the class feature.
And the master thief. The newer versions of these monsters just do more damage, but the legacy versions actually use Sneak Attack.
Once again reaffirming my opinion that they have gone way overboard watering down NPC features
How is it “watering down”? It’s different, but it’s not any conceptually simpler. The presentation is, which is the point. But the meat is all still there.
Because now it’s just regular attacks with damage. Before it was a cool ability, now it’s just samesame.
I don’t really buy that. The observable effect is identical. The only person who knows it’s a rider on the attack rather than a separate feature is the DM, and they can conceptualize it however they want.
No, the observable effect is very different. With Sneak Attack they only need to land a single hit to deliver the full measure of extra damage. Now they're functionally delivering slightly worse than 2d6+4 weapon damage per hit, and the odds don't favor them landing all three hits in a level appropriate encounter.
Is this some weird PVP stuff? Pretty sure most of not all creatures that emulate sneak attack or bonus damage just have it automatically added to their blocks without the actual limitations of sneak attack.
Btw if you have a DM that’s automatically applying your player characters “you can” features like sneak attack other creatures or Allie’s consistently then you should probably have a conversation about that. Yes the DM is the arbiter of rules but if those rulings are consistently made at the expense of player agency then why are you there?
we had a situation similar to this pop up in one of my earliest games in 5e. My party opened a door and initiative was rolled when the creatures on the other side were surprised. Rogue had advantage on the first ranged attack and as such they had to choose between applying sneak attack or not and also who to target, but knew that something felt off. They ended up allying sneak attack and rolled almost max damage on a startled but peaceful potential ally in the middle of a town being ransacked killing them instantly.
Could just be NPC's with class levels. Plus there's NPC's like Assassin that have a Sneak Attack feature that's basically the same as the class feature.
And the master thief. The newer versions of these monsters just do more damage, but the legacy versions actually use Sneak Attack.
Once again reaffirming my opinion that they have gone way overboard watering down NPC features
How is it “watering down”? It’s different, but it’s not any conceptually simpler. The presentation is, which is the point. But the meat is all still there.
Because now it’s just regular attacks with damage. Before it was a cool ability, now it’s just samesame.
I don’t really buy that. The observable effect is identical. The only person who knows it’s a rider on the attack rather than a separate feature is the DM, and they can conceptualize it however they want.
Well, anybody can conceptualize any part of the game however they want to. Does that mean we only need 4 classes and no subclasses like in the old days? Just Human, Elf, and Dwarf like before too? I mean, after all, a “fighting guy” could be conceptualized as any martial class, and a “magic user” could be conceptualized as any arcane caster, and an Elf could be conceptualized as any tall nonhuman. Right?
Is this some weird PVP stuff? Pretty sure most of not all creatures that emulate sneak attack or bonus damage just have it automatically added to their blocks without the actual limitations of sneak attack.
Btw if you have a DM that’s automatically applying your player characters “you can” features like sneak attack other creatures or Allie’s consistently then you should probably have a conversation about that. Yes the DM is the arbiter of rules but if those rulings are consistently made at the expense of player agency then why are you there?
we had a situation similar to this pop up in one of my earliest games in 5e. My party opened a door and initiative was rolled when the creatures on the other side were surprised. Rogue had advantage on the first ranged attack and as such they had to choose between applying sneak attack or not and also who to target, but knew that something felt off. They ended up allying sneak attack and rolled almost max damage on a startled but peaceful potential ally in the middle of a town being ransacked killing them instantly.
Could just be NPC's with class levels. Plus there's NPC's like Assassin that have a Sneak Attack feature that's basically the same as the class feature.
And the master thief. The newer versions of these monsters just do more damage, but the legacy versions actually use Sneak Attack.
Once again reaffirming my opinion that they have gone way overboard watering down NPC features
How is it “watering down”? It’s different, but it’s not any conceptually simpler. The presentation is, which is the point. But the meat is all still there.
Because now it’s just regular attacks with damage. Before it was a cool ability, now it’s just samesame.
I don’t really buy that. The observable effect is identical. The only person who knows it’s a rider on the attack rather than a separate feature is the DM, and they can conceptualize it however they want.
Well, anybody can conceptualize any part of the game however they want to. Does that mean we only need 4 classes and no subclasses like in the old days? Just Human, Elf, and Dwarf like before too? I mean, after all, a “fighting guy” could be conceptualized as any martial class, and a “magic user” could be conceptualized as any arcane caster, and an Elf could be conceptualized as any tall nonhuman. Right?
You’re citing a bunch of examples of things that are mechanically distinct from each other in ways that have observable gameplay impact. If that were the case for what we’re talking about, I’d agree with you. My point is that it’s not. The only real difference is how the information is presented. Where there is a difference in how the DM runs the creature, like swapping out spell slots for num/day, that’s not a difference that will ever be perceptible to players.
Is this some weird PVP stuff? Pretty sure most of not all creatures that emulate sneak attack or bonus damage just have it automatically added to their blocks without the actual limitations of sneak attack.
Btw if you have a DM that’s automatically applying your player characters “you can” features like sneak attack other creatures or Allie’s consistently then you should probably have a conversation about that. Yes the DM is the arbiter of rules but if those rulings are consistently made at the expense of player agency then why are you there?
we had a situation similar to this pop up in one of my earliest games in 5e. My party opened a door and initiative was rolled when the creatures on the other side were surprised. Rogue had advantage on the first ranged attack and as such they had to choose between applying sneak attack or not and also who to target, but knew that something felt off. They ended up allying sneak attack and rolled almost max damage on a startled but peaceful potential ally in the middle of a town being ransacked killing them instantly.
Could just be NPC's with class levels. Plus there's NPC's like Assassin that have a Sneak Attack feature that's basically the same as the class feature.
And the master thief. The newer versions of these monsters just do more damage, but the legacy versions actually use Sneak Attack.
Once again reaffirming my opinion that they have gone way overboard watering down NPC features
How is it “watering down”? It’s different, but it’s not any conceptually simpler. The presentation is, which is the point. But the meat is all still there.
Because now it’s just regular attacks with damage. Before it was a cool ability, now it’s just samesame.
I don’t really buy that. The observable effect is identical. The only person who knows it’s a rider on the attack rather than a separate feature is the DM, and they can conceptualize it however they want.
Well, anybody can conceptualize any part of the game however they want to. Does that mean we only need 4 classes and no subclasses like in the old days? Just Human, Elf, and Dwarf like before too? I mean, after all, a “fighting guy” could be conceptualized as any martial class, and a “magic user” could be conceptualized as any arcane caster, and an Elf could be conceptualized as any tall nonhuman. Right?
You’re citing a bunch of examples of things that are mechanically distinct from each other in ways that have observable gameplay impact. If that were the case for what we’re talking about, I’d agree with you. My point is that it’s not. The only real difference is how the information is presented. Where there is a difference in how the DM runs the creature, like swapping out spell slots for num/day, that’s not a difference that will ever be perceptible to players.
It's really not, though. 4d6 extra damage the first time on a turn a single attack hits while meeting certain other conditions is very different from 1d6 additional damage if any given hit connects. It technically nets out to approximately the same aggregate damage dice, but the actual in-combat impact is very different.
Hmm, tricky to call; Sneak Attack’s specific language is as follows:
“Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll. The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon.
You don’t need advantage on the attack roll if another enemy of the target is within 5 feet of it, that enemy isn’t incapacitated, and you don’t have disadvantage on the attack roll.”
"Another enemy" says the creature doing the Sneak Attack is an enemy of the creature they're doing the damage to
If the monk uses Tipsy Sway to have allies hit each other, there would be no Sneak Attack damage
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Is this some weird PVP stuff? Pretty sure most of not all creatures that emulate sneak attack or bonus damage just have it automatically added to their blocks without the actual limitations of sneak attack.
Btw if you have a DM that’s automatically applying your player characters “you can” features like sneak attack other creatures or Allie’s consistently then you should probably have a conversation about that. Yes the DM is the arbiter of rules but if those rulings are consistently made at the expense of player agency then why are you there?
we had a situation similar to this pop up in one of my earliest games in 5e. My party opened a door and initiative was rolled when the creatures on the other side were surprised. Rogue had advantage on the first ranged attack and as such they had to choose between applying sneak attack or not and also who to target, but knew that something felt off. They ended up allying sneak attack and rolled almost max damage on a startled but peaceful potential ally in the middle of a town being ransacked killing them instantly.
Could just be NPC's with class levels. Plus there's NPC's like Assassin that have a Sneak Attack feature that's basically the same as the class feature.
And the master thief. The newer versions of these monsters just do more damage, but the legacy versions actually use Sneak Attack.
Once again reaffirming my opinion that they have gone way overboard watering down NPC features
How is it “watering down”? It’s different, but it’s not any conceptually simpler. The presentation is, which is the point. But the meat is all still there.
Because now it’s just regular attacks with damage. Before it was a cool ability, now it’s just samesame.
I don’t really buy that. The observable effect is identical. The only person who knows it’s a rider on the attack rather than a separate feature is the DM, and they can conceptualize it however they want.
Well, anybody can conceptualize any part of the game however they want to. Does that mean we only need 4 classes and no subclasses like in the old days? Just Human, Elf, and Dwarf like before too? I mean, after all, a “fighting guy” could be conceptualized as any martial class, and a “magic user” could be conceptualized as any arcane caster, and an Elf could be conceptualized as any tall nonhuman. Right?
You’re citing a bunch of examples of things that are mechanically distinct from each other in ways that have observable gameplay impact. If that were the case for what we’re talking about, I’d agree with you. My point is that it’s not. The only real difference is how the information is presented. Where there is a difference in how the DM runs the creature, like swapping out spell slots for num/day, that’s not a difference that will ever be perceptible to players.
Getting back on topic - I'd agree with the first replies saying that it's a DM call / the "can" in the wording would allow them to choose. I'm a forever DM, and usually in these edge cases I'll just go for whatever fits the flavor of the moment.
For Sneak Attack, the idea is that you're exploiting a weakness in an enemy that's being preoccupied or that you have the drop on. Monk's Tipsy Sway isn't exactly guiding the attack with the precision required for a sneak attack imo, so based on that I'd say it wouldn't get added.
Though if the player made a good enough argument / cool enough description I'd give it to them. Like mentioned earlier, Rule of Cool.
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I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
Given the wording of Tipsy Sway and sneak attack - I would say sneak attack doesn't have to apply.
"Redirect Attack. When a creature misses you with a melee attack roll, you can spend 1 ki point as a reaction to cause that attack to hit one creature of your choice, other than the attacker, that you can see within 5 feet of you."
Redirecting the attack requires the attack to MISS. While sneak attack is an option the creature can use when the attack hits.
"Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll. "
In this case, the rogue could not use sneak attack against the monk since the attack missed so there is no way it could be redirected. After missing, the attack is redirected to hit another creature, but the rogue can choose to not use sneak attack at that time.
Compare this to the rune knight ability:
"In addition, when you or a creature you can see within 30 feet of you is hit by an attack roll, you can use your reaction to invoke the rune and choose a different creature within 30 feet of you, other than the attacker. The chosen creature becomes the target of the attack, using the same roll. This magic can transfer the attack’s effects regardless of the attack’s range."
In this case, the rune knight can transfer the attack AFTER it hits. At this point the rogue would decide whether they are using sneak attack or not. It would be up to the DM whether the rune effect or the sneak attack declaration would come first but I would lean toward the rogue having to declare whether they are using sneak attack when the attack hits and before the rune knight can redirect it since it does say that the rune will redirect the attack's effects which, in my opinion, would include any rider damage like a declared sneak attack or smite.
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I have a question about the Drunken Master's tipsy sway. Let's say he's being flanked by two opponents who both have sneak attack. The first one attacked and was definitely going to use sneak attack, but the attack misses, does the redirected attack also gain the benefit of the sneak attack?
Awww yeah!!!
Hmm, tricky to call; Sneak Attack’s specific language is as follows:
“Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll. The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon.
You don’t need advantage on the attack roll if another enemy of the target is within 5 feet of it, that enemy isn’t incapacitated, and you don’t have disadvantage on the attack roll.”
So, the condition to allow the extra damage is met by virtue of the Drunken Master being next to the target. The “you can” part right at the start could suggest this is a discretionary feature, like Divine Smite, though. Honestly, I think this is one that boils down to a DM call on whether or not the bonus damage goes through, from an in-game perspective I could see a case either way. Personally, I’d allow it on Rule of Cool.
RAW, the “can” part of it and the fact that it is triggered on a hit and not declared before the attack means it doesn’t have to happen. But it’s really up the DM.
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Is this some weird PVP stuff? Pretty sure most of not all creatures that emulate sneak attack or bonus damage just have it automatically added to their blocks without the actual limitations of sneak attack.
Btw if you have a DM that’s automatically applying your player characters “you can” features like sneak attack other creatures or Allie’s consistently then you should probably have a conversation about that. Yes the DM is the arbiter of rules but if those rulings are consistently made at the expense of player agency then why are you there?
we had a situation similar to this pop up in one of my earliest games in 5e. My party opened a door and initiative was rolled when the creatures on the other side were surprised. Rogue had advantage on the first ranged attack and as such they had to choose between applying sneak attack or not and also who to target, but knew that something felt off. They ended up allying sneak attack and rolled almost max damage on a startled but peaceful potential ally in the middle of a town being ransacked killing them instantly.
Could just be NPC's with class levels. Plus there's NPC's like Assassin that have a Sneak Attack feature that's basically the same as the class feature.
And the master thief. The newer versions of these monsters just do more damage, but the legacy versions actually use Sneak Attack.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
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Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Once again reaffirming my opinion that they have gone way overboard watering down NPC features
Right.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
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Content Troubleshooting
How is it “watering down”? It’s different, but it’s not any conceptually simpler. The presentation is, which is the point. But the meat is all still there.
Rather than large single target burst damage, it's spread out across three attacks, which significantly weakens the effect. And it's now based on poison damage, which even among PC's is a relatively common resistance. Trust me, you're gonna sit up and take notice a lot more when the DM announces you took a good 14 points of sneak attack damage rather than 3 points of poison damage. But apparently the designers have decided DM's can't be expected to keep track of anything much more advanced than a straight attack roll these days mumble grumble back in my day uphill both ways and we liked it that way
Edit PS: Plus the prior way allowed for the party to be able to attempt to counter it with positioning, which adds a welcome element of tactical positioning to a game that's somewhat infamous for fairly static combat positions.
Because now it’s just regular attacks with damage. Before it was a cool ability, now it’s just samesame.
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I don’t really buy that. The observable effect is identical. The only person who knows it’s a rider on the attack rather than a separate feature is the DM, and they can conceptualize it however they want.
No, the observable effect is very different. With Sneak Attack they only need to land a single hit to deliver the full measure of extra damage. Now they're functionally delivering slightly worse than 2d6+4 weapon damage per hit, and the odds don't favor them landing all three hits in a level appropriate encounter.
Well, anybody can conceptualize any part of the game however they want to. Does that mean we only need 4 classes and no subclasses like in the old days? Just Human, Elf, and Dwarf like before too? I mean, after all, a “fighting guy” could be conceptualized as any martial class, and a “magic user” could be conceptualized as any arcane caster, and an Elf could be conceptualized as any tall nonhuman. Right?
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You’re citing a bunch of examples of things that are mechanically distinct from each other in ways that have observable gameplay impact. If that were the case for what we’re talking about, I’d agree with you. My point is that it’s not. The only real difference is how the information is presented. Where there is a difference in how the DM runs the creature, like swapping out spell slots for num/day, that’s not a difference that will ever be perceptible to players.
It's really not, though. 4d6 extra damage the first time on a turn a single attack hits while meeting certain other conditions is very different from 1d6 additional damage if any given hit connects. It technically nets out to approximately the same aggregate damage dice, but the actual in-combat impact is very different.
"Another enemy" says the creature doing the Sneak Attack is an enemy of the creature they're doing the damage to
If the monk uses Tipsy Sway to have allies hit each other, there would be no Sneak Attack damage
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
And on that point we disagree.
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Getting back on topic - I'd agree with the first replies saying that it's a DM call / the "can" in the wording would allow them to choose. I'm a forever DM, and usually in these edge cases I'll just go for whatever fits the flavor of the moment.
For Sneak Attack, the idea is that you're exploiting a weakness in an enemy that's being preoccupied or that you have the drop on. Monk's Tipsy Sway isn't exactly guiding the attack with the precision required for a sneak attack imo, so based on that I'd say it wouldn't get added.
Though if the player made a good enough argument / cool enough description I'd give it to them. Like mentioned earlier, Rule of Cool.
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
Given the wording of Tipsy Sway and sneak attack - I would say sneak attack doesn't have to apply.
"Redirect Attack. When a creature misses you with a melee attack roll, you can spend 1 ki point as a reaction to cause that attack to hit one creature of your choice, other than the attacker, that you can see within 5 feet of you."
Redirecting the attack requires the attack to MISS. While sneak attack is an option the creature can use when the attack hits.
"Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6![]()
damage to one creature you hit with an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll. "
In this case, the rogue could not use sneak attack against the monk since the attack missed so there is no way it could be redirected. After missing, the attack is redirected to hit another creature, but the rogue can choose to not use sneak attack at that time.
Compare this to the rune knight ability:
"In addition, when you or a creature you can see within 30 feet of you is hit by an attack roll, you can use your reaction to invoke the rune and choose a different creature within 30 feet of you, other than the attacker. The chosen creature becomes the target of the attack, using the same roll. This magic can transfer the attack’s effects regardless of the attack’s range."
In this case, the rune knight can transfer the attack AFTER it hits. At this point the rogue would decide whether they are using sneak attack or not. It would be up to the DM whether the rune effect or the sneak attack declaration would come first but I would lean toward the rogue having to declare whether they are using sneak attack when the attack hits and before the rune knight can redirect it since it does say that the rune will redirect the attack's effects which, in my opinion, would include any rider damage like a declared sneak attack or smite.