I doubt I will get a rules as intended answer so unless your name is Jeremy Crawford or Mike Mearls all other replies to this thread will be opinion only which is fine.
I understand the rules of attuning to a magic item both in the PHB and DMG and have no issues with them. However, the question I have is this. You find a magic weapon regardless of it's benefits and or magical properties but don't attune to it. It's still a magical item, detect magic will clearly show it as such, so if you use the weapon without being attuned to it wouldn't the damage be done still be considered magical damage. Just because you use the magical weapon doesn't make it a non-magical weapon if you're not attuned to it you just don't gain the benefits or magical properties.
Thoughts?
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I'm not responsible for managing your feelings or how you perceive or understand what I say and if you get offended, it doesn't make you right just means you cry and whine louder. I grew up in a time where sticks and stone may break my bones but words will never hurt me, such a missing trait among younger people nowadays.
As long as the damage is the base one of the weapon, I don't see why it should not still be considered magical. The item itself is magical, being a weapon makes it so that its primary function is dealing damage, which by logic should be considered magical, although the item is in a "dormant" state until attuned, but the attunement only makes it so that the user can use the full potential of the item activating all its bonuses and whatnot.
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Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
From my understanding you are correct it would be considered magical damage. The caveat would be that any special benefits, such as the +1 to hit/damage, life drain, or other special properties may not have an effect. I've seen it played as though it's a magical weapon that doesn't have any special properties until attuned. I've also seen it played where the special properties trigger but you learn about them as you go, and don't fully "awaken" the abilities of the weapon until attuned. Personally I like the second approach, it gives it some flavor that makes the magical world we're playing in seem to have a more natural flow.
So you’re asking if you could use a Firebrand Dagger without attaining to it, so you could effectively have a regular dagger’s damage, but overcome immunity to nonmagical damage using it?
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I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
In your example for a weapon in other platforms and not 5e unless it's a homebrew weapon, basically yes. You wouldn't get any bonuses to hit or damage of any kind from the daggers properties, but the "dagger" is still considered a magical weapon the damage would be considered magical damage
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm not responsible for managing your feelings or how you perceive or understand what I say and if you get offended, it doesn't make you right just means you cry and whine louder. I grew up in a time where sticks and stone may break my bones but words will never hurt me, such a missing trait among younger people nowadays.
My opinion, which is worth exactly what you're paying for it, is that a +1 Frost Brand long sword will be a +1 sword if it's not attuned and attuning to it will unlock everything else that it can do but a Frost Brand long sword that doesn't have a bonus to hit and damage will not do magical damage unless the wielder is attuned to it.
So Tim's badassery kills a room full of enemies carrying swords like the fight scene in Kill Bill. A little worse for wear Tim manages to have a Detect Magic spell cast and sense the presence of and sees an aura surrounding a glorious longsword. He picks it up but has no idea what this amazing sword's properties are. All of a sudden a creature (pick one) that is immune to bludgeoning, piercing, and Slashing from nonmagical attacks, attacks Tim. Tim fights back, grabbing a hold of that line between speed and chaos, and tries wrestle it to the ground like a demon cobra with his newly found sword but each Tim hits the creature with it does absolutely no damage to the creature because even though Tim knows it's a magical weapon, somehow the weapon becomes a non-magical weapon at each hit and eventually due to exhaustion Tim is killed.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm not responsible for managing your feelings or how you perceive or understand what I say and if you get offended, it doesn't make you right just means you cry and whine louder. I grew up in a time where sticks and stone may break my bones but words will never hurt me, such a missing trait among younger people nowadays.
So... it does absolutely no damage to the creature because even though Tim knows it's a magical weapon, somehow the weapon becomes a non-magical weapon at each hit and eventually due to exhaustion Tim is killed.
Are you arguing for or against here? So far everyone in this post has agreed that a magic weapon deals magical damage whether you are attuned to it or not, but most argue it doesn't grant any of its other bonuses until it is attuned. If it did offer its full bonus then why would anyone ever bother attuning to a weapon? As DM I would allow grabbing and using a weapon like in your demon cobra fight (for the magic damage), but wouldn't let the player keep using the weapon after that battle without attuning. The power of that weapon won't let itself be wielded for long without attunement.
Without becoming attuned to an item that requires attunement, a creature gains only its non magical benefits, unless its description states otherwise. For example, a magic shield that requires attunement provides the benefits of a normal shield to a creature not attuned to it, but none of its magical properties.
If that magical weapon requires attunement, and someone who isn't attuned it picks it up, then if functions as if a non magical version of the item (i.e. a normal sword).
Worth noting that there are numerous magic weapons that specifically state text such as, "Functions as a +1 weapon for anyone not attuned to it"
Without becoming attuned to an item that requires attunement, a creature gains only its non magical benefits, unless its description states otherwise. For example, a magic shield that requires attunement provides the benefits of a normal shield to a creature not attuned to it, but none of its magical properties.
If that magical weapon requires attunement, and someone who isn't attuned it picks it up, then if functions as if a non magical version of the item (i.e. a normal sword).
Worth noting that there are numerous magic weapons that specifically state text such as, "Functions as a +1 weapon for anyone not attuned to it"
Without becoming attuned to an item that requires attunement, a creature gains only its non magical benefits, unless its description states otherwise. For example, a magic shield that requires attunement provides the benefits of a normal shield to a creature not attuned to it, but none of its magical properties.
If that magical weapon requires attunement, and someone who isn't attuned it picks it up, then if functions as if a non magical version of the item (i.e. a normal sword)...
I'm not sure it's that black and white. From the Monster Manual introduction: "Particular creatures are even resistant or immune to damage from non-magical attacks (a magical attack is an attack delivered by a spell, a magic item, or another magical source)". Attacking with an unattuned weapon is still an attack delivered with a magic item. I would argue that the dealing of damage that bypasses non-magical resistance is not actually one of the "magical benefits" that are granted by attunement, but rather it is a feature of a creature that they are not resistant to damage from magical weapons (regardless of attunement). The weapon remains magical enough to hurt a ghost like any other (even slightly) magical weapon, but all its other powers and bonuses lie dormant until attuned.
Currently playing in: Quest for the Shunned City, Coliseum of Conquest, DragonDenn's Dragonlords, Shipwrecked on Fugue, Tomb of Annihilation, Razor's Lost Mine of Phandelver, The Lost Kenku & One Grung Above
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Currently playing in: Quest for the Shunned City, Coliseum of Conquest, DragonDenn's Dragonlords, Shipwrecked on Fugue, Tomb of Annihilation, Razor's Lost Mine of Phandelver, The Lost Kenku & One Grung Above
Currently DMing: Princes of the Apocalypse, Out of the Abyss, Coliseum of Conquest—The Arena (Sometimes)
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I doubt I will get a rules as intended answer so unless your name is Jeremy Crawford or Mike Mearls all other replies to this thread will be opinion only which is fine.
I understand the rules of attuning to a magic item both in the PHB and DMG and have no issues with them. However, the question I have is this. You find a magic weapon regardless of it's benefits and or magical properties but don't attune to it. It's still a magical item, detect magic will clearly show it as such, so if you use the weapon without being attuned to it wouldn't the damage be done still be considered magical damage. Just because you use the magical weapon doesn't make it a non-magical weapon if you're not attuned to it you just don't gain the benefits or magical properties.
Thoughts?
I'm not responsible for managing your feelings or how you perceive or understand what I say and if you get offended, it doesn't make you right just means you cry and whine louder. I grew up in a time where sticks and stone may break my bones but words will never hurt me, such a missing trait among younger people nowadays.
As long as the damage is the base one of the weapon, I don't see why it should not still be considered magical.
The item itself is magical, being a weapon makes it so that its primary function is dealing damage, which by logic should be considered magical, although the item is in a "dormant" state until attuned, but the attunement only makes it so that the user can use the full potential of the item activating all its bonuses and whatnot.
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
From my understanding you are correct it would be considered magical damage. The caveat would be that any special benefits, such as the +1 to hit/damage, life drain, or other special properties may not have an effect. I've seen it played as though it's a magical weapon that doesn't have any special properties until attuned. I've also seen it played where the special properties trigger but you learn about them as you go, and don't fully "awaken" the abilities of the weapon until attuned. Personally I like the second approach, it gives it some flavor that makes the magical world we're playing in seem to have a more natural flow.
So you’re asking if you could use a Firebrand Dagger without attaining to it, so you could effectively have a regular dagger’s damage, but overcome immunity to nonmagical damage using it?
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
In your example for a weapon in other platforms and not 5e unless it's a homebrew weapon, basically yes. You wouldn't get any bonuses to hit or damage of any kind from the daggers properties, but the "dagger" is still considered a magical weapon the damage would be considered magical damage
I'm not responsible for managing your feelings or how you perceive or understand what I say and if you get offended, it doesn't make you right just means you cry and whine louder. I grew up in a time where sticks and stone may break my bones but words will never hurt me, such a missing trait among younger people nowadays.
My opinion, which is worth exactly what you're paying for it, is that a +1 Frost Brand long sword will be a +1 sword if it's not attuned and attuning to it will unlock everything else that it can do but a Frost Brand long sword that doesn't have a bonus to hit and damage will not do magical damage unless the wielder is attuned to it.
Professional computer geek
Hazirawn from Dragon Queen adventure has stats for it not being attuned and for being attuned.
Not sure if this helps or not.
So Tim's badassery kills a room full of enemies carrying swords like the fight scene in Kill Bill. A little worse for wear Tim manages to have a Detect Magic spell cast and sense the presence of and sees an aura surrounding a glorious longsword. He picks it up but has no idea what this amazing sword's properties are. All of a sudden a creature (pick one) that is immune to bludgeoning, piercing, and Slashing from nonmagical attacks, attacks Tim. Tim fights back, grabbing a hold of that line between speed and chaos, and tries wrestle it to the ground like a demon cobra with his newly found sword but each Tim hits the creature with it does absolutely no damage to the creature because even though Tim knows it's a magical weapon, somehow the weapon becomes a non-magical weapon at each hit and eventually due to exhaustion Tim is killed.
I'm not responsible for managing your feelings or how you perceive or understand what I say and if you get offended, it doesn't make you right just means you cry and whine louder. I grew up in a time where sticks and stone may break my bones but words will never hurt me, such a missing trait among younger people nowadays.
i thought i read somewhere that you can use magical items before attuning it and you eventually figure what it does...
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D&D Beyond FoundersThe section on attunement in the DMG (page 138) seems to cover this:
If that magical weapon requires attunement, and someone who isn't attuned it picks it up, then if functions as if a non magical version of the item (i.e. a normal sword).
Worth noting that there are numerous magic weapons that specifically state text such as, "Functions as a +1 weapon for anyone not attuned to it"
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Class Guides: Barbarian, Rogue, Sorcerer, Bard General Guides: PvP
Currently playing in: Quest for the Shunned City, Coliseum of Conquest, DragonDenn's Dragonlords, Shipwrecked on Fugue, Tomb of Annihilation, Razor's Lost Mine of Phandelver, The Lost Kenku & One Grung Above
Currently DMing: Princes of the Apocalypse, Out of the Abyss, Coliseum of Conquest—The Arena (Sometimes)
Check out my Extended signature here
Class Guides: Barbarian, Rogue, Sorcerer, Bard General Guides: PvP
Currently playing in: Quest for the Shunned City, Coliseum of Conquest, DragonDenn's Dragonlords, Shipwrecked on Fugue, Tomb of Annihilation, Razor's Lost Mine of Phandelver, The Lost Kenku & One Grung Above
Currently DMing: Princes of the Apocalypse, Out of the Abyss, Coliseum of Conquest—The Arena (Sometimes)