I'd argue yes, but only if you had loaded them prior to combat, and then only on the first turn. After that, the ammunition property would require a free hand to load one or the other, so you would have to stow one of them to load the other.
An artificer's Repeating Shot infusion can bypass this though, as it loads ammunition on its own (overriding the general ammunition rule; there was a very long thread on this a few weeks back that got quite heated, but thats where I land on it)
Yea - only if you preload them before combat. Once fired they would need a free hand to reload because - as the others have pointed out - the Ammunition property.
The other thing to point out - using two hand-crossbows wouldn't net you any more attacks than just using one would. It's still only 1 extra bonus action attack over your normal Attack action attacks in both cases. The only benefit is the 'cool' factor of wielding two at a time.
Technically, yes, as long as they were both already loaded. But you would only be able to do it once per combat since you would need a free hand to reload either of them. It’s far more practical to simply shoot the same hand crossbow twice per turn instead. Shooting it once meets the criterial of “using the Attack action [to] attack on with a one-handed weapon,” so you can shoot the same crossbow again as your bonus action, and only using one hand crossbow leaves your other hand free for reloading.
Dual-wield hand crossbows, hold a shield and still have a free hand to reload those crossbows
Crossbow Expert can already multiattack while wielding a single hand crossbow so the second one doesn't bring much to the table.
I think he was referring to using a shield and hand-crossbows at the same time. Thri-kreen have an extra pair of arms that could be used to supply the free hand for reloading the hand crossbows. Most creatures couldn't do that - it gets around the ammunition feature. You still need the Xbow expert feat to get around the loading feature. (Though as you mention, the Xbow expert feat works fine with a single hand crossbow - the only reason to have two is for style points).
The other way to do it is an artificer with the repeating shot infusion who should be able to use a shield and a hand crossbow at the same time.
Why do the comments argue that they need to be pre-loaded? I know that ammunition rules say that a free hand is required, but does Crossbow Expert RAW already describe a situation that proves a free hand is not necessary?
The third line (and I'm also still referring to 2014):
When you use the Attack action and attack with a one handed weapon, you can use a bonus action to attack with a hand crossbow you are holding.
This implies that you could be wielding for example a Shortsword and a Hand Crossbow. Does this not already imply both hands are full of weapons? And it still allows you to use a bonus action to shoot, no hands available, after you stabbed with your sword per the attack action. Why can the first weapon then not also be another Hand Crossbow as they are both one handed weapons?
I really get confused by everyone's chatter about free hands on the ammunition rule (seen multiple threads and this one seems most accurate to respond to), because the third line on Crossbow Expert already implies you get a bonus action shot with your Hand Crossbow while your hands are already full. It does not mention needing to consume your one item interaction either. Please help me out here, am I somehow misunderstanding things? I genuinely do not see the problem based off of that third line in Crossbow Expert, it truly reads like you are already forgoing that ammo rule by the very implication of getting your bonus action shot off.
If I am mistaken, are there spells or magic items that could aid in dual wielding hand crossbows without needing the aid of an artificer?
Edit: I asked a friend and they brought up general rules vs specific rules. Ammo rule is a generic one, but specific rules tend to overrule it; is this feat basically not specifying that you can forgo general rule by allowing you to attack with 'a one handed weapon' and then giving you that bonus action shot, directly implying both hands are full of 'a one handed weapon' and 'Hand Crossbow'? I really feel like the feat is trying to explain to you that you really can ignore the general ammo rule. Would love to hear more opinions.
Do the first and third benefits of Crossbow Expert turn a hand crossbow into a semiautomatic weapon?
The short answer is no.
The first benefit of the feat lets you ignore the loading property of the hand crossbow if you’re proficient with that weapon. The upshot is that you can fire it more than once if you have a feature like Extra Attack. You’re still limited, however, by the fact that the weapon has the ammunition property. The latter property requires you to have a bolt to fire from the hand crossbow, and the hand crossbow isn’t going to load itself (unless it’s magical or a gnomish invention). You need to load each bolt into the weapon, and doing so requires a hand.
To dig deeper into this point, take a look at the following sentence in the definition of the ammunition property: “Drawing the ammunition from a quiver, case, or other container is part of the attack.” The sentence tells us two important things. First, you’re assumed to be drawing—that is, extracting with your hand—the ammunition from a container. Second, the act of drawing the ammunition is included in the attack and therefore doesn’t require its own action and doesn’t use up your free interaction with an object on your turn.
What does that all mean for a hand crossbow? It means Crossbow Expert makes it possible to fire a hand crossbow more than once with a feature like Extra Attack, provided that you have enough ammunition and you have a hand free to load it for each shot.
Thank you, I was unaware of the Sage Advice Compendium. I would argue it is frustrating to see the feat describe an attack using a 'one handed weapon' making it sound like it could be anything but the Hand Crossbow you are going to use your bonus action on, because that is what led me to the conclusion I had. If they worded that one handed weapon as also being said Hand Crossbow, I would've connected the dots more easily. I genuinely feel a little misled by the wording as it reads like I can stab with a sword and then shoot the guy right after.
That said, is there a magic item that would aid with the ability to dual wield Hand Crossbows anyway? Still with said feat of course, I am basically wondering if the ammunition property can somehow be lifted; I am sure I am not alone in this curiosity considering how often questions arise about dual wielding Hand Crossbows.
You can use a weapon that has the ammunition property to make a ranged attack only if you have ammunition to fire from the weapon.
The Artificer Infusion: Repeating Shot can help achieve what you want. If the weapon lacks ammunition, it produces its own, automatically creating one piece of magic ammunition when the wielder makes a ranged attack with it. The ammunition created by the weapon vanishes the instant after it hits or misses a target.
With 2014 Crossboe Expert, you can take the Attack action and attack with a Shortsword, sheat it with your free item interaction and then use a bonus action to attack with a hand crossbow you are holding.
Would sacrificing two attunement slots to dual wield Starshot Crossbow work? Or are there rules against wearing two items of the same name? It says it can be any crossbow (so I assume Hand Crossbow as well). Otherwise I also have questions regarding items such as Glimmering Moonbow, which simply states it can be any bow. Does any bow also include all the crossbow variants or not?
It's a huge ask to sacrifice two attunement slots just to fulfil a dual wielding Hand Crossbow fantasy, but I think that this would actually work RAW if you can't get the artificer involved..?
Would sacrificing two attunement slots to dual wield Starshot Crossbow work? Or are there rules against wearing two items of the same name? It says it can be any crossbow (so I assume Hand Crossbow as well). Otherwise I also have questions regarding items such as Glimmering Moonbow, which simply states it can be any bow. Does any bow also include all the crossbow variants or not?
It's a huge ask to sacrifice two attunement slots just to fulfil a dual wielding Hand Crossbow fantasy, but I think that this would actually work RAW if you can't get the artificer involved..?
The general rules on attunement say that you can't attune to more than one copy of the same item at the same time. That said, for something like this, some DMs might allow it in practice.
I know you said that you're playing under 2014 rules, but I do think it's worth pointing out that the new 2024 Artificer rules introduced the Repeating Shot weapon as a generic magic item that can be found or crafted without being a special Artificer ability. Your DM might allow this version of it to exist even when playing with 2014 rules.
I feared as much in regards to 'any bow' not transferring to crossbows - I held onto the hope it was possible due to the lack of magical crossbows in general (I think Starshot is the only one I found). In other words, if I want to make this work without invoking the rule of cool (I would argue asking for a 2024 thing would be included in this), it is simply not possible. Thank you for thinking along though! I'm just a little bummed I cannot make it work without having to ask a DM for an exception.
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My question is if a character has crossbow expert feat can the person shoot two hand crossbows during the same turn. Here is what the rules say.
Crossbow Expert
Thanks to extensive practice with the crossbow, you gain the following benefits:
The consensus is: maybe.
The issue lies with a hand crossbow having the ammunition property, which requires your other hand to draw and load the ammo.
Some argue you can load the crossbow beforehand and get 1 1-handed attack before having to reload. It is up to DM.
I'd argue yes, but only if you had loaded them prior to combat, and then only on the first turn. After that, the ammunition property would require a free hand to load one or the other, so you would have to stow one of them to load the other.
An artificer's Repeating Shot infusion can bypass this though, as it loads ammunition on its own (overriding the general ammunition rule; there was a very long thread on this a few weeks back that got quite heated, but thats where I land on it)
Yea - only if you preload them before combat. Once fired they would need a free hand to reload because - as the others have pointed out - the Ammunition property.
The other thing to point out - using two hand-crossbows wouldn't net you any more attacks than just using one would. It's still only 1 extra bonus action attack over your normal Attack action attacks in both cases. The only benefit is the 'cool' factor of wielding two at a time.
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Technically, yes, as long as they were both already loaded. But you would only be able to do it once per combat since you would need a free hand to reload either of them. It’s far more practical to simply shoot the same hand crossbow twice per turn instead. Shooting it once meets the criterial of “using the Attack action [to] attack on with a one-handed weapon,” so you can shoot the same crossbow again as your bonus action, and only using one hand crossbow leaves your other hand free for reloading.
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Was just checking out your magical items and they are really cool! Appreciate sharing!
I’m glad you like them.
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Thri-keen is the answer to this question :D
Dual-wield hand crossbows, hold a shield and still have a free hand to reload those crossbows
Crossbow Expert can already multiattack while wielding a single hand crossbow so the second one doesn't bring much to the table.
I think he was referring to using a shield and hand-crossbows at the same time. Thri-kreen have an extra pair of arms that could be used to supply the free hand for reloading the hand crossbows. Most creatures couldn't do that - it gets around the ammunition feature. You still need the Xbow expert feat to get around the loading feature. (Though as you mention, the Xbow expert feat works fine with a single hand crossbow - the only reason to have two is for style points).
The other way to do it is an artificer with the repeating shot infusion who should be able to use a shield and a hand crossbow at the same time.
Why do the comments argue that they need to be pre-loaded? I know that ammunition rules say that a free hand is required, but does Crossbow Expert RAW already describe a situation that proves a free hand is not necessary?
The third line (and I'm also still referring to 2014):
This implies that you could be wielding for example a Shortsword and a Hand Crossbow. Does this not already imply both hands are full of weapons? And it still allows you to use a bonus action to shoot, no hands available, after you stabbed with your sword per the attack action. Why can the first weapon then not also be another Hand Crossbow as they are both one handed weapons?
I really get confused by everyone's chatter about free hands on the ammunition rule (seen multiple threads and this one seems most accurate to respond to), because the third line on Crossbow Expert already implies you get a bonus action shot with your Hand Crossbow while your hands are already full. It does not mention needing to consume your one item interaction either. Please help me out here, am I somehow misunderstanding things? I genuinely do not see the problem based off of that third line in Crossbow Expert, it truly reads like you are already forgoing that ammo rule by the very implication of getting your bonus action shot off.
If I am mistaken, are there spells or magic items that could aid in dual wielding hand crossbows without needing the aid of an artificer?
Edit: I asked a friend and they brought up general rules vs specific rules. Ammo rule is a generic one, but specific rules tend to overrule it; is this feat basically not specifying that you can forgo general rule by allowing you to attack with 'a one handed weapon' and then giving you that bonus action shot, directly implying both hands are full of 'a one handed weapon' and 'Hand Crossbow'? I really feel like the feat is trying to explain to you that you really can ignore the general ammo rule. Would love to hear more opinions.
2014 Crossbow Expert doesn't say you can load a piece of ammunition into it even if you lack a free hand.
more explanation on the subject can be found in this Sage Advice Compendium
Thank you, I was unaware of the Sage Advice Compendium. I would argue it is frustrating to see the feat describe an attack using a 'one handed weapon' making it sound like it could be anything but the Hand Crossbow you are going to use your bonus action on, because that is what led me to the conclusion I had. If they worded that one handed weapon as also being said Hand Crossbow, I would've connected the dots more easily. I genuinely feel a little misled by the wording as it reads like I can stab with a sword and then shoot the guy right after.
That said, is there a magic item that would aid with the ability to dual wield Hand Crossbows anyway? Still with said feat of course, I am basically wondering if the ammunition property can somehow be lifted; I am sure I am not alone in this curiosity considering how often questions arise about dual wielding Hand Crossbows.
You can use a weapon that has the ammunition property to make a ranged attack only if you have ammunition to fire from the weapon.
The Artificer Infusion: Repeating Shot can help achieve what you want. If the weapon lacks ammunition, it produces its own, automatically creating one piece of magic ammunition when the wielder makes a ranged attack with it. The ammunition created by the weapon vanishes the instant after it hits or misses a target.
With 2014 Crossboe Expert, you can take the Attack action and attack with a Shortsword, sheat it with your free item interaction and then use a bonus action to attack with a hand crossbow you are holding.
I've been looking into magical items all day.
Would sacrificing two attunement slots to dual wield Starshot Crossbow work? Or are there rules against wearing two items of the same name? It says it can be any crossbow (so I assume Hand Crossbow as well). Otherwise I also have questions regarding items such as Glimmering Moonbow, which simply states it can be any bow. Does any bow also include all the crossbow variants or not?
It's a huge ask to sacrifice two attunement slots just to fulfil a dual wielding Hand Crossbow fantasy, but I think that this would actually work RAW if you can't get the artificer involved..?
Crossbow are not generally considered a type of bow in this sense. Starshot Crossbow can be a hand crossbow, but Glimmering Moonbow can't.
The general rules on attunement say that you can't attune to more than one copy of the same item at the same time. That said, for something like this, some DMs might allow it in practice.
I know you said that you're playing under 2014 rules, but I do think it's worth pointing out that the new 2024 Artificer rules introduced the Repeating Shot weapon as a generic magic item that can be found or crafted without being a special Artificer ability. Your DM might allow this version of it to exist even when playing with 2014 rules.
pronouns: he/she/they
I feared as much in regards to 'any bow' not transferring to crossbows - I held onto the hope it was possible due to the lack of magical crossbows in general (I think Starshot is the only one I found). In other words, if I want to make this work without invoking the rule of cool (I would argue asking for a 2024 thing would be included in this), it is simply not possible. Thank you for thinking along though! I'm just a little bummed I cannot make it work without having to ask a DM for an exception.